4-12 it is

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DaveWaz
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4-12 it is

Postby DaveWaz » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:08 am

San Fran has too much to play for and Carolina's game will have playoff implications no matter what happens this weekend. I'm thinking we pick 4th.
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Re: 4-12 it is

Postby The Mattural » Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:39 am

The 49er game is going to get ugly really fast if they 40-berger us on national TV Arthur is going to be pissed. This year has been an absolute train wreck the only way this season could be worse is if we didnt have a first round pick.
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Re: 4-12 it is

Postby Cyril » Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:44 pm

We've just had 5 winning season's in a row!! I think this season should teach new fans that every season is a new one and their are about 25 teams that have not been to 4 playoffs
in the last 6 years.

I almost felt our fans thought were had " earned a playoff win " last year before we had one.

I've lived through a lot of 4-12 season's and 5-11 season's and they do suck!! I hope this season teaches our fans that going to a playoff game is as big of a deal as only winning 4 games is!!

We should be proud when we go to the playoffs, and not ever saying after a playoff loss that
it was all for nothing!!

This season was all for nothing; except its should get the owner; coaches; players, and fans
to understand that this is all about entertainment; and winning is how we want a game to end!! Winning equals entertainment satisfaction !!
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Re: 4-12 it is

Postby Pudge » Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:46 am

It should also teach the coaches something. Odd years have consistently been letdown seasons for the Falcons expectations were raised in 1999. We've now been through 4 coaching staffs that can't deal with expectations.
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Re: 4-12 it is

Postby AngryJohnny51 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:22 pm

Pudge wrote:It should also teach the coaches something. Odd years have consistently been letdown seasons for the Falcons expectations were raised in 1999. We've now been through 4 coaching staffs that can't deal with expectations.


Expectations were too steep this year. Blame the media, blame the fans, blame the NFL hype machine. Even if the offense didn't suffer catastrophic injuries, anyone who thought this defense was going to be good this year had their head in the sand. I had this team 9-7 or 10-6 at best and that was with all their guns firing on offense. The defense was just too lucky for too long trhe past few seasons. This year, exposed for what it is. Bad.

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Re: 4-12 it is

Postby The Mattural » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:44 pm

Cyril wrote:We've just had 5 winning season's in a row!! I think this season should teach new fans that every season is a new one and their are about 25 teams that have not been to 4 playoffs
in the last 6 years.

I almost felt our fans thought were had " earned a playoff win " last year before we had one.

I've lived through a lot of 4-12 season's and 5-11 season's and they do suck!! I hope this season teaches our fans that going to a playoff game is as big of a deal as only winning 4 games is!!

We should be proud when we go to the playoffs, and not ever saying after a playoff loss that
it was all for nothing!!

This season was all for nothing; except its should get the owner; coaches; players, and fans
to understand that this is all about entertainment; and winning is how we want a game to end!! Winning equals entertainment satisfaction !!


I dont totally agree with this. Yes this year has been extremely humbling as a fan of the Atlanta Falcons as was 1999, 2003, 2006 and 2007. Those season have shown me that nothing is gauranteed from last year and that it is a challenge to get to the tournament, but in the same sense I dont think that a team should be satified with just getting to the playoffs when they have the talent the Falcons have.

For example, if the Falcons were 10-4 right now and ended up playing the Eagles in the first round and went to Philly and lost in my opinion this season would have been a failure. I want a winning culture but I want my winning culture to be more like the Cardnals than the Atlanta Braves. I liken the playoff failures to when you get a gift that you dont really like, yes I appreciate the thoughtful gesture but at the same time this isnt what I wanted for Christmas lol.
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Re: 4-12 it is

Postby The Mattural » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:49 pm

AngryJohnny51 wrote:
Pudge wrote:It should also teach the coaches something. Odd years have consistently been letdown seasons for the Falcons expectations were raised in 1999. We've now been through 4 coaching staffs that can't deal with expectations.


