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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:49 pm 
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Twitter is your classic baby with a hand grenade situation...except you really can't take it away from the baby. I think AB probably does care about social media but knows there isn't much he can do about it and I think MR probably was spoken to about how to handle Vick but it didn't take much coaching. He just gets it. He's your basic Eagle Scout personality. All this social media stuff is a real problem for control freaks like parents and football coaches but it's hard to stop an ass from braying in the town square so you just pretty much let him bray and live with the fall out. Roddy will be making mindless tweets and hollow apologies until he's out of the league....at which point he will probably continue making the tweets but not the fake apologies. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:00 pm 
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backnblack wrote:
Twitter is your classic baby with a hand grenade situation...except you really can't take it away from the baby. I think AB probably does care about social media but knows there isn't much he can do about it and I think MR probably was spoken to about how to handle Vick but it didn't take much coaching. He just gets it. He's your basic Eagle Scout personality. All this social media stuff is a real problem for control freaks like parents and football coaches but it's hard to stop an ass from braying in the town square so you just pretty much let him bray and live with the fall out. Roddy will be making mindless tweets and hollow apologies until he's out of the league....at which point he will probably continue making the tweets but not the fake apologies. :lol:

:lol: :clap:

"you really can't take it away from the baby"...my question, is, why not? I mean, people who make alot less $$ doing alot more important things are being told every day not to post stuff on social media that could be construed as 'damaging' to the 'company'... Why are athlete's and entertainers 'exempt'? What makes them so much more special then the middle management person at a huge insurance conglomerate who has been told to 'knock it off'? Because they are 'special'? They have a 'special' talent that makes them immune? Look, you guys know how I like to shoot my mouth off, and that I am passionate ( thats a code word for 'jackass'), but you give me 3 million a year? I will happily HIRE someone to post for me. Hell, I might even hire Pudge!

But my Libertarian roots do lead me into a conflict here... I understand not wanting to give up your 'personality' and such, but damn. It's not like these guys are picking up the porta potties after the Jam Band Jamboree for 12 bucks an hour: they are multi millionaires. Why can't they act like it? :ninja:

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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:39 pm 
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Why do restaurants pick up the tab for millionaire celebrities? Why does Gibson give rock stars their Les Pauls? Why does anyone do what they do? Because they can. Case closed.

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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:52 pm 
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backnblack wrote:
Why do restaurants pick up the tab for millionaire celebrities? Why does Gibson give rock stars their Les Pauls? Why does anyone do what they do? Because they can. Case closed.



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:clap:

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I sit correctable. :wink:

BTW, Pudge : when I hit the numbers, you are first on my list for PR.Your gonna have a team full of sharp people keeping me out of trouble.... Im gonna need someone to 'soften my image', I have been told :P

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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:43 am 
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Fun gus, I do think they have people that "monitor" twitter, but in the same sense that you or I "monitor" twitter. They follow all of the players, but they don't have any desire/capacity to stop them from hitting the send button.

As for why athletes/entertainers/etc. are allowed to do whatever they want, well I guess because they represent their own brand, as opposed to a middle manager. And honestly, some middle manager could go on twitter and tweet anything he wants, but probably has to go around his company's back. Why doesn't the same apply to athletes? Well, because in the "real world" the company that employs you, ostensibly owns you. There is a real consequence that if you make them look bad with an absent-minded tweet or facebook post, they can fire you, and they can move on, and you'd be stuck s*** out of luck.

Do you think Roddy faces those same consequences? You think if the team doesn't like Roddy's Zimmerman tweet, he faces threat of being "fired?" Hell no. Could you imagine that press conference, where Arthur Blank tried to explain to the media that Roddy's tweets did more harm to the Falcons brand than the good his 90 catches and 1300 yards did. Just watch the follow-up presser by Stan Kroenke (Rams owner) as they scoop up Roddy for an even higher salary, and talk about how Roddy could tweet about Satanism for all they care, as long as they make the playoffs this year.

