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 Post subject: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:58 am 
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http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/12/26/ ... -anything/

FLORHAM PARK, N.J. (CBSNewYork/AP) — Tim Tebow said that he never asked out of running Wildcat plays last week, but the Jets’ backup quarterback acknowledges that Rex Ryan may have misunderstood him.

Tebow said on Wednesday that he told Ryan last Tuesday that he was “definitely disappointed” he wasn’t going to be the starting quarterback in place of the benched Mark Sanchez, and added that he told the coach he wanted to play “regular quarterback.”

“I never said, ‘Hey, I don’t want to do anything,’” Tebow said. “That wasn’t the talk at all. He knows that. And everybody on this team knows that I would never not do something if I was asked. That’s what’s disappointing. People saying,‘Oh, you quit, or you didn’t do this.’ That was not it at all. It was just me asking to get an opportunity to play the position I love, which is quarterback. It wasn’t me asking out of anything.”

The former first-round pick said he realized that Ryan might have misinterpreted his comments when he wasn’t in Wildcat packages, and reiterated to the coach last Friday that he would do anything the team asked of him.



“I was definitely disappointed and frustrated, and I let him know that,” the 25-year-old said. “(I) just asked for an opportunity to play quarterback. (I told him that) I would do anything for this team like I have all year, from punt to hands team to catching passes — whatever I could do. He appreciated that. He understood. We have a great relationship, still.”

Tebow, who didn’t play in Sunday’s loss to San Diego, said what bothers him most is that his reputation and character were criticized.

“When people talk about how you play football and how much, that’s one thing,“Tebow said. “That really doesn’t bother me. I think the only thing that’s been disappointing these last few days and frustrating is people saying, ‘Oh, you quit on your team, or you’re not a good teammate.’ For people to not know the situation, and then start to bash your character and then say you’re a phony or you’re a fake or you’re a hypocrite, I think that’s what’s disappointing.

“That’s what’s frustrating. Your character is who you are as a man, and that’s a lot more important. I take that way more seriously than I’ll ever take a football game.”

The ardent Christian, who has been known for his ability to have incredibly thick skin and deflect criticism rather easily, admitted that the constant attacks on his character negatively affected his holiday season.

“You work your whole life to build a reputation,“ Tebow said. “Then people try to bring you down when they don’t understand even what happened. It’s disappointing. You just want to express your side of the story — your character and who you are. You want people to look at what really happened, not what one person said.”

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/12/26/ ... -anything/

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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:59 am 
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Never thought I would feel sorry for this guy, but how much more screwed can he get? They threw the Christian to the media lions...

They don't like Tim because they think he is better than they are.

You see it with good athletes, as poor athletes and non-athletes snicker behind their backs, making cracks about their lack of intelligence or looks.

You see it with good-looking people, who the plain, ugly or plain-ugly make fun of as stupid or witless. (Studies have shown the opposite is true.)

You see it with the very intelligent, as the less intelligent call them nerds, geeks, weaklings or worse.

You see it worst of all with the moral, as the immoral and amoral viciously rip into them for being "all high and mighty" or because "they think they are better than me."

And when someone has looks, athletic ability (at the very least compared to 99.9% of the "fans" out there), brains, a great work ethic and, by all accounts, astounding morality, it drives some people absolutely bats*** crazy.

They will NEVER admit the reason, but they actually hate this guy. They despise everything about him. It's visceral. He represents everything they aren't... everything that they deep down wish they could be but are too lazy to even attempt. And so the fat, lazy, stupid, unattractive, unathletic neverwas fan takes it all out on Tebow.

They don't hate Tebow. They hate themselves... so much they cannot stand it.

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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:19 pm 
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You're just a fat, lazy, hideously ugly, amoral nerd for even suggesting that, Gus.


Rex is a terrible leader. As I've said before, he reminds me of Glanville. He personally craves attention which is not desirous for a HC. It is still a bit hard to imagine why TT was drafted in the first round and why the Jets traded for him. All that to the side, I've always liked him and never understood the disdain he garnered...other than what you point out above. I think the kids call it haterism. These players are so scrutinized it is just crazy and they are so young. I feel sorry for them all in some ways.

