The Dolphins are a mess

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Re: The Dolphins are a mess

Postby AngryJohnny51 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:06 pm

The "pussification" as you call it is trying to make the players not into brain damaged suicidal 50 year olds who can't remember why they are in the room they just walked into. But since as long as you get your jollies, let them make each out into semi functional vegetables with traumatic brain damage, is that it?


Players know the risk. If they didn't 20 years ago, they certainly do now. No one is holding a gun to their heads and forcing them to play. they know the risk and get paid a handsome salary for it. If I had the physical talent to pla in the NFL, I would knowing what could happen down the road. Who else here would or wouldn't?

And as a PS - I don't "get my jollies" from seeing players injured. I like to watch good, hard, CLEAN football.

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Re: The Dolphins are a mess

Postby Pudge » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:18 pm

The league's "heart" is int he right place, but their execution is questionable.

We saw 2 plays on Sunday in the ATL-SEA that were deemed 15-yd personal foul calls that should never have been so. The one on William Moore and the one later on Bruce Irvin on what looked like a clean hit on Patrick DiMarco. I also hate the blow to the head penalty on the QB. If a defensive player launches himself at the head/helmet of a QB, then yeah, that should draw a flag, but putting your hands up to bat down a pass and then in the process of bringing them down you slap the helmet of the QB, that IMHO is the height of stupidity.

Now the positive for the NFL is that the level of officiating in the pro game is soooooooooooooo much better than it is at any other level of football, that despite these "errors" they don't really have a huge negative impact on the game. We bitch and moan about them, but the level of competition being what it is, 2 or 3 bad calls a game typically don't swing the outcome. NFL teams are (or at least should be) more than good enough to compensate.

But in college, it's ridiculous because...

A-how bad the officiating is (largely due to the sheer number of teams diluting the pool)
B-how stupid some of the rules are (the everything is reviewable has made the refs sack-less) and
C-the penalties for them (automatic ejection for a bang-bang targeting play)

So when I think about that, I realize it could be a lot worse in the NFL. Doesn't make it right, but I don't lose nearly as much sleep because of how things can be relative.
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Re: The Dolphins are a mess

Postby Wease » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:39 pm

AngryJohnny51 wrote:
The "pussification" as you call it is trying to make the players not into brain damaged suicidal 50 year olds who can't remember why they are in the room they just walked into. But since as long as you get your jollies, let them make each out into semi functional vegetables with traumatic brain damage, is that it?


Players know the risk. If they didn't 20 years ago, they certainly do now. No one is holding a gun to their heads and forcing them to play. they know the risk and get paid a handsome salary for it. If I had the physical talent to pla in the NFL, I would knowing what could happen down the road. Who else here would or wouldn't?

And as a PS - I don't "get my jollies" from seeing players injured. I like to watch good, hard, CLEAN football.


And the NFL has the duty to make it as safe as possible. If the NFL knows the risks (and they do) and DOES NOT MITIGATE that risk, then assumption of the risk is out the window. It will never be perfect, but there are common sense ways to mitigate the risk of brain damage. The no hitting a guy in the head, the no crushing a defenseless receiver. the no using a helmet as a weapon. I could go on and on, but some see that as "pussification"

The protecting the quarterback issue is about protecting the corporations most valuable asset. In the modern NFL, if you have a crap QB, you watch the Super Bowl on TV.

Pudge has it right, I think, the execution is a bit excessive. The two calls in the SEA-ATL game were bogus, but they are going to err on the side of calling. The college games I have watched are even worse when they start ejecting folks, but that will get sorted out eventually.
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Re: The Dolphins are a mess

Postby backnblack » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:45 pm

We are mos def heading in a direction where not only can you not hurt players--you can't hurt their feelings. Genie is out of the lamp. The rules to protect are ruining the game but if could well be that the athletes have themselves by their level of fitness made the rules unfit. All those penalties in the SEA/ATL game seemed pretty ridiculous to me. I'm not saying they were called wrong its just that the rules are ridiculous. BTW, why can a runner use his head as a battering ram and why can a RB stiff arm all up in someone's face mask like Lynch did to Moore but it is not a hands to the face thing? How long will it be before patrons begin suing rock bands for their hearing loss? KOs have gone from one of the more exciting plays in a game to pretty much ceremony. Lots of these guys make more in a game than construction workers will make in a lifetime and I don't know that the risk is any greater. Nevertheless, it is what it is.