Expectations were too steep this year. Blame the media, blame the fans, blame the NFL hype machine. Even if the offense didn't suffer catastrophic injuries, anyone who thought this defense was going to be good this year had their head in the sand. I had this team 9-7 or 10-6 at best and that was with all their guns firing on offense. The defense was just too lucky for too long trhe past few seasons. This year, exposed for what it is. Bad.


I think its more on the offensive line because the defense was bad last year but in the playoffs we were able to score 30 on the Seahawks and 24 points while rolling up 477 yards on the 49ers defense. I believe that if the Offensive line wasnt atrocious this year and we didnt have the injuries we would have been able to compete with anyone.
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Re: 4-12 it is

Postby Pudge » Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:39 pm

AngryJohnny51 wrote:
Pudge wrote:It should also teach the coaches something. Odd years have consistently been letdown seasons for the Falcons expectations were raised in 1999. We've now been through 4 coaching staffs that can't deal with expectations.


Expectations were too steep this year. Blame the media, blame the fans, blame the NFL hype machine. Even if the offense didn't suffer catastrophic injuries, anyone who thought this defense was going to be good this year had their head in the sand. I had this team 9-7 or 10-6 at best and that was with all their guns firing on offense. The defense was just too lucky for too long trhe past few seasons. This year, exposed for what it is. Bad.

I agree particularly with the steep expectations. And they will probably be still too high next year, although they will be considerably lowered and potentially more achievable because of the failure of this season. Instead of being a Super Bowl or bust mentality, many Falcon fans will simply be content with a playoff appearance.

But I don't think anybody except maybe a few outliers thought the Falcons would be this bad. Had you told me in the summer that the Falcons would have finished this year 4-12, I would have sworn that meant that Matt Ryan missed at least 6-8 games.

But my point remains that you can go all the way back to 1998 and look at the consistent up/down trend of the Falcons in the years since with possibly 1 or 2 exceptions. Because of a preceding bad/mediocre season people have low/mediocre expectations heading in the even years. And then when the team plays well in those even years, expectations remain high in the forthcoming odd year, and the team fails to meet them. Thus perpetuating the cycle.
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Re: 4-12 it is

Postby Cyril » Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:33 pm

THE Mattural wrote:

For example, if the Falcons were 10-4 right now and ended up playing the Eagles in the first round and went to Philly and lost in my opinion this season would have been a failure.


Well I can't even comprehend that!! If you win 10 games or more the season just isn't a failure. I understand that may be your opinion, but where is all the talent you talk about....

We've just had 5 winning season's in a row when before Coach Smith got here we'd never had two winning season's in a row. Having 5 consistent winning season's is just 5 times what we've ever experienced.

Fans have a way of being greedy and not seeing football as entertainment. Its really not your life, and when you have 10 wins you've had 10 special days. Now when you've won 4 you've had 10 awful days. Different people have different thoughts on how good a team is.

To say you don't want to be the Braves IS LIKE SAYING winning a Super Bowl was not enough, and losing say 4 others was a waste.... Some folks just set up their team to be disappointing no matter what!!

I'd generally say in sports you usually get what you deserve. Sure their are breaks and football can't really be compared to baseball; but if winning games and going to the playoffs can somehow result in a failure for your team, you'll be disappointed most of your sports life!!
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Re: 4-12 it is

Postby Pudge » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:34 am

Cyril wrote:you'll be disappointed most of your sports life!!

I think that goes without saying when you sign up to be a Falcons fan.
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Re: 4-12 it is

Postby backnblack » Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:05 pm

Pudge wrote:
Cyril wrote:you'll be disappointed most of your sports life!!

I think that goes without saying when you sign up to be a Falcons fan.

If championships are all that matter to you it doesn't matter which team you pull for. No team wins one most of the time even if they might for a short burst like the 90s Yankees.

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Re: 4-12 it is

Postby Cyril » Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:16 am

I wasn't disappointed the last 5 seasons. I remember Birdbrain saying two winning seasons in a row didn't matter; not without a playoff win. I knew then he didn't understand Falcon history.

I was probably more disappointed last year because although we didn't have the team; the attitude that we could get turnovers existed. and once a team thinks it can do something it usually can. I thought if we could get to the Super Bowl we matched up well against the Ravens.....