I'm sure the team has resources like Jay Adams and Dan Levak (they own the fancy titles of Digital Media Manager & Director, respectively), who if players new to twitter and social media can go and get a crash course from the team, and get help setting things up if they so desire. But I don't think a player has to use said resource, nor would they. Think about this, Adams has 13,400 followers. Levak has 4,400. Roddy has 164,400. If you're new to twitter (e.g. IIRC Tyson Clabo joined last year), who are you more likely to seek out to help you get your "brand" out there given that info? Jay Adams or Roddy?

I think it all just boils down to the fact that in the National Football League, by and large you are treated like professionals, expected to act like professionals, and for the most part when you're not at the team's facilities are largely left to your own devices.

And the carrot/incentive for why that is based around the idea that if you F up, the team will cut you. If you make us look bad, the team will cut you. That keeps 98-99% of the players in line, so that Arthur Blank doesn't have to wast $30-100K in annual salary on somebody that is nagging players about their tweets.

All the resources a player needs are there: player development coordinator, psychiatrists, designated drivers, digital media mavens, etc. But teams tend to think it's 100% of the players responsibility to use those resources.

And where there is similarity between the Falcons and any ol' company is that if you don't take advantages of those resources, they'll move on.

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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:56 am 
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Here's an interesting article about Cam's character:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1436 ... he-nfl-ego

Oh, and here's his PFW scouting report.
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/0 ... ing-report

Quote:
Very disingenuous — has a fake smile, comes off as very scripted and has a selfish, me-first makeup. Always knows where the cameras are and plays to them. Has an enormous ego with a sense of entitlement that continually invites trouble and makes him believe he is above the law — does not command respect from teammates and always will struggle to win a locker room. Only a one-year producer. Lacks accountability, focus and trustworthiness — is not punctual, seeks shortcuts and sets a bad example. Immature and has had issues with authority. Not dependable.


Quote:
However, he always will test the rules, be difficult to manage and lacks the intangibles to win the trust of a locker room. Will require a very strong-willed, demanding coach to live up to his potential and avoid the trappings of fame and fortune, but even the greatest taskmaster will not be able to keep away the drama that is still swirling from a stained Heisman Trophy and littered recruiting trail that Newton left in the SEC. Can provide an initial spark, but will quickly be dissected and contained by NFL defensive coordinators, struggle to sustain success and will not prove worthy of an early investment. An overhyped, high-risk, high-reward selection with a glaring bust factor, Newton is sure to be drafted more highly than he should and could foreclose a risk-taking GM's job and taint a locker room.


BTW, I don't believe that I ever read either of these before today. My opinions of Cam have come from what I have seen from him during games, and from news during game broadcasts. (Fox NFL Sunday and the like) Frankly, I don't pay Cam that much attention at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:59 am 
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Robt, that was a draft profile that has been talked about a pretty good bit by fans and even the media itself especially when it first came out. There may be some truth to it but the general tone is almost like the second banana cheerleader talking about the head cheerleader in HS. We'll see. He has been criticized as a front runner and there is no doubt he is an attention whore. More so than, say, C. Kapernik? Think Cam would be scary with the offensive weapons Matt has in ATL?

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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:57 am 
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Fun gus, here's a good write-up on NFL players on twitter from National Football Post:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP ... -8972.html




As for the original point of this thread. I disagree that Cam Newton's comments about the Falcons were dumb. I think they were misguided, because he probably should have thought about how they were going to be interpreted by fans and media.

But again, I draw the line at the implication that there is a direct connection between Cam Newton's character/leadership/intelligence and his play on the field and/or lack of success.

All one has to do is look at Jay Cutler. No one talked about his lack of maturity in Denver. Then he goes to Chicago, throws 26 picks in his first year and now that's all anybody can talk about is his leadership. Never mind that Cutler has won a higher percentage of games in Chicago the past 4 years than either Eli Manning or Philip Rivers. Despite being an inferior leader to those two, why is he winning more games?

