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 Post subject: Could Falcons trade up to No. 1 for Clowney? Texans say
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:46 pm 
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Could Falcons trade up to No. 1 for Clowney? Texans said to be open to it!!

Jeez I wake up today turn on the NFL network and all the talk is about The Falcons are ready to go all in for Clowney and The Texans are said to think they could get their franchise Qb at #6.

Their's 4 freaking guys on the NFL station saying the Falcons must get a pass rusher; and the Texans think they will have their Qb at 6. Why are we meeting with Clowney today.?? That
test is probably the same set of questions Thomas D. ask Ryan.

I don't like this gamble but their's starting to be too much smoke for me!! Here's a different read on it.


By Eric Edholm

Could Falcons trade up to No. 1 for Clowney? Texans said to be open to it

The Atlanta Falcons are no strangers to moving up in the draft. They've made bold moves up in the first round for Julio Jones and Desmond Trufant the past two seasons, and sliding up from the No. 6 pick to the top spot for Clowney would fit that same pattern.

The Falcons need pass-rush help, and even with talk of them transitioning to more 3-4 fronts under Mike Nolan, Clowney would be a great fit as a multiple-technique defender.

Would the Texans be making a mistake moving out of the top slot? They have to be certain that one of their preferred players will be available at that point, if that's what the deal involved. They'd be guaranteed to get one of the top six players in the draft, but what if their favorite 2-3 options are gone? Do they trade down again?

If they do stay at 6, the Texans' best bets could include taking either DE-OLB Khalil Mack, an offensive lineman such as Auburn's Greg Robinson or Texas A&M's Jake Matthews, or perhaps a quarterback such as UCF's Blake Bortles.

Hold those mock drafts for now. A trade could happen and blow them all up in short order.

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 Post subject: Re: Could Falcons trade up to No. 1 for Clowney? Texans say
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:13 pm 
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I have my reservations on Clowney. Too many have questioned his motor...even the ol' ball coach himself. But, if the Falcons do trade up to get him, he has to be an absolute beast from day one. Week in and week out.

If this happens, this will make or break the current front office. I know you guys already have your opinions, but if this happens and Clowney fails, expect a house cleaning. Clowney is an animal, extensions all around.


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 Post subject: Re: Could Falcons trade up to No. 1 for Clowney? Texans say
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:37 pm 
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If the Falcons give up two firsts and a second, or a first and two seconds to get Clowney, the end result will be failure. No position other than QB is worth those picks. Even if Clowney is an all-world DE, it won't make up for the other 2 positions on the field that are filled with scrubs.

If we do make the trade, that will be 4, "quality," players missing from this team in the past 3 years. It's very possible that all of those picks would be starters on this team given how crappy our depth is. Who knows who those 4 players would be? They might have been super stars, or they might have been busts. However, having good talent at 6 positions is way better than having super star talent at 2. Especially if the super star talent is only on the field for half of the plays.

Look at Detroit... They have two superstars and a bunch of scrubs. How are they doing these days? If that's the kind of team that you want to build, then by all means, trade the farm for Clowney. But don't be surprised when we are Detroit South.


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 Post subject: Re: Could Falcons trade up to No. 1 for Clowney? Texans say
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:00 pm 
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Motor isn't my chief concern with Clowney. When he's on the field, he plays hard.

My chief concern is how often he's going to see the field. Durability is my main concern. A few too many nagging injuries over the past year that give me a bit of pause. Similar to Julio in his time at Bama.

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 Post subject: Re: Could Falcons trade up to No. 1 for Clowney? Texans say
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:29 am 
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I don't want to do it because at #6 we'll still have some good people to choose. No rookie is going to tear up the league in year one IMO, and we don't need to be giving up anything.

I don't consider it giving up a first this year because we're getting a first. I don't want to be giving up any first's next year, maybe a 2nd but I think they'll want a lot more than we can or should give.

Theirs not been much speculation on what we'd have to give except our guesses.

