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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:27 am 
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What??

Pudge Wrote
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Today's reality is that the Falcons offense has basically become one that asks Ryan to not lose the game because they want to dial it back due to his turnovers, but unlike Alex Smith they don't have the league's best defense that can get stops, nor do they have the running game and a Top 5 RB helping their offense that Smith has that allows KC to win that way. Instead, the Falcons have arguably the worst running game in the league,


So the Falcons have no running; no receivers; so what is Mike Smith suppose to do to open things up?? You know he'll get killed staying in the pocket longer.

We had problems from T.D. before the season as I pointed out; then the rash of injuries; tell me how you would make a game plan against the Saints tomorrow.??

He's doing what he can with such a disadvantage of poor players going into a game?? You said yourself its Ryan checking down; and I can't really blame him...

You just sat back and changed your mind about Smith?? This was coming as soon as Ryan
got sick of being hit!! If its on anybody its on T.d. THE FRONT OFFICE screwed up this off season!! I still give a NFL franchise 1 break every 6 years!!

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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:59 am 
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Pudge Wrote
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What isn't on Ryan is the weapons he has around him. One of the reasons why Brady has been quasi-competent with crap WRs is that he had an entire off-season and summer to work with them. What has proven in hindsight to be a grievous miscalculation is that without that same time to work with Johnson/Davis/etc. Ryan simply doesn't trust his receivers. Part of that is on coaching, largely thanks to the fact that over the course of 3 years here, guys like Cone and Davis really haven't had extended opportunities to integrate themselves in the starting offense. The other part of that is on the front office for not accurately predicting that this would happen. And the other part of that is on Ryan, simply because he's the QB and at the end of the day it's on him to complete passes to the WRs.

The issue again here is similar to what it was post-2011, which is people want to blame one thing for what ails the team, whether it's the head coach, the GM, the QB, the OL, the WRs, the defense, etc. The Falcons are going to have to fix multiple issues to get this team corrected.

I'm getting tired of people trying to whittle down the Falcons problems to 1 or 2 areas as if that's all or most of the problem. It's a team-wide issue. Sure, there are areas that are bigger issues than others. And I would certainly say that the problems on both the OL and DL are the 2 biggest problems this team has. And if the Falcons can go from bad to good in both of those areas, it will certainly mask many of the other issues the team has.


So its Ryan, Front Office,more than one problem; and you've decided its Mike Smith. You've just caved to the masses unless I'm reading something wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:07 pm 
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What I'd do is try to mix it up on the first 15 scripted plays of the game.

Instead of starting the game with the typical "let's establish the run" by giving it to Steven Jackson on 1st & 10 up the middle, I'd run play-action and try to take a deep shot right off the bat.

I'd design plays that are designed to get big chunks of yardage at a time.

I'd spread the field and try the "double bubble" screen to either HD or Darius Johnson that we used to do all the time with Julio in the lineup, but no longer do.

Again, the Falcons struggles stem entirely from a very conservative game plan that wants to keep the game close, but they clearly don't have the personnel to do so. The best and only way to combat that is to try and get a big lead early in the game. And the only times since Julio's injury the Falcons have been able to score points have come almost entirely off drives where they generated big plays (see Harry Douglas and Antone Smith vs. Bucs in Week 7 and Week 11). They need to design and call plays that are designed to get big chunks of yards.

The problem with Ryan's checkdowns is that if the Falcons had a game plan that emphasized the big play, Ryan wouldn't be so quick to check it down. If they ask him to sling it, then sling it he will.

But because of the high number of INTs over the past month, they've dialed him back. Thinking "Don't turn it over Matt, because that will get us in a hole. One that is too big to climb out of."

But what they haven't realized is that running their conventional offense is DOING THE EXACT SAME THING. Because the defense can't get stops and gives up huge chunks of yards starting in the 2nd quarter, they find themselves in a hole. And because they've only generate 3-7 points up to that point, they are in that situation regardless of whether Ryan has turned the ball over yet.

This is bad coaching. This is why I've "caved to the masses." This is the EXACT SAME PROBLEM the Falcons had in 2007 with Petrino. They continued to rely on Joey Harrington's check downs and dinking and dunking his way to White, Robinson, Crumpler, and Jenkins, and running it with Dunn rather than giving their most explosive player: Jerious Norwood the ball more often and it kept resulting in that team struggling to put more than 14-17 points on the board. Teams that generate less than 20 points per game, win about 20% of games. Teams that generate 21 or more, win 74% of the time. The Falcons offense in 2007 didn't start to look better until Chris Redman got into the game late and started taking deep shots down the field to Roddy. And if you don't have the personnel to do it, then you HAVE TO go out and find it.

