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 Post subject: Management and the off line problems
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:24 pm 
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I am really wondering if managment sees the things football fans see on the field.Sure,sure they get paid plenty to be experts but if this is true why can't they see the weaknesses that the fans do.Before we didn't know if it was Vick,the receviers or the off line.Now coming from the fans how bad the offensive line played do we still have a problem with it? It sure sounds that way.Every year management neglects drafting offensive linemen thinking oh maybe our current players will development,or give them another year they are learning a new system.It starts with the offensive line.If Vick doesn'y have time neither Vick or the receviers matter.

CAN WE PLEASE DRAFT SOME D%%$N offensive linemen for once to get better quality players? If we still have the same problems this year with the offensive line then I want half of the line replaced.Either bench some of the starters and give some of the bench guys a chance or draft some new blood.It is becoming apparent this group of offensive line has a whole can't get the job done.They don't have the talent to compete aganst the bigger,faster,stronger def linemen.I know it sounds good running the west coast having quick agile linemen like the old 49er teams but THEY HAD TALENT.It makes a difference and if we can't throw the ball I hope we scrape this crap offense to settle for one we we throw the ball deep first and short second not the other way around.I have a feeling will be running the ball just as much this year.If this offense doens't pass we need to kick KRAPP to the curb.It is bad enough the falcon's didn't get Chow who a guy like him doesn't come into the league often


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:16 pm 
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I've been saying for years that we have to upgrade the "O" line, but Reeves/Mora just don't listen to me. :)

I've been a Falcons fan long, long before Vick was even a twinkle in his old man's eye and this is the worst offensive line we've had in quite sometime. I will say this, the Falcons had many, many holes to fill the past few years and they are getting it done slowly. Rome wasn't built in a day and the Falcons are still building. Knapp got a undersized no names to over acheive before and they are trying that here. Will it work? If it doesn't improvbe this season, it will have to be addressed next summer or Vick will continue to take a beating.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:30 pm 
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Maybe we should get one of these for Vick...

http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/uti ... 011,00.jpg

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:11 pm 
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Quote:
Maybe we should get one of these for Vick...


hehe! :D


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 Post subject: That's funny Pudge!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:16 am 
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Ha ha :) Vick needs one of them on both sides of his helmet.Lets put a red light on top of his helmet like the police cars and when the ball is hiked the defense can find vick.Are offense line doesn't know how to block so it is feeding time for defenses.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:38 am 
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That's classic. :)

This last draft was pretty weak when it came to offensive lineman. I do believe next years draft looks much stronger. We have our receivers, our defensive tackles, linebackers, quarterback, runningback, tight end, and fullback. The Falcons need to draft one more stud corner and defensive end. I think we'll start to see offensive lineman get drafted in the higher rounds over the next few years.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:57 pm 
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dirtybirdnw wrote:
This last draft was pretty weak when it came to offensive lineman. I do believe next years draft looks much stronger.


Next year's class thus far seems to be pretty top heavy. That doesn't mean its a good or bad class, it just means that most scouts are seeing a lot of potential 1st round picks, and are making those statements based on a single player: UVA's D'Brickashaw Ferguson. Scouts are looking for 1 thing: a bookend LT. Alex Barron was not that, so therefore this year's OL class wasn't very good. They only make those statements based on who's at the top, not the depth of the class. I think this past year's class had good depth, making it a better class than people give credit for. We won't know until 3-5 years from now.

But I do think next year's class will be at the very least stronger at the top. The SR OT class looks promising.

I don't think our OL will be good until we get 1 bookend OT. Weiner is serviceable, but we need an upgrade at both positions if this line is going ot be considered more than average, but good.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:04 pm 
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I have talked to some of the people in the falcon's organization (I have a few connections) and they seem happy with the line. They are stressing the importance of playing together for a few years instead of bringing in new people. I personally disagree with that theory, I think the only good lineman we have is McClure. If the line doesn't pass protect better (we run block pretty well) I think we'll see some changes next year. I don't like spending a high pick on O-lineman myself. I think you can grow those players. The brass like the kid we drafted this year but we'll see how he turns out. I do agree that next years draft will be a lot better at the o-line than this year's but I don't see us taking any of the high ranked players at OT. I see us addressing CD and DE before that. At least we don't have to worry about LBs for a while. I really like the DE out of NC state (I think that's right). Some real big kid they are comparing to Julius Peppers. If we can get another pass rusher and another CB our D will be set.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:46 pm 
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I agree that we need to find some different players....that's not a point I'm disputing, I don't know that a rookie is going to be the answer though either...whose gonna be FA next year? We should look into findin Kevin (Turnstyle) Shaffer a replacement...we need to settle our other guard spot too...Forney isn't terrible and neither is Weiner, but neither of them are any where close to being considered great...


