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 Post subject: Who do you want to trade?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:40 pm 
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I have read that the Falcons would be amenable to trading TG back to KC. I am not sure if anyone would give us something for Jackson, but he should be on the block. I would also consider Douglas, Osi and Samuel.

Now, I am not talking about a fire sale. If we can get some good value for some of these players then I say take it.


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 Post subject: Re: Who do you want to trade?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:23 am 
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Spanky Ham wrote:
I have read that the Falcons would be amenable to trading TG back to KC. I am not sure if anyone would give us something for Jackson, but he should be on the block. I would also consider Douglas, Osi and Samuel.

Now, I am not talking about a fire sale. If we can get some good value for some of these players then I say take it.


No shot trading Douglas that would just be silly. Trade a guy, who's actually being productive. The rest of them I could see it as a positive mode. As much as I love Asante, not sure what else they could get out of him. He's still playing relatively well, but I can see him losing interest and not being motivated. Osi's value is pretty shot right now, can't do squat with him.

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 Post subject: Re: Who do you want to trade?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:04 am 
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I think we have 3 or 4 players who could genuinely be considered good trade material. The problem is, you wouldn't want to trade those players.

I think that Jacquizz Rodgers, Harry Douglas, Sean Weatherspoon, and Julio Jones are really the only players on the team who would have any significant value. Most of the rest of the team has contracts that make them unfavorable for a trade, or the players simply don't have much trade value. I can't see Rodgers and Douglas fetching that much in a trade. Spoon might. I'm pretty sure that no one is interested in making a Hershel Walker type trade for Julio Jones.

It's possible that the Falcons could trade away vets and pick up some late round picks. However, we don't do much with late round picks.


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 Post subject: Re: Who do you want to trade?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:18 am 
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No lets play out the season that we have. Teaching during the season will help; and getting a couple of 7ths is not worth anything. Tony can come back if he really wants too.

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 Post subject: Re: Who do you want to trade?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:40 am 
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seriously, why not? I bet we could get a 5th or perhaps a 4th for TG to a contender. I would also consider putting Asante on the block as well, although I bet the best we could get is a 5-7th pick. Yes, that means the Falcons have to eat Tony's salary, but it is the classy thing to do. Tony is not going to commit to blocking anymore this season we have backup TE's that need these reps.

Also, by December, we need to sit Ryan out for some portions/games. We are going into November against Panthers, Seahawks, Buccs and Saints. The only game we have even a 'shot' at winning ( lets be real here ) is the Buccs, and thats a maybe. So were going into December, against Buffalo, Packers, Redskins, San Fran Sissy, and the Panthers. Are you seeing the big picture here?

So by December, we need to start seeing what Dominique can do. Also, I would make a move to get a competant backup in here by December as well. We have no third QB on the depth chart.

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/team/depth-chart.html

My reasoning is this. Were statistically eliminated from any post-season. Every snap Ryan takes in December opens him up for a bad injury. We need to address our backup QB issues, we would like to have a high pick, were going to be lucky to go 4-12, and that is if Ryan is playing his ass off. Matt Ryan has proven he doesn't need shiny hood ornaments WR's, he can get it done with guys like HD and Tololio, etc. But we need to start finding a guy that CAN step into the QB slot and step up. Although I thought D Davis COULD be that guy, I am not so sure. But what is the harm in finding out? And if he sucks, then get someone who doesnt, so were not wasting one of those late round picks we could get for TG on another Seth Renfroe. IMO, we need to address our OL, and I mean REALLY address it.

Let me be clear, I am not suggesting we sit Ryan for entire games...Just some of these December games to see what we have backing him up. He is statistically more likely to get a bad injury if he plays 100% of these games. Let say he plays 70%...Sure he COULD get injured just the same on these 70%, but to me this is another 'risk/reward/ scenario.. We get to see what our backups can do ( reward ) and we have taken 30% of 'risk' off the table. :whistle:

The means not hiring JAG's ( Manuwai,Trueblood, etc..) and also not having a fatass that cant get in shape and play 60 minutes ( Holmes ) and Pat Hill should have been shown the door yesterday..