You CANNOT win football games with our defense and trying to sustain an offense with the league's worst rushing attack. If the coaches don't realize this, then they don't deserve to be coaches at this level. They have to make this adjustment, but they're afraid to because they lack the testicular fortitude.

People criticize that Mike Smith does a poor job at making adjustments. What we've seen over the past 4 weeks clearly show that those people were 200% correct.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:29 pm 
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THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS 200% but yea he'd rather keep it close than to get beat 40-0.

We might sneak out a win by keeping it close but we don't have the defense to go up
by 21 points. FLIP- FLOP You ever considered politics (:

Quote:
They need to design and call plays that are designed to get big chunks of yards.


We got people who may can do something once; but no football players; we just disagree
and I'd rather leave it at that!!

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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:59 pm 
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Cyril wrote:
We got people who may can do something once; but no football players; we just disagree
and I'd rather leave it at that!!

I will concede that we probably don't have any real deep threats at this point in time, except for perhaps Davis. But again, who's fault is that? That said, even if we had deep threats, our QB still doesn't have enough time to find guys deep, unless he decides to throw it up at the snap.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:58 am 
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Quote:

I will concede that we probably don't have any real deep threats at this point in time, except for perhaps Davis. But again, who's fault is that? That said, even if we had deep threats, our QB still doesn't have enough time to find guys deep, unless he decides to throw it up at the snap




I agree!! I just don't want to argue about Coach Smith he's done so much for this franchise.

Your answer is I suppose Thomas D. The injuries have really been staggering but its just something a team goes through during a decade. We have maybe found a Running back (pissed at Smith for not using Antone Smith more;) we found perhaps two free agent linebackers and the one new receiver. We have two rookies learning at corner; I mean if a new coach comes in it throws you back 3 years...... Smith and Thomas D. will use this as a learning experience and continue to get better at their jobs; and we've got the rookie corners and 3 new starters; then should have a good draft.

I don't blame Ryan at all. We've been winning while others have been losing; we can use this year to our advantage knowing who can play and who can't. The one last factor is Arthur has a Coach AND GM he seems to like; I just hope public pressure from fans always expecting winning seasons, not to cause Arthur to make a serious mistake.

Shawn Payton was suspended all last season and the Saints sucked; yet he's right back in it
this year..... I'd like to see an "old" Baltimore type defense.

Yes our O-line sucks from Thomas D. thinking some guys could play who can't. I just wouldn't fire a guy with 5 straight winning season's. Hawley may have found his spot at center. Its just hard for me to kill the rookie linemen knowing how some learn so much from their first year, and some don't learn s***!!

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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:37 am 
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My biggest issue with the line is the right guard spot. Of course, I'm just repeating myself at this point, as are we all. However, it was pretty obvious again tonight that we do not have an NFL capable right guard on this team.

I'm simply going to agree to disagree with the 5 winning seasons stuff regarding Smith and Dimitroff. The problems on this team have been mounting up for a while. It boils down to two possibilities, or a combination of the two... Either Dimitroff has done a bad job of drafting, or the coaching staff has not developed the talent. At the end of the day, Dimitroff and Smith have been unable to develop the offensive and defensive lines. They've had five years to do something, and have failed. Something has to change.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:43 am 
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Cyril wrote:
I just wouldn't fire a guy with 5 straight winning season's.

Me neither, but if you can't field a competitive team for 10 weeks, then it does somewhat negate that.

IMO, it's not the 5 winning seasons that prove Mike Smith is a good coach, it's really these games now, that do so. Now this team is facing a huge amount adversity, and they haven't been able to respond. So what happens in the future when such adversity hits, do the Falcons go back into the shell?

Injuries have been a factor this year, but they weren't much of a factor in those 5 previous years and it makes one wonder if Smitty's success was due to the sheer luck of staying healthy for that long period of time.

I don't know that answer, but the Falcons have an opportunity to show now that Smitty's success wasn't because so many things went right around him, but were of his own making, because he can field a competitive team even when things go wrong.

Look at Belichick in 2008, where he loses Tom Brady and they go 11-5. The way the Falcons have played (TNF excluded) the past few weeks is like the team I think we would all expect if Ryan went down. But Ryan isn't down, and this team's effort and mental toughness can be questioned. And it's disappointing that the team has poorly adjusted to the absence of their key injured players this year by just going very vanilla over the past month.

Now, whether Smitty should be fired or should be kept, I won't say. But I'm just at the point that if Smith is fired at the end of the year, with the way this team is playing, then I won't blame Arthur Blank and I'll say good riddance. If Blank decides to keep Smith, then the leash will be very short and he'll no longer get the benefit of the doubt from me.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:14 pm 
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Quote:

I'm simply going to agree to disagree with the 5 winning seasons stuff regarding Smith and Dimitroff.