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Last edited by backnblack on Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:23 pm 
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backnblack wrote:
You're just a fat, lazy, hideously ugly, amoral nerd for even suggesting that, Gus.


:rofl: :clap: :up:

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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:05 pm 
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The Jets are getting what they deserved they allowed ESPN to camp out and make this a circus. They brought him in and embraced the sideshow that is Tebow. They could have brought in Vince Young or traded for Tavaris Jackson and had players that could have ran the wildcat package with the same results. Tebow will not play any other position because he believes that he is a QB in his heart. When he goes down to Jacksonville and he plays on a team with a horrible defense and he gets his shot, he will lose big and Tebowmania will finally be over.

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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:43 pm 
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The Mattural wrote:
The Jets are getting what they deserved they allowed ESPN to camp out and make this a circus. They brought him in and embraced the sideshow that is Tebow. They could have brought in Vince Young or traded for Tavaris Jackson and had players that could have ran the wildcat package with the same results. Tebow will not play any other position because he believes that he is a QB in his heart. When he goes down to Jacksonville and he plays on a team with a horrible defense and he gets his shot, he will lose big and Tebowmania will finally be over.


I disagree. I have stopped presuming anything about this guy. They said he couldn't take his team to the national championship: he does it twice and wins a Heismann. Then they said he wouldn't get drafted in the first round as a QB and Denver does just that. Then they said he could never be a true NFL QB due to his 'technique', he takes a losing team and they get to the playoffs. Then they said he couldn't beat Big Bem and he destroys them.

Although 'they' did say he would lose to Tom Terrific :wink:

I have no doubt the J E T S are getting what they deserve( insert BnB here) but it's not like they 'embraced' the guy. If Tebow goes to Foxboro, I Gay Ron tee they get use out of this guy. Gay Ron Tee it. They would have him doing things all over the field. Short yardage, Wildcat, TE: they would use him. The Jets put him on the sidelines and destroyed Dirty Sanchez' confidence.

I bet he doesn't even get to Jax. It would be the smart thing to do, which is why they wont do it. :ninja:

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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:19 pm 
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First off him winning the two national championships had more to do with him having 17 future NFL players (not counting Tebow or Cam Newton) on his roster than him throwing passes. Similar to Ken Dorsey dominating during his tenure as the QB of those Miami Hurricane teams. Him being picked in the first round says more about the reason Josh Mcdaniels will never be given control over personnel moves if he is ever a coach again more so than how Tebow defied the odds. He went ahead of guys like Darly Washington, Jerry Hughes, Rob Gronkowski, and T.J. Ward tell me Tebow is a better football player than any of those guys? I believe in the brain trust in NE but what match-up problem does Tebow present he isnt an explosive playmaker, he isnt in the mold of Randle el or Denard Robinson hell he isnt even as explosive as Hines Ward outside of him throwing the ball he probably has the skill set of a FB.

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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:20 pm 
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The Mattural wrote:
First off him winning the two national championships had more to do with him having 17 future NFL players (not counting Tebow or Cam Newton) on his roster than him throwing passes.

Well, you can pretty much make that same claim about every national title winner (Auburn probably the lone exception) in the past decade, especially the SEC teams, so that really is meaningless.

I became a Tebow fan when he publicly stated after their loss to Ole Miss in '08 that he would play better and hold the rest of the team accountable for playing better. And they then ripped off 10 straight wins, most of them in dominant fashion over the rest of the SEC and won that national title that year. Look that shows great maturity and leadership, which is extremely rare to have at such a young age. Typically guys have to grow into that sort of role, and there's probably only a handful of active NFL players that are similar.

He does get a lot of hate for a variety of reasons, the chief of which I believe is our culture has morphed into one of hateration. We hate success. While the long-time saying is people always root for the underdog, part of that is because we like to root against success. We love to tear something down, rather than build it up. Look my moral/spiritual/religious beliefs are a very far cry from what Tebow stands for. But he is an intriguing football player.

The "failure" that was his tenure in New YOrk somewhat surprised me. I thought Rex would "get it" with Tebow, as John Fox appeared to do so. Stop trying to make him into something he's not. Tebow would have brought the style of play that Rex seemed to want in NY, with a strong run-first offense and a good defense.

