Thoughts into the Post Season

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Re: Thoughts into the Post Season

Postby fun gus » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:58 am

Pudge wrote:Walker is a similar type of player. The problem is that Walker is not as good at taking on double teams, but one on one vs. a center, he can be a very good power player. You don't need to invest significantly in a NT if you're the Falcons, because you have 2 decent candidates already on the roster that can rotate in an out with that player. It's about maximizing value, and adding another rotational body at NT doesn't add a ton of value..



Im not so sure I agree with this. Is it the contract, or why doesn't anyone think Walker has a chance at being a decent NT, or being good in a rotational role? Pudge, why do you think he would have issues with double teams? I may be wrong here, but I think if it wouldn't break the bank I would keep both Peters and Walker and rotate them. Switching to a new defensive scheme and the additional bulking up is a recipe for injuries. It's always better to have some depth at NT...

Plus, while Ga Tech did run a 4-3 IIRC, Womack would occasionally switch out and used Vance as a NT..And he did pretty good in the ACC taking on double teams as a interior DT. Now I know the NFL is a whole new territory, but I think the two of them could get it done.

This brings back to mind when guys say things like 'Snelling will never cut it in the NFL.." and then that changes to 'Snelling/Rodgers will never be an everydown back.." For the most part, they have done everything you asked them to do. So has Walker and Peters. Peria? Not so much... :ninja:
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Re: Thoughts into the Post Season

Postby Pudge » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:32 am

My recollection of Walker's days at GT was that he was the UT while Darryl Richard was more of the NT. It's not a coincidence that both were drafted in the 7th round in 2009, and Walker went to a 4-3 team and Richard was drafted by a 3-4 team (Patriots).

Watching him on All-22 this year, Walker doesn't handle double teams as well. Peters is not great there, but better than Walker. Walker's strength is getting 1 on 1 vs. a C or undersized OG and then using his power to collapse the pocket. That's exactly what you want in 3-4 NT on 3rd down, but that position's primary value is their ability to control both A gaps on run downs.

The overall point I'm trying to make is that people mistakenly believe the NT is the most important aspect of the 3-4, and it really is not. It may have been once upon a time. But the real difference maker for 3-4 teams is the DE. Most 3-4 teams nowadays go to nickel (or dime in the case of the Texans) with 4-man fronts on passing downs. And most of those teams pull their NT off the field in those situations because most 3-4 NTs are poor pass rushers. The Vince Wilforks of the world are exceedingly rare, and when you do think you find that player, he's usually going to go very high in the draft (see B.J. Raji).

The key for most 3-4 defenses is having that everydown DE that can make impact plays both vs. the run and the pass because he's virtually impossible to block 1 on 1. He's either going to draw double teams which will free up other playmakers, or he'll consistently dominate 1 on 1 for 40-50 snaps a game. These are the types of players that J.J. Watt, Aaron Smith, Richard Seymour, Justin Smith, etc. are. Go back to Bruce Smith in Buffalo, Reggie White in his prime, etc.

If you have this player then you have a very good chance of being a dominant 3-4 defense. Without it, there is very little precedent for being a top-ranked 3-4 defense.

My point is that if the Falcons want to make a full conversion to the 3-4, it first requires them to find this player. Because without it, they don't really have any good 3-4 personnel. And the whole point is to try and excel. And IMHO there's no way the Falcons could excel at being a 3-4 team without that player.

If the Falcons were to acquire this player, then I believe they could certainly live with Corey Peters, Vance Walker, and some other body rotating at nose tackle. Peters may not be the ideal player for that role, but of any DL on this roster, I think he possesses more of a 2-gap skillset than anybody else.

But IMHO, the Falcons should stick with their multiple/hybrid defense. They should be looking for a big disruptive guy on the inside that can play multiple techniques (similar to Babineaux, who played well at both 3 and 5 this year)
"Vincere scis, Hannibal, victoria uti nescis" -- Maharbal, 216 B.C.E.

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Re: Thoughts into the Post Season

Postby dwmyers » Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:03 am

Pudge wrote:But IMHO, the Falcons should stick with their multiple/hybrid defense.


I agree. You don't beat the Peyton Mannings of this world by being plain Jane vanilla.

If you can't confuse the smart QBs/OCs, they'll take you apart with all-purpose "buster" concepts (Levels, Four verticals and packaged plays).

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Re: Thoughts into the Post Season

Postby RobertAP » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:14 pm

The front 7 isn't what confused Manning. What confused Manning (and the others) was disguised coverage. The scheme called for players to cover zones/areas that they were not in position to cover at the snap.

The activity on the defensive line was certainly fun to watch, but as we saw all season, it still didn't produce enough pressure. We have a talent deficiency. Imagine what Nolan can bring to the table with some talent!

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Re: Thoughts into the Post Season

Postby fun gus » Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:43 am

It's early, but why not?

1st pick: DE Datone Jones
2nd pick:if he falls, Eddy Lacy RB, or Joseph Randle
3rd pick: Barrett Jones G/C/OT (if he is still there) or Larry Warford
4th pick: Travis Kelce, TE
4th Round, Compensatory: NT Kwame Geathers
5th pick:Branden Smith, CB
6th pick:Chris Borland, ILB,
7th pick:Dan Giordano, DE,


and, in the 'no chance in hell category'
7th Round, Compensatory: CB/RS Tyrann Mathieu :mrgreen:
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Re: Thoughts into the Post Season

Postby Spanky Ham » Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:12 pm

I am slightly confused. Did I miss something? Where has Nolan said he wants a 3-4? Has Mike Smith ever coached a 3-4?

I believe Nolan said he has coached a 4-3 and 3-4 an equal number of years he has been in the NFL. I think Nolan is going to put his players in the best position to succeed whether that is 3-4, 4-3 or hybrid. To me the smartest thing is staying the course with the 4-3 hybrid. With a lot of teams changing coaches this year, I think there could be some excellent players available in trade or let go. Hell, maybe Mario Williams will be available at half the price of last year. :lol:

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Re: Thoughts into the Post Season

Postby Pudge » Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:14 pm

RobertAP wrote:The front 7 isn't what confused Manning. What confused Manning (and the others) was disguised coverage. The scheme called for players to cover zones/areas that they were not in position to cover at the snap.

The activity on the defensive line was certainly fun to watch, but as we saw all season, it still didn't produce enough pressure. We have a talent deficiency. Imagine what Nolan can bring to the table with some talent!

The front 7 is a big part of their ability to disguise those coverages however. The ability to move Biermann around and use him like a MIKE in a Tampa-2 scheme, dropping DeCoud/Moore into the box as if they are blitzing, etc. All of that is predicated on being able to present multiple fronts to the opposing QB.

I don't have a problem if the Falcons eventually convert to the 3-4, but they are severa players away from being able to run it well. Probably need at least 2 off-seasons, if not 3.
"Vincere scis, Hannibal, victoria uti nescis" -- Maharbal, 216 B.C.E.


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