So I was really disappointed about the outcome of the Championship game but we had opportunities; but we also had too many turnovers.....Some stupid!!
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Re: 4-12 it is

Postby Cyril » Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:26 am

Pudge Wrote :
But I don't think anybody except maybe a few outliers thought the Falcons would be this bad. Had you told me in the summer that the Falcons would have finished this year 4-12, I would have sworn that meant that Matt Ryan missed at least 6-8 games.


Well if you'd been told that we'd lose both Roddy and Julio early, lose Steven Jackson, lose Beirman; and have Ryan rushed a lot, then I would have said things will be bad.

I don't think anyone expected 4-10, but we thought the defense was better than it was; and many didn't realize how turnovers made our season last year!!
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Re: 4-12 it is

Postby Pudge » Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:36 am

Cyril wrote:Pudge Wrote :
But I don't think anybody except maybe a few outliers thought the Falcons would be this bad. Had you told me in the summer that the Falcons would have finished this year 4-12, I would have sworn that meant that Matt Ryan missed at least 6-8 games.


Well if you'd been told that we'd lose both Roddy and Julio early, lose Steven Jackson, lose Beirman; and have Ryan rushed a lot, then I would have said things will be bad.

I don't think anyone expected 4-10, but we thought the defense was better than it was; and many didn't realize how turnovers made our season last year!!

Yes, I would have thought they'd have a losing season given those circumstances, but I would have figured coaching staff coudl make us looking like a 6-10 team masquerading as a 4-12 team, rather than a 2-14 team masquerading as a 4-12 team...

I figured wrong. :so:
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Re: 4-12 it is

Postby dirtybirdnw » Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:47 am

I suppose on the bright side this defense has two Defensive Rookie of the Year candidates in Worrilow & Trufant.

Worrilow: 71 Solo Tackles, 43 Assisted Tackles, 1 Sack, 4 Tackles for Loss, 1 PD
Trufant: 52 Solo Tackles, 13 Assisted Tackles, 2 INT's. 16 PD

Worrilow's numbers are impressive considering he didn't even start the first few weeks of the season. Desmond Trufant can be considered among the leagues Top DB's as pointed out by the Falcoholic at SB Nation (http://bit.ly/1bostSn). Even Joplo Bartu has had a great rookie campaign with 79 Combined Tackles, 3.5 sacks, and 1 PD.

So the Falcon defense has plenty of young players with bright futures (Trufant, Bartu, Worrilow). Good enough to end the reign of Dent and relegate him back to the bench while making us forget about Nicholas; while Trufant likely makes Samuel a cap causality this coming off season.

The bigger issue on the defense thanks to those players is fixing the defensive line (which has more to do with bringing back Babs on the cheap and adding at least 1 upper tier DE). One could also include axing DeCoud and bringing in a replacement for him as well.

Then there is the offense which is chiefly about fixing the hideous offensive line.

I don't think Atlanta's stay at the bottom will be long assuming Dimitroff & Co. can patch up the defensive and offensive lines. They'll be in prime position to get an elite offensive tackle. I'd love to get Matthew's to get a proper starting Right Tackle and move Holmes over to Left Tackle and have Baker either off the bench or a cap casualty.

This year was frustrating but I'm not so sure that this team is as bad as it appeared during the season and still hasn't reached full on rebuild status largely thanks to some of the performances from younger players.
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Re: 4-12 it is

Postby Pudge » Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:04 pm

Matthews played right tackle last year with Joeckle at left tackle. But if the Falcons draft him or any other OT in the Top 5 (keep an eye out for Auburn's Greg Robinson if he comes out), and play him at right tackle, I'm going to be very upset.

IMO, teams that draft RTs at the top of the draft aren't getting good value for their picks. Because most teams don't invest highly in right tackles because they are largely interchangeable players. The example of Ephraim Salaam and Tyson Clabo are good examples of late round/undrafted players that were abel to start a long time in the NFL because most RTs are mid/late round talent. The premium on the position is considerably less than it is on LT (and IMO the premium on LT is lessening each year too).