Well that's their record. We've enjoyed 5 season's. Berfore that WE'D NEVER HAD TWO WINNING SEASON'S IN A ROW; almost an unbelievable fact!! Its been the best 5 years we've ever had!!

Quote:

IMO, it's not the 5 winning seasons that prove Mike Smith is a good coach, it's really these games now, that do so


I think that's an easy answer to give but way off base..... You'd have to live to about 80 and not have two winning season in a row from here to 80, to appreciate what we've had these last 5 years......

Here's the difference; when a player is out for the season; its like a death on a team; they're not coming back......Absolutely gone like a death. Many teams have guys hurt but they often come back......not out for the season or not dead; just hurt.

Now who is going to step up?? Who should step up??? Who do we have that's capable of stepping up??

We were going to lose ten games before the season started because we had
no right tackle; no left tackle; no right guard; and no proven center. Thomas D. screwed up with the Baker resigning. I can make an EASY case that if someone goes it should be Thomas D.

Our defense had one linebacker in Weatherspoon; and really no defensive linemen except C. Peters. Two starting rookie corners??

How in the world is a Coach going to coach that lack of talent?? I'm really surprised Pudge you insisted this was a playoff team; and didn't see all of these open positions that we had no proven players for?? I mean really Pudge; think about what I'm pointing out??

You've said last year Coach Smith won more with less talent; and he's done that all 5 years.

The only hope you had was that Matt Ryan would elevate his game and he hasn't. He's playing his game. There is no one around to get a better outcome from.

Look I'm retired now and doing a lot of different things and if Smith is fired I won't be devastated like 15 years ago; with losing season's every year. It will be you younger guys who suffer and I don't wish the record I've watch on anybody.

This coach can win with a few players, but he has no way to turn this lack of talent around.
If he's fired I won't say I told you so, but I am telling you now; Don't fire a proven winner on one bad season; only the losers do that!!

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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:50 am 
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Cyril, I believe that our skill position players on offense, (Ryan, Jones, White, Gonzalez, Douglas, Jackson, Rodgers, and Snelling) are among the best groups in the NFL. However, our offensive line is among the worst in the NFL. We are seeing that if you neglect the offensive line in such a way, the skill position players have a much harder time making plays.

Our RBs often don't have holes to run to. Our QB almost never has time to let a play develop, and must often either throw to his first read, or a check down. The QB doesn't have the option of moving around in the pocket because our pocket implodes almost immediately because we have no right guard.

On defense, we've simply done a horrible job of acquiring and developing talent. We've missed HUGELY on free agents and draft picks alike. We have done more with less on defense. But again, I have to ask... Why should we have confidence that the guy who has blown it so far on defense, will make the right moves going forward?


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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:24 am 
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Well are you talking about firing Mike Smith or Thomas D??

Look coaches can help players to some extent, but many good ones like Michael Turner (a risk) free agent,
just start from day one. Others like Roddy need time to get it. A head coach needs to get 11 guys to play as a team......(Obviously Roddy is not ok)....Thomas D. has done a terrible job with the line; leaving us two very raw tackles on offense, no proven player to start as center, and
the guaranteeing Baker 18 million makes me puke.

I certainly don't think Snelling, or Rodgers are anything special.

I mean Coach Smith doesn't make the pick, he can ask
for certain positions, but we don't have players leave here because their let go, and do great things other places....My case against Thomas D, would be free agent Ray Edwards, and specifically Osi!! For the draft a third for Curtis Loften didn't work out for us,

I hate projects like Lawence Sidbury ; and even Kroy Beirman, I think he has 3 sacks last year and a couple of pressures ; many like him because he's just too small so he's an underdog.
CHRIS Owens IS A LOST #3 PICK; you got to make 1-3 work. Jerry was a #1 and I don't know if he injury was the problem but he's JAK. I could bash Thomas D. for hours on both offense or defense.

Mike Smith is a different story though. I mean he must use Reynolds at right guard who was Hawley's back-up a few years ago as neither has worked out.....Thomas D's plan for a center has been a disaster; but Coach Smith keeps trying different folks; but I just don't blame a coach for a lack of players. I can't be mad at Coach Smith for not having any players.....It would be like blaming Ryan because he doesn't have linemen..... I can't do that!!

Pudge mentioned that he didn't think this line is much worse than last years line. Well just losing a center can be a big deal, and I hate to think Blalock is our best blocker. I think this o- line is far inferior to last year.!!