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 Post subject: Re: Could Falcons trade up to No. 1 for Clowney? Texans say
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:38 pm 
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If we trade what I think we would have to for Clowney TD is writing his ticket out of town. Clowney plays hard? Pudge...have you watched this guy much? IMHO, this would be an incredibly stupid and short sighted move. Then again, I am not sure I even want him at 6.

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 Post subject: Re: Could Falcons trade up to No. 1 for Clowney? Texans say
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:25 pm 
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backnblack wrote:
If we trade what I think we would have to for Clowney TD is writing his ticket out of town. Clowney plays hard? Pudge...have you watched this guy much? IMHO, this would be an incredibly stupid and short sighted move. Then again, I am not sure I even want him at 6.


I completely disagree: Clowney is the top pick unless you have a critical need at QB and there's a guy on the board that you think has a good chance to be a franchise player. AND you're set as his role. The only reason we're talking about him falling or being traded for is because Houston and STL have great pass rushes already and have real needs at other positions.

Clowney's monster sophomore season was absolutely enough to secure him a high draft pick, and everyone acknowledged that after the '12 season. The only thing he could do in the '13 season was lose himself money. And he watched Lattimore do exactly that. Twice. The difference in guaranteed money between a top five pick and a third round choice is the difference between saving everyone in his immediate family or giving himself a chance to invest some money. I cannot hold this against him.

Would I expect him to dog it a bit if he's playing for a new contract and concerned about his health for the next contract? I don't know; it's not the same situation once he and his family are financially set for life (theoretically).

That said, I still don't think that Atl can afford to trade up to 1-2-or3 to get him. Maybe 3, but it'd have to be cheap. This has more to with Atl's roster than Clowney, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Could Falcons trade up to No. 1 for Clowney? Texans say
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:52 pm 
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I think Thomas D. is already set to be shipped out after this year & Mike
Smith. Blank just seems to think he has a good team yet we only won 4 games last year!!

Thomas D. screwed things up the last three years just not making drafts
where players could even be decent role players. Its like what was mentioned a couple of weeks ago, Blank is expecting this team to be in the playoffs, and our two lines just can't handle that!!

So Thomas D. is trying to make what he hopes is a great deal, but it won't matter; IMO this team will be ok, but not a playoff team. If we get Clowney no rookie can come in and get 7-9 sacks... It may or may not be a great deal but regardless we won't know next year.....I think Blank will be going completely on our record; and 9-7 (that's the best I hope for) I
think gets both Thomas D. and Smith fired.

I wish I could hope for better but somebody will have to explain to me how our Offensive line and Defensive line can be playoff lines. Somewhere along the way Blank doesn't think our low 4 wins last year
carries over to a lack of players for this year. Going from 4-12 to 9-7 would be a great turnaround; but Blank has lost track of the players and
only thinks playoffs & Superbowl because we made the playoffs a couple of years ago. Blank will be disappointed this year regardless of how our players play IMO. These guys just aren't going to the playoffs!!

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 Post subject: Re: Could Falcons trade up to No. 1 for Clowney? Texans say
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:07 pm 
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samedi wrote:
backnblack wrote:
If we trade what I think we would have to for Clowney TD is writing his ticket out of town. Clowney plays hard? Pudge...have you watched this guy much? IMHO, this would be an incredibly stupid and short sighted move. Then again, I am not sure I even want him at 6.


I completely disagree: Clowney is the top pick unless you have a critical need at QB and there's a guy on the board that you think has a good chance to be a franchise player. AND you're set as his role. The only reason we're talking about him falling or being traded for is because Houston and STL have great pass rushes already and have real needs at other positions.

Clowney's monster sophomore season was absolutely enough to secure him a high draft pick, and everyone acknowledged that after the '12 season. The only thing he could do in the '13 season was lose himself money. And he watched Lattimore do exactly that. Twice. The difference in guaranteed money between a top five pick and a third round choice is the difference between saving everyone in his immediate family or giving himself a chance to invest some money. I cannot hold this against him.

