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 Post subject: The REAL Top 100 NFL Players
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:45 pm 
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I'm working on a project for the site, and in the midst of it I gave ratings to many of the players in the league. And from that here are the players that are what truly are the Top 100 players in the league. Think of it along the lines of if you were on the playground and picking sides and you basically were picking the players that you wanted to put on your 2013 squad.

1- QB Aaron Rodgers (Packers)
2- QB Tom Brady (Patriots)
3- QB Drew Brees (Saints)
4- QB Peyton Manning (Broncos)
5- OLB Von Miller (Broncos)
6- DE J.J. Watt (Texans)
7- QB Ben Roethlisberger (Steelers)
8- WR Calvin Johnson (Lions)
9- DE DeMarcus Ware (Cowboys)
10- ILB Patrick Willis (49ers)
11- QB Eli Manning (Giants)
12- QB Matt Ryan (Falcons)
13- RB Adrian Peterson (Vikings)
14- WR Larry Fitzgerald (Cardinals)
15- OLB Clay Matthews (Packers)
16- OT Joe Thomas (Browns)
17- QB Joe Flacco (Ravens)
18- TE Rob Gronkowski (Patriots)
19- OT Ryan Clady (Broncos)
20- OG Carl Nicks (Buccaneers)
21- OC Nick Mangold (Jets)
22- QB Jay Cutler (Bears)
23- QB Andrew Luck (Colts)
24- DE Cameron Wake (Dolphins)
25- WR Andre Johnson (Texans)
26- WR A.J. Green (Bengals)
27- QB Tony Romo (Cowboys)
28- WR Steve Smith (Panthers)
29- WR Julio Jones (Falcons)
30- WR Demaryius Thomas (Broncos)
31- TE Tony Gonzalez (Falcons)
32- OT Andrew Whitworth (Bengals)
33- DT Geno Atkins (Bengals)
34- OG Logan Mankins (Patriots)
35- QB Philip Rivers (Chargers)
36- DT Vince Wilfork (Patriots)
37- DE Jason Pierre-Paul (Giants)
38- OLB Aldon Smith (49ers)
39- CB Darrelle Revis (Buccaneers)
40- DT Ndamukong Suh (Lions)
41- CB Richard Sherman (Seahawks)
42- WR Roddy White (Falcons)
43- WR Brandon Marshall (Bears)
44- ILB Sean Lee (Cowboys)
45- OG Mike Iupati (49ers)
46- TE Jimmy Graham (Saints)
47- OT Jason Peters (Eagles)
48- QB Matthew Stafford (Lions)
49- QB Cam Newton (Panthers)
50- QB Robert Griffin (Redskins)
51- RB Arian Foster (Texans)
52- DE Justin Smith (49ers)
53- RB C.J. Spiller (Bills)
54- CB Patrick Peterson (Cardinals)
55- OT Duane Brown (Texans)
56- WR Reggie Wayne (Colts)
57- DT Haloti Ngata (Ravens)
58- OG Josh Sitton (Packers)
59- TE Jason Witten (Cowboys)
60- CB Brandon Flowers (Chiefs)
61- S Earl Thomas (Seahawks)
62- ILB Brian Cushing (Texans)
63- QB Russell Wilson (Seahawks)
64- QB Colin Kaepernick (49ers)
65- RB Jamaal Charles (Chiefs)
66- DE Jared Allen (Vikings)
67- DE Julius Peppers (Bears)
68- RB Ray Rice (Ravens)
69- OLB Brian Orakpo (Redskins)
70- OG Marshal Yanda (Ravens)
71- OG Jahri Evans (Saints)
72- TE Vernon Davis (49ers)
73- WR Vincent Jackson (Buccaneers)
74- DT Gerald McCoy (Buccaneers)
75- DE Calais Campbell (Cardinals)
76- DE Terrell Suggs (Ravens)
77- DE Charles Johnson (Panthers)
78- DE Mario Williams (Bills)
79- OT Jake Long (Rams)
80- WR Torrey Smith (Ravens)
81- WR Dez Bryant (Cowboys)
82- QB Matt Schaub (Texans)
83- ILB Navorro Bowman (49ers)
84- CB Joe Haden (Browns)
85- S Eric Weddle (Chargers)
86- DT Marcell Dareus (Bills)
87- DE Chris Clemons (Seahawks)
88- RB LeSean McCoy (Eagles)
89- WR Marques Colston (Saints)
90- WR Hakeem Nicks (Giants)
91- WR Wes Welker (Broncos)
92- OT Eugene Monroe (Jaguars)
93- OT D'Brickashaw Ferguson (Jets)
94- OC Alex Mack (Browns)
95- WR Percy Harvin (Seahawks)
96- TE Antonio Gates (Chargers)
97- QB Sam Bradford (Rams)
98- ILB Derrick Johnson (Chiefs)
99- ILB Lawrence Timmons (Steelers)
100- CB Charles Tillman (Bears)


Asante would have been ranked 103 BTW.