Now I am fully prepared for the rebuttal....'If the guy can go, then play him'. But this season is meaningless now. Mike Smith needs to wake the F up and learn from his mistakes. If Ryan goes down in December, playing late against teams that are going to beat us anyways, I think Smith's seat should be on f*cking fire. :ninja:

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 Post subject: Re: Who do you want to trade?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:07 am 
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fun gus wrote:
seriously, why not? I bet we could get a 5th or perhaps a 4th for TG to a contender. I would also consider putting Asante on the block as well, although I bet the best we could get is a 5-7th pick. Yes, that means the Falcons have to eat Tony's salary, but it is the classy thing to do. Tony is not going to commit to blocking anymore this season we have backup TE's that need these reps.

Also, by December, we need to sit Ryan out for some portions/games. We are going into November against Panthers, Seahawks, Buccs and Saints. The only game we have even a 'shot' at winning ( lets be real here ) is the Buccs, and thats a maybe. So were going into December, against Buffalo, Packers, Redskins, San Fran Sissy, and the Panthers. Are you seeing the big picture here?

So by December, we need to start seeing what Dominique can do. Also, I would make a move to get a competant backup in here by December as well. We have no third QB on the depth chart.

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/team/depth-chart.html

My reasoning is this. Were statistically eliminated from any post-season. Every snap Ryan takes in December opens him up for a bad injury. We need to address our backup QB issues, we would like to have a high pick, were going to be lucky to go 4-12, and that is if Ryan is playing his ass off. Matt Ryan has proven he doesn't need shiny hood ornaments WR's, he can get it done with guys like HD and Tololio, etc. But we need to start finding a guy that CAN step into the QB slot and step up. Although I thought D Davis COULD be that guy, I am not so sure. But what is the harm in finding out? And if he sucks, then get someone who doesnt, so were not wasting one of those late round picks we could get for TG on another Seth Renfroe. IMO, we need to address our OL, and I mean REALLY address it.

Let me be clear, I am not suggesting we sit Ryan for entire games...Just some of these December games to see what we have backing him up. He is statistically more likely to get a bad injury if he plays 100% of these games. Let say he plays 70%...Sure he COULD get injured just the same on these 70%, but to me this is another 'risk/reward/ scenario.. We get to see what our backups can do ( reward ) and we have taken 30% of 'risk' off the table. :whistle:

The means not hiring JAG's ( Manuwai,Trueblood, etc..) and also not having a fatass that cant get in shape and play 60 minutes ( Holmes ) and Pat Hill should have been shown the door yesterday..

Now I am fully prepared for the rebuttal....'If the guy can go, then play him'. But this season is meaningless now. Mike Smith needs to wake the F up and learn from his mistakes. If Ryan goes down in December, playing late against teams that are going to beat us anyways, I think Smith's seat should be on f*cking fire. :ninja:


Remove all the Harry Douglas returning punts arguments from a few weeks ago and insert Ryan sitting out games here.


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 Post subject: Re: Who do you want to trade?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:48 am 
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AngryJohnny51 wrote:
fun gus wrote:
seriously, why not? I bet we could get a 5th or perhaps a 4th for TG to a contender. I would also consider putting Asante on the block as well, although I bet the best we could get is a 5-7th pick. Yes, that means the Falcons have to eat Tony's salary, but it is the classy thing to do. Tony is not going to commit to blocking anymore this season we have backup TE's that need these reps.

Also, by December, we need to sit Ryan out for some portions/games. We are going into November against Panthers, Seahawks, Buccs and Saints. The only game we have even a 'shot' at winning ( lets be real here ) is the Buccs, and thats a maybe. So were going into December, against Buffalo, Packers, Redskins, San Fran Sissy, and the Panthers. Are you seeing the big picture here?