Sure we have offensive weapons but Roddy shouldn't be playing in my opinion, and with Julio out; and Roddy hurt, its caused Ryan problems....

I honestly think good players will show something quickly; like Ryan or Julio. Our middle linebacker has played well from day one in the middle.

I've stared at our roster for hours and can't see anymore players. Most everything is on Thomas D. but with Gm's they get fired and show up somewhere else and THAT team gets his experience. I like Thomas D. but losing him won't hurt the team like firing Coach Smith.

Coach Smith almost took us to a Super Bowl with no running game; and a lack-luster defense last year.....I mean if the players can't open holes on offense; or rush the defense with players, how can I blame Coach Smith?? No its all on Thomas D. but I think this is a pivital year in this franchise. I would let them both evaluate talent and we'd be starting so much farther ahead than 6 years ago!!

Ps. People keep mentioning Gruden; Tennessee wanted him; he starts at 4:00 am studying film of all teams and he does a great job as a commentator. I SAW THIS ON A HBO SPECIAL.

Gruden know his strength is knowing the game and pointing it out to us. His downfall is he has no patience with anyone that is a pro. So most players hate him!!

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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:18 pm 
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Well, I said it in another thread, of the two, I think that TD is my first choice to go. He's the one that put us in this situation. I haven't seen much evidence that GM's, "learn from their mistakes." They either are good at making personnel decisions, or they are not. TD has blown a lot of draft picks, and a lot of free agent moves. I don't see how he's going to, "get better," especially when he consults with guys like Belichick and then ignores the advice.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:16 pm 
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Cyril wrote:
Two starting rookie corners??

You mean the rookie corners where one is rated by PFF as the 23rd best cover man in the league and the other is the 49th best cover man in the league out of 108 corners?

Cyril wrote:
We were going to lose ten games before the season started because we had
no right tackle; no left tackle; no right guard; and no proven center.

I'm sorry but I don't buy that.

But the point remains that even with the injuries, this team should be playing better. It's not the losing itself that is bothering me, it's how they lose.

They have gone vanilla. If I'm being honest, Dirk Koetter is the guy that I'm most pissed at. But what is disappointing me about Mike Smith is that he seems to be oblivious or incompetent in regards to fixing this. If you're the coach that for most of this season I was saying you are, then man up!

A lot of the complaining that I have been doing over the years that most others called "nitpicking" because the team was winning, now doesn't seem so "nitpicky" now does it?

But part of my complaining was how some of the small stuff/details wasn't helping them get better (for example, their unwillingness to shake up their roster) when they were winning, and now that they've had their issues this year and are losing, it's definitely not helping them get better.

And the realization that I've come to in recent weeks is that the entire organization is flawed, and unaware of it because they're complacent. This year is entirely about complacency and hubris, and the believe in their "process" that posits that if they can hover in the vicinity of being a Super Bowl team long enough, eventually they will be a Super Bowl team, but not really doing anything or having a plan to get there. What looked like brilliant strategizing from the start (signing Turner, drafting Ryan) has turned into clueless meandering since 2010.

As for firing guys, if you're going to fire the GM, then you might as well fire the coach. History tells us thanks to situations like Gruden in TB, that you're more likely to reap positive results by keeping the GM and changing head coaches than vice versa. The only real time when you've hired a new GM that inherited a head coach and it worked out was in instances where the head coach was there for just 1 year (thus the organization was already in the midst of shaking up the front office), as opposed to 5 years.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:51 pm 
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Quote:
And the realization that I've come to in recent weeks is that the entire organization is flawed, and unaware of it because they're complacent. This year is entirely about complacency and hubris, and the believe in their "process" that posits that if they can hover in the vicinity of being a Super Bowl team long enough, eventually they will be a Super Bowl team, but not really doing anything or having a plan to get there. What looked like brilliant strategizing from the start (signing Turner, drafting Ryan) has turned into clueless meandering since 2010.


i AGREE with this!! That's why I thought at the moment he did it; letting Tony G. just stay at home while signed showed a terrible start for the season for Coach Smith. That's only on Coach Smith.

When I mentioned the corners I was not referring to how their playing now; it was part of my
thinking that these are way too many open positions.

The thing is all humans including me; sometimes start coasting and not giving 100% to different situations; when some one wakes me up; I usually get upset at myself at go back to getting more accomplished!!

Really the only place we disagree is I think our defense is poor enough to never take a 21 or even 17 point lead. I mean if we're really pretty much out of options what are you going to do?? Our Game Thursday night might have been the best game of the season. iTS too bad our rookie receiver fumbled in the fourth quarter.