Look at Matt Stafford. When he came out of Georgia, I questioned whether he had the high intangibles of a top QB prospect. During his rookie year, he showed a lot of toughness separating his non-throwing shoulder late in a game, returning to the game to make a game-winning play before exiting again. That seemed to suggest he had leadership, putting his body on the line for his team. But guess what? Matt Stafford was terrible last year. His mechanics were some of the worst I've ever seen from a QB, and would make Brett Favre blush. And when asked about them, Stafford essentially said it wasn't a big deal.

So what sort of leader is Stafford? The guy that will sacrifice his long-term health for the team, or the sort of guy that doesn't take responsibility for his shortcomings? Which one are you going to use to argue to suggest how Stafford's career will play out. I'm betting since they are coming off a 4-12 season, you are leaning towards the latter. And if the Lions go 9-7 in 2013, then you'll probably dismiss that and go with the former.

Look again, I'm not saying that Cam Newton isn't immature. But the suggestion that immaturity is impacting his team's ability to win games currently and/or will moving forward IMO is simply not true or at the least very much overstated.

Jay Cutler has been described as aloof by most, yet he's been just as close to going to a Super Bowl as Matt Ryan. That aloofness isn't stopping the Bears from being more successful. Terrible OL play and the lack of weapons at WR hurt the Bears more than anything last year, and yet Cutler still managed to win 10 games.

Stafford is hurt by the fact that he plays in an offense that isn't designed to suit him. Where he throws the ball about 200 more times than he should, and a defense that is undisciplined because the coaching staff doesn't preach discipline.

You put Mike Smith on either of those sidelines, and Thomas Dimitroff in the front office, and you'd be shocked how much things would change. And while the QB is no different than he was before, your perception of him drastically changes.

Cam Newton's overblown ego and poor response to losing now gets morphed in confidence and an unquenching will to win. All simply because you are slightly better coached and start to draft better, not because Cam Newton is any more mature than he was the day before.

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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:50 am 
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Pudge wrote:
Fun gus, here's a good write-up on NFL players on twitter from National Football Post:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP ... -8972.html

.



interesting article Pudge...This quote made me think "Officials from a number of teams, agents, even players themselves, acknowledge that there is a dilemma, but agree that dealing with it is a dicey pursuit. It seems to be a battleground where no one wants to fire a shot, but also one in which there likely will be a few more casualties before there is any action taken."

This tells me that the 'reactive' nature of the NFL wont really address this until something really really bad happens. At some point, an NFL player is going to 'tweet' how he is gonna 'take out so and so's legs', and then level a cheap shot ( or something similar) to where the usual 'mea culpa' will no longer exist. THEN, the league will address the problem. That's how I think it will play out :ninja:

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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:41 pm 
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Here's another way of thinking about RobertAP...


Let's say we go back and stop Cam Newton from making his "entertainer and icon" comments. Let's say Nolan Nawrocki writes a glowing review of him in PFW's draft preview. Let's say that he doesn't piss of the AFC veterans at the Pro Bowl last year. Let's say that he doesn't celebrate down 16 points against the Giants. Let's say that he doesn't pout and call a reporter sweetheart following another loss. Let's say he doesn't make the comments about still being a fan of the Falcons.

What has changed? How many more games have the Panthers won over the past 2 years because those events did not occur? How many more games would you expect the Panthers to win in 2013? DO they go from a 6 or 7-win team (which appears to be close to the consensus opinion on them) to one that now is a 9 or 10-win team, because of the incidents not occurring?

Do they lose to the Giants in Week 3 because Cam is celebrating and pouting, or because the Panthers defense let a no-name RB (Andre Brown) run for 113 yards, and a No. 4 WR (Ramses Barden) go for 138 yards on them?

Do they sweep the 2012 Falcons because Cam Newton is more mature? Or did they not sweep the Falcons because in Week 4 Ron Rivera made a bad coaching decision to not go for it on 4th & 1, and Haruki Nakamura pulled a Haruki Nakamura and blew a coverage to Roddy in the last seconds?

