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 Post subject: The Patriots battle Political Correctness aka Football Jesus
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:09 pm 
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Patriots to sign Tim Tebow

Posted by Michael David Smith on June 10, 2013, 5:10 PM EDT

Tim Tebow’s NFL career is not over.

The New England Patriots will sign Tebow and have him at their minicamp that begins on Tuesday, according to Ed Werder of ESPN.

Although the connection between Patriots coach Bill Belichick and Tebow’s old Florida coach Urban Meyer has led to talk in the past that the Patriots could be interested in giving Tebow a shot, the news still comes as a major surprise. In recent weeks most of the talk surrounding Tebow in the NFL has centered on the idea that Tebow was totally done in the NFL.

There’s still much we don’t know, including whether Tebow will have a shot to compete for the No. 2 quarterback job behind Tom Brady (it should go without saying that Tebow has no chance to start in New England), or whether the Patriots are more interested in taking a look at him at another position and as an occasional wildcat quarterback.

But we do know that Tebow has an NFL home. And the NFL media is about to descend on the Patriots’ minicamp.


Fun Gus note: if I was a praying man, I would pray for Tom Terrific to get an injury, and Tebow to come in and repeat his Denver performance. It would effectively shut up all the 'naysayers' that claim the reason teams pass on him is because of his talent level, and not due to the media 'circus'. Pats do it again. :ninja:

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 Post subject: Re: The Patriots battle Political Correctness aka Football J
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:24 pm 
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http://voices.yahoo.com/five-places-tim ... tml?cat=14


New England Patriots

Signing Tebow as an all-around athlete and playing him at end, in the slot, fullback, special teams, as well as an emergency quarterback, may make sense in New England.

Coach Bill Bellichick likes versatile players and offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels was the leading the Denver Broncos when they made Tebow a first round pick. With Tom Brady on the roster there will be no quarterback controversy, and no pressure to have him take snaps.


8-)

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 Post subject: Re: The Patriots battle Political Correctness aka Football J
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:39 am 
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Nice topic Fun Gus. ;)

The Pats are one of about a half dozen teams where Tebow could have gone and found success. I think Atlanta was another of those teams. I really think that Tebow would have been a great tool for Mike Smith, who also likes versatile players.


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 Post subject: Re: The Patriots battle Political Correctness aka Football J
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:48 am 
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I think that's a great pick-up. I don't consider anything Tim Tebow has done outside of football to be wrong; I'm not convinced he can't be a good QB, or fill in at a few positions. Robert is right, he's too versatile that we could have used him. In fact, he could probably win our second string QB position.

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 Post subject: Re: The Patriots battle Political Correctness aka Football J
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:43 pm 
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Quote:
The Falcons could've used Tebow

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 Post subject: Re: The Patriots battle Political Correctness aka Football J
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:58 pm 
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RobertAP wrote:
Nice topic Fun Gus. ;)

The Pats are one of about a half dozen teams where Tebow could have gone and found success. I think Atlanta was another of those teams. I really think that Tebow would have been a great tool for Mike Smith, who also likes versatile players.



the only two that would have made sense to me would be us and the Pats. pehaps the Ravens. basically Tebow needs to go to a team that has an established QB where there would be no controversy. I might have put the Giants in there, but Eli is too unpredictable, and the NY media would cause problems. Tebow is now safe behind the media Iron Curtain that is Bellichick. The Falcons Filter(tm) would have shielded him too.

Pudge thinks him coming here would have been 'crazy'. :roll: We could have used him as a fullback depth for Ewing, and on special teams. you know who is not crazy? The Patriots.

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 Post subject: Re: The Patriots battle Political Correctness aka Football J
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:34 pm 
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A) Tebow is not going to play other positions. If his workload is divided in New England, at least 90% of it will still be at the QB position. If 10% of his work isn't playing quarterback, it will only be because it's New England. And one of the caveats about being a Patriot is following the Patriot Way, which is to do whatever you're asked to do. That wouldn't have worked in Atlanta.

If you wanted the Falcons to get a new TE, then you would need Tebow to commit 110% to playing that position. That's the only way he could potentially develop at that position.

And if you just wanted a part-time TE/H-back/FB that would also double as a backup QB, then why not just sign a good young part-time TE/H-back/FB like Evan Rodriguez, Dallas Clark, Vonta Leach, Ovie Mughelli, David Thomas, Kellen Winslow, Chris Cooley, Leonard Pope, Travis Beckum, Peyton Hillis, Jackie Battle, and Owen Schmitt, i.e. players that can be that and have minimal learning curve.

B) Tom Brady is one of the few QBs in that league that could handle Tebow's presence. Matt Ryan is not. In 5 years, maybe he could.

