OK, let's trade Schaub for Lavar Arrington.

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The_Incomparable
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OK, let's trade Schaub for Lavar Arrington.

Postby The_Incomparable » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:23 am

The guy is a beast, and while he may not fix all our problems, he could definitely allow us to move Brooking back into the middle. While I don't think Brook should be there, he is tons better than any rookie....especially an undrafted free agent rookie MLB.
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Postby Pudge » Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:06 am

Arrington is the prototype linebacker that Mora and Donatell like playing the Buck position that Demorrio plays: A big strong, quick player that is very good rushing the passer off the edge.
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Postby The_Incomparable » Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:20 am

Then we could move DeMo to Weak where he belong & bring Brooking back to the middle this year. It would give us a great cover/blitz linebacker and pickup for the loss of Hartwell. It could even help the line out in situations, like New England, where they couldn't generate a big time pass rush...although Coleman dropped Brady a half dozen times alone...lol
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Vick

Postby MarylandFalcon1 » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:34 am

Uh, is anyone else out there concerned that Vick is becoming an injury prone player. Arrington also has that tag. I would much rather have a good backup QB than Kitner/Johnson and a guy like Arrington who would most likely be in street clothes beside Vick anyway.

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Postby jagstang76 » Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:24 am

There is no way they are going to trade Schaub during the season. Arrington is a great player, but I doubt we even have the cap room to accomidate him. We need Schaub to be able to finish the season on a positive note because Vick is going to take his lumps occasionally. Every starting QB does! Now, I might consider moving Schaub AFTER the season because we could get a nice return on him. But that would mean we would have to find a new backup for Vick, and while that might be possible, I'm not sure how we'd compete if Vick gets banged up again.

If we were to trade Schaub AFTER the season, we probably could get a 1st round pick for him (since we got that offer this past offseason and many teams are desparate for a solid QB). With that pick, we could do some serious work upgrading areas of need. I'd love to see us get a DB like Williams, Bing, or Allen. Also, I think we could find a good DL or OT. I'd like to get either J Scott from TEX or Mahalona from TEN. If by some miracle Maroney or D Williams fall to us, we should definitely grab them. Then we could draft someone like Stanton from MICH ST to replace Schaub.

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Postby GSUTeke » Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:05 am

we don't have the cap room. and unfortunately we won't have it next year either. we've got Vick and Dunn's contracts hitting us.

anyone think we cut Dunn after a 1500 yd season? i think it will be interesting.

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Postby AngryJohnny51 » Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:13 am

jagstang76 wrote:If we were to trade Schaub AFTER the season, we probably could get a 1st round pick for him (since we got that offer this past offseason and many teams are desparate for a solid QB).


We did?!!?? Do you have a link or was that rumor? I hadn't heard anything like that. If true, McKay should have his head examined if we didn't take that deal.

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Postby dirtybirdnw » Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:20 am

We had the same discussions about Doug Johnson netting a first rounder and we were all wrong. Lets not go bonkers on Schuab. The Skins wouldn't deal for Schuab in their right minds especially after drafting one in the first round.

More to the point Arrington is NOT a team player. He's sitting primarily because he doesn't buy into Gibbs and DC. He won't be a team player here either. I DO NOT WANT Arrington even if he was free. Arrington is the Terrell Owens of the defense.
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Postby The_Incomparable » Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:32 am

jagstang76 wrote:There is no way they are going to trade Schaub during the season. Arrington is a great player, but I doubt we even have the cap room to accomidate him. We need Schaub to be able to finish the season on a positive note because Vick is going to take his lumps occasionally. Every starting QB does! Now, I might consider moving Schaub AFTER the season because we could get a nice return on him. But that would mean we would have to find a new backup for Vick, and while that might be possible, I'm not sure how we'd compete if Vick gets banged up again.

If we were to trade Schaub AFTER the season, we probably could get a 1st round pick for him (since we got that offer this past offseason and many teams are desparate for a solid QB). With that pick, we could do some serious work upgrading areas of need. I'd love to see us get a DB like Williams, Bing, or Allen. Also, I think we could find a good DL or OT. I'd like to get either J Scott from TEX or Mahalona from TEN. If by some miracle Maroney or D Williams fall to us, we should definitely grab them. Then we could draft someone like Stanton from MICH ST to replace Schaub.


Great post. I honestly am not too interested in the corners in this year's draft. Williams & Allan both have good size (6'2" inches for both), but I am not sold on them being any better in coverage than Brian Scott was coming out of college. I would much rather see us pickup Mahelona or Scott as we need some size in the middle of our D-line. I highly doubt Maroney or Williams will still be there when our pick comes around.