I think the Falcons will keep losing with maybe 1 win somewhere maybe against the Redskins?? I agree all the hubris and thinking the playoffs were a given
& why even play the season since the playoffs is all that counts, is enough to get a Coach fired. But is it best for the franchise??

From what I can tell I'm the only one thinking Smith should be given one more year and its mainly because of my experience from firing Leaman Bennett then never finding a decent coach or Gm. I don't know what they are but new coaches working out have a 0% of my experience here in Atlanta. I've seen it a lot though. Soon I'll just drop out of this conversation because I feel like I've lived it before; but also understand the past doesn't equal the future.

Coach Smith will be hired by someone else so quick; I'm not going to worry about that millionaire any more or Blank making a horrible decision!!

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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:15 pm 
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Ps. Tennessee did the same thing when Phil Fulmer had won a National Championship but went about 7 years not winning the SEC but going to bowl games......

So they hire the guy from UCS who stays 1 year; then hires Vince Dooley's son; who craps;
so now Tennessee is off the map and haven't done much since Fulmer.

It happens all the time in the NFL too. Blank getting along with Smith and Thomas D. is worth something too. My timing for dropping season tickets after 38 years seems to have been good; going to these games would drive me crazy (: Watching them is even boring but I went
33 years of my 38 years as a season ticket holder never seeing two winning season's in a row.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:31 am 
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Cyril wrote:
From what I can tell I'm the only one thinking Smith should be given one more year…

I want to stress that I don't have a problem giving Smith another year. What I'm saying is that at the end of the year, if Arthur Blank decides to move on, I don't blame him.

This team has become a horrible football team over the past 5 weeks. If this team faced the 2007 Falcons, I think it's even money on who would win.

That's my point, is that this team has become so bad under Mike Smith, that he has to be culpable in that. There's no reason for this team to be as bad as your typical 2-14 or 3-13 team, which they are. There's no reason why this team with the injuries they've had shouldn't be playing like a 6 or 7-win team as you originally expecting them to be.

My point is that if Mike Smith is such a good coach, then why is this team playing like one of the 3 worst teams in the league, which include Jacksonville that has Chad Henne and Minnesota with their musical chairs at QB. We have stability at QB, we have a Top 10 QB, or at least a guy that should be playing like a Top 15 QB even with the injuries, yet Matt Ryan is currently playing like a Bottom 10 QB.

I was in favor of Jim Mora being given one more opportunity in 2007, but the Falcons chose otherwise. Which I was fine with. I would have given Mora one last chance with a different OC. I can get behind Smitty getting 1 last chance, but he needs to make major changes to his coaching staff this off-season, starting with dismissing Koetter, Hill, and probably a few more names.

It just goes back to complacency. This team looks/feels like one that is just going through the motions this year, waiting for next year to start, as opposed to trying to do something to play better the rest of the way. I know many don't want to see that happen because it could ruin our chances to get Clowney or some other great player, but it again speaks to the complacency of the organization that IMO when this season is over, internally they are going to chalk this year up to injuries as opposed to really examining themselves and seeing the flaws they have brought to the table for years.

And it's one of the reasons why I'm kinda hoping that Blank steps in, because firing some guy and forcing change is probably the only way we'll get change.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:55 pm 
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I think he should get another year also, CF, but nothing would surprise me. If a move is made it will be primarily due to PR and the new stadium and trying to get PSLs palatable to a weak fan base.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:15 am 
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Quote:

That's my point, is that this team has become so bad under Mike Smith, that he has to be culpable in that. There's no reason for this team to be as bad as your typical 2-14 or 3-13 team, which they are. There's no reason why this team with the injuries they've had shouldn't be playing like a 6 or 7-win team as you originally expecting them to be


Pudge yes their is!! You honestly think about this question

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If you really thought through that before the year started On Offense that we had an unproven right tackle; unproven right guard; and a unproven center; and were hoping Sam Baker played good. What would you think would be the results??


Quote:
If you thought about our defensive line and realized while last year we had no pass rush; we basically traded Abe for Osi; and were short a tackle, short a defensive end; and we needed two other linebackers to go with Weatherspoon; and realized we'd be playing with two rookie corners how would your guess be at rating this defense??


Pudge I'm afraid you kinda got a tiny bit complacent too; admitting that is not a fatal flaw or
a lack of judgement?? You just can't hope to fill 6-8 positions..... Maybe 2-4 but not 4 players on your Offensive line.

The injuries just took what made us look professional to a terrible team. 0-4 in preseason and I was the only one saying this looks like crap!! It all adds up to we really sucked before the season started; Ryan was going to get killed and our defense was probably not as good!!