C) The Falcons don't need the media frenzy. They don't need to have the next 3 weeks filled with 92% Tim Tebow questions, rather than Steven jackson, Tony Gonzalez, Julio Jones, Asante Samuel, Osi Umenyiora, Sean Weatherspoon, etc. questions.

and most importlantly...

D) Tebow wouldn't work in our offense. We don't have the running game or defense to allow him to be an effective starter if he was to be plugged into the lineup. You do realize that the Broncos while Tebow was the starter had a 59:41 run-pass balance. The Falcons last year had a 37:63 run-pass balance. The last time they had a run-pass balance approaching that was in 2008 with a 55:45. Since then, they haven't run the ball more than on 45.3% of their plays. And that high run-pass balance for the Broncos wasn't because they were running the ball late in games because they were holding the lead. They actually had a run-pass balance of 47:53 in the 4th quarter/OT of Tebow starts in 2011. They were running so much because it was the only way it allowed them to stay in games long enough to be in a position to win it.


Look, I wish Tebow the best in New England. But he's iffy at best there, and his chances of succeeding there are about 50 times greater than they would have been in Atlanta.

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 Post subject: Re: The Patriots battle Political Correctness aka Football J
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:00 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
A) Tebow is not going to play other positions. If his workload is divided in New England, at least 90% of it will still be at the QB position. If 10% of his work isn't playing quarterback, it will only be because it's New England. And one of the caveats about being a Patriot is following the Patriot Way, which is to do whatever you're asked to do. That wouldn't have worked in Atlanta.

If you wanted the Falcons to get a new TE, then you would need Tebow to commit 110% to playing that position. That's the only way he could potentially develop at that position.

And if you just wanted a part-time TE/H-back/FB that would also double as a backup QB, then why not just sign a good young part-time TE/H-back/FB like Evan Rodriguez, Dallas Clark, Vonta Leach, Ovie Mughelli, David Thomas, Kellen Winslow, Chris Cooley, Leonard Pope, Travis Beckum, Peyton Hillis, Jackie Battle, and Owen Schmitt, i.e. players that can be that and have minimal learning curve.

B) Tom Brady is one of the few QBs in that league that could handle Tebow's presence. Matt Ryan is not. In 5 years, maybe he could.

C) The Falcons don't need the media frenzy. They don't need to have the next 3 weeks filled with 92% Tim Tebow questions, rather than Steven jackson, Tony Gonzalez, Julio Jones, Asante Samuel, Osi Umenyiora, Sean Weatherspoon, etc. questions.]



I look forward to Tebow proving you ( and so, so many others ) wrong....again :mrgreen: That is all this guy ever does: prove people wrong. Methinks the reports of Tebow's NFL 'death' once again, are greatly exaggerrated.. :ninja:

point A: we will see about that.

point b: wrong. if Matt Ryan can 'handle' the Falcons post Vick as a rookie, then he most certainly could handle one Tim Tebow after 6 winning seasons with multiple playoff appearances. :snooty:

Point C: all those guys you listed could never be 'asked' (in a pinch) to jump in the QB position. remember a couple months back where I postulated we should get a 3rd QB that could do other things? Well, Tebow makes perfect sense fot that role.. Instead, we spent a 7th round pick on a guy who can only do one thing, has never proven he could even do THAT all the well..And Tebow would actually help special teams. He has proven he is durable in the NFL. could Shillinger line up in the wildcat? No. Can Ewing get a direct snap and throw the ball downfield? Nope. Can Ovie run a screen play? Not likely. Plus with the offense we got setup 3rd and goal scenario's with all our weapons...AND Tebow? Cmon now.

Disagree. There are only ...maybe...3-4 teams were Tebow could go, contribute, and not let the circus affect the team. We are one of those team, so are the Pats..Maybe the Ravens..And maaaaaaybe San Fran. But, that's about it, IMO.

who needs a Heisman/Playoff winner when we got the incredible duo of Ewing/Doege?! Superbowl baby!


The Patriots 3rd string QB:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV2YqyeRB40


OUR 3rd string QB:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYAakLwofJg

:roll:





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*smarter then Pudge :P

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 Post subject: Re: The Patriots battle Political Correctness aka Football J
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:06 pm 
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Let me be clear. I'm not saying Tebow sucks. And I'm not saying Belichick was wrong for signing him.

What I am saying is that the possibility that it was a good move for NEw England doesn't mean that it would have been a similarly good move for the Falcons. That is what I'm talking about.

Unlike the Falcons, the Patriots have an offense that could work with Tebow if he was to play QB, because guess what? The Patriots are actually a highly underrated and very good rushing team. Evidence by the poundings they put on the ground against teams like Denver last year:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/b ... 070nwe.htm

Unlike the Falcons, if Brady goes down and the Patriots have to go to a smashmouth offense, they have shown the capability of doing that. They have a good OL, a RB like Stevan Ridley who unlike Steven Jackson is in the prime of his career, as well as LeGarrette Blount (that trade now looks a little bit more promising in this scenario), Brandon Bolden, and Shane Vereen. They can put 2 TEs on the field and run power, with Gronkowski teaming with either Jake Ballard, Mike Hoomanawanui, or Daniel Fells.