Did they lose to the Seahawks the following week because Cam lacked maturity, or was it because Cam struggled with his accuracy (if more maturity leads to more accuracy, then you've solved a puzzle that NFL coaches/GMs have been trying to solve for decades, someone give Mike Munchak and Rex Ryan a holler!). Did his lack of maturity cause DeAngelo Williams to fumble in the 3rd quarter with the lead and allow the Seahawks to go down the field and turn that into 7 points? And did that lack of maturity lead to Cam missing a wide open Ben Hartsock in the endzone at the end of the game (again on an inaccurate pass)?

You change the outcomes of a handful of plays, and the Panthers are potentially in the playoffs. And Cam isn't pouting after losses, he's getting praised and applauded for his toughness, moxy, and clutch ability.

Does Cam need to get better? Absolutely. Again, I'm not trying to absolve him of blame for the Panthers struggles. But your argument seems to center that Cam's questionable character/maturity/intelligence is what is currently holding him back from being a Top QB, and will continue to do so going forward unless he changes those things. And that IMO is pure BS. What is holding him back from being a Top QB is winning.

5 of the Panthers first 6 losses last year came in 1-score games. All games that the Panthers had a legit chance of winning at the end. And if you take half those losses, change 1 or 2 plays in each of them, they become wins, and now the Panthers are 10-6 and we're not having this conversation. Instead of the fearsome foursome (Luck, RG3, Wilson, Kaepernick), it's a fearsome fivesome with Newton added to the mix that everybody is talking about going into this year as the greatest things to ever happen to the human race.

But as I've argued time and time again on this forum over the past 3+ years, winning is not about an individual QB, it's about an entire team. From the GM to the coach to the assistants to the QB to the offense to the defense and special teams.

It's no different than the flak that Ryan receives from some fans here. People look at the NFC title game, and see Ryan's fumble as the thing that cost us the game. And they aren't wrong. But instead of focusing on a player that had an excellent game, and basically was outstanding and executed on 65 of the 67 plays he was on the field, they should instead be focused on the guys on defense that were only excellent on maybe 8 of the 67 plays they were on the field. IMO, it's unrealistic to expect/ask more from Ryan.

Is Cam Newton at that level? No, he's probably closer to being outstanding for 30 of the 67 plays he's on the field. But he's a young QB, and the idea that he should be more than that, considering his lack of experience and the offense he's asked to play in, IMO it's just as unrealistic to expect/ask more of him.

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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:08 pm 
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Pudge, we're talking about two different things here... Winning, and attitude. Cam Newton is perfectly capable of helping his team to win. So is Michael Vick. But at the end of the day, they both have some issues that prevent them from taking their place as some of the best QBs around. Cam has demonstrated that he's capable of being a top notch passer in this league. I believe that though his coaches and team mates bear some of the burden for him not doing that consistently, his own attitude is responsible for a lot of it as well. Do you honestly believe that if he wasn't such an ego-maniac, things wouldn't be a bit different for the Panthers? Would they be NFC south champs? Probably not. But there's a good chance that they would be a better team if Cam was more of a team player and less of a diva.

And Vick was in a similar situation here in Atlanta. Though Blank was writing blank checks to get talent in here for Vick, everyone always said that our talent level wasn't enough for Vick to succeed. Dan Reeves was no good for Vick. Jim Mora was no good for Vick. Get Vick some receivers that can catch. Blah blah blah. Vick failed because he was all about Vick. Cam is going to fail as long as Cam's ego continues to get the best of him.

As a player, your favorite football team should be the team that you play for. You can't be a fan of one team and a player of another team.


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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:51 pm 
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We're not talking about two different things. Because you keep saying that Cam is an egomaniac. And the reason why you say that is because he doesn't win. As you said, Cam's "antics" irk you because he hasn't earned anything. His Superman shtick is stupid because he hasn't earned the right to celebrate. But this guy has:
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Or this guy:
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And the point I'm trying to illustrate to you, is that winning completely changes your perception of a player, particularly a quarterback. Rodgers and Brady are egomaniacs just as much as Cam, but because their teams win, it's seen as a positive, but if you play on losing teams, then your ego just gets into the way.