If we draft an OT with our #1 pick, he better start right away at LT. Otherwise it's a waste of a pick IMO. Even if he does what others have done (e.g. Michael Roos, Jammal Brown) and start at RT before moving to LT eventually.

It looks to be a deep OT class, and if the Falcons ultimately decide to go with an OT, I'd very much hope they trade back into the draft and pick up and extra 2nd/3rd/4th round pick or two in order to enhance the value of the position.
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Re: 4-12 it is

Postby RobertAP » Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:13 am

I agree that a top 5 RT would be a dumb move. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to drafting a top 5 LT and moving Baker over to RT. (I'm pretty sure that we all said before that Baker was probably a better RT than an LT.)

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Re: 4-12 it is

Postby Pudge » Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:08 am

RobertAP wrote:I agree that a top 5 RT would be a dumb move. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to drafting a top 5 LT and moving Baker over to RT. (I'm pretty sure that we all said before that Baker was probably a better RT than an LT.)

I've never said that and have gone on record many times with my belief that Baker would probably make a worse RT than LT. I of course could be wrong, but the real block against drafting an OT is Baker's contract. Had the team never written that dumb thing, I know my negativity towards drafting an OT would be much less. But now we'll be forced to carry that albatross around our neck for 1-2 more years :beef:
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Re: 4-12 it is

Postby mattlanta » Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:47 am

dirtybirdnw wrote:I suppose on the bright side this defense has two Defensive Rookie of the Year candidates in Worrilow & Trufant.

Worrilow: 71 Solo Tackles, 43 Assisted Tackles, 1 Sack, 4 Tackles for Loss, 1 PD
Trufant: 52 Solo Tackles, 13 Assisted Tackles, 2 INT's. 16 PD

Worrilow's numbers are impressive considering he didn't even start the first few weeks of the season. Desmond Trufant can be considered among the leagues Top DB's as pointed out by the Falcoholic at SB Nation (http://bit.ly/1bostSn). Even Joplo Bartu has had a great rookie campaign with 79 Combined Tackles, 3.5 sacks, and 1 PD.

So the Falcon defense has plenty of young players with bright futures (Trufant, Bartu, Worrilow). Good enough to end the reign of Dent and relegate him back to the bench while making us forget about Nicholas; while Trufant likely makes Samuel a cap causality this coming off season.

The bigger issue on the defense thanks to those players is fixing the defensive line (which has more to do with bringing back Babs on the cheap and adding at least 1 upper tier DE). One could also include axing DeCoud and bringing in a replacement for him as well.

Then there is the offense which is chiefly about fixing the hideous offensive line.

I don't think Atlanta's stay at the bottom will be long assuming Dimitroff & Co. can patch up the defensive and offensive lines. They'll be in prime position to get an elite offensive tackle. I'd love to get Matthew's to get a proper starting Right Tackle and move Holmes over to Left Tackle and have Baker either off the bench or a cap casualty.

This year was frustrating but I'm not so sure that this team is as bad as it appeared during the season and still hasn't reached full on rebuild status largely thanks to some of the performances from younger players.

You pretty much nailed it. Aside from, as Pudge mentioned, drafting an offensive tackle with our first pick of the draft, I would pretty much agree with everything you said.

I think acquiring one of JaDeveon Clowney, Anthony Barr, or Khalil Mack is a must. I'm a believer that if you fix the pass rush, you will see a boost in the secondary on this team (which may allow us to give DeCoud one more year to improve / re-prove himself.) I think the talent drops off a little after Clowney, but Barr and Mack can definitely still get after the quarterback better than any of our other pass rushers.

Even with Gonzalez set to retire and Jackson looking like he's no where near the same running back that he was in St. Louis, I still think this team has plenty of weapons to play with as long as we fix the offensive line. We've discussed how to do that already, so I won't get into too much detail. But I just wish we address one or both of the lines in free agency. I'm curious how much you guys think a guy like Michael Oher will cost us? I know he's struggled guarding the blind side (no pun intended) in the past, but it's looking like Sam Baker will be getting a good shot at regaining his starting spot back when he returns from his injury next year.


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