And because the Patriots WRs aren't the strength of their offense due to losing players like Welker, then you don't feel like the players like Donald Jones, Aaron Dobson, Julian Edelman, etc. are going to be demonstrably worse with Tebow in the lineup.

Unlike say in the case of the Falcons with Julio Jones, Roddy, and Gonzo playing with a highly inaccurate QB like Tebow become half as effective, just as Eric Decker & Demaryius Thomas were a year ago. In 2012 (with a good passer), those two were just as good as Julio & Roddy, in 2011, not so much. You've taken the one aspect of this football team that is actually really good and made them 50% less effective.

Can the Falcons play that way? No. Their best blocking TEs are Levine Toilolo and Tommy Gallarda. Their OL is not one that can easily convert into a smashmouth unit, or at least did not do so last year.

Now you probably contend with: "Yes, Pudge that is all well-thought out and logical. But you forget the inherent 'aura' that Tebow has that defies logic!"

And I would tell you that it really doesn't. The reason why the Broncos won all those games with Tebow is because they got good play from their defense and they had an offense that could run the ball. If Tebow was capable of being more of a passer, then the Broncos would have gotten more out of him.

The other factor is that one of the reasons why Tebow "inspired" his teammates to success is because he was replacing a bottom-rung starter in Kyle Orton, who got them off to a 1-4 start. When Orton is gone, now the team "buys in" on Tebow because the alternative is terrible.

In the Falcons case, do you think teammates are going to buy in on Tebow replacing Matt Ryan, and that being an upgrade. No player is going to watch Matt Ryan complete 60 passes in practice and then watch Tebow complete 3 passes and think "Oh yeah, if/when Tebow gets in the game, that's when the magic is going to happen."

The Falcons already have a QB that has good athleticism, questionable accuracy, and sloppy mechanics/footwork. His name is Dominique Davis, who you are a fan of. The Falcons don't need another. And as you know, I've questioned whether the Falcons have what it takes to win with the style of football required if Davis was in the lineup (which is a conservative style).

But you contend, "Tebow has won. Thus he's > Davis." But you don't look at how the Broncos won. Which was being uber-conservative. They tried to not be that. Just look at their playoff game vs. NE, or his game vs. DET that year. When they tried to be a "traditional" passing NFL offense, they usually failed miserably.

You're right, Tebow could work in NE, SF, BAL, etc. because guess what? Those teams can run the football and be conservative offenses. Willis McGahee had a success rate of 47% in 2011. Steven Jackson hasn't had a year with comparable production since 2009.

But of course you're not thinking about these things. You're just looking at it at face value: Tebow won in Denver, so that means he can win in Denver. It's an extremely superficial (and pitiful) argument. But hey Tebow always proves people wrong. Just like Tom Brady always wins in the playoffs. All streaks come to an end. And Tebow's would have done so here in Atlanta.

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 Post subject: Re: The Patriots battle Political Correctness aka Football J
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:24 am 
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fun gus wrote:
point b: wrong. if Matt Ryan can 'handle' the Falcons post Vick as a rookie, then he most certainly could handle one Tim Tebow after 6 winning seasons with multiple playoff appearances. :snooty:

But Ryan never had to deal with Vick personally. Vick was in jail when Ryan was drafted. He got released from prison and lasted as a Falcon for a total of 3 weeks when he became a "free" man (if being under house arrest counts as being free).

He never had to show up at a Falcon practice and see Vick suiting up, and then have in the back of the my mind, "I have to prove myself and make people forget about this bum."

If Tebow is a Falcon, how many times does Matt Ryan have to answer questions about his backup, and what he can teach him, and what he thinks of a player that should have absolutely no presence on the roster. Do you think John Friesz or Jim Sorgi ever forced Tom Brady or Peyton Manning to answer a million questions about them?

It's an ego-driven position. Remember even Brady himself, they traded Drew Bledsoe the minute they could once he had his first title and thus shouldn't have felt any real threat to him from Bledsoe. Brady was still young and thus he did not play with the confidence then that he has now 11 years later. Matt Ryan isn't as resolute as Brady is now, and certainly not when both were entering their 6th years in the NFL.

Look Matt Ryan is about to get a $120 million contract from the Falcons. That's a firm commitment to him. But he also knows that money can go away if he doesn't win big soon. Just like it happened with Bledsoe. Look Bledsoe was the seond $100 million QB in NFL HIstory, back in March 2001 after Favre. And then in April 2002, he was traded to the Bills.