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Re: The Dolphins are a mess

Postby backnblack » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:58 pm


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Re: The Dolphins are a mess

Postby fun gus » Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:55 am

fun gus wrote:I guess we will see, but there is common law and common sense. I'm thinking my scenario is more likely.

8-)

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http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/ ... incognito/

total money grab. Undeniable, now. PTSD? I wish I knew someone who has been in the military for many years, who could elucidate on this. To equate football hazing with a condition that many servicepeople suffer from is despicable. The only reason he is seeking this help is for one reason only: to use in a lawsuit against the NFL because he will now be blackballed.

This is the opinion not only of Fun Gus, but a great deal of commentators that actually strapped on the pads, like Alge and Finneran, who basically said the same thing on air yesterday.

let this be a lesson to the NFL. Be wary of any player who has two parents that went to Harvard Law.

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Re: The Dolphins are a mess

Postby backnblack » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:04 am

I tried to make a living in the music biz for years. I have PTSD, no doubt.

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Re: The Dolphins are a mess

Postby Wease » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:14 am

backnblack wrote:I tried to make a living in the music biz for years. I have PTSD, no doubt.



if you suffered a trauma, perhaps. PTSD is not just a wartime affliction. I had victims in my courtroom that had or alleged to have it after suffering or alleged to have suffered all types of crimes. People acquire It from car accidents observing something horrible, really anything that causes a trauma can be the first step in a PTSD diagnosis. Of course trauma alone is not enough for PTSD, the DSMV lays out a whole litany of symptoms that must be met.

Merely reading a poorly written post or listening to a corpulent poster's music wont be enough.

By the way, having ignore on certain posters makes this a much more pleasant place to read. It makes it easier to wade through the stupid to get to something that may be worthwhile to read. :mrgreen:
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Re: The Dolphins are a mess

Postby fun gus » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:19 pm

:rofl:

Image

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take a good, close look fellas...This is progressive hive-thought and political correctness run amok. A grown man in the NFL seeking help from PTSD because another guy called him a nasty name, and teased him for not being a team player.

Yeah, definitely NOT setting up for a lawsuit....

:roll:
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Re: The Dolphins are a mess

Postby backnblack » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:04 pm

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Re: The Dolphins are a mess

Postby fun gus » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:45 pm

Pudge wrote:Here's the "defense" of Martin…

I believe that everybody should have the right to go to work in a non-hostile environment. .


Here is where I, once again, the voice of REASON must take issue with this nonsense.

the very term 'non-hostile environment' was coined by lawyers. And, in most cases, it makes sense.

In MMA? In the NFL? The very SPORTS themselves are HOSTILE. They are not 'pastoral, laid back sports'. Football originated out of RUGBY, one of the most vicious sports alongside Gaelic Hurling, which is 'Rugby with a Stick'..

To even 'suggest' that these two sports ( along with hockey, but I dont really care about those losers) should be anything BUT 'hostile' is an affront to the sport itself. Only lawyers could make being a Gladiator a 'victim'.


Need to see an example? Boxing. PC got boxers to use helmets and gloves, and it went from guys getting knocked out and quitting to guys who took a million hits ( ALI) and THEN ended up 'punch-drunk'..again, the law of unintended consequences.

I am sorry, but 'some' jobs should be in a 'hostile' environment. Some jobs require the 'environment' itself to be 'hostile'This, should be one of them. Football is a contact sport but as Bear Bryant famously quipped 'it is controlled violence'. This goes beyond mere sports. Jobs like cops, soldiers...Jobs where terrible injury is lurking right around the corner. You dont want your beat cop to be a sadistic a$$hole, but when he/she has to take down a violent perp, you definitely do not want them to consider whether or not they would be 'hurting feelings'.

I forget which military historian I heard awhile back but he made this distinction: in the runup to WW2, while the French were teaching thier kids philosophy and ethics, the Krauts were teaching thier kids to march with a pack. By the time the terrible business got underway, these kids almost damn took over the entire continent!

Yet, here we are and I cannot help but think what the oldschool football greats would think about this..A grown, educated man seeking therapy from hazing. :roll:

But basically, it is business..Now, if you dont have alot of experience in that, I 'get it'. I am of the mindset that 'business' will take care of itself. Not so in the No Fun League...I cannot see where this leads to a 'favorable' outcome. I see it unraveling, and causing about 4 times the problems, because now we get three levels of new lawyers AND the new inclusion of 'therapists'....