And again, I think the critical difference between Vick and Cam is work ethic, not ego. It's subtle, but it's a distinction nonetheless.

And I think another distinction here is the fact that you think what Cam Newton is and what he should be are substantially different from what I believe he is and what he should be.

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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:18 pm 
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Those guys have earned the right because they have won it all. Cam hasn't done squat. Until he does, he should keep his ego in check. Doing otherwise is going to be a detriment to himself and his team.


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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:53 am 
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Rodgers and Brady came to solid orgs that were winning when they got there. Cam came to a flaming sack of crap...like Matt. Cam's got a lot of kid in him. We'll see.

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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:16 pm 
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RobertAP wrote:
Those guys have earned the right because they have won it all. Cam hasn't done squat. Until he does, he should keep his ego in check. Doing otherwise is going to be a detriment to himself and his team.

Which is exactly my point. You think we're talking about two different things. But you're holding the fact that Cam isn't winning against him by manufacturing this attitude excuse of why he's not winning.

We have a fundamental disagreement on what is holding back Cam Newton. You're stuck on this "intangible" thing when I'm really all about tangibles. Matt Ryan isn't successful because of his intangibles, he's successful for very tangible reasons. The intangibles matter, but they are really supplementary/complementary to the tangible qualities that players possess.

In the case of Cam Newton, his mechanics and decision making are two of his biggest weaknesses. His sloppy and inconsistent mechanics are the #1 reason why he struggles with accuracy. And the reason he has sloppy mechanics is because he's not a polished passer. That comes from his past of being more of an athlete. He never was really taught QB mechanics because of his athleticism. Cam's ego doesn't matter there.

The decision making is also linked to his athleticism. Because of his strong arm, he doesn't have to anticipate on throws. He can just sling it and fit it into tight windows. So Cam doesn't process info as quickly as other QBs, particularly a player like Ryan. Ryan can't fit those tight windows, so he has to anticipate throws and windows. He has to process information a beat or two quicker, otherwise the defender is going to close the window. If he didn't do those things he'd be Joey Harrington. Cam has never really experienced this. Not to mention, he's never played in a traditional NFL offense, which didn't ask him to make pre-snap reads until he got to Carolina. He isn't winning before the snap, something Matt Ryan has to do, and has always had that leeway and ability to audible and make those pre-snap reads. He played for Dana Bible at BC, who coordinated NFL offenses (not successfully, but the experience is what matters). Cam Newton's college OC was literally a HS coach (do you recall how you liked to accuse Mularkey of being that?).

Look, Cam Newton wasn't even really allowed to audible until the second half of 2012. Matt Ryan came right out the gates and was able to grasp and run no-huddle and audible in Atlanta: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/1 ... leads.html

And that coupled with the fact that he has a head coach that is clueless when it comes to developing QBs, he's not going to get any help there. Mike Smith is equally clueless, so at face value that isn't a big deal, but unlike Ron Rivera, Mike Smith makes up for it in a lot of other areas. His OC is a former TE (Chudz) and isn't going to teach him the intracacies of the position. Basically all he has is QB coach Mike Shula, who's biggest successes mentoring to date are Jay Fiedler and David Garrard. But because of the team he plays on and the system he plays in where the bread and butter of the offense is the read-option, he's not really being given the opportunity to develop as a QB and passer. The basis of the Panthers offense is utilizing Cam as a runner. Given Newton's development as a passer, that decision is somewhat understandbale.