Ryan knows that he has to improve his 1-4 playoff record. And he doesn't need to be distracted from that task by a backup that could threaten him. Even one like Tebow, who as I've laid out won't be effective here. Any backup is a threat. And having to answer any questions about any backup is something he shouldn't be doing.

I'm starting to get the feeling why you so desperately want Tebow in Atlanta is because a tiny part of you wants/thinks he could be that guy, that guy that takes the Falcons to the Promised Land.

The type of backup the Falcons should want is an older veteran with SB experience (e.g. Matt Hasselbeck) that could help tutor Ryan; or a veteran with starting experience and knowledge in the Koetter offense, which will allow Ryan to be able to gleen info from as a sounding board (i.e. David Garrard, Luke McCown, Trent Edwards).

Not someone like Tebow that isolates Ryan in the film room. Because he won't be a resource Ryan can use because he's light years more knowledgeable and better passer than Tebow is, and now Ryan is going to be asked far too many questions about him being the tutor for Tebow. And about other subjects that have nothing to do with the Falcons winning football (e.g. religion as you guys put it that surrounds Tebow).

Tebow ... is not ... good ... for ... Atlanta.

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 Post subject: Re: The Patriots battle Political Correctness aka Football J
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:50 am 
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fun gus wrote:
RobertAP wrote:
Nice topic Fun Gus. ;)

The Pats are one of about a half dozen teams where Tebow could have gone and found success. I think Atlanta was another of those teams. I really think that Tebow would have been a great tool for Mike Smith, who also likes versatile players.



the only two that would have made sense to me would be us and the Pats. pehaps the Ravens. basically Tebow needs to go to a team that has an established QB where there would be no controversy. I might have put the Giants in there, but Eli is too unpredictable, and the NY media would cause problems. Tebow is now safe behind the media Iron Curtain that is Bellichick. The Falcons Filter(tm) would have shielded him too.

Pudge thinks him coming here would have been 'crazy'. :roll: We could have used him as a fullback depth for Ewing, and on special teams. you know who is not crazy? The Patriots.

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I think that he would have worked well for the Pats, the Falcons, the Saints, the 49ers, or (drumroll) the Broncos. (though I know that he probably wouldn't go back there) In all but one of those cases, he would be back a bit on the QB depth chart, but would probably be able to get worked into other positions on offense. He could also sit back and learn the QB spot from a top vet. (with the exception of the 49ers) The Ravens would probably be a decent choice as well, for the above mentioned reasons.


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 Post subject: Re: The Patriots battle Political Correctness aka Football J
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:15 am 
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Pudge wrote:
I'm starting to get the feeling why you so desperately want Tebow in Atlanta is because a tiny part of you wants/thinks he could be that guy, that guy that takes the Falcons to the Promised Land.

The type of backup the Falcons should want is an older veteran with SB experience (e.g. Matt Hasselbeck) that could help tutor Ryan; or a veteran with starting experience and knowledge in the Koetter offense, which will allow Ryan to be able to gleen info from as a sounding board (i.e. David Garrard, Luke McCown, Trent Edwards).

Not someone like Tebow that isolates Ryan in the film room. Because he won't be a resource Ryan can use because he's light years more knowledgeable and better passer than Tebow is, and now Ryan is going to be asked far too many questions about him being the tutor for Tebow. And about other subjects that have nothing to do with the Falcons winning football (e.g. religion as you guys put it that surrounds Tebow).

Tebow ... is not ... good ... for ... Pudge.



and again, you would be wrong. The only thing I care about is a talented guy getting blackballed by the league due to his religious beliefs. The 'team' really doesn't matter. I would have liked him here, because it really does not matter WHO is our QB if Ryan goes down. I do think Tebow would at least be more entertaining then Davis! At the point we lose Ryan for the season, our season is OVER. Ryan does not need a 'tutor' or a seasoned vet at this point as his backup... He needs to BE that tutor. But as long as he is playing somewhere, then I feel better about the sport in general.

as for the 'promised' land if the Pats get a SB ring this year, and Tebow is wearing one, I'll remind you of it occasionnally 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: The Patriots battle Political Correctness aka Football J
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:20 pm 
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RobertAP wrote:
I think that he would have worked well for the Pats, the Falcons, the Saints, the 49ers, or (drumroll) the Broncos. (though I know that he probably wouldn't go back there) In all but one of those cases, he would be back a bit on the QB depth chart, but would probably be able to get worked into other positions on offense. He could also sit back and learn the QB spot from a top vet. (with the exception of the 49ers) The Ravens would probably be a decent choice as well, for the above mentioned reasons.

Listen to Anthony Becht on Tebow playing other positions, particularly Tight end. It's not realistic. This value that you guys speak of Tebow adding because he can play multiple positions is minimal at best.

