So what now?

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Pudge
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So what now?

Postby Pudge » Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:44 am

There seems to be a consensus on what are the areas and concerns of the roster heading forward, but just wanted to get your guys insight...

Davewaz
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Re: So what now?

Postby Davewaz » Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:49 pm

meh we will never be good with Shanahan as our OC so everything else is pretty much pointless till his time runs it's course.

RobertAP
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Re: So what now?

Postby RobertAP » Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:34 pm

Need a center. This is priority #1, but it would be stupid to use a 1st round pick here.
Might or might not need a guard. Perhaps Asamoah will be back, or Person will shift over to Guard and surprise us.
Need a TE that can stretch the seam. Tamme has been a good stop-gap, and Toilolo is mostly worthless, but it sure would be nice to have someone at this spot that can make a difference.
Need another WR that can threaten deep. Jones is our only real deep threat, and has been for some time.

Need to upgrade our linebacking squad, specifically their coverage ability. If we're going to stick with the 4 man rush format, then our LB squad needs to be able to cover.
Need a safety.
Need another pass rusher to put opposite of Beasley.


I'm going to let Ryan, Blank, and Shanahan work out if anyone is leaving. I'm certain that if Ryan doesn't think that he can have success with Shanahan, that Shanahan will be gone.


I am hopeful, that based on what Quinn had to say at his press conference, that the lines will be the focus this offseason.

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Pudge
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Re: So what now?

Postby Pudge » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:39 pm

Ben Roethlisberger didn't think he could have success with Todd Haley...

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The Mattural
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Re: So what now?

Postby The Mattural » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:55 am

They have to address the interior of the offensive line. Add another pass rusher and upgrade the LB position. I would love if they cut Reed and went after Bruce Irvin but I doubt they make it happen so that people will have more ammo on why TD should be fired (even though it will not happen apparently no matter how many times he whiffs in the draft or FA.). They need to add speed at WR no more "crafty route runners". Dont understand why TD never replaced Gonzo, Matt was clearly at his best when he had that guy that could win of the LOS since he is a dink and dunker with the occasional shot throw. Really wish they would have drafted Maxx Williams instead of Jaylen Collins but that doesn't matter going forward. The Falcons will need a solid offseason because their schedule is treacherous next year.

AngryJohnny51
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Re: So what now?

Postby AngryJohnny51 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:12 am

Seeing how we are keeping Shanahan, we can expect to continue scoring between 17-21 points a game and be horrible in the red zone. So that being said, we are going to have to focus on the defensive side of the ball and to try and keep other teams below 21 a game. Not having a pass rush hurts. We have decent corners but they can only cover so long....sacks also bring fumbles, momentum shifts, and can give opposing quarterbacks "happy feet". All which are positives.

On offensive, we do need a center. Not just a stop gap either, someone we can count on for 10 or so years. I know, easier said than done. Tamme did okay at TE, but we are going to need someone opposite of Julio. Sorry White fans (and I am one) he pretty much done whether he is back or not.

dwmyers
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Re: So what now?

Postby dwmyers » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:40 am

I got on first-pick.com and looked as well at Draftek. Draftek's so-called Atlanta needs are too broad to be useful, IMO.

first-pick claims major needs are TE, DE, and FS.

I tend to think the #1 need is a center, with defensive pass rushers second and olb third. Deal with C is that (if CBS sports is to be believed) the best C ranks #57 overall, the next two at #67 and #83. So, it's reasonable to think that a late second rounder can net a good C, and if you want to go bargain shopping, wait until mid third.

After center on offense would be a good #2 or #3 WR (coequal with a TE that is a downfield threat), then maybe another interior lineman. I tend to think of those as rank 4 needs.

I've mostly been exploring trade downs, to get a second #2. Pretty easy to get a DE or OLB in round 1, a TE/WR in mid round 2, and then a C late round 2. Dropping to #25 in the first round would, using the old 1990s trade value chart, net a #1 and #2 at equal value.

Note that who you get in first-pick is pretty flawed. Ordinary drafters have a tendency to load the draft with 6-7 trade downs, a dozen or more picks, with a fistful of "true" first rounders, and second round talents down into the fifth round.

David.

Matt
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Re: So what now?

Postby Matt » Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:01 am

I don't think Shanahan is our biggest issue. I'd like to give him another year and allow him to acquire more system players before I point the finger at him. I haven't watched nearly as much college football as I have in the past, so the draft is a little foggy for me. I'm fine with going BPA in the first round as long as it's addressing one of our major holes (LB, DE/DT, C, WR, etc.)

I'd be very satisfied if we walked away with Bruce Irvin and Alex Mack in the free agency though.