So by December, we need to start seeing what Dominique can do. Also, I would make a move to get a competant backup in here by December as well. We have no third QB on the depth chart.

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/team/depth-chart.html

My reasoning is this. Were statistically eliminated from any post-season. Every snap Ryan takes in December opens him up for a bad injury. We need to address our backup QB issues, we would like to have a high pick, were going to be lucky to go 4-12, and that is if Ryan is playing his ass off. Matt Ryan has proven he doesn't need shiny hood ornaments WR's, he can get it done with guys like HD and Tololio, etc. But we need to start finding a guy that CAN step into the QB slot and step up. Although I thought D Davis COULD be that guy, I am not so sure. But what is the harm in finding out? And if he sucks, then get someone who doesnt, so were not wasting one of those late round picks we could get for TG on another Seth Renfroe. IMO, we need to address our OL, and I mean REALLY address it.

Let me be clear, I am not suggesting we sit Ryan for entire games...Just some of these December games to see what we have backing him up. He is statistically more likely to get a bad injury if he plays 100% of these games. Let say he plays 70%...Sure he COULD get injured just the same on these 70%, but to me this is another 'risk/reward/ scenario.. We get to see what our backups can do ( reward ) and we have taken 30% of 'risk' off the table. :whistle:

The means not hiring JAG's ( Manuwai,Trueblood, etc..) and also not having a fatass that cant get in shape and play 60 minutes ( Holmes ) and Pat Hill should have been shown the door yesterday..

Now I am fully prepared for the rebuttal....'If the guy can go, then play him'. But this season is meaningless now. Mike Smith needs to wake the F up and learn from his mistakes. If Ryan goes down in December, playing late against teams that are going to beat us anyways, I think Smith's seat should be on f*cking fire. :ninja:


Remove all the Harry Douglas returning punts arguments from a few weeks ago and insert Ryan sitting out games here.



not comparable. I dont want Ryan out for entire games, just some of them to see what we have backing him up. Harry Douglas was our only option, therefore it only makes sense not to tempt the fates.

Notice you didn't hear me bitching when Alford made a mistake returning, because I kind of expected that.

Why doesn't it make sense to let Ryan sit in December for a little bit anyways? Were eliminated. Might as well use this time to get real time reps for the backups. That takes a negative and turns it into a positive.

Right? :snooty: :whistle:

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 Post subject: Re: Who do you want to trade?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:57 am 
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1st of all, nobody is going to give up real value for Tony Gonzalez except maybe a conditional 6th or 7th round pick, and that would only be a team like KC that somehow thought they were a good TE away from wining a title. Gonzo is only going to play 8 or so games, depending on how deep a run a team makes in the playoffs, and a team like KC would be gifting us that draft pick just to give Gonzo a legit shot at a title and only because he's one of KC's favorite suns.

Secondly, Quizz and HD have little to no trade value, unless you believe a 6th or 7th round pick are worthwhile. Remember teams traded starting LTs (a premium position) for 5th round pick. Douglas is a No. 3 receiver on virtually every team, and Quizz is just a change of pace/3rd down back in the rest of this league.

The only players that have trade value in Atlanta are Ryan, Julio, Tru, and Spoon, at least in regards to which Falcons players could legitimately fetch a 4th round pick or higher. Even at this point in his career, the Falcons would be lucky to get a 5th rounder for Roddy if they opted to trade him tomorrow.

Thirdly, I would back fun gus suggestions of playing Dom Davis but with these caveats:

1. They don't play him before Week 14. The Falcons basically need to have a record of no better than 3-9 going into that Week 14 game vs. Green Bay and the final quarter of the season.

2. The Falcons only plug Davis in garbage time. Let's say if the Falcons are down 2+ scores with less than 10 minutes left in the game, then giving Davis the next series or two to play wouldn't be a bad thing.

But honestly fun gus, I think the Falcons know what they have in Davis. They just may be in denial over it, as they have been about a lot of things regarding their team over the past 12 months.