Check out Becht at the 7-minute mark.

http://www.620wdae.com/player/?station= ... d=23328205

If you want an H-back/TE/fullback then as I said you're better off signing a guy that has actually played those positions over the past 8-10 years of his football-playing career, not some athletic QB that you'd be training to play those positions from scratch.

Again, if you're signing Tebow, it's to play QB. Could you mix him on occasionally at other positions on some trick plays? Yep. But in the end you're going to get as much value from him in that role as the Jets did.

fun gus wrote:
The only thing I care about is a talented guy getting blackballed by the league due to his religious beliefs.

And Tebow isn't being pushed out of hte league because of his religious beliefs. The fact that you think that shows how short-sighted you and others are. He's getting "blackballed" because he's the least accurate QB in the NFL.

Again, the comparison to JaMarcus Russell still stands. Russell completed 48.8% of his passes with his top receivers being Zach MIller, Chaz Schilens, and Louis Muprhy. Tebow couldn't complete 46.5% of his passes to Decker & Thomas. Please tell me you understand that is a big part of this right?

Look, I like Tebow. I think he belongs in the league as a backup because unlike Russell he showed he could win some games and will work hard, but I also think there's very much a buyer's beware. Unless you have an offense that can be a power-rushing attack and also play good defense, there's no point bringing him aboard. Because unlike a developmental prospect like Dominique Davis, Tebow has a lot of other baggage. And no that isn't because of his religion, it's because of his popularity as a player. Now some people may like him because of his religion. He's a distraction. After all, Belichick had to end a presser after 4 minutes because all of the questions were about Tebow, a player that is not even a safe bet to make their roster. Could you imagine if Mike Smith went to a presser last week, and 80 media members had shown up to ask questions about Patrick DiMarco?

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 Post subject: Re: The Patriots battle Political Correctness aka Football J
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:34 pm 
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http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/ ... story.html

Shalise Manza Young wrote:
Somewhere between 80-90 credentialed media were at Gillette Stadium on Tuesday, the first day of the Patriots’ mandatory minicamp, with reporters from CNN, ESPN, NFL Network, USA Today, four of New York’s daily newspapers, and even NPR on hand.

An 80-member press group isn’t out of the norm during the postseason, but it is almost unheard of for a June practice.

But this is Tebowmania, the odd, fervent fascination with a player who is undoubtedly a good human being, but who has much work to do to become a good NFL quarterback.

Everywhere Tebow goes, he is an attraction.
Even as a third-string quarterback, which he is with New England.



It began on Monday night, when news came that the 25-year-old Florida native was signing with New England. NFL-centric Twitter users made Tebow’s name and the Patriots trending topics nationally, as comment after comment about the move was posted.

Hours before the Patriots had officially announced the signing and before he had even been issued a number (he’s No. 5), the team’s online pro shop began selling replica Tebow jerseys at $95 a pop.

And then came Tuesday morning. Around 9:20, the team sent out the e-mail announcing the signing, and 90 minutes later Bill Belichick, whose disdain for most press conferences is well-detailed, walked to the podium on the red level of the press box, surveyed his super-sized audience, and smirked.

Belichick talked for less than nine minutes, about half as long as he typically would, and most of the 32 questions sent his way were specifically about Tebow.

What went into your decision to sign Tebow? How do you plan to use him — what position? Could he be used on special teams or defense? Can you talk about your relationship with him? Will you have an objection to him “Tebowing” if he scores?

On and on it went, with some prototypical Belichick pauses before responding, the clicking of his tongue and pursing of his lips.

By the time that “Tebowing” question came along, Belichick did his best to direct the press conference somewhere else, answering, “I think we’ve already talked enough about him.”

But the Tebow queries continued.

Have you been thinking about signing Tebow for a while? Have you had any conversations with Urban Meyer (Tebow’s coach at Florida) in the last 48 hours? How much does Josh McDaniels’s background with Tebow help — did McDaniels have a part in this decision?

That one drew perhaps the most unintentionally humorous answer of the session from Belichick, who responded, “I don’t know.” As Broncos head coach in 2010, McDaniels made Tebow a first-round draft pick.

A short time later, James called for one more question, Belichick answered, and then walked away from the podium, his deliberate stride taking him to the elevator that would bring him to field level for the start of the day’s practice.

If you think the "mistreatment of Tim Tebow" is about religion, then you're crazy.

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 Post subject: Re: The Patriots battle Political Correctness aka Football J
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:25 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/06/11/tim-tebow-arrives-foxborough-with-media-frenzy-tow/PrydviBzSnPHqFlKBhGIdJ/story.html

Shalise Manza Young wrote:
Somewhere between 80-90 credentialed media were at Gillette Stadium on Tuesday, the first day of the Patriots’ mandatory minicamp, with reporters from CNN, ESPN, NFL Network, USA Today, four of New York’s daily newspapers, and even NPR on hand.