Now tonight tell me how these open positions worked out; Right Tackle; Right Guard; Center, Sam Baker, (before hurt) and our defensive line?? This team was set for failure and
and the injuries made us horrible. Of course Blank; & Thomas D, are gonna act surprised.

Quote:
We WERE NOT GOING TO WIN 8 GAMES BEFORE THE INJURIES; just look at what we had open??


Blank probably is surprised but he thinks its the injuries; Smith and Thomas D. aren't going to point fingers. If chain of command is followed is would be Thomas D. who fires Smith; and he's the one who is probably privately telling Smith if their not back in the playoffs next year to fire them both.

If Everyone says we're going to be in the hunt for a Super Bowl; I mean EVERYBODY; then it must be true right??

Quote:
Yes Smith & Thomas D. are culpable for letting so many positions become empty while they were winning. Now do you start over; or stay with the guys who helped you have 5 straight winning season's.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:21 am 
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Cyril wrote:
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And the realization that I've come to in recent weeks is that the entire organization is flawed, and unaware of it because they're complacent. This year is entirely about complacency and hubris, and the believe in their "process" that posits that if they can hover in the vicinity of being a Super Bowl team long enough, eventually they will be a Super Bowl team, but not really doing anything or having a plan to get there. What looked like brilliant strategizing from the start (signing Turner, drafting Ryan) has turned into clueless meandering since 2010.


i AGREE with this!! That's why I thought at the moment he did it; letting Tony G. just stay at home while signed showed a terrible start for the season for Coach Smith. That's only on Coach Smith.

When I mentioned the corners I was not referring to how their playing now; it was part of my
thinking that these are way too many open positions.

The thing is all humans including me; sometimes start coasting and not giving 100% to different situations; when some one wakes me up; I usually get upset at myself at go back to getting more accomplished!!

Really the only place we disagree is I think our defense is poor enough to never take a 21 or even 17 point lead. I mean if we're really pretty much out of options what are you going to do?? Our Game Thursday night might have been the best game of the season. iTS too bad our rookie receiver fumbled in the fourth quarter.

I think the Falcons will keep losing with maybe 1 win somewhere maybe against the Redskins?? I agree all the hubris and thinking the playoffs were a given
& why even play the season since the playoffs is all that counts, is enough to get a Coach fired. But is it best for the franchise??

From what I can tell I'm the only one thinking Smith should be given one more year and its mainly because of my experience from firing Leaman Bennett then never finding a decent coach or Gm. I don't know what they are but new coaches working out have a 0% of my experience here in Atlanta. I've seen it a lot though. Soon I'll just drop out of this conversation because I feel like I've lived it before; but also understand the past doesn't equal the future.

Coach Smith will be hired by someone else so quick; I'm not going to worry about that millionaire any more or Blank making a horrible decision!!


I don't agree with you a lot of the times, but I definitely agree here. Smith has had five winning seasons out of six. I fear a new coach could just as easily slip us back into non-consecutive winning seasons as take us to a SB. If the Falcons lay an egg next year, then can him.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:21 pm 
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Well Spanky it feels really good for someone else to step up and acknowledge the last 5 years
has been worth being a fan; and most can't imagine going 50 years without back to back winning season's. If they had that actual experience I think many would recognize that one horrible season doesn't erase 5 winning one's in a row.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:28 am 
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I have thought about those tough questions.

But what bothers me isn't that the Falcons OL stinks. It's that the team hasn't done anything to fix it. That this group is either so set in their ways about continuing "the process" or was so football-blind that they honestly thought Brian Robiskie would help them at the midpoint.

Remember how I said before the end of the 2011 season that this team's decision on keeping or cutting Turner would be all you needed to know if the front office was capable of making the tough decisions required to build a championship team. And we know how that went. But they were able to go even further in 2012 despite the presence (or rather hindrance) of Turner on the roster.

And that Robiskie decision was another bone-headed decision.

Is Mike Smith to blame for that? No. But the problem is that Robiskie move was probably an organizational decision. I'm sure there was no discord on that move, so Smitty signed off on it. So I'm assuming this team had a plan in place to sort of offset the stupidity of that move. Like they would figure out a way to get it done with the WRs they had. But it's clear there was no such plan.

But then we hear about them dialing back the no-huddle, the biggest strength of the offense. And I'm thinking about Mike Smith, and I'm thinking that Drew Davis and Kevin Cone have been on this roster since 2011, and they haven't been developed enough to be able to run enough no-huddle so that the best asset of the offense is't marginalized.

