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 Post subject: Last night: why I'm still not sold on the Julio trade
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:16 am 
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Tom Brady has a top notch offensive line. He has a bunch of no name receivers, some of which are UDFAs. He's 4-0. The Patriots are just going to get better and better as Tom plays with those young receivers. By the end of the season, they will look like, "the Patriots."

Wide receivers do not make or break football teams. That's the primary reason that I am not sold on the Julio Jones trade. We gave up a lot of potential talent across the team in order to bolster the talent of one position.

I mean let's do the math... Matt Ryan and Julio Jones are on pace for the best seasons EVER at their position for the Falcons. The offense is averaging about 22 points per game, and we're 1-3.

We gave up too much to get Julio. I know that the large majority of the fan base doesn't agree with me, but we are seeing the results. Julio and Ryan are lighting it up, but we're losing. It doesn't really matter how awesome Julio and Ryan are doing if we lose.


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 Post subject: Re: Last night: why I'm still not sold on the Julio trade
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:11 pm 
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Disagree. It's a passing league and it doesn't hurt having a stud on the outside. And make no bones about it, Jones is a stud.

Tom Brady is the exception, not the rule. If you put the majority of today's NFL starters in New England with those wideouts, the Pats are closer to 0-4 and not 4-0.

The Falcons problem isn't the Jones trade, it's defense, or lack of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Last night: why I'm still not sold on the Julio trade
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:16 pm 
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I'm not so sure, Angry, remember that Stafford and Megatron broke records across the board last year and the Lions went what, 4-12? 6-10? This year they are 3-1 and guess what, you haven't heard a peep about those two having gaudy numbers. Still, we are 1-3 because we've lost basically every starter we have on both sides of the ball BUT Matt and Julio, well and Tony but it took him 4 games [preseason, duh!] to get into shape enough to do what he did last night.

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 Post subject: Re: Last night: why I'm still not sold on the Julio trade
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:31 pm 
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Quote:
This year they are 3-1 and guess what, you haven't heard a peep about those two having gaudy numbers.


Stafford is on pace to throw for over 5,000 yards and Megatron is on track for 1200+ yards receiving and 16 td's. Gaudy, maybe not, but pretty impressive never the less.

I do see what you're saying, but my point was we are not losing games because of the Julio trade, which was implied. The team is better IMO...the defense needs work!


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 Post subject: Re: Last night: why I'm still not sold on the Julio trade
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:55 pm 
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Totally agree on the defense, they are a joke... certainly a injury decimated joke, but a joke nonetheless.

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 Post subject: Re: Last night: why I'm still not sold on the Julio trade
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:55 pm 
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I agree. Julio is a great player, but we gave up too much. Well never know, but say we used our second round pick on Torrey smith, and drafted lineman with our first rounder in 11 and 12. I know Torrey smith isn't Julio, but you could make the argument that our team would be better and have more depth. As far as our defense, they aren't very good, but IMO the offense isn't pulling their weight. Yes there have been injuries, but 1 td in 6 redone trips last night is unacceptable. On the bright side, our oline looked better last night with the exception of baker.


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 Post subject: Re: Last night: why I'm still not sold on the Julio trade
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:30 pm 
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I've made this argument before about giving up too much in the Jones trade. So I can't sit here and say that RAP is wrong. It certainly is a compelling argument to be made.

However my new stance is not that it was specifically what we gave up in the Jones trade that killed us, but it was what we gave up in conjunction with the subpar drafting we had in 2009 and 2010, as well as with the picks we did keep in 2011 and 2012, we did not acquire any studs. Dent is an average starter, Rodgers is a quality role player, and maybe Konz is a good center. Unless Holmes and Massaquoi turn it on, the amount of talent that we would have acquired over the course of those 4 years is going to be average.

And guess what happens when you have average drafts, you become an average football team...