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 Post subject: Re: The REAL Top 100 NFL Players
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:30 pm 
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Every time I see some group "vote" for the best, the result is usually a travesty. Major QBs are missing from the NFL top 100, and the Coaches top 20 .. how Bill Walsh is the second best coach of all time, I don't know. Chuck Noll, for one, has a better claim than Walsh does, and it's hard for me to rate Paul Brown as less of a coach than Walsh.

I suspect ESPN is so shot through with ex Walsh cronies there is no way they could make an objective ranking of coaches.

Buddy Parker has a coaching record comparable to Walsh's (not as good as, but clearly comparable) and he wasn't even on the list.

Ron Jaworski is ranking all the current QBs. And there, because he telling you what he likes about each QB and why, it's a far better piece of work than ESPN's coaching top 20.

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 Post subject: Re: The REAL Top 100 NFL Players
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:21 am 
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I'll say this in defense of Bill Walsh over say Chuck Knoll, if you look at Knoll's record outside that decade period where Bradshaw & Co. were killing it (i.e. 1972-82), it's not overly impressive.

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 Post subject: Re: The REAL Top 100 NFL Players
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:29 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
I'll say this in defense of Bill Walsh over say Chuck Knoll, if you look at Knoll's record outside that decade period where Bradshaw & Co. were killing it (i.e. 1972-82), it's not overly impressive.


1972-1982 is one more year than Bill Walsh was a NFL head coach.

Outside of coaches like Joe Gibbs and George Halas, most great coaches had a single great QB that won the overwhelming majority of their championships.

Walsh had Montana, Belichick had Brady, Paul Brown had Otto Graham, Landry had Staubach, Lombardi had Starr. Don Shula won all of his with Bob Griese.

It was a remarkably lousy list, prone to pick more modern folks with shorter, high W-L% careers..

Seriously. Is Jimmy Johnson that much better than Buddy Parker?

Arguably, the three best runs in history are Browns from 1950-1955, Lombardis from 1960-1967, and Noll's from 1974-1979. Walsh doesn't have anything to compare.

Deal is, if you go back to 2004 or so, where ESPN had people vote for the best coaches of all time, Bill Walsh was the highest vote getter in the NFL. I think *that's* why he ended up #2 on this list.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/espn25/s ... estcoaches

I will note some inconsistency on ESPN's part, wrt coaches..

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/topcoaches/010518.html

Paul B gets shafted for reasons not relating to his ability to coach. He won so much in his early career he became set in his ways. He became out of step with the times. He tended to be tight fisted and didn't forgive or forget. Paul is probably the reason Mac Speedie isn't in the Hall of Fame. But you have to ask yourself, if best coach a popularity contest? Or is it not?

For me, there are 4-5 coaches you could reasonably claim are BOAT, and those are Lombardi, Brown, Halas, Shula, and maybe Curly Lambeau. Everyone else is just merely great.

This is way off topic, but that list gets my goat..

D-

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 Post subject: Re: The REAL Top 100 NFL Players
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:53 pm 
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I'm going to go on record and say that Bill Belichick is one of the best of all time. I'm taking nothing away from the other guys mentioned, they were all great head coaches. Belichick's win % is right there with those other guys. He was able to get the Patriots to an 11-5 record with Matt Cassel as his starting QB. He was only the 2nd coach to lead his team to an undefeated regular season. He has 3 superbowls and 5 conference championships to his name. If Belichick had done this with a GM running the draft, then I'd concede that, but Belichick is the one calling the shots when it comes to players. Lastly, Belichick has done what he has done in an era or relative parity compared to when those guys were winning. It will be interesting to see what happens when Brady decides to hang it up.


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 Post subject: Re: The REAL Top 100 NFL Players
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:43 am 
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RobertAP wrote:
I'm going to go on record and say that Bill Belichick is one of the best of all time. I'm taking nothing away from the other guys mentioned, they were all great head coaches. Belichick's win % is right there with those other guys. He was able to get the Patriots to an 11-5 record with Matt Cassel as his starting QB. He was only the 2nd coach to lead his team to an undefeated regular season. He has 3 superbowls and 5 conference championships to his name. If Belichick had done this with a GM running the draft, then I'd concede that, but Belichick is the one calling the shots when it comes to players. Lastly, Belichick has done what he has done in an era or relative parity compared to when those guys were winning. It will be interesting to see what happens when Brady decides to hang it up.


I think Belichick has more of a claim to BOAT than Bill Walsh does. He's clearly the best coach in football from the late 1990s to now. He played longer as a coach, and that matters to me more than overall winning %.

He, like Paul Brown, was fired by Art Modell. Art has a habit of not getting along with great coaches..

5 championship appearances, 3 SB wins, a factor in the playoffs for about 15 years. Heck of a legacy.

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 Post subject: Re: The REAL Top 100 NFL Players
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:54 am 
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dwmyers wrote:
Pudge wrote:
I'll say this in defense of Bill Walsh over say Chuck Knoll, if you look at Knoll's record outside that decade period where Bradshaw & Co. were killing it (i.e. 1972-82), it's not overly impressive.