I don't know where Tebow winds up next year. If it's Jacksonville, then Mularkey & Co. will be smart to embrace "Tebow being Tebow." Just pop on tape of the 2011 Denver Broncos, and that can work.

Are you going to win the Super Bowl playing that way? No, but you can win games. And for the Jaguars (or a similar team), that's all you really need. I doubt there's a Jag ST holder/fan alive that is going to complain about having 3 consecutive 9-7 seasons.

Like I said when Tebow came out, I believe he's capable of being a competent starter in the NFL. Are you going to win Super Bowls with him? Probably not, barring you have the 2000 Ravens/2006 Bears defense playing opposite him.

But similar to here in Atlanta, once you get 3 or 4 winning seasons under you're belt in a row, then I'll start to worry about building whatever it takes to win some championships.

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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:23 pm 
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Is Fun Gus turning into the next PB21?

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R.I.P 2013 season


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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:34 pm 
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Emmitt wrote:
Is Fun Gus turning into the next PB21?

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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:42 pm 
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[quote="Pudge"][
Like I said when Tebow came out, I believe he's capable of being a competent starter in the NFL.[quote]


Pudge, could you clarify? Do you mean 'starting QB' or 'starting fill in the blank'?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1450 ... or-jets-qb

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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:42 pm 
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Here's a long-winded post, so I apologize in advance, but I'll summarize by breaking down how the team(s) that may/may not inherit Tebow can win with him...

fun gus wrote:
Pudge, could you clarify? Do you mean 'starting QB' or 'starting fill in the blank'?

Starting QB.

He's not your traditional QB, but this goes back to the issue I think far too many teams suffer from in the NFL, and it's the hardest aspect of personnel/talent evaluation because so many teams do a poor job of it...

Self-evaluation.

(A) Knowing what you are, (B) knowing what you want to be, and then (C) figuring what are the steps to bridge the two.

The problem is that you can't get to C unless you know what A and B are. This is the biggest weakness IMO of Dimitroff as a GM, but he's probably a lot better than many GMs.

To me, the prime examples of teams that have figured this our are NE and SF. I think the 2-TE offense is really good here because it gives you that formation variability. You can run/pass out of it equally as well because both teams have a very good "traditional" Y tight end (Gronk & Davis) and then a H-back that is capable of performing several different roles (Hernandez and Delanie Walker), both of whom are basically oversized WRs, but can also play FB, H-back, TE, WR, etc. It challenges defenses to figure how are you going to defend them. Do you put a LB, S, or CB on them? How do you treat them? As WRs? Then you gotta play nickel or dime. As TEs? Then you need to play your base personnel. It's going to be interesting in 2013 to see how the Falcons/Nolan will handle this since we'll play them both. It gives you that ability to do a lot of things, such as run power football if the opposing teams tries to go nickel. If they go base, then you can create mismatches when you pass. Unless you have great personnel, then it's nearly impossible to defend.

I'm not super high on Kaepernick's QB ability, but I do think the 49ers have built the ideal environment suited towards his skills. He's a vertical passer, not your typical dropback pocket dinker and dunker that can drive a team down the field. He'll live and die by his ability to challenge downfield. So what do the 49ers do this off-season? We already know with Gore and that O-line, they have a strong run game. You have one of the most explosive TEs in the league in Davis, and Walker is not exactly a slouch either. You go out and get Randy Moss, A.J. Jenkins, Mario Manningham, to add to Michael Crabtree, Ted Ginn, and Kyle WIlliams. Besides Crabtree, what do all of those players have in common? They are fast and at their best when it comes to stretching the field, which plays perfectly into Kaepernick's strengths.

That's a perfect illustration of A, B, and C. When they drafted Kaepernick in the 2nd round, I thought it was a reach. But it's clear that they had the vision that he could/would bring the tools to the table that would fit very well, which is a play-action based vertical offense.

Now, going back to Tebow. And I'll bring up a similar player in Vick. Vick is not a great passer. He's poor at reading defenses and handling blitzes, he's not a consistent pocket passer, or decision maker. He's not that accurate, as he plays with poor anticipation. Knowing these things about him, trying to become a traditional dropback passing attack with him as your QB makes very little sense. Because at a certian point these weaknesses will get exposed as they have in Philly this year.