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 Post subject: Re: Last night: why I'm still not sold on the Julio trade
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:31 pm 
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I would like to flip this around and say who would the Falcons have taken with those pics. Based on TDs track record, he may have only gotten some average starters. While that might be nice with a team decimated with injuries, I would still prefer an elite player which Julio is.


Edit - Pudge replied while I was talking. I wholeheartedly agree.


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 Post subject: Re: Last night: why I'm still not sold on the Julio trade
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:16 pm 
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I think at the end of the day, the Julio trade didn't matter too much because TD is not the genius that we all thought that he was. That's the reality. The Julio Jones trade is one of two feathers in his cap, the other being Matt Ryan. Outside of those two players, TD has been average at best.

There's another argument to be made... Perhaps TD has drafted some talented individuals, but Mike Smith and company have been unable to develop that talent. Is Mike Smith known as a talent developer? Who has he, "trained up," in his time in the NFL?

Note, I'm not attacking Smith in this case, I'm just presenting this as a possibility.


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 Post subject: Re: Last night: why I'm still not sold on the Julio trade
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:59 pm 
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Well Thomas D. also gave up just a #2 for a Tight-end that has stayed around a long time and Played like he was 25.

Quote:
Yes there have been injuries, but 1 td in 6 redone trips last night is unacceptable. On the bright side, our oline looked better last night with the exception of baker.


Yes we're just rebuilding this year!! I will say Ryan has taken responsibility for his play in the red zone.(In the press conference last night) Yes I like Ryan and think he's an upper tiered Qb. However he'll never be Elite. Now I know we can go to a Super Bowl with Ryan, but he'll never
be in the top of his field.

Neither Qb had much to work with last night, but Brady threw the perfect passes; Brady fired it between William Moore and their receiver. After Ryan hit Julio on the great catch Julio made; then Ryan went 3 & Out. If I really got nitpicking I'd say sometimes Ryan doesn't realize the football enormity of some situations; but again he's very good and comparing him to Brady isn't fair to Ryan!!

Nobody has confused Ryan with Brady but some are acting like he's about to move up. Each week our Offensive line has been playing better just like New Englands receivers.

As far as the Julio trade it was great!! The only ones who think it wasn't are those who always look to find something wrong with the team.

Yes I've said more than once that the anger directed toward Mike Smith should be directed at Thomas D. for average drafts. He's a better than average Gm. but its just amazing to me some just don't understand some years just don't work out like others. Yea right now Thomas D. would be the fall guy; please--- Theirs a reason the best teams aren't always the best!! Its the nature of the game.....

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 Post subject: Re: Last night: why I'm still not sold on the Julio trade
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:12 pm 
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Quote:
Is Mike Smith known as a talent developer? Who has he, "trained up," in his time in the NFL?


As a head coach he's more in charge of developing his teams. I think he's gotten Ryan considerable better without making him play by himself in those first 3 years.

I thought he used Abe smart to keep him as long as we did.

I thought he brought Grimes around really well too. Its just hard to keep Weatherspone, and Roddy improving when their hurt.

Just a thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Last night: why I'm still not sold on the Julio trade
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:41 pm 
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RobertAP wrote:
Who has he, "trained up," in his time in the NFL?

Matt Ryan, Thomas DeCoud, Kroy Biermann, Brent Grimes, Robert McClain, Corey Peters, Jason Snelling, Justin Blalock, Garrett Reynolds,Vance Walker, Stephen Nicholas, Matt Bosher, MIchael Turner, Eric Weems, Harvey Dahl

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 Post subject: Re: Last night: why I'm still not sold on the Julio trade
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:01 am 
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Don't know about DeCoud, or Beirman, Snelling; & Turner would have been about the same I think.

I guess I don't exactly know what "Trained up" means, Blalock was a # 2 and I don't think he plays like it. He does take 11 Blalocks on both sides of the ball and get good results unless you have a tidal wave of injuries like this year.

I still think Steven Jackson would have helped a lot, especially with the line doing a little better.

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