An 80-member press group isn’t out of the norm during the postseason, but it is almost unheard of for a June practice.

But this is Tebowmania, the odd, fervent fascination with a player who is undoubtedly a good human being, but who has much work to do to become a good NFL quarterback.

Everywhere Tebow goes, he is an attraction.
Even as a third-string quarterback, which he is with New England.



It began on Monday night, when news came that the 25-year-old Florida native was signing with New England. NFL-centric Twitter users made Tebow’s name and the Patriots trending topics nationally, as comment after comment about the move was posted.

Hours before the Patriots had officially announced the signing and before he had even been issued a number (he’s No. 5), the team’s online pro shop began selling replica Tebow jerseys at $95 a pop.

And then came Tuesday morning. Around 9:20, the team sent out the e-mail announcing the signing, and 90 minutes later Bill Belichick, whose disdain for most press conferences is well-detailed, walked to the podium on the red level of the press box, surveyed his super-sized audience, and smirked.

Belichick talked for less than nine minutes, about half as long as he typically would, and most of the 32 questions sent his way were specifically about Tebow.

What went into your decision to sign Tebow? How do you plan to use him — what position? Could he be used on special teams or defense? Can you talk about your relationship with him? Will you have an objection to him “Tebowing” if he scores?

On and on it went, with some prototypical Belichick pauses before responding, the clicking of his tongue and pursing of his lips.

By the time that “Tebowing” question came along, Belichick did his best to direct the press conference somewhere else, answering, “I think we’ve already talked enough about him.”

But the Tebow queries continued.

Have you been thinking about signing Tebow for a while? Have you had any conversations with Urban Meyer (Tebow’s coach at Florida) in the last 48 hours? How much does Josh McDaniels’s background with Tebow help — did McDaniels have a part in this decision?

That one drew perhaps the most unintentionally humorous answer of the session from Belichick, who responded, “I don’t know.” As Broncos head coach in 2010, McDaniels made Tebow a first-round draft pick.

A short time later, James called for one more question, Belichick answered, and then walked away from the podium, his deliberate stride taking him to the elevator that would bring him to field level for the start of the day’s practice.

If you think the "mistreatment of Tim Tebow" is about religion, then you're crazy.

Image



Okay, I will bite Pudge. In what way was anything in your article above supporting the claim 'Tebow was mistreated'? In fact, if anyone was 'mistreated', it was Bellichick. And di you see how he 'handled it'? He basically shut them down. They can 'ask' all the questions they want about Tim Tebow, and they can keep going on and on...And it wont make a difference. You know why? Because this 'story' goes away in November. The American Public doesn't have the attention span to 'drive' this story. OctoMom was in the news for about 3 years:where is she now? Oh, occasionally she will 'pop up' in some stupid story, but for the most part she is 'irrelavant'. Honey-Boo-Boo is the current circus attraction. :wink:

And you seem to think Smith and Matt Ryan couldn't handle it in the same manner. Or for that matter, Drew Brees and Sean Payton. If anything, Peyton could call out the 'media is against us' card, and just stop answering those question, or say 'Im not here to talk all day about Tebow. I'll answer a few questions, but after that, Im done. If y'all keep asking me those questions, were done here, and dont let the door hit ya'.

I disagree with you assesment.

As for whether Tim Tebow's Christian Views are 'hurting him', Im not going to argue that point anymore. The guy has the same views as players of better or worse standards, but he is 'singled' out for the media attention. You have to ask yourself...Why? Why does Tebow get 80 people at the presser? Because he is 'good looking'? Or because he has become a polarizing figure due to his religious beliefs? I think that one is pretty self explanatory.

I liken this to the Chik-Fil-A scandal that erupted awhile back. I mean, there was Dan Cathy, running his families business, serving up fried chicken and sweet tea,,,and someone comes along and 'asks' him his views on Gay Marriage. Well what do you 'expect' a Southern religious guy who CLOSES his billion dollar restaurant chain on the Sabbath to say? "I think that idea is FAB-U-LOUS!"? Sweet Vegan Jesus, who couldn't see that coming a mile away?

So what was the result from this 'media created' sh*tstorm? Well, a whole buncha people got thier ass on thier choulders and started huffing and puffing, and denying building permits and scalling them 'haters'. The Greater Decatur Womyns Softball League staged 'kiss ins' at the Emory location. For w little while, the business declined to the bad publicity.

Then, getting pretty fed up with those shananigans, the local Christian Brigade began to support them in spite. So in the end: what happened? Well, they probably after it all evens out, took a tiny financial 'hit' after all is said and done. But they did not lose thier 'core' business. People are still lining up for those damn chicken sammiches today. The game goes on.