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:06 am 
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Yulin wrote:
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I think the only good lineman we have is McClure.


Heh, don't let Cap read that.

I'll agree that to a point, consistancy is what you need in the OLine to have a good group. You can't just keep changing folks up all the time and expect the line to perform.

But you also can't have hand-me-downs in your oline, and have that oline together for years and expect it to perform well. Your still going to get ... well, what we have now.


If we had two bookend tackles that could go one on one against the better DE's then I'd agree that McClure would be fine.

HOWEVER, since we don't, we really do need a center capable of 1 on 1 assignents on a DT. McClure doesn't do well in that situation (because he blocks high and gets bowled over). If he could or we had a behemoth of a center, then that would free up a guard to double team the Julius Peppers' and Simeon Rice's of the league...


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:26 am 
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As far as FAs go for next year, the OT class isn't too promising. The highlights are Jeff Backus and Mike Pearson, both of whom are capable pass protectors at LT, but offer little as run blockers. Kenyatta Walker and Tom Ashworth are also available, two other light, athletic OTs that Gibbs seems to prefer.

The OG class is a bit more promising with Steve Hutchinson, Benji Olson, and Vince Manuwai. Manuwai is a player that you should keep your eye on this year. He's one of the best guards I've ever seen in space and could be a real asset in our zone blocking scheme.

Tom Nalen is also a free agent next year, but he's on the downside of his career, although he would definitely bring experience.

I think when it comes to building your OL, you need to have balance. Adding top free agents or rookies can definitly help, but you're not going to do much by continually adding 6th and 7th rounders. You might strike gold occasionally with those guys, but for the most part you'll find most of those guys off your roster or out of the league by Year 3 or 4.

I think the Falcons have missed the boat in recent years on free agents. Last year, the team was in a position to get a Chad Clifton or Robert Gallery. Yes, it would have required us to give up something to do so (either money or a high draft pick), but I think both are elite OL.

I don't believe in overhauling a unit if it doesn't meet your needs. Continuity is more important along the OL than anywhere else. And I think a team that makes more than 1 or 2 changes in an off-season is liking to see it get worse before it gets better.

We don't need 5 superstars up front, but maybe 1 or 2 more upgrades and things should be fine. It's going to take time, but I'm already seeing improvement in the unit when compared to a few years ago. I have more confidence in our current line than I've had in any other since 1998. But I guess that's not saying much...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:54 am 
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The primary reason the Falcons have missed the boat on FA offensive lineman is because of Gibbs. He hates having those elite class players on his lines. He likes the scrub that has fought for everything in his life. I never really understood the logic but I have to imagine Gibbs has a lot of input for O-Line draft picks and FA signees.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:02 pm 
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dirtybirdnw wrote:
The primary reason the Falcons have missed the boat on FA offensive lineman is because of Gibbs. He hates having those elite class players on his lines. He likes the scrub that has fought for everything in his life. I never really understood the logic but I have to imagine Gibbs has a lot of input for O-Line draft picks and FA signees.




some of the bet olines are made up of scrubs
look at the pats line, the closest pick to being a high pick is matt Light and he was a 2nd rounder

playing the O line is about one thing: unity thats it nothing else nothing more the best olines dont function as 5 seperate linemen, but as one well oiled machine,
look at the probowl, there are suppose to be the 5 best linemen in each conference
yet, qbs still get pressure put on them, why???
they dont work shoots together in the burning sun of training camp, they dont work "nelly " or "mary" or otherwise known as the 7 man sled , together during two a days,
having 5 guys bust their ass day in day out together,
THATS what makes a good oline, draft status, or signing bonus makes no difference

building a good oline takes time, if you go in and change two new starters every year,
your oline is going to suck
and suck hard,

people talk about greenbay's oline, or Kc's oline, Greenbay has no first round pick on its line
the Cheifs do have two but they have been in the nfl for 12 years each,
but the reason they are so good is, the cheifs have returned ATLEASTE 4 of the same starters for the past 5 years
the packers had pretty much the same oline for the past 3-4 years
denver has had the same line for close to 3 years

infact of the top 5 lines in the nfl in terms of sacks allowed, there are TWO first round picks ( out of 20 starters) TWO, and save the chargers all have been together ATLEAST
3 years

just for reference we are returning 3 starters on the line from the 2002 season
Mcclure ( which I can hear cappy cringing already)
Weiner
and Forney

Shaffer is going into his 2nd year asa full time starter
and Leher (wh o is my pick to be starting center in 06)
is brand new, all of this in a totally brand new system which this is only the 2nd preaseason they have worked in it.


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