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 Post subject: Re: Who do you want to trade?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:09 am 
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Pudge wrote:
1. They don't play him before Week 14. The Falcons basically need to have a record of no better than 3-9 going into that Week 14 game vs. Green Bay and the final quarter of the season..



Pudge, why wait until game 14? Can you expound on this? I am a little confused..... :?:

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 Post subject: Re: Who do you want to trade?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:39 am 
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Largely because even though I've said otehrwise preivously, there's teh faintest of possibilities that the Falcons can catch the Panthers next week and at least make it a competitive game if not steal a win.

Then they should be able to beat TB in Week 11. Then in Week 12, I want to see if the Falcons have any mojo left to keep that Saints game competitive. And in Week 13, they have another winnable game on the raod vs. Buffalo.

While we may only be looking at best at 2 wins, it's possible the Falcons can be competitive in 4 out of their next 5 games. And if that's the case, then I don't really see any reason to take a look at Davis.

I don't believe in tanking. I think that we should give some of the younger players more reps, certainly. Case in point, Babs is averaging nearly 60 snaps per game. That's too much to begin with, and reducing that by 15 to get more reps to Travian Robertson & Malliciah Goodman is not a bad thing. But you can't really do that at QB without taking him off the field, unless the Falcons have an extensive wildcat package they've been hiding under a rock the past 2 years.

And thus I don't really want to see them mixing in Davis if they have the capacity to be competitive. Now obviously if in 3 weeks, the Saints are beating us 38-10 in the 3rd quarter, then by all means put in Davis.

But you and I both know that ain't gonna happen. There's not a chance in hell the Falcons would sit Ryan for a single snap, unless they were down 3 or more scores in the final 2 minutes of a game.

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 Post subject: Re: Who do you want to trade?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:36 pm 
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Fun Gus wrote
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Pudge, why wait until game 14? Can you expound on this? I am a little confused...


Gus for those of us who think firing Smith would be bad I still want to win. Also in the NFL their is an unwritten rule you don't sit if your healthy. This is mostly so season ticket holders believe their seeing the best team out their.

Finally Ryan wouldn't want the embarrassment.... Their been plenty of good Qbs play with lousy lines with nothing to play for. See Tony Romo, Pitts Qb, well every Qb that is not hurt plays..... Plus a Coach can't just surrender any game.

We all know your logic is fine; god help us if Ryan get hurts; I'm just saying teams fighting for wildcards want 100% effort from everybody..... Again if we're 4 tds behind that's ok for about 7 minutes; but its just not going to happen much; but in any other sport and any other position it would pass with everybody; and the logic is good..... I swear a new coach would set us back forever. A new Gm probably wouldn't be any better. The best are hired!!

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 Post subject: Re: Who do you want to trade?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:38 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
Largely because even though I've said otehrwise preivously, there's teh faintest of possibilities that the Falcons can catch the Panthers next week and at least make it a competitive game if not steal a win.

Then they should be able to beat TB in Week 11. Then in Week 12, I want to see if the Falcons have any mojo left to keep that Saints game competitive. And in Week 13, they have another winnable game on the raod vs. Buffalo.

While we may only be looking at best at 2 wins, it's possible the Falcons can be competitive in 4 out of their next 5 games. And if that's the case, then I don't really see any reason to take a look at Davis.

I don't believe in tanking. I think that we should give some of the younger players more reps, certainly. .



Pudge, love ya buddy...And your pragmatism has tempered the fires of Fun Gus. But, I am sorry, I dont know what game you watched yesterday...were down to being *cough* competitive..? We are not. Fire sale, Nolan bails for more greener pastures. Get what you can for Tony as a 'class act'. ...This is the 'hallmark' of the Falcons: Honor, BS. Do it for the man. The fans would love you for it, and right now believe me, they (Blank) NEEDS it.

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 Post subject: Re: Who do you want to trade?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:19 am 
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Pudge just wasn't thinking when he said this

Quote:
Even at this point in his career, the Falcons would be lucky to get a 5th rounder for Roddy if they opted to trade him tomorrow.