An ideal situation would be to sign Irvin and Mack, and in the draft we could go with Treadwell, WR in the first and Ragland, LB in the second (Hopefully, Ragland will drop that far. It's possible with the concerns regarding his pass coverage ability).

Davewaz
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Re: So what now?

Postby Davewaz » Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:38 pm

Once again, it's unbelievable that Kyle Shanahan is an offensive coordinator in this league. If his last name wasn't that of another coaches his consistly horrible results would never be rewarded. Below I have put the PPG for both Shanahan and the Falcons per season.

2008 Houston 16th Falcons 10th
2009 Houston 10th Falcons 13th
2010 Washington 25th Falcons 6th
2011 Washington 26th Falcons 10th
2012 Washington 6th Falcons 7th
2013 Washington 23rd Falcons 20th
2014 Clevleand 27th Falcons 12th
2015 Falcons 21st

So in 8 seasons Shanahan's offenses have averaged a pathetic 19.5 place in the nfl points per game

The Falcons offense since 2008, never ranked as low as they did this year in points per game. That's right he was worse this year than Mularky and Koetter ever were statistically, even in year's when Julio and Ryan were hurt the offense scored more.

In 8 seasons Shanahan has only been a part of 2 teams with winning records.
Shanahan's teams have only made the playoffs once in 8 years, and they lost the first game.

If you think we will ever get near a super bowl with this consistent loser running our offense you are delusional.

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Pudge
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Re: So what now?

Postby Pudge » Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:14 pm

Again, you act like Shanahan has been working with superstar offenses. While the Falcons had Matt Ryan, Michael Turner, Roddy White, Tony Gonzalez, Julio Jones, all top 10 players during those years, Shanahan had Andre Johnson, and ... *crickets*

Look, we can have a real conversation about whether Shanahan's scheme is designed to maximize the potential of a quarterback with Ryan's abilities versus more geared towards maximizing the ability of a lesser QB like Brian Hoyer, Matt Schaub, Rex Grossman, or RG3 (as it arguably did).

But to sit here and act like the only reason why these other teams were bad offensively was because of Shanahan's inability to make Steve Slaton (who is out of hte league), Alfred Morris (who has since been benched), an old and busted Donovan McNabb (who also played under Bill Musgrave in Minnesota and was equally terrible), John Beck (who is out of hte leauge), Isaiah Crowell (who has since been benched by Browns), Terrance West (who has since been cut by the Browns), among many other players that since Shanahan left them have become backups, scrubs and unemployed, is because he's a bad offensive coordinator.

I don't want to be in a position where I'm defending Shanahan vehemently, but many of the arguments against him are ridiculous.

Davewaz
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Re: So what now?

Postby Davewaz » Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:10 pm

I like how you are saying his actual stats and his actual results are a ridiculous point in a discussion :lol: :lol: :lol: He's been consistently below average with all different sets of players. If I recall your preseason defense of this bum is he just needed a good QB like Matt Ryan... now it's time for a new excuse... Sure if he had Tom Brady, Julio Jones, AJ Green, Gronk ,AP and the Dallas O-line he'd do better... but allot of coaches have done a heck of allot more with less in the same period of time he's been in the league. You need to take off your fan glasses and look at the stats, this guy sucks and will continue to suck, and we will never be a serious contender til we get someone competent in his place.

I'm hoping in the meantime we draft defense and build a strong unit for the future, then we fire Shanahan after the offense sucks again next year, and we can maybe get someone competent to fix the mess he has created.

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Re: So what now?

Postby Pudge » Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:11 pm

The problem is Waz, you make comparisons between the Falcons offense and his offense as if they're a 1 to 1 comparison. They're not.

Like I said, I don't want to be on this pro-Shanahan side of the fence. But if you're going to make good comparisons, compare the 2014 offense to the 2015 offense, where you'll get a much closer to 1 to 1 comparison than trying to compare Shanahan's 2010 offense to the Falcons 2010 offense.