Lets 'hope' that does not happen.

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boom*swish
Last edited by fun gus on Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Dolphins are a mess

Postby backnblack » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:49 pm

You know, things in society can change pretty quickly relatively speaking. Cyril has been saying for awhile that the NFL has peaked. I'm not sure that that is accurate but there is a lot of stuff seeming to come to a head with it on a few dif levels with the health issues and litigation being one of them. Greed is such a finger pointing sort of word but I do think greed from all corners is gonna be the death of it along with people just not feeling good about being complicit with it all as the curtain gets pulled back a little more every year. Could be wrong....

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/24243680/former-rutgers-player-says-he-was-bullied-by-coach

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Re: The Dolphins are a mess

Postby Cyril » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:06 am

i'M ALWAYS HERE; just perk-up when I see my name.

I don't see what Wease said wrong; although I don't agree with it. (I maybe misunderstood)

This may be way off but its like seat belts; everybody has one but many don't use them.
I think a person should take whatever risks they choose. The league makes its money from people watching violence. The Qb is unprotected; as long as the game is about people getting as strong as they can; then hitting as hard as you can; their will be problems.

Watching Tommy Nobis try to walk or even Reeves; now it hurts to watch....So maybe they can stop some concussions; but not walking after 60 is not something I'm interested in.

Their use to be an off season; now people are looking for ways to bulk up. I admit I don't know what the NFL will do; but if they can keep people safer and still command an audience;
their fine. Other wise they'll do what is in their best interest IMO.

I just don't see a right or wrong; the NFL needs violence in their product; for those that want to play they know the risks. Maybe not all of them, but I'd be ready for other injuries to turn up over the years..... We've gotten stronger, and bigger, and things will get worse and I doubt the violence will ever stop crippling many players.
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Re: The Dolphins are a mess

Postby Cyril » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:09 am

Cyril has been saying for awhile that the NFL has peaked. I'm not sure that that is accurate but there is a lot of stuff seeming to come to a head with it on a few dif levels with the health issues and litigation being one of them. Greed is such a finger pointing sort of word but I do think greed from all corners is gonna be the death of it along with people just not feeling good about being complicit with it all as the curtain gets pulled back a little more every year. Could be wrong....


Your not wrong, but it will take another 20 years.
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Re: The Dolphins are a mess

Postby Wease » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:41 pm

Cyril wrote:i'M ALWAYS HERE; just perk-up when I see my name.

I don't see what Wease said wrong; although I don't agree with it. (I maybe misunderstood)

This may be way off but its like seat belts; everybody has one but many don't use them.
I think a person should take whatever risks they choose. The league makes its money from people watching violence. The Qb is unprotected; as long as the game is about people getting as strong as they can; then hitting as hard as you can; their will be problems.

Watching Tommy Nobis try to walk or even Reeves; now it hurts to watch....So maybe they can stop some concussions; but not walking after 60 is not something I'm interested in.

Their use to be an off season; now people are looking for ways to bulk up. I admit I don't know what the NFL will do; but if they can keep people safer and still command an audience;
their fine. Other wise they'll do what is in their best interest IMO.

I just don't see a right or wrong; the NFL needs violence in their product; for those that want to play they know the risks. Maybe not all of them, but I'd be ready for other injuries to turn up over the years..... We've gotten stronger, and bigger, and things will get worse and I doubt the violence will ever stop crippling many players.


I think you may have misunderstood. The NFL needs to take reasonable steps to make it safer. It will never be safe. There is an element of assumption of the risk and consent. It is and always will be a violent sport. It is like boxing; there are rules to protect fighters, but they can and only will go so far. When you objective is to inflict a brain injury on your opponent, well, you make the injury as minimal as possible and they do that with padded gloves.

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Re: The Dolphins are a mess

Postby backnblack » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:27 pm

There's always gonna be a line drawn somewhere either in our minds or in the court room or whatever. As with many things these days, the dark side is a little harder to ignore because it sells and there is ample conduit to broadcast it. It doesn't make it any righter or wronger than it used to be...just different.

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Re: The Dolphins are a mess

Postby Pudge » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:43 am

fun gus wrote:
Pudge wrote:Here's the "defense" of Martin…

I believe that everybody should have the right to go to work in a non-hostile environment. .