Arrington is a natural linebacker & needs the ability to roam free. I honestly think a big part of his problem is the good ole boy network Gibbs had installed up there is not flexible at all. The odd thing is Spurrier never had a problem with Arrington, yet now he is somehow a problematic player or locker room cancer. I don't find this to be true and honestly hate to see this smear campaign working for the Gibbs staff. The simple fact is Arrington is a superstar linebacker and should be on the field, thus you can understand his frustration with his current situation. Everyone makes out like the Skins all of the sudden have this great defense the last couple of years, although Arrington was hurt, but the Skins D has been good since around the turn of the century.

Now let me ask you all one thing, could you imagine Kerney & Arrington coming off the end together? 8-)
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Postby Steve-O » Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:49 pm

Arrington hates playing with his hand on the ground...the Skins tried converting him to end a while back and he cried like a little girl about it...

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Postby The_Incomparable » Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:01 pm

Steve-O wrote:Arrington hates playing with his hand on the ground...the Skins tried converting him to end a while back and he cried like a little girl about it...


I don't blame him, he isn't a DE. They tried to do the same thing with Urlacher in Chicago for awhile, but you're wasting talent when you do something like that. If a player cannot phsyically handle his position, a la Brian Scott, then yes move them by all means. But don't take a Pro Bowl linebacker and try to change him into a DE, that's just stupid and only rarely works...especially if the guy doesn't want to put on the necessary 40-50lbs you would need to play the line.
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Postby Steve-O » Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:39 pm

Arrington is about the right size for a RE...he'd only have to put on maybe 10 lbs...what Freeny is 260? Arrinton is 250 right? Arrinton just doesn't like having to take on blocks...he'd rather freelance and chase the ball...I wouldn't try to change his position though...he's a good lb...leave him there...

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Postby The_Incomparable » Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:05 pm

Freeney is not a good example. If the Colts actually played a team with a good left tackle he would get eaten alive in the run game...320+lb LT > 260lb DE, just look at what happened when Brady Smith was out of the games against Seattle, KC, Buffalo, etc. And I do agree that I would rather have him running around pursuing than holding up the point of attack...the onlye LB's I would ask to do that are the Willie McGinnests of the world.
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Postby Steve-O » Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:18 pm

have you seen what Freeny did to a perinnial (sp?) Pro-Bowler named Jonathan Ogden? He made Ogden his hand maid last year and again this year....Freeny is a beast!!!
Smith did pretty good against a big pro bowler named Orlando Pace twice last year if I remeber correctly....size at de isn't everything...it's more about explosion, anticipation and agility...

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Postby The_Incomparable » Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:48 am

That was poor play-calling that left Ogden exposed in a manner reminiscent of Michael Irvin against some of the tiny corners you'd see around the league back in the 90's, only in an opposite matchup of styles. Freeney was running around Ogden to blow up slow developing plays. You just can't allow a guy with his speed to go one on one on the outside with a 350+lb tackle without chipping him or something. It's like asking a lineman to cover a wide receiver. I have a good deal of respect for Freeney & what he can do, but the game you are referring to was just another example of how much some coaches' egos, and reliance upon their stars' abilities, can really hurt their team.

Smith is a quality pass rusher and stout against the run, but he hardly falls under that 250-260lb DE area I was talking about.
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Postby Pudge » Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:34 am

Freeney is a monster, and assuming nothing happens to him injury-wise, I truly believe he is going to be a HOF defensive end and will be remember as one of the greats. I said it before on this board somewhere, but his spin move is one of the GREATEST pass rush moves of ALL-TIME. I truly believe 10 years from now Freeney is going to be mentioned with guys like Deacon Jones, Reggie White, Bruce Smith, etc.

Now that's not to say Freeney is anywhere close to being a complete DE. He's a pass rusher that has to line up in space and use his speed and quickness. He's not a guy that is going to use great hand technique to outmaneuver a OT. He can't handle very well at the point of attack. But if we're talking about pure pass rushing, Freeney may soon rank as the greatest "speed" pass rusher of all-time.

But this thread starting about Arrington and Schaub. I would like to point out a few things:

1. I too would not advocate a trade for Arrington, for 2 main reasons:
a) he's injury prone
b) he's very expensive

Especially when you consider just a year ago he got that huge extension. And the truth of the matter is Arrington really hasn't been the awe-inspiring linebacker for a few years now.