But long-term it isn't going to work. As Falcon fans we know this first hand with Vick. An offense that is basically built around Vick just running around and making plays, as opposed to trying to polish his mechanics and be a pocket passer. Now Vick did of course improve in those areas, like mechanics, over time in Atlanta. It's practically night and day when you pop in Vick tape in 2002 vs. what you see in 2006. But it still was nothing that he was every great at. And with Vick, his problem was that when the team wanted him to be more of a traditional dropback passer and all the trappings of it, he rejected it. He did those things in November 2005, but because the team went 2-2, he made the decision to "let me be me," and basically stopped listening to the coaches.

I have not seen a single scrap of evidence that indicates Cam Newton has done the same thing or will do the same thing. When the Panthers are out of playoff contention, unlike Vick, Cam doesn't quit on his teammates. I think Cam wants to be a better passer. I think Cam would be willing to work on that aspect of his game if given the right coaching and opportunities to do so. But because they are asking him week in and week out to run the ball 8 times a game as a key part of their offense, that situation isn't conducive to letting him develop there.

If the Panthers want Cam to start to focus more on doing the little things needed to improve his passing ability, then they need to take the focus/emphasis off his running the football. That means a lot less read-option and that means having a running game that can be sustaining on its own. They need to get back to the sort of running team they were in 2009, when both Stewart & DeAngelo had 1000-yard seasons. And the other key thing about that team was that they also had a Top 10 defense. That's the sort of team they need to be building in Carolina. Because you don't want to be a run-first team that can't stop anybody, because you're not going to be doing that much running.

And his ego/attitude has nothing to do with this stuff. Cam's ego is that he wants to win. And when the team doesn't, he doesn't handle it quite as well as he should. But the desire to win is not a negative in my book. Should he control his emotions better when he doesn't? Absolutely. But that's something he did much better over the latter half of last season, so it's certainly not as big a deal as you probably think it is.

Was he arrogant at the Pro Bowl? Did he act like he was a little too big for his britches? Sure. But guess what? That too is not a negative. Eli Manning said he was an elite QB prior to 2011. People said he was crazy. He won a Super Bowl. Joe Flacco said he was the best QB in the league prior to last year and should be paid like it. People said he was crazy, and he won the Super Bowl and for 2 months was the paid like the best QB in the league. And so if Cam Newton thinks he's better than he is then that's NOT a negative with a quarterback. That's a good thing.

If you're going to simply write off Cam as another Vick, that's your prerogative. But I think you're missing a ton of the picture. Could he go that route? Sure. And if Carolina continues on its current path where their owner seems to care more about pinching pennies, and they continue to be poorly coached, then there will be no other way Cam could go.

But they have a new GM, and thanks to the previous GM's propensity for horrible draft-day trades, the current GM was handcuffed a bit in April, as well as their overspending in recent years handcuffed him in free agency (they had to dump $10M to get under the cap this off-season). But if Gettleman dumps Rivera, and brings in a coach that has a real long-term plan for Newton, particularly someone with experience rather than trying to find the best guy that will work for under $3M/yr. salary, but maybe spending to get someone like Ken Whisenhunt or the like, then so be it.

Just like in Atlanta, Vick wasn't in an environment conducive to his success. But there was no template/blueprint for the Falcons to cheat off to know what they were doing. Carolina has no such excuse!

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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:23 pm 
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Pudge, you're contradicting yourself... First you said that the owner is penny pinching, and in the next paragraph, you say that they have overspent. Which is it? Or are you saying that they're penny pinching on coaching, but overspending on players?


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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:46 pm 
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By "overspending" I meant they gave out a ton of bad contracts on the moves they did make. The Panthers had been very frugal in free agency in 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011. They only moves they really made in those years was giving out very bad contracts to their own players.

1. Jake Delhomme - After his 6-turnover game in the playoffs in 2008, the Panthers gave Delhomme a 5-yr. $42 million extension the following off-season. They proceeded to tear up that contract 11 months later by dumping Delhomme and going into 2010 with Jimmy Clausen and Matt Moore.

2. Charles Godfrey - Guaranteed Godfrey, who is largely considered a below average to average starter, $12 million over 5 yrs, as part of a deal worth $28.7M. It's a heavily backloaded deal, and more than likely the Panthers will be forced to cut Godfrey after this season after 3 years.