The problem is that most people in the NFL lack imagination. They want a Brady or Manning or Brees at QB, but have yet to realize that those guys are very few and far between. You could be searching for another 10 years, and there may be only 1 guy that fits that description. And frankly, you have essentially a 1 in 320 chance of getting that guy.

So teams look at a Vick/Tebow, and see they aren't what they want, and say screw that. They aren't going to be championship-caliber QBs. But we can win games with them, which keeps the fans and my owner happy (thus keeps me employed), and hopefully that will buy me enough time in this "Not For Long" league that maybe, just maybe I hit the lottery and find that Andrew Luck or RG3 "savior of the franchise."

So how do I win with Vick/Tebow? Well, I gotta gear my personnel towards him. So I need WRs that can consistently create separation so that the passing windows are wide open for him. In Philly they had that with Jackson & Maclin. Or they need to be really big guys that can go and get the ball like Tebow had in Denver with Demaryius THomas & Eric Decker. If he's not lightning quick or 6-3 at WR, then I don't want his ass. And they need to be able to make big plays, either after the catch (like say Brandon Marshall) or by getting vertical and taking the top off a defense (like Jackson), because our offense is going to be DEVOTED to running the ball. And we need to POUND THE ROCK so that we can get 8 and 9-man boxes, so that Demaryius Thomas/DeSean Jackson can get 1 on 1 opportunities on the outside.

We're going to shorten the game with our ground attack. So I need a good back, preferably several, because you don't want to get into a situation where Willis McGahee gets hurt, and you have to turn to Knowshon Moreno. You want something like Carolina has with Williams/Stewart/Tolbert.

And I gotta have BEEF up front. I need an O-line that can CONSISTENTLY control the line of scrimmage. For a team like Philly, if they get Jason Peters back, move Todd Herremans back to LG, and use your top 5 pick on somebody that can play RT. Atlanta's line ain't gonna cut it. If there's a Justin Blalock on that starting 5, then he better be the 4th or 5th best guy. He can't be the 1st or 2nd best guy, otherwise we're screwed.

And you gotta have a defense that is good enough that you can hold opportunities to under 20 points. We can win 20-17 ball games. But if we have to get to 24 or more points to win, then we're probably screwed.

And so for any team that isn't prepared to do those things, then they have no business going after players like Vick or Tebow.

And the problem that occurred in NY is that they had most of these ingredients, and refused to take advantage of it. :naughty:

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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:42 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
The Mattural wrote:
First off him winning the two national championships had more to do with him having 17 future NFL players (not counting Tebow or Cam Newton) on his roster than him throwing passes.

Well, you can pretty much make that same claim about every national title winner (Auburn probably the lone exception) in the past decade, especially the SEC teams, so that really is meaningless.


Then why is he not treated like the Greg McElroys, Matt Flynns, and Chris Leaks of the world? He was a gimmick player and he was surrounded with superior talent at Florida. He was on a good team in Denver, had the Defense been playing like they were when Tebow went on that run Kyle Orton would have won 10 games.

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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:05 pm 
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The Mattural wrote:
Pudge wrote:
The Mattural wrote:
First off him winning the two national championships had more to do with him having 17 future NFL players (not counting Tebow or Cam Newton) on his roster than him throwing passes.

Well, you can pretty much make that same claim about every national title winner (Auburn probably the lone exception) in the past decade, especially the SEC teams, so that really is meaningless.


Then why is he not treated like the Greg McElroys, Matt Flynns, and Chris Leaks of the world? He was a gimmick player and he was surrounded with superior talent at Florida. He was on a good team in Denver, had the Defense been playing like they were when Tebow went on that run Kyle Orton would have won 10 games.



woulda, coulda,shoulda....Your 'shoulding' all over yourself 8-)

How 'bout DID, The man won the Heismann. THAT wasn't because of his 'team'. You can make the case his two national championships were team acquired, but not the Heismann. Did Kyle Orton do that? No. Steamin' Pyle Orton f*cked it all up, didn't he? He was a Heisman Trophy hopeful until a late 4th quarter Orton fumble was run back for a touchdown, where he lost his starting job and his chances at it... Did Tim Tebow fumble away his Heismann? The answer of course to that is 'no'. Kyle Orton should never even be in the same sentence as Tim Tebow. Tim Tebow's performance against the Steelers showed he could, in fact not only be a viable starter, but can win playoff games as well.