Would I expect him to dog it a bit if he's playing for a new contract and concerned about his health for the next contract? I don't know; it's not the same situation once he and his family are financially set for life (theoretically).

That said, I still don't think that Atl can afford to trade up to 1-2-or3 to get him. Maybe 3, but it'd have to be cheap. This has more to with Atl's roster than Clowney, though.

There will always be a reason not to play hard. One might be that he just signed a huge contract that sets him and his family for life. You and Pudge are taking dif views. you say you understand him not playing hard and Pudge is saying he was playing hard (you just couldn't tell by watching?). It's all speculation. If he were at six--which is highly unlikely--I think he would be hard not to take but if you have to trade multiple picks for him it is a fool's errand in my view. I've been wrong before. Would be much happier to see us trade down and load up with picks, actually. I was not on board with the JJ trade though I still think it is open to debate as to whether it was a good one or not. If you need more evidence than last year to demonstrate what Julio's impact is then I don't know what more I could say.

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 Post subject: Re: Could Falcons trade up to No. 1 for Clowney? Texans say
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:41 pm 
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What if Arthur ordered TD to make the deal. Having a new stadium, a player in Clowney who will draw crowds from South Carolina and other parts to see him, the fact that other than ABE who is the last def end that teams had to worry about? It's been a long long time since the Falcons have been in position to get a def end. Remember in the past teams always drafted ahead and got the Brandon Graham's, Derrick Morgan's etc et and the Falcons had no one to pick because they drafted so late.

What if the deal is the no6 pick, 3rd and 5th rounder and next yrs first. Would you do the deal? It all comes back to how many picks can TD hit on with what he has. Sure the more picks you have the better chance of getting good players but the way TD as drafted it won't matter how many picks the Falcons have if he can't find gems throughout the draft. This is why Pioli was brought in hopefully to find a few gems.

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 Post subject: Re: Could Falcons trade up to No. 1 for Clowney? Texans say
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:15 pm 
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It's obvious the Texans don't want Clowney and neither do the Rams, if we really are looking to trade up we should also talk to the Rams and see if we can get a better deal, playing the two against each other.

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 Post subject: Re: Could Falcons trade up to No. 1 for Clowney? Texans say
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:04 am 
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Quote:
Blank just seems to think he has a good team yet we only won 4 games last year!!


Stop it. :down:

We all know this is better than a four win team. Injuries killed us and you know it.


Quote:
Blank is expecting this team to be in the playoffs, and our two lines just can't handle that!!



Why shouldn't he be thinking playoffs? He owns the team and writes the checks. He damn well better be thinking playoffs. The lines are being addressed. Will they be better? Time will tell, but at least they're tinkering.


Quote:
but Blank has lost track of the players and
only thinks playoffs & Superbowl because we made the playoffs a couple of years ago. Blank will be disappointed this year regardless of how our players play IMO


As much as you Blank haters will disagree, Blank is not the GM. He's the owner...I'm sure he has given his opinion on payers a time or two, (wouldn't you if you owned a team????) but TD is the one shopping for the groceries.


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What if Arthur ordered TD to make the deal. Having a new stadium, a player in Clowney who will draw crowds from South Carolina and other parts to see him


lol. Here we go! So if we do trade up and get Clowney it's because Blank "ordered" him. Let the conspiracy's begin. Seeing how Blank is a such a s***ty owner, let's hope he sells the team and we can get another owner like Rankin Smith. He really wanted to win!


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 Post subject: Re: Could Falcons trade up to No. 1 for Clowney? Texans say
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:02 am 
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AngryJohnny51 wrote:
Quote:
Blank just seems to think he has a good team yet we only won 4 games last year!!


Stop it. :down:

We all know this is better than a four win team. Injuries killed us and you know it.


Quote:
Blank is expecting this team to be in the playoffs, and our two lines just can't handle that!!



Why shouldn't he be thinking playoffs? He owns the team and writes the checks. He damn well better be thinking playoffs. The lines are being addressed. Will they be better? Time will tell, but at least they're tinkering.