Also there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY a team would give up a #1 for Matt Schaub. Just push it from your heads right now. A team using a #1 on a backup QB that himself was not a Top 20 pick is long gone, and died with Rob Johnson. It won't happen again. Teams aren't that desperate for "veteran" QBs. Logic would state it would be a smarter investment to use a #1 on a more proven commodity like Schaub than someone like J.P. Losman. But the fact of the matter is Matt Schaub does not have FIRST ROUND POTENTIAL. And that's the key. He's proven recently that his arm strength is better than most people thought, and he is athletic enough to escape the pocket, but he's no Alex Smith. And basically, teams are looking to use #1s on guys with Smith's potential. Schaub can become a quality starter, but he's not going to be viewed as a future Pro Bowler.

The truth of the matter is that the QB market is not as strong as you think. If you look around the league, there may be a dozen or so teams that are looking for a young starter to develop for the future, but not too many of them are in situations where Schaub looks like a good fit.

Arizona and Denver could both be looking for starters in the near future, but both have young backups (McCown and Van Pelt) that offer more arm strength and just as much mobility if not more than Schaub. So Schaub doesn't bring anything more to the table.

A lot of other teams like Baltimore, Cleveland, Chicago all have a good shot at getting someone like Leinart this upcoming April. Miami won't touch another QB unless it's a high caliber guy like Leinart.

Honestly, I see only Detroit, Kansas City, and the Jets as potential destinations for Schaub. The Lions run a very similar offense. But I don't think Mooch is going to take Schaub over both Harrington and Garcia. Schaub is similar to both Trent Green and Pennington, so those could work. But how much would either team give up for him?

I see a 3rd round pick, exactly what Schaub is worth. If we're lucky, we'd be able to get an additional late round pick (6th or 7th?), but that's about all. Schaub is 0-2 as a starter, lost another gam that he practically started, and his lone "save" was in a game which the Falcons had already built a substantial lead. He doesn't have the body of work that would merit a very high draft pick. In fact, he'd probably need to pull out a win or two down the stretch for this team in order to merit a 3rd round pick.

Schaub isn't the only promising young QB out there. What about Mike McMahon, David Garrard, Dave Ragone, Seneca Wallace, and Drew Henson? Not to mention the potential rookies next April? Drew Brees, Tim Rattay, Kitna, Kurt Warner, Jeff Garcia are veterans that will probably be acquirable this off-season. Teams definitely have options, and Matt Schaub is probably not very highly ranked for many teams.

And at this point, this team would be stupid to trade Schaub until they got a backup as good or better.
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Postby The_Incomparable » Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:37 am

Yeah I wasn'r being super serious about the Arrington for Schaub thing. The Skins would never take that deal and I don't know that our front office would take him in to begin with.

Anyhow, I wouldn't trade Schaub for anything other than a first round draft pick or a player that could really help us...like if we traded him for Mike Williams in Detriot I would probably go for that.
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Postby AngryJohnny51 » Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:08 am

Pudge wrote:Also there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY a team would give up a #1 for Matt Schaub.


So Jagstang was making up the first round offer last off season?

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Postby Steve-O » Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:18 pm

back to the Freeny thing....I saw Ogden get both hands on Freeny and then Freeny just spun away from him and blew by him....Freeny is a beast son!....I agree with Pudge that he will one day be a HOF if he continues like this and his spin move is just plain awe inspiring (I know, I know, that's a little melodramatic)....

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Postby BillyC » Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:01 pm

What ever you guys are smoking, pass that sh!t this way. :lol:

Your backup QB has one good game and you guys can get a first round pick for him? WOW!!

This ain't fantasy football and there's no way in hell of that happening. 8-)

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Postby Steve-O » Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:03 pm

I don't think you are gonna find to many people on here that think we could get a first rounder for him....

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Postby dirtybirdnw » Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:37 pm

Unless the media keeps hyping him like rabid dogs.
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Postby The_Incomparable » Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:08 pm

Which ESPN just did again!!! lol This is going to be great when we trade him for Arrington, but keep the contracts...lol...I know, I know, but a guy can dream can't he?
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Postby AngryJohnny51 » Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:51 pm

The_Incomparable wrote:Which ESPN just did again!!! lol This is going to be great when we trade him for Arrington, but keep the contracts...lol...I know, I know, but a guy can dream can't he?



When you say him, I hope you don't mean Schaub. In today's NFL, you need 2 good quarterbacks on your squad, period. Vick has proven that he can't play a full year and that is fine, but you better have someone who can step in and score points like a Schaub. We alrteady know what the Kittner's and Johnson's of the world do for us.... high draft picks!!!!!


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