1972-1982 is one more year than Bill Walsh was a NFL head coach.

Outside of coaches like Joe Gibbs and George Halas, most great coaches had a single great QB that won the overwhelming majority of their championships.

Walsh had Montana, Belichick had Brady, Paul Brown had Otto Graham, Landry had Staubach, Lombardi had Starr. Don Shula won all of his with Bob Griese.

It was a remarkably lousy list, prone to pick more modern folks with shorter, high W-L% careers..

Seriously. Is Jimmy Johnson that much better than Buddy Parker?

Arguably, the three best runs in history are Browns from 1950-1955, Lombardis from 1960-1967, and Noll's from 1974-1979. Walsh doesn't have anything to compare.

Deal is, if you go back to 2004 or so, where ESPN had people vote for the best coaches of all time, Bill Walsh was the highest vote getter in the NFL. I think *that's* why he ended up #2 on this list.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/espn25/s ... estcoaches

I will note some inconsistency on ESPN's part, wrt coaches..

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/topcoaches/010518.html

Paul B gets shafted for reasons not relating to his ability to coach. He won so much in his early career he became set in his ways. He became out of step with the times. He tended to be tight fisted and didn't forgive or forget. Paul is probably the reason Mac Speedie isn't in the Hall of Fame. But you have to ask yourself, if best coach a popularity contest? Or is it not?

For me, there are 4-5 coaches you could reasonably claim are BOAT, and those are Lombardi, Brown, Halas, Shula, and maybe Curly Lambeau. Everyone else is just merely great.

This is way off topic, but that list gets my goat..

D-

I honestly don't have a horse in the race. But just suggesting that Noll coached longer and thus had more time to "sour" his record as opposed to Walsh who did the smart thing and went out on top.

In years where Bradshaw wasn't on his team (let alone years where Bradshaw was either hurt or not playing well), the Steelers had a combined 61-80 record under Noll (1969, 84-91).

Again, I'm not suggesting that Walsh is better than Noll, just playing devil's advocate of why ESPN probably holds him there. Walsh may not have coached a ton of years (10), but it was a great decade-long run. And he does have one of the most prolific coaching trees in NFL history, and his offense is still a staple of the NFL 30 years later. And it probably doesn't hurt that even though Walsh coached his last NFL game 20 years ago, he never walked away from the game like Noll did. And it probably helps him look better than for most of the 20 years since his departure in SF, the 49ers haven't been exceptional, while the Steelers under Cowher and Tomlin haven't missed a beat and are better compared to the Steeler teams of the 80s under Noll.

I can't say much about coaches before my time. I grew up in a Steeler-fan household, so I certainly am not ignorant of the greatness of Noll. But from my eyes, Walsh, Parcells and Belichick are the greatest coaches of my lifespan (since 1983).

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 Post subject: Re: The REAL Top 100 NFL Players
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:04 am 
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RobertAP wrote:
I'm going to go on record and say that Bill Belichick is one of the best of all time. I'm taking nothing away from the other guys mentioned, they were all great head coaches. Belichick's win % is right there with those other guys. He was able to get the Patriots to an 11-5 record with Matt Cassel as his starting QB. He was only the 2nd coach to lead his team to an undefeated regular season. He has 3 superbowls and 5 conference championships to his name. If Belichick had done this with a GM running the draft, then I'd concede that, but Belichick is the one calling the shots when it comes to players. Lastly, Belichick has done what he has done in an era or relative parity compared to when those guys were winning. It will be interesting to see what happens when Brady decides to hang it up.

Hard to argue. The one consistent thing with great coaches is they typically have great franchise QBs. Chicken and egg. But I think the era BB is in makes consistent high caliber play harder than ever. The Pats were decent when he got there unlike the Steelers when Noll arrived or the Packers when Lombardi arrived....or the Falcons when Smith arrived.

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 Post subject: Re: The REAL Top 100 NFL Players
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:29 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
I can't say much about coaches before my time. I grew up in a Steeler-fan household, so I certainly am not ignorant of the greatness of Noll. But from my eyes, Walsh, Parcells and Belichick are the greatest coaches of my lifespan (since 1983).


If you're willing to make the cut at 1980, as opposed to 1983, then I'd say that Walsh, Gibbs, and Belichick are the best in that span. Cutting at '83 throws away one Walsh championship, and makes his championship record equal to that of Seifert (or Jimmy Johnson, for that matter).

Parcells is an interesting case. His notion of how a 3-4 should be played dominates discussions to the point where his 2 gap 3-4 is called the "true" 3-4 and one gaps are consigned to the land of alternatives. Just, the 3-4 is really Bud Wilkinson's 5-2 Oklahoma, and if you go by what Gomer Jones and Bud say (1957 book, "Modern Defensive Football") about their original 5-2, it's largely a 1 gap defense, with a flexed NG, who is the only 2 gapper in the system.

I need to diagram that some day.

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