Points Per Game: 2014 - 23.8; 2015 - 21.2 -10.9%
Offensive Touchdowns Per Game: 2014 - 2.4; 2015 - 2.1 -12.5%
Red Zone Scoring Percentage: 2014 - 61.4%; 2015 - 54.7% -10.9%
Yards Per Game: 2014 - 378.2; 2015 - 374.2 -1.1%
First Downs Per Game: 2014 - 20.6; 2015 - 22.4 +8.7%
Time of POssesssion: 2014 - 29:22; 2015 - 32:11 +9.6%
Third Down Conversions: 2014 - 44.3%; 2015 - 47.1% +6.3%
Rush Attemps Per Game: 2014 - 23.2; 2015 - 26.3 +13.4%
Rushing Yards Per Game: 2014 - 93.6; 2015 - 100.4 +7.3%
Rushing 1st Downs Per Game: 2014 - 4.7; 2015 - 5.9 +25.5%
Rushing Yards Per Carry: 2014 - 4.0; 2015 - 3.8 -5.0%
Pass Attempts Per Game: 2014 - 39.5; 2015 - 38.8 -1.8%
Completions Per Game: 2014 - 26.1; 2015 - 25.6 -2.3%
Completion Percentage: 2014 - 66.1%; 2015 - 66.0% -0.2%
Passing Yards Per Game: 2014 - 284.6; 2015 - 273.9 -3.8%
Passing Yards Per Attempt: 2014 - 7.2; 2015 - 7.1 -1.4%
Yards Per Completion: 2014 - 10.9; 2015 - 10.7 -1.8%
Sacks Per Attempt: 2014 - 4.7%; 2015 - 4.9% -4.3%
Pass 1st Downs Per Game: 2014 - 14.6; 2015 - 14.4 -1.4%
Passing Play Percentage: 2014 - 64.1; 2015 - 60.8% +5.1%
Interceptions Thrown Per Game: 2014 - 0.9; 2015 - 1.1 -22.2%
Fumbles Per Game: 2014 - 1.0; 2015 - 1.6 -60.0%
Fumbles Lost Per Game: 2014 - 0.5; 2015 - 0.8 -60.0%
Giveaways Per Game: 2014 - 1.4; 2015 - 1.9 -35.7%
20+ Pass Plays Per Game: 2014 - 3.8; 2015 - 3.1 -18.4%
20+ Run Plays Per Game: 2014 - 0.4; 2015 - 0.5 +25.0%

Note the differences in percentages from 2014 to 2015. You see improvement in the run game, with this offense being a bit more conservative (due to TOP) and less explosive in the passing game (which can be partially explained by how shitty a WR Roddy White became)

But the passing game declined only slightly, which probably wouldn't have happened if Jones and Hankerson had stayed healthy all year. The running game obviously improved.

The main difference between Shanahan's offense and Koetter's was the turnovers and lack of big plays, which are the #1 and #2 reasons why this year's offense didn't score as many points as last year's.

If the Falcons can become more explosive and do a better job protecting the football, then there's reason to hope that this offense will revert back to being decent again. Now of course, even if that happens in 2016, people will simply move the goalposts and complain about why the offense is only the 15th best offense in the league as opposed to the 9th best. :roll:

RobertAP
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Re: So what now?

Postby RobertAP » Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:45 pm

Center should be acquired in free agency. This year's draft doesn't have any standout centers. If you draft one, you're probably looking at a project. We don't need a project at center, we had two of them this year. We need an NFL caliber center.

I'm guessing that we'll go DE or OLB with our 1st pick. After that, I have no clue.

AngryJohnny51
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Re: So what now?

Postby AngryJohnny51 » Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:53 am

Shanahan - 4 teams in 7 years. Teams just do not let "talented" young OC's walk out the door. He's been escorted out doors for a reason.

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Pudge
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Re: So what now?

Postby Pudge » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:38 am

This isn't like players, coaches change jobs because they constantly is job turnover. He left Houston because he took the job in Washington with his dad. He left Washington because his dad got fired. He left Cleveland because they were a clusterf**k.

Again, Shanahan is by no means God's gift to play-callers. But you're really reaching on this one.

BTW, Dan Quinn has been with 4 different teams in 8 years, so clearly he's not good at his job either riiiight?

backnblack
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Re: So what now?

Postby backnblack » Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:14 am

Is Quinn good at his job?

I'd say LB in priority #1. We've been gearing the team towards offense for 30 years. Why not try something new? The Broncos just knocked off the heir apparent to the SB with a greatly diminished Peyton Manning and the league's #1 D. Our LB corps seems to be comprised of guys who would struggle to start on most teams.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/tom ... spartandhp

Andreas Illum
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Re: So what now?

Postby Andreas Illum » Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:02 pm

LB'er or any defensive playmaker must be the main priority. Playoffs showed that to win you need defense and we dont really have many starting NFL level linebackers.

We also need to aggressively puruse more passrushers, Beasley might develop, but we need more!

A center is necessary as well, of course.

backnblack
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Re: So what now?

Postby backnblack » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:13 pm

Andreas! Remember when Tom Petty sang, "You don't have to live like a refugee!" :lol:

I'd be on board with a largely D oriented draft and/or FA signing off season though interior OL, TE and a WR wouldn't hurt. But we've spent so many resources on O it seems over the years. Nobody on the Panthers, Broncos or Pats really jump out at you on their offenses. Gronk and Edleman are good but it seems Brady makes lots of guys good. How about "guys closest to the ball" on defense?

Andreas Illum
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Re: So what now?

Postby Andreas Illum » Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:26 pm

'guys close to the ball' on either side is always good with me.

Bring in the violent circus freaks :D


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