Keep on hatin, though. All the man does is shut people up. I cant wait till he shoves that crow down Merill Hoge's throat, then ask his forgiveness. :pray:

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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:38 pm 
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OK, I am certainly willing to not "hate" on Tebow, but why the love? How long is the list of Heisman winners who couldn't cut it in the NFL? Especially QBs? OK: Kyle Orton isn't really a starting NFL QB . . .so? Tebow played on a very good Denver team last year and still struggled to win. That isn't "hate," that's objective criticism.

My question here is why you seem to (p)raise him so much, especially if part of the reason you do so is related to his Christianity. I don't know you at all Fun Gus, but I don't recall him playing the guitar particularly well. Florida connection? Similar sweaters? Appreciation for his selflessness and humanity?

The effect Tebow has on a lot of people is great. I'm glad he takes the time to brighten kids' days and to commiserate with people who have lost. I really question why these people look to a celebrity (again, especially Christians) instead of to their community and family, but as long as the net result is a positive, I won't 'hate" on anyone's way of coping.

Could he win consistently with a team structured--as Pudge wrote above--to accentuate his play? Possibly, if the rest of the team was good enough. It does require some specialized pieces, and one may argue that going out of your way to try to build this way is harder because it is more of a specialized plan and thus needs more unusual pieces than other teams. One might also argue that the Jets are one of the worst teams to try to do this as their are so bad with personnel decisions.

Again, I'm not trying to hate or insult, and I don't begrudge Tebow his limited success or his chance at playing in the NFL. I just don't see him as being the most practical investment of time or personnel. Better than Sanchize? Yes, but more due to Sanchize's utter failures, not Tebow's ability to turn win in the NFL.

While I can see Tebow's point and feel his frustration, I don't know how anyone expected this NOT to be the outcome in NY this year, him included.


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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:43 pm 
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Hoage certainly pulled no punches, did he? If TT were to wind up in JAX and not be successful people could say, "See?" But, then again, who has been successful in JAX since Mark Brunell? In all honesty, I did not see much of Tim's play last year for Denver but I knew they had a top flight defense (with hour favorite player Keith Brooking at MLB this year) and if they got decent QB play they would be a force. The cases of QBs playing in multiple places and then finally shining somewhere are pretty rare. I think most NFL evaluators are pretty perceptive. I think the problems they saw with Tim in college are probably still problems. He's a great competitor and a great leader but that may not be enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:03 pm 
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From Jenn Engle on FoxSports.com: :beef:

Jenn Engle wrote:
Why can't Tebow play quarterback?
Jen Floyd Engel
The biggest lie circulating about Tim Tebow is not that he is selfish. It is that he cannot play.

Says who? Jets coach Rex Ryan? ESPN talker Merril Hoge?


No, "says" most of the talent evaluators in the NFL.

Jenn Engle wrote:
One is at the helm of the biggest hot mess going in the NFL at the moment, and the other has a thing for Tebow that feels almost uncomfortable. Hoge uses whatever Tebow does, from jogging shirtless to eating a hamburger from a non-grass-fed cow, as an opportunity to bash him as a failure without an ounce of football talent.

Hoge went all in on this recently, actually calling Tebow a “phony” because of talk he had asked out of a couple of Wildcat plays against San Diego and — insert gasp — asked to play quarterback. Like all things Tebow, this story has been blown into a bunch of reproducing 24-hour news cycles with little actual focus on facts.

“I never said, ‘Hey, I don’t want to do anything or I won’t do anything,’ ” Tebow said. “That wasn’t the talk at all. (Ryan) knows that, and everybody on this team knows that. I’d never not done something if I was asked, and I think that’s what’s disappointing about the whole situation, people saying, ‘You quit,’ or ‘You didn’t do this.’ It was not it at all. It was just me asking to get an opportunity to play the position I love.”