Here is where I, once again, the voice of REASON must take issue with this nonsense.

the very term 'non-hostile environment' was coined by lawyers. And, in most cases, it makes sense.

In MMA? In the NFL? The very SPORTS themselves are HOSTILE. They are not 'pastoral, laid back sports'. Football originated out of RUGBY, one of the most vicious sports alongside Gaelic Hurling, which is 'Rugby with a Stick'..

To even 'suggest' that these two sports ( along with hockey, but I dont really care about those losers) should be anything BUT 'hostile' is an affront to the sport itself. Only lawyers could make being a Gladiator a 'victim'.


Need to see an example? Boxing. PC got boxers to use helmets and gloves, and it went from guys getting knocked out and quitting to guys who took a million hits ( ALI) and THEN ended up 'punch-drunk'..again, the law of unintended consequences.

I am sorry, but 'some' jobs should be in a 'hostile' environment. Some jobs require the 'environment' itself to be 'hostile'This, should be one of them. Football is a contact sport but as Bear Bryant famously quipped 'it is controlled violence'. This goes beyond mere sports. Jobs like cops, soldiers...Jobs where terrible injury is lurking right around the corner. You dont want your beat cop to be a sadistic a$$hole, but when he/she has to take down a violent perp, you definitely do not want them to consider whether or not they would be 'hurting feelings'.

I forget which military historian I heard awhile back but he made this distinction: in the runup to WW2, while the French were teaching thier kids philosophy and ethics, the Krauts were teaching thier kids to march with a pack. By the time the terrible business got underway, these kids almost damn took over the entire continent!

Yet, here we are and I cannot help but think what the oldschool football greats would think about this..A grown, educated man seeking therapy from hazing. :roll:

But basically, it is business..Now, if you dont have alot of experience in that, I 'get it'. I am of the mindset that 'business' will take care of itself. Not so in the No Fun League...I cannot see where this leads to a 'favorable' outcome. I see it unraveling, and causing about 4 times the problems, because now we get three levels of new lawyers AND the new inclusion of 'therapists'....

Lets 'hope' that does not happen.

If you like your coach, you can keep your coach 8-)

boom*swish

I'm not talking about the field. I'm talking about the locker room. The game itself represents at most 5% of the work hours that pro football players put im. The other 95% is all the off-season workouts, practices, film study, weight lifting, training and rehab, etc. Probably amounts to 2000 hours per year.

Now just because they play football doesn't mean those 2000 hours need to be hostile, where guys have to dread going to work every day because of the abuse they may receive. If a woman worked for the organization, should she be expected to be sexually harassed because she happens to be going to work everyday with a bunch of meatheads where that's the culture?

Now, based off what has been disclosed by Martin's camp thus far, I don't see what he's been exposed to as "excessively hostile." But based off the fact that what has been divulged is likely the tip of the iceberg, I'm willing to give Martin the benefit of the doubt and not assume that what we've heard thus far is the worst of the worst.

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Re: The Dolphins are a mess

Postby fun gus » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:57 pm

Pudge wrote:Now just because they play football doesn't mean those 2000 hours need to be hostile, where guys have to dread going to work every day because of the abuse they may receive.


If a woman worked for the organization, should she be expected to be sexually harassed because she happens to be going to work everyday with a bunch of meatheads where that's the culture?..



I really love this new culture. :lol:

http://jimflopodcast.libsyn.com/bullying-in-the-nfl

[urlhttp://jimflopodcast.libsyn.com/bullying-in-the-nfl][/url]

There ya have it, fellas. The NFL was not happy enough, they had to figure out how to 'branch out'. Who doesn't like the NFL? Well, 'some would say' Nerds, Women and Soccer Fans'.

:lol:
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Re: The Dolphins are a mess

Postby backnblack » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:45 pm


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Re: The Dolphins are a mess

Postby fun gus » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:11 am

Although Martin has been painted as a victim in the alleged bullying scandal, teammates didn't hesitate to come to Incognito's defense once the news became public.

Back in November, when there was speculation that the Dolphins might release Incognito, MMQB.com's Peter King reported that at least one playoff-contending team that could be interested in Incognito's services for the stretch run.

Knowing that, along with the support of his Dolphins' teammates, it's reasonable think Incognito would have little trouble finding work in the offseason.

Martin's situation could be trickier, especially if teams view him as soft based on his decision to leave the Dolphins.
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