So it makes me wonder what they've been doing for the past 2.5 years. And it makes me think that for that entire time, this coaching staff never once expressed the possibility that they could be without their top WRs for a long time, which is laughable when you consider that Julio Jones has missed time in like 5 straight seasons.

As you've pointed out, this team doesn't have the pieces to run the style of offense they've tried the past 5 weeks. They can only score when they get big chunks of yards, yet they continue to dink and dunk and be vanilla trying to operate a sustaining offense with the league's worst rushing attack and no weapons on the outside.

It's the same basic beef that I had back in '11 with their flawed game plan against the Giants. But then, it was a bit more plausible that Smitty could put trust in Turner and the running game, and with Mike Mularkey as the OC, there was an easy scapegoat there when things fell apart.

But now, with a much worst run game, they basically made the same plan. But now we can't blame Mularkey. So we blame Koetter. But at a certain point, maybe we need to start looking at the head coach.

This is why I've lost confidence in Smitty. That the 2 recent times when Smitty has had to deal with adversity and face a wall, he's come up with 2 losing strategies.

And the realization that I'm coming to now is that in order for this team to be good, they are just going to have to be significantly better than the other team. Because Smitty isn't showing he's capable of elevating lesser talent. I once thought he had been doing that, but I'm not so sure now.

And all I'm looking out for is some confirmation of that previous belief. And just because you were a good coach for 5 years, doesn't mean you get a pass from coaching this year. This team has become leaderless and soft since Julio got hurt. Apparently, Julio was the heart and soul of this team. And if Mike Smith was as good a coach as I once believe him to be, that would've never happened.

And while it's not a good possibility that those issues get solved/changed if Smitty is fired, I think it could still be a greater possibility than if he stays.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:44 am 
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This team has become leaderless and soft since Julio got hurt. Apparently, Julio was the heart and soul of this team.


IMO ABE and Roddy were the heart of this team. This team has been soft since preseason and
as I said before I think Thursday was unfortunately their best game.

I thought Drew Davis was really showing something; but if you think we had extra talent last year I think your wrong. I don't know how Smith went 13-3 and beat Seattle for Seattle was the better team; while Thomas D. made 3 bad free agent picks in two years.... EDWARDS; OSI; JACKSON!!

I like Matt Ryan but he hasn't exactly shown much under any adversity either, although I can't blame him. I mean if your the coach and you bitch about the Robiskie pick-up you just look like your looking for excuses. We don't know how much Smith was bitching in preseason.

I was sure wrong about S. Jackson pick up but so was Thomas D. in fact most of the organizational screw-ups like you mention have been in the last 3 years. I just think Smith has to play with the players he's given.

Really you may not believe me but I'm pulling for smart moves more for you younger fans than for me.

Quote:

But now, with a much worst run game, they basically made the same plan. But now we can't blame Mularkey. So we blame Koetter. But at a certain point, maybe we need to start looking at the head coach.


I realize Thomas D. has all these awards; but really when you start talking about planning;
how could a Gm. go into a season with all these open positions. Perhaps his relative in T.V.
has told Smith how great it is to talk about football verses actually coaching it, (you don't see many wanting to leave T.V.) and hell he's just thinking he'll just let these ungrateful folks in Atlanta wonder around another 40 years if that's what they want.

I've not blamed anyone; but if I think we had no team at the start of the season what would you guess I'm thinking. If you fire the G.M. its true a new GM comes in and wants their own coach. AT the end of the season Blank will be numb (lynch mentally) and probably won't mind firing Smith at all; then the merry go round starts again!!

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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:23 pm 
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Open positions? You mean the positions that had a 2nd round pick with 10 career starts (center/Konz), 5th round pick with 13 career starts (right guard/Reynolds), and 3rd round pick at RT (Johnson), with a 4th round pick with 12 career starts (Hawley) and 3rd round pick (Holmes) all in the competition?

Look, I'm usually quick to dump on TD, but let's not like he's crazy for thinking these players would produce and step up and be competent. I liked Konz coming out of Wisconsin, I thought Reynolds had a nice future as a backup OL, Johnson was very good at Alabama, and Hawley and Holmes certainly have NFL skillets. If we're declaring all these picks busts/disappointments, then that's ultimately on Dimitroff, but I can't say he's completely culpable for those failures. He gave Smitty & Co. 5 guys with NFL skillsets, and he hasn't held up his end of the bargain.

Smitty was the one that dismissed Paul Boudreau, who is now in St. Louis and has made Shelley Smith, a former 6th round pick from Houston, into a competent fill-in starter, Joe Barksdale, a castoff from Oakland out of the 3rd round into a competent starter, is helping Rodger Saffold make a successful transition to RT, a position he never played before until this year. And who replaced Boudreau? Pat Hill, a college coach that hadn't been a position coach at any level since Mike Kenn was still playing.