And this, somehow, is being used to call Tebow selfish.

A quick word on what I know to be true about being tagged selfish. The word tends to get thrown around when you are infringing on what another person has or what he wants to have. I also have no doubt Tebow is selfish. Almost every great athlete has some form of selfishness. One of the most selfish individuals I ever covered, Michael Irvin, was also one of the best players, teammates and leaders.

He demanded the ball. He always wanted more. He believed in himself.

He also went across the middle. He went to the really hard places on the field where he knew he was going to get hit. He came down with almost everything thrown in his direction. He was one of the last guys to leave the practice field. He helped younger guys.

Now the question about Tebow is whether he has football greatness in him to justify wanting to play quarterback. Or maybe that is not the question at all. Almost every defense I have read about Tebow rightly focuses on how the Jets screwed him while throwing in a disclaimer about how everybody knows he cannot play.

Again I ask: Says who?


Again, I (and bnb) answer: most of the talent evaluators in the NFL; the two that disagree: JMD, widely decried as a talent evaluator, and the NYJ front office, who are clearly awful.

Jenn Engle wrote:
The last time we saw Tebow on a football field for any real amount of time was in the 2012 playoffs — when he led the Denver Broncos to a win against Pittsburgh and a loss to New England. He did this despite Denver having no real use for him and only grudgingly using him.

@merrilhoge Any bronco fan still think they would be better with Tebow? I’ve not heard much noise lately? Curious??

@joshduhamel hey merril. Josh Duhamel here. Wondering why you’re such a jealous bitch about Tebow? He’s 10x the player you were.

What does it say about the state of the Tebow discourse that Josh Duhamel, the hot actor who's married to the non-ex-princess Fergie, is the voice of reason in this football discussion?


Just a bit less than the fact that a sportswriter used this as a justification. Wow. @JennEngel hey jenn. Samedi here. Wondering why you are such a jealous bitch about Merril Hoge? Josh has 10x the informed opinion that you have. (10x0=?)



Jenn Engle wrote:
Almost nobody thinks the Broncos are better off with Tebow instead of Peyton Manning. Almost everybody agrees the Jets screwed Tebow.

They traded for him apparently for a press conference. They had no intention of playing him at quarterback, or really at all. He was supposed to sit there and be pretty. And now people — Hoge, et al — are acting like Tebow is wrong for being disappointed at being treated like football arm candy and for saying so.

He believes he can play quarterback in the NFL. And while Tebow is not Peyton or Tom Brady or even Joe Flacco, he can make a decent case that he deserves a chance ahead of Mark Sanchez. And I am not convinced Tebow cannot play quarterback in this league.

I know, I know, Hoge has seen film.

We all have seen Tebow throw, his struggles.

What I also know was I covered a Cowboys team where coach Bill Parcells tapped Quincy Carter ahead of Chad Hutchinson despite the latter having the prettier throwing motion. What Hutchinson lacked was intangibles, and that mattered to Parcells. He got a QCar-led Cowboys team to the playoffs.

Neither was a great quarterback. That is not the point. The point is that no quarterback can succeed when coaches do not believe in him, especially not a singular talent like Tebow.


Absolutely no one questions Quincy Carter's leadership or character. Especially not his parole board. Or his crashing and burning as an NFL QB. It almost seemed impossible to top the Josh Duhamel reference, but Mrs. Engel actually managed to do it.

Jenn Engle wrote:
He believes he can play in this league. This does not make him selfish.

Hoge and Co. do not believe he can play. And that does not make it so.


Eh? Eh? Eh? Correlation is not causation? Other than parallel structure, these two statements have absolutely no similar logic.

Again, no problem with Tebow, but a real problem with the self-righteous idolaters that are churned up in his wake.


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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:16 pm 
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samedi wrote:
My question here is why you seem to (p)raise him so much, especially if part of the reason you do so is related to his Christianity. I don't know you at all Fun Gus, but I don't recall him playing the guitar particularly well. Florida connection? Similar sweaters? Appreciation for his selflessness and humanity?

The effect Tebow has on a lot of people is great. I'm glad he takes the time to brighten kids' days and to commiserate with people who have lost. I really question why these people look to a celebrity (again, especially Christians) instead of to their community and family, but as long as the net result is a positive, I won't 'hate" on anyone's way of coping..