3. James Anderson - Similar to Godfrey deal, gave Anderson a 5-yr. $22M extension following the lockout in 2011. After a strong 2010 season, Anderson had 2 mediocre years in Carolina before getting axed.

Others illustrated here: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/840 ... etent-best

Not to mention between 2008-11, almost none of the FAs the Panthers did bring in from outside teams really did much of anything. Tyler Brayton was decent for a couple seasons. Jeremy Shockey did OK for 1 yr. Greg Olsen was a very good trade, but basically only their best veteran off-season acquisitions of the past five years would be Olsen, Brayton, Mike Tolbert, and a decrepit Muhsin Muhammad.

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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:47 pm 
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Granted, they've made some bad moves... But bad moves != penny pinching. If your cap is screwed, it's screwed. Not much you can do. That said, their cap should start to free up when Cam hits his prime, which will let them go out and make some more mistakes.


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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:58 pm 
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http://deadspin.com/leaked-nfl-document ... ol-5988893

Look, I'm probably biased. But I think the Panthers not firing Ron Rivera after last season is an example of frugality. I know the 5-1 record down the stretch makes a lot of people think that Rivera got his act together, but IMO, the Panthers could have easily been a team that started the season 5-1 rather than 1-5 if Rivera was a good coach.

The fact that they opted to keep Rivera at his $2.8M/yr. salary, as opposed to cleaning house and allowing Dave Gettleman to hire his own new coach IMO implies that ownership is more concerned with cutting costs than winning. Richardson is 77 and probably doesn't have a ton fo time left on his earth. He needs to have a much greater sense of urgency, and IMO for the life of me I can't see how anybody thinks that Rivera is the guy to instill that. That team has looked absolutely lost ever since he got there, and they finally showed some life late last year when they basically stopped doing the things that Rivera had done for the previous 1.5 seasons.

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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:45 pm 
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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--carol ... mmate.html

It took spending 2 years in prison, and 1 year "humbling himself" on a grand media tour before Michael Vick was willing to admit he was a bad teammate.

Cam did it after one year.

Cam Newton IS NOT Michael Vick.

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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:57 pm 
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Pudge wrote:

It took spending 2 years in prison, and 1 year "humbling himself" on a grand media tour before Michael Vick was willing to [try to make money off the perspective that he saw] he was a bad teammate.



Fixed that for you.


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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:00 am 
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He is not Michael Vick. But he does have some significant similarities. Going back to the OP, as a quarterback in the NFL, your favorite team is the team that you're playing for. You don't entertain the notion that you're rooting for another team, especially a divisional rival. As long as things like this keep coming up, my thoughts on Cam Newton won't change. I believe that he's a me-first player. Kudos to him for showing some level of humility after his rookie year, but there's still a lot more room for improvement. Maybe he will make those strides as time goes on. In my experience, people who are that out of touch don't often make enough of a change to make a difference. We shall see. I hope that you are rewarded for your support.


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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:54 am 
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He didn't say the Falcons were his favorite team. This is a non-story if there ever was one. Laughable that you consider this a "negative" when it comes to Cam. It is the most meaningless thing that has ever happened to a professional athlete.

Let's say tomorrow you were hired to clean the toilets of the New Orleans Saints. Would you then stop caring about the Falcons? And before your response is being a janitor and being a QB for a team are completely different, they really aren't.

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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:23 pm 
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I'm going to respectfully bow out of this thread. We're obviously not going to change each other's minds, and I'd prefer not to get to the point that we're taking pot shots at one another over Cam Newton. Till the next disagreement... :beef:


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 Post subject: Re: Cam Newton says he’s still an Atlanta Falcons fan
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:52 am 
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RobertAP wrote:
I'm going to respectfully bow out of this thread. We're obviously not going to change each other's minds, and I'd prefer not to get to the point that we're taking pot shots at one another over Cam Newton. Till the next disagreement... :beef:

Then I'll take the final word...