You know I never bought into that Super Bowl talk, but I just don't agree that this team was destined to fail going into the season. With a healthy group, there was reason to believe they would be in playoff contention. And even with the injuries, they've suffered there's still no excuse for this team to be as bad as they have been.

The other issue is Matt Ryan. And it's the same situation as that Giants playoff game, where Ryan deserves blame for his shoddy play, but it's very clear that Mike Smith and his cronies don't have a clue how to make a QB effective. No wonder that Matt Ryan hasn't been able to consistently elevate his play.

And forget the past 5 years. If the goal is to get better going forward, then why shouldn't we wipe the slate clean? Look, I want to keep Mike Smith, but he's not giving me anything to suggest that he deserves to keep his job.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:18 am 
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Pudge you said before the season
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Look, I get how a person could be down on the Falcons off-season.

Best OL in 2012: Tyson Clabo

Gone. Replaced with Lamar Holmes and Mike Johnson. Why would anyone outside Flowery Branch feel like the Falcons got better there?

Lose Todd McClure to be replaced by Peter Konz.

Konz stunk last year, why would you feel like they got better there?


Now that you Thought Konz sucked last year; lost our best lineman in Tyson Claybo; and says Lamar Holmes & Mike Johnson can't be upgrades; so we have four linemen that can't cut it; including Hawley; and it seems you has changed your mind now that the line collapsed as anyone would have believed if honest with the fact's. In fact now that we see the results you now say
Quote:
Open positions? You mean the positions that had a 2nd round pick with 10 career starts (center/Konz), 5th round pick with 13 career starts (right guard/Reynolds), and 3rd round pick at RT (Johnson), with a 4th round pick with 12 career starts (Hawley) and 3rd round pick (Holmes) all in the competition?


JEEZ PUDGE THIS IS EMBARRESSING.... You say Reynolds is going to be a back-up, you said Konz stank, in 5 years Reynolds only had 13 starts while inactive all 16 games in 2010. because he couldn't make the team his rookie year!!

Mike Johnson had 12 career starts in 4 years; also inactive weeks 1-17 his rookie year; couldn't make the team!! Never could be a starter in 4 years!!

Hawley could never keep a job for 3 years; and Holmes wasn't even in the picture.

Please use some context when saying things like this,.

In fact I've told many people I learn a lot here from you. You dig for more information than I'm willing to; but you helped me know the outcome of this year!! It really does all start upfront!!

In fact A lot of reason I THOUGHT THIS YEAR WOULD BE A DISASTER WAS BASED ON THINGS YOU SAID ABOUT THESE LINEMEN THEN i LOOKED IT UP. YOU WERE RIGHT!!

Also your thoughts on Stephen Nicholas; and Akeem Dent who only started 25 of 47 games while at Georgia.

While I read the backgrounds of players you mentioned I was always surprised you thought the Falcons were automatic playoff contenders. Your facts on players didn't support what you thought for the team this year.....

Quote:
In fact A lot of reason I THOUGHT THIS YEAR WOULD BE A DISASTER WAS BASED ON THINGS YOU SAID ABOUT THESE LINEMEN THEN i LOOKED IT UP. YOU WERE RIGHT!! And the linebackers too. You got it all right but your not taking into consideration we were trying to fill positions with players you actually thought sucked.....


I can now see the outcome of the season was based on four linemen
completely sucking that could be predicted; and playing with 2 free agents at linebacker replacing players you thought were ready to be gone; replacing guys you thought were average at best!! I just researched what you said and came to the most logical thinking I could. 0-4 in preseason and playing like s*** should have given you pause!!

Then the injuries and you wonder why we're a 2 or 3 game winning team?? I saw us fall to 5-
11 after our Super Bowl year!! I know what it looks like, and now you do too. You may have been in high school then.....

I guess if you won't rethink this our debate is over; I said 6-10 based on your information and the injuries showed our lack of depth. Ok, lets blame it on the head coach because he can't change it now!!

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 Post subject: Re: I'm going back to Matt Ryan = Game Manager
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:54 am 
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Cyril, this really is the perfect time to re-ask the question that I've been asking, which I do not have an answer to... Is Dimitroff picking losers, or is Smith & Co not developing the talent?

Now, I can say with a certainty that it seems that our young players seem to show promise for a year or two, then turn to hot garbage. It looks like it could be a development issue. But again, I really can't make that call with 100% certainty. I've been asking for feedback on that question, but I haven't gotten much response. I believe the question hits the nail on the head, and since we really cannot answer it, both guys need to be shown the door.


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