I certainly do not share his evangelism: I am still persona non grata with the in laws because I never had my boy 'Christened'. Boy, does that get thier knickers in a twist...One thing I am my wife have learned in almost 15 years of marriage is 'pick your battles'. This was where I drew the line. I explained to monster in law that any 'God' that would deny my infant child access to 'Heaven' because I didn't have a 'Church Party' for him is a God I dont want him to know. I'll leave it to your imagination as to how all that played out, but I got my point across. So believe me it aint about his religious beliefs...

I will say I do respect the man because from all accounts he walks the walk. I dont share his views, but I can respect that he puts his $$ and time where his mouth is. He is a shining example to evey NFL player what it is to be truly humbled and generous. He was doing this stuff before he was famous, not like some new NFL star that sets up a 'foundation' as a tax shield..

I have every reason to hate the guy. I married into a 4th generation UGA family. My wife was the only one of 4 women to get a degree from UGA. I once asked her Granny why that was? She looked me right in the eye and in the way that only older folk can laugh at younger ones she said 'oooh, honey. We weren't going to UGA to get an MBA like your wife. We were going to get a 'MRS.'...I stupidly asked what that stood for. She said in her case it meant 50+ years of wedded bliss 8-) Tebow regularly destroyed UGA...

Also, my older bro was once a hot shot high school QB in Ohio in the 80's. Everyone thought he was destined for greatness, and he accepted a scholarship to the Univ of Cincy. It was there one of my illusions of my older brother was shattered: while he was a good enough QB in small town Little Miami HS, he wasn't sh*t in the city. He was a 3rd stringer and never ever saw significant time. When his scholarship went out, he worked 2 jobs to continue Grad School and in the process became my legal guardian so I could be eligible for a grant at the School for Creative and Performing Arts High school ( yes, the FAME school: and yes, it was while they were filming the same tv show in NYC). I took my older brother to the Sugar Bowl along with my nephew a couple years ago. Tim Tebow destroyed them. I knew my older brother was expecting it, but the poor kid was devastated. So that's strike 2.

Then there was the focus on the family ad. Im pretty much pro-choice, but that because I do not have a vagina ( yet). I thought that was pretty unneccesary and a distraction. Strike three.

So, you ask, why do I praise this guy? I guess it is because he has been the target of such vicious, visceral hate for things beyond his control. Hate him for his abortion ad. Hate him for his evenagelism. But dont hate on the guy saying he doesn't 'have what it takes' or that he will 'never be a _____' because everytime that happens he serves up crow with a side of Frankensense and Myhrrr, and gives his Gold to poor starving Phillipino kids.

Look, if he didn't perform so well vs the Steelers, I would write him off. But you cannot overlook that this guy got it done. Might not have been pretty: but history shows Kyle Orton drops the ball in those occasions. That why I tale umbrage at the comparison.

*steps off soapbox now* :ninja:

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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:22 pm 
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Thank you for the explanation. I still don't think that makes him good, just like I don't think Trent Dilfer was good at all, but to each their own.

Thank you for not being Jenn Englel.

Your brother sounds like an amazing guy.


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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:50 pm 
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Then there was the focus on the family ad. Im pretty much pro-choice, but that because I do not have a vagina ( yet).
made me :lol:


The TT thing gets to be like people disagreeing with B Obama's policies being called racist. There are those that just don't think Tim is an NFL caliber QB if he were put in a vacume. NYC probably isn't the best place for the guy and the snot nosed little sister franchise is probably the worst of the two to be attached to. I think most HCs would let Joseph Stalin---or even Mike Vick!---start if they thought they would win games. What Rex has done in NY is kill two QBs with one stone.

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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:25 pm 
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samedi wrote:
Thank you for the explanation. I still don't think that makes him good, just like I don't think Trent Dilfer was good at all, but to each their own.

Thank you for not being Jenn Englel.

Your brother sounds like an amazing guy.