And this is exactly what is going to happen with Tebowmania, and the Pats. He aint going to be taking any snaps away from Brady. Unless Brady goes down, the guy will be a utility guy. The odd play here and there, and some special teams, right? By November, they wont remember his name. Some 'other' scandal will take the front page. Mark it down.

Now, you seem to think we couldn't handle Tebowmania, and I disagree.

And, you seem to think that Tebow's religion doesn't factor into his situation, that it's all about statistics, and I also disagree about that.

I guess we will find out soon enough, huh? :hihi: Image

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 Post subject: Re: The Patriots battle Political Correctness aka Football J
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:47 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
Tebow has a lot of other baggage. And no that isn't because of his religion, it's because of his popularity as a player. Now some people may like him because of his religion. He's a distraction.



and...the REASON for his POPULARITY is why, Pudge? Because of his stats? Or his religion?

I think that one answers itself 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: The Patriots battle Political Correctness aka Football J
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:25 pm 
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First of all, yes Tebow's religious views are a factor in all of this. But don't act like they are even close to the biggest factor. As I outlined earlier, Tebow is largely popular because of his success on the football field at Florida. The "polarizing" religious aspect of his "cult" just only fuels the fire more so than it would for a comparable player like Matt Leinart.

But Tebow's polarizing popularity stems more from football than religion. Because again, he was a highly successful collegiate player that had a very unorthodox skillset. And the questions leading up to his being drafted were about whether or not he had the ability to be a successful NFL quarterback, not whether his religion would affect his ability to gain NFL employment. It was whether someone with his mechanics could develop enough to become a consistent passer.

And despite the success he attained in 2011, those questions still remain.
fun gus wrote:
And you seem to think Smith and Matt Ryan couldn't handle it in the same manner.

Could they? Sure, I guess. But the real question is would they? Mike Smith isn't the type to go into a presser and end it abruptly because he is tired of Tebow questions. Belichick has cultivated that reputation over the past decade with his tight-lippedness towards the media. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if many of the huge media contingent kept asking Tebow questions on purpose just so they could poke the bear.

While the Falcons have done an excellent job controlling access to their team in the Dimitroff/Smitty Era, they have cultivated a much more open, transparent atmosphere here in Atlanta. It just doesn't jibe that Smitty would go storming off because he was tired of answering Tebow questions.

One of the points you seem to be missing here, is the idea of whether NFL teams would want to take that on. The point is, why not just avoid that situation all together by not bringing him in?

You have a player that immediately brings a huge amount of media scrutiny and attention, that now comes into your locker room and franchise and sucks a ton of oxygen out of the room. Because now every single player on the roster has to give you their impressions of him. How many Falcon players have been asked about Steven Jackson over the past 2 weeks? 5, maybe? How many Falcon players would be asked about Tim Tebow over the next 2 days if he was signed? Probably 50. Steven Jackson is going to be the 5th most potent weapon on the Falcons offense, while Tim Tebow would be lucky to be the 15th.

So if you're a GM/coach/owner and you ask yourself, "If I'm going to take on that load, what is the upside?"

And the upside is bringing aboard one of the least accurate QBs in NFL history, that won't be able to run your offense. You'll have to completely revamp your offense to try and make him work, and that's basically a shot in the dark. He's not shown he can play the position in any sort of cerebral way, so if he was on the Falcons the no-huddle offense would completely go away. The Falcons would have to move away from the strength of their team that they have spent the past 4 years cultivating (the passing game) from a personnel standpoint, to revert to the most conservative offense possible if Tebow were in the lineup. Not to mention, the idea of him being this Kordell Stewart-esque "slash" player doesn't appear to be overly realistic because Tebow has shown no real inclination to want to be that player.

The only real upside is selling more jerseys, and if you're an owner like Jerry Jones or Woody Johnson, who relishes the attention from the daily media scrutiny of "How is Team XXX going to use Tim Tebow," which is utterly pointless and ultimately fruitless.

That's what I mean when I say religion isn't the culprit. Is it a factor? Sure, it's a tiny factor. But it's not why teams are avoiding Tebow like the plague. Teams just would rather avoid the headache and take their chances on the Colt McCoys, Brady Quinns, Tyrod Taylors, and Dominique Davises of the world as the backups.

IMO, Seattle was the ideal place for Tebow. They run an offense that is about as close to ideal as you can get for Tebow. He would have his favorite target from college in Harvin playing with him. And Pete Carroll is the sort of coach that sort of embraces the extra limelight from bringing in big name players. They brought T.O. to camp last summer after all. Russell Wilson is also openly religious, and has never shied away from competition and unlike many would not see Tebow's addition as an affront to him, but actually as motivation to get better. But they opted to take on Brady Quinn as their No. 2 behind Russell Wilson. Outside them, there are only a handful of teams that is makes a little bit of sense, but the Falcons aren't one of them.