Roddy would get a #2 tomorrow. Get P. Manning to do something with a big receiver. John Fox knows how good he is!! Roddy isn't fast anymore; I guess his wrestling background taught him leverage like Tong G.

Folks think Roddy is going way too soon. Roddy can do to corners like what Tony G. does to middle linebackers.

There's about 20 teams that would take Roddy for a better value than a 5th???

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 Post subject: Re: Who do you want to trade?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:01 am 
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You're crazy if you think the Falcons could get anything more than a 3rd day draft pick for Roddy, Cyril. Maybe in a few months when he's proven he's healthy, they could get something better than a 5th. But during the middle of the season, they aren't going to get squadoosh in trade value.

Not to mention, you don't understand that you almost never get back in trade value what a player is worth. Roddy isn't worth a 2nd round pick at this point in his career given that he might have 3 more productive years left. Maybe a 3rd or 4th round pick. And typically when it comes to trades, you subtract at least a round for what you think you should get for a player. Case in point with Eugene Monroe, a former 1st round pick that if a player of his caliber was available in any draft would merit a Top 15 pick every time. He just got traded to Baltimore for a 4th and 5th round pick, two players that are likely to be career backups. The reason for that is partly because Monroe isn't guaranteed to be playing for the Ravens in 2014.

Roddy is 32 years old at the end of the week. He is signed through the 2014 season. He is injured and could easily miss the next month of the season. The Falcons have been not forthcoming with his injury, and given Mike Smith's history in regards to those things, his silence is damning. So it's possible that any team that trades for him, really won't get any production from him for the rest of the 2013 season. He's had a high ankle sprain that really hasn't had much time to heal, and has a hamstring injury, the mosquitos of NFL injuries (the most annoying and nagging). He's caught 22 passes during this year, thanks to those injuries, and is less productive than Kevin Ogletree, Cole Beasley, and Brian Quick, receivers that are the 4th receivers for their respective teams.

Roddy will be 33 when his contract expires in 2015. Now, I've said numerous times that No. 1 WRs like Roddy, when you look at players like Hines Ward, Donald Driver, Derrick Mason, Marvin Harrison, Joe Horn, Terrell Owens, etc. typically can play well until they hit the age of 35.

But is a team going to really want to re-sign him in 2015 to a 2 or 3-year deal for what is likely going to be for around $4-6M/yr.? Wes Welker signed a 2-yr. deal for an avg of $6M/yr. this past spring just before his 32nd birthday. Last year, at 33, Reggie Wayne signed a 3-yr. deal worth $5.5M/yr.

What team out there is dying to get their hands on Roddy right now? New England maybe? But we know Belichick wouldn't give up premium draft value for a declining WR like Roddy? Roddy could help out a lot of teams, but not for that sort of value. The reality is that most of the teams that would love to have Roddy, he'd be the No. 2 WR on their team (see Carolina, Baltimore, Seattle, Washington, etc.). The reality is that Roddy's primary value for a lot of teams would be a mentor to some young WR. You'd like to bring him into Cleveland to teach Josh Gordon the ropes, or Oakland for Denarius Moore, or St. Louis for their plethora of young WRs, but you wouldn't give up a #2 pick for what is essentially a player quickly approaching Joe Horn status, would you?

A 2nd round pick is the second most valuable commodity because of the potential long-term value. The Colts gave up a #2 for Vontae Davis, who was 24 at the time and playing a more valuable position: CB. Davis is a definite 1st round talent still in the prime of his career (honestly he really is only starting to hit it now).

Roddy might have 3 more productive years in him for his new team, but really is only guaranteed to have 1. A 2nd round pick is a lock to play 4 years, and if you hit on it, it's potentially a guy that could have 7-10 productive years with your team.

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 Post subject: Re: Who do you want to trade?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:13 pm 
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Fun Gus, I don't always agree with you, but I do now. I think the final four games should be treated like the third preseason game.