Clearly you have an "issue" with Cam Newton. What that is borne out of, who knows. Maybe it has something to do with the media hype that came after last season. Maybe it is simply due to the fact that he plays for the Panthers.

You are of course entitled to your opinion. I disagree with it. While I do believe that Cam and Vick share a large number of similarities, IMO at their core they are different players. Cam having grown up watching Vick play in Atlanta, have great early success, and ultimate failure IMO doesn't want to go down that same path. I think Cam wants to be a passer, an essential trait that Vick never possessed until he got out of prison. And even still at his core, Vick is a runner first and a passer second.

Cam could easily go down that path and your opinion of him may ultimately prove true. But IMO if Newton goes down that path, it won't be because of his "poor, egomaniacal attitude" as you put it. It'll be IMO because of the "losing environment" he finds himself in Carolina.

Quarterbacks do not develop in a vacuum. I have made numerous past arguments that Vick first and foremost failed himself with his attitude and lack of work ethic. But I do not concede that did him in on its own. Like Newton, Vick had a subpar environment during his first 6 years in Atlanta. Even though he had the right coach (Dan Reeves) in many people's eyes earlier on, he had the wrong GM (Dan Reeves). And then when they upgraded the GM by hiring Rich McKay, they downgraded the coach with Jim Mora. And while I do think Vick's attitude regardless would have made it very difficult to win championships even if he had the right environment around him (evidenced by Vick already starting to pull away from Reeves in 2003), I certainly believe it would have at least led to more consistent success, which could have potentially grown into something else.

You feel his comments about rooting for the Falcons is just another symptom of "Why Cam Newton is Clueless." When I see it as nothing more than what it is, an innocuous comment that has nothing to do with anything. It's no more damaging than Colin Kaepernick's decision to wear the hat of another team. That had nothing to do with football, yet it created a firestorm among the media and the 49ers fan base. It's as meaningless as whether or not you opt to wear boxers or briefs. A minor fashion faux pas that no impact whatsoever on the football field. Just like Cam Newton's decision to not turn his back on the team he grew up watching and apparently loving. How does it affect his play on the field? I don't think it does at all because again we differ in that I see very tangible issues (such as mechanics/decision making) on the field that effect Newton's play, not some intangible quality that comes from having "too big an ego."

IMO, Cam Newton isn't a perfect a QB. He's a highly-talented one that has the potential to be a franchise QB. But the thing that is holding him back is not his attitude, but it's the team and organization around him.

All one has to do is look at another NFC South team: the Tampa Bay Buccaneers to see it in action. Josh Freeman has the resources/pieces around him to be highly successful. He has a running game, he has weapons at WR, he has a good OL, he now has what should be a top secondary, and a young, hungry front 7. He has a competent to good head coach and a competent to good GM. If he can't show the mental fortitude to develop into a more consistent and reliable franchise-caliber QB with those pieces around, that is on him. Greg Schiano isn't asking Freeman to be a world-beater. Just hand the ball off to Doug Martin, and when need be make the necessary throws that a player of his talent and experience shouldn't have major issues making.

Newton doesn't have those things. Carolina isn't devoid of pieces but it's still a far cry from the Bucs. But unlike the Bucs, because of that lack of talent, the Panthers are/have been putting way too much on Newton's plate. The same mistake the Falcons made under Reeves/McKay with Vick, but did not make with Ryan under Smith/Dimitroff.

The Falcons had a clear-cut plan with Turner helming the offense early on, and subsequently adding pieces for Ryan to throw to around him (Douglas, Gonzo, Julio). What has the Panthers plan been? Take one of the rawer top QB prospects we've seen in recent memory and try to win with a read-option based offense, which is about the worst offense you could choose to try to instill discipline to become an NFL passer.

Vick rejected the WCO because it didn't "let him be him." Cam OTOH just wants to win, and I think he'd embrace any offense that allowed that to happen. See the difference?

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