I could never do the things that man did. He remains an inspiration to me: an 'Anti-Dad'. He kinda stepped into the breech, and he is more like Tebow then I could ever be. Im a vindictive, ego driven diva, though. Cest La Vie

An interesting sidenote: I recall 1984: I had my parachute pants on and was spinning on my head at the local mall ,and this year the Bearcats sucked so hard they only won 2 games. 2 freekin games. My older bro was on that squad: but so was Urban Meyer. In the future, this guy would wreak havoc on the SEC and I was clueless. funny, huh?

Doh! :doh:

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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:50 pm 
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If you don't like Tebow, then that's fine. There are plenty of reasons to. But there is a certainly level of hate that I'm referring to that goes beyond the, "Well, I just don't think he's that good a quarterback" feelings.

There are people that actively root against him, want him to crash and burn, not in the typical, "I'm a Chiefs fan and thus I 'hate' whoever QBs the Broncos" type, but the people that hate him because he seems "too good to be true."

The people that think he's disingenuous. Look, I'm like fun gus. Pretty much everything that Tebow "stands for" is on the opposite end of the spectrum of the things I do. But I respect the guy for his beliefs, and contrary to popular belief he's not out there proselytizing. Sure, he was in a pro-life ad. So? Look I'm pro-choice (pretty much for the exact same reason fun gus is), but I'm not going to deny the people on the other side of the street their right to voice their views.

Watching the 2010 draft, I was more excited to see Tebow picked in the 1st round than anything else in that draft. The guy is a lightning rod, always has been, and I relish in watching his story unfold, wherever it ultimately ends. Despite being "Pro-Tebow," I still considered him to be just a 4th round pick. McDaniels was an idiot for taking him in Round 1, and the Jets were idiots for trading for him with no real plan of using him. I'm just hoping for Tim's sake that his 3rd opportunity won't be as bad. Three strikes and all...

And as for building the ideal environment around Tebow, I don't think it's that hard. It's just that when you do have a really good QB, they cover up so many other flaws, which makes people perceive that the "traditional" route is simpler/easier. It's not. Many of the same things you would need to do to succeed with Tebow, e.g. building a good defense and OL, you would likely have to do with any QB if you intend to compete at the highest levels. You don't need those things to win games with a good QB, but if you want to be more than just a playoff contender, and a Super Bowl contender, then you'll likely need those things.

It just goes back to knowing what you are. Take for instance, a team like KC, Arizona, or Cleveland, you already have several of the elements in place to build around a QB like Vick/Tebow. While a team like Jacksonville or Buffalo does not.

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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:00 am 
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It's probably a wash. Just as many folks pull for him because of who he is away from the football field as pull against him for it. My father is not really a very knowledgable NFL fan but he was interested and following TT lastyear and found it exciting and compelling. He also is not an evangelical but just think Tim is a remarkable young man...as do I.

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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:36 am 
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They will NEVER admit the reason, but they actually hate this guy. They despise everything about him. It's visceral. He represents everything they aren't...


Well lets let this simple old man try to make this easy. What some hate is he believes in something!! He really believes in something!!

Now most of us has become lets go along to get along, while Tebow
lets his beliefs known, but I don't see him trying to win over others......

I can certainly understand Tebow being upset if a coach makes it sound like your a poor teammate or whatever, yet I like Rex Ryan probably because he BELIEVES in being a different football coach, he wants it to be Rex against the world. Just like Tebow believes in something perhaps bigger.

As for Tebow's football play, he's won a playoff game. Of course a team could build around him, this is his second year and he isn't playing. Its taken Ryan a full 5 years!!

If Tebow COULDN'T GET IT DONE, he wouldn't generate this publicity. Mike Vick is already talking about his future and who cares?

So Tebow will have to get a chance; then produce. It really doesn't matter what you believe in the NFL you still have to get the job done.

I think Rex is worse than Glanville when it comes to coaching, Glanville has a big mouth; but Rex needs to move around to give a sugar high for a couple of years, and pretty much leave the franchise in shambles when he's gone. I believe Glanville had a decent run in Houston but this isn't Glanville against Ryan.

Its about Tebow believing in something, and some resenting that because they can't.

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 Post subject: Re: Poor Tebow...All this at Christmastime
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:30 am 
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Its about Tebow believing in something, and some resenting that because they can't.


Never heard it put that way.

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