Sorry Pudge, I disagree on your trade value. If this was offseason, then yes. With a later trade deadline, I think some teams might be willing to spend more to get to the playoffs.


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 Post subject: Re: Who do you want to trade?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:24 pm 
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If you really want to size up the young guys, especially at WR and TE, wouldn't you want the starting QB throwing to them? Play Ryan unless you are down by 3+ TDs in the 4th quarter.

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 Post subject: Re: Who do you want to trade?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:37 pm 
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SmorgasBorgnine wrote:
If you really want to size up the young guys, especially at WR and TE, wouldn't you want the starting QB throwing to them? Play Ryan unless you are down by 3+ TDs in the 4th quarter.



they are already getting that now. I would use the time to see if Davis could develop into a backup QB or get someone in here who possibly could. Plus, whoever that QB is is going to be able to throw to Roddy and Harry in realtime and not just in preseason with scrubs or scout team WR's.. :ninja:

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 Post subject: Re: Who do you want to trade?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:41 pm 
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fun gus wrote:
SmorgasBorgnine wrote:
If you really want to size up the young guys, especially at WR and TE, wouldn't you want the starting QB throwing to them? Play Ryan unless you are down by 3+ TDs in the 4th quarter.



they are already getting that now. I would use the time to see if Davis could develop into a backup QB or get someone in here who possibly could. Plus, whoever that QB is is going to be able to throw to Roddy and Harry in realtime and not just in preseason with scrubs or scout team WR's.. :ninja:


You figure out if a guy is your back up QB during camp and preseason. Last time I checked the Falcons are carrying 2 quarterbacks and 1 of those 2 goes by the name of Dominique Davis indicating the Falcons feel that he is a capable backup.

A player like Matt Ryan you do not bench for any reason outside of injury during the regular season. Atlanta can certainly play with players that don't have a clear hold on starting position (read: almost the entire DL and OL). But, certain players pretty much get every down and only sit if injured (i.e. Matt Ryan, Tony G, Roddy White, Weatherspoon, etc... *ironically most our "don't sit" caliber players are injured).

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 Post subject: Re: Who do you want to trade?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:05 pm 
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dirtybirdnw wrote:
fun gus wrote:
SmorgasBorgnine wrote:
If you really want to size up the young guys, especially at WR and TE, wouldn't you want the starting QB throwing to them? Play Ryan unless you are down by 3+ TDs in the 4th quarter.



they are already getting that now. I would use the time to see if Davis could develop into a backup QB or get someone in here who possibly could. Plus, whoever that QB is is going to be able to throw to Roddy and Harry in realtime and not just in preseason with scrubs or scout team WR's.. :ninja:


You figure out if a guy is your back up QB during camp and preseason. Last time I checked the Falcons are carrying 2 quarterbacks and 1 of those 2 goes by the name of Dominique Davis indicating the Falcons feel that he is a capable backup.

A player like Matt Ryan you do not bench for any reason outside of injury during the regular season. Atlanta can certainly play with players that don't have a clear hold on starting position (read: almost the entire DL and OL). But, certain players pretty much get every down and only sit if injured (i.e. Matt Ryan, Tony G, Roddy White, Weatherspoon, etc... *ironically most our "don't sit" caliber players are injured).



but thats the thing. we really havent 'figured out' if Davis could be a reliable backup in camp and preseason... He hasn't got any time with guys like Roddy, in a real time NFL game, Im thinking if we lose 3 of the next 4, were not being 'competitive' anyways, so why not? I can give you 103,7 million reasons why it's not that bad of an idea :whistle:

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 Post subject: Re: Who do you want to trade?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:43 pm 
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Posts: 26018
Location: North Carolina
Spanky Ham wrote:
Sorry Pudge, I disagree on your trade value. If this was offseason, then yes. With a later trade deadline, I think some teams might be willing to spend more to get to the playoffs.

Well, so much for that…

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foo ... o-patriots

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