In New England, they have the offensive structure to potentially support Tebow if he was to play. They also have the organizational structure that they can deflect the media scrutiny that comes with Tebow better than anything. They also have a substantial number of Tebow's former teammates in their locker room, which I'm sure helps with chemistry.

The Falcons have none of these things. And you and others are making the assumption that any team with a good coach and good QB could have worked with Tebow, and that's not true at all.

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 Post subject: Re: The Patriots battle Political Correctness aka Football J
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:42 pm 
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Some other brief points...


1. I'm not sure fun gus you are prepared well enough for the possibility that Tim Tebow doesn't even make the Patriots roster. I think as it stands right now, there's at least a 40% chance Tebow is cut before Week 1. This could be another Chad Ochocinco or Albert Haynesworth situation as I've heard others say.

2. You really have to ask yourself as an organization, is inviting the 80 members of the media to a press conference in June OTAs a good idea? That's the issue here keeping Tebow out of the league. All of those reports were proven correct by what happened in New England this week. It's a huge distraction! And if you're any team, let alone the Falcons, are you purposefully inviting that for what could be a marginal upgrade over Dominique Davis? Where's the payoff? The payoff for the Falcons is winning the Super Bowl Do you honestly see Tebow being a significant part of that? So much so that you would wade through the sea of media members, Christian bloggers, Twitter comedians, and other accoutrements to get you a slice of Tebow?

3. And by inviting that distraction, you risk the possibility of mishandling it. Is that worth it? Look, in New England, Belichick can shut down the media. He's been doing it for over a decade. Is Mike Smith capable of doing that? Maybe, but it's an unknown. That's what I mean by could he vs. would he. Do we have enough confidence that Mike Smith possesses such a mastery of media manipulation that he could handle 80 members of the media like Belichick did like a cat playing with a barn of yarn? You risk the possibility that this blows up in your face like it did with the Jets, where GMs are fired and they are now a laughingstock of an organization. Would the Falcons implode if Tebow fell on his face here like the Jets did? No. Of course not. But why invite the possibility, why embrace the chaos? You're a team trying its best to get over the hump, and anything you do that distracts you from that goal, isn't worth your time. Especially when you consider the Falcons an organization, where these gambles haven't consistently paid off lately: e.g. keeping Turner for a year too long, Ray Edwards & Dunta Robinson FA signings.

4. Tebow may be successful in New England. I wouldn't put money on that, but as you've said fun gus, he is constantly proving people wrong. But that potential success doesn't automatically apply to Atlanta. Look we might be the best possible version of Patriots South, but we aren't the Patriots.

5. You don't appreciate what this would do to Matt Ryan and the negative impact it could have. Tebow goes to Brady. There's not a person in the world that invites/ponders/or either forms the beginnings of the question that suggests that Tebow could replace Brady. In Atlanta, that question isn't going to be on the mouths of most people, but it will be on the mouths of some. Tebow replace Ryan? Can Tebow give Atlanta what Ryan can't...a title? See that's why I said that as a team, if the Falcons are going to find a backup, they want to find a veteran with SB experience. Hasselbeck would have been perfect for that. Knows him well from their shared BC days, been in a Super Bowl, and is a super-smart guy that is just like Ryan in that he makes up for his lack of physical tools with being great pre-snap. Or a QB that is also well-versed in Koetter's offense, and can be a nice sounding board for him as they try to expand and mine this offense for all that it is worth. That's where McCown came in, Garrard or Trent Edwards possibly. This team is about to pay Matt Ryan $120 million. They don't need to abandon him by not adding the ideal/best possible pieces to make that investment worth it, and help put a Super Bowl-caliber supporting cast around him, which based on what we last saw from this Falcon team, he does not currently have. Is inviting Tebowmania to your city worth that risk?

Cost/Benefits...They don't work in Atlanta.

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 Post subject: Re: The Patriots battle Political Correctness aka Football J
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:56 pm 
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I am really enjoying you twist yourself into logical pretzels trying to defend your position that Tebow's risk<reward.

Hey we will see, right? Maybe he doesn't even make the team! :lol:

This will be like Grady Jackson with a little bit of Mother Theresa thrown in. I cannot wait..

Likewise, if they cut bait with Tebow, I am gonna claim it was NOT due to his inability to play, but that it was a vast conspiracy to get him out of the league :whistle:

I guess we will see, right Pudge? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: The Patriots battle Political Correctness aka Football J
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:01 am 
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fun gus wrote:
Likewise, if they cut bait with Tebow, I am gonna claim it was NOT due to his inability to play, but that it was a vast conspiracy to get him out of the league :whistle:

I guess we will see, right Pudge? :lol:

OK man. :lol:

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