Quote:
but Blank has lost track of the players and
only thinks playoffs & Superbowl because we made the playoffs a couple of years ago. Blank will be disappointed this year regardless of how our players play IMO


As much as you Blank haters will disagree, Blank is not the GM. He's the owner...I'm sure he has given his opinion on payers a time or two, (wouldn't you if you owned a team????) but TD is the one shopping for the groceries.


Quote:
What if Arthur ordered TD to make the deal. Having a new stadium, a player in Clowney who will draw crowds from South Carolina and other parts to see him


lol. Here we go! So if we do trade up and get Clowney it's because Blank "ordered" him. Let the conspiracy's begin. Seeing how Blank is a such a s***ty owner, let's hope he sells the team and we can get another owner like Rankin Smith. He really wanted to win!



Amen.

There are THREE GMs on the team now - 4 if you count McKay. Do you really think Blank would overrule that consensus if they recommended another choice? If you do, you haven't been paying attention to how AB works and how the hyper-successful work.

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 Post subject: Re: Could Falcons trade up to No. 1 for Clowney? Texans say
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:08 pm 
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Quote:
Why shouldn't he be thinking playoffs? He owns the team and writes the checks. He damn well better be thinking playoffs. The lines are being addressed. Will they be better? Time will tell, but at least they're tinkering.


I know of course we had a lot of injuries last year..... But just 4 wins?? Matt Ryan wasn't injured.

Our lines sucked so bad bad last year everyone just wants to forget it. I want to forget it too, but when addressing how we will do this year I see
not that much changing "tinkering" as you say; and this line needs its first round pick being a tackle. If that happens ok, but I wouldn't say the lines are being addressed; we've added one or two players who's are no superstars!!

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 Post subject: Re: Could Falcons trade up to No. 1 for Clowney? Texans say
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:13 pm 
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Cyril and I are on the same page here. :beef:

What were the major shortcomings last year? The OL couldn't protect Ryan, and it couldn't open holes for the RBs. The defense couldn't stop the run, and couldn't get off of the field on 3rd down. How much of that was due to injuries?

Injuries certainly contributed to our problems last year. But the injuries themselves were not the cause of our problems. Even if the injuries had not happened, the real problems would have been there. We might have been able to mask them a bit better, but they still would have been there.

I believe that we have taken some steps to address some of the issues. However, there's still a lot more that needs to be done. At this point, I consider both tackle positions to be up in the air. We also have not addressed the pass rush. On top of that, we lost a HoF TE, and we are missing a safety. Do you think that we should try to address as much of this as possible, or should we trade away several of our high draft picks to pick up one player?

Drafting Clowney might help the pass rush in the future. (Typically, DEs do not make a big impact in their first year.) That said, if you think we're in a win-now situation, then drafting Clowney is a big mistake. If you think that we need to build for the future, then trading away a first and second round pick is also a big mistake. Either way you look at it, trading up to draft Clowney is a mistake.


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 Post subject: Re: Could Falcons trade up to No. 1 for Clowney? Texans say
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:39 pm 
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Cyril wrote:
I know of course we had a lot of injuries last year..... But just 4 wins?? Matt Ryan wasn't injured.

Funny, this is the exact same argument I've made to indicate how poor the coaching was last season.
:whistle:

RobertAP wrote:
What were the major shortcomings last year? The OL couldn't protect Ryan, and it couldn't open holes for the RBs. The defense couldn't stop the run, and couldn't get off of the field on 3rd down. How much of that was due to injuries?

Yep, these were the same issues that plagued the team in 2012. The only difference was in 2012, the QB and the Big 3 WRs all played at or near elite levels. In 2013, 2 of the guys got hurt and the other 2 did not play at that level.

So in one sense injuries did cost the team because the team was built entirely off their ability to get top-level production from 4 players, because 50% of those 4 players missed significant time in 2013.

Now 1 of those players is gone, and another is an injury waiting to happen, and a third is approaching or in the twilight of his career.

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