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 Post subject: asante?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:18 am 
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1157 ... muel-trade
It appears that it's become a matter of when, not if, the Philadelphia Eagles will trade talented cornerback Asante Samuel.

And as of Tuesday morning, a new potential landing spot for the 31-year-old has emerged: Atlanta.

According to Fox Sports NFL Insider Jay Glazer, the Eagles and Falcons have had discussions about a trade for Samuel, who has two years left on the six-year pact he signed with Philadelphia during the 2008 offseason.

The Eagles are attempting to unload Samuel because of his hefty contract (roughly $21 million remains on the deal, although none of it is guaranteed) and financial overload at the position, having already committed big money to Nnamdi Asomugha last offseason and preparing to pay Domonique Rodgers-Cromartie after this season.

Multiple teams have appeared interested in Samuel, including the Denver Broncos in recent days.

The asking price remains unclear, but given Philadelphia's desire to move on from the four-time Pro Bowler, it's likely no more than a mid-round draft choice.

The Falcons ranked 20th in passing yards allowed last season, and franchised cornerback Brent Grimes this offseason (he has yet to sign his tender). They also have veteran Dunta Robinson around as a starter, but Samuel would be an upgrade to a team that plays in a division with three other teams that are heavily invested in the passing game.

Atlanta GM Thomas Dimitroff is particularly familiar with Samuel's game, as he was a member of the Patriots' personnel staff when Samuel was selected in the fourth round of the 2003 NFL draft out of Central Florida.

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:41 am 
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I can't see it happening, unless we jettison Robinson. Samuel is 31 and also isn't what he once was. He's also not the best guy to have in the locker room. IMO, the risk is greater than the reward. Pass.


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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:30 pm 
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AngryJohnny51 wrote:
I can't see it happening, unless we jettison Robinson. Samuel is 31 and also isn't what he once was. He's also not the best guy to have in the locker room. IMO, the risk is greater than the reward. Pass.



I would tend to agree. We may just be kicking the tires, or 'sending a message'.

This is purely speculation on my part, but....What 'if' the trial balloon that was floated out there that Grimes 'sat himself' out of the last playoff game turns out to be 'true'? IMO, if your TD and Smith, that is a guy you cant have on your roster no matter how much 'talent' he may possess.

So, as I mentioned awhile back, if it was true, then you dont really have alot of choices. But, one that I postulated was to slap the franchise tag on him and try to get something in return. Maybe they are trying to nab Asante and hoping they can trade Grimes and his 'problems' to some other team.

Curious...I guess we will see soon enough;-)

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:44 pm 
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Yeah I can't see us pullin the triggeron this one. I believe his contract is paying him around 10 mil. this year. For a team being pretty tight against the cap I'm not sure we could afford that. Combine that with some of the other reasons mentioned and just.......................no.


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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:42 pm 
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Yeah, I'm surprised.

Although I think Grimes + Samuel would be the perfect fits for a particular scheme, which features a lot of off man/off zone coverage, which was the hallmark of BVG. Both have excellent ball skills.

The problem is that Samuel really is the anti-Dunta Robinson. He has ball skills second to none, thrives in zone & off coverage, can slant the field because of his ball-hawking skills, but he doesn't tackle (although Dunta did very little tackling last year), and is a diva. Dunta may be a jackass, but no one has ever questioned his work ethic at any point.

If you get Samuel, even for a Day 3 pick, then I'm not sure Robinson can stick around. Unless your plan is to move Grimes to the slot in nickel situations. But I think if you do that then you have to prioritize the pass-rush more because to make that scheme that Samuel fits in work, you need to have guys that can get after the QB.

This would have been a brilliant move had we already gotten Mario Williams and kept John Abraham. But as is, while it's an upgrade, it smacks of the problem that the Falcons are currently plagued with: lack of identity on either side of the ball.

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:32 pm 
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Interesting to note that Grimes signs his tender shortly after word leaks the Falcons are looking at Asante. The big question would be is he really ready to redo his contract to fit on a team? We can't afford his what, $9+ mil this year with our current cap (including Grimes signing), so it makes me wonder if it wasn't really anything more than pressure on Brent.

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:44 pm 
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Picking him up would be just silly.The OL, DL need reworking, Tony and Turner need replacements and we need a 9 mil third CB? Who doesn't tackle (like really doesn't--go back and watch the last TD in the ATL-PHI: Samuel wants no part of Turner)?

I hope it's just leverage on Grimes.


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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:36 pm 
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If this was leverage on Grimes, I think that it worked pretty well. I think the big question now is, will Grimes ink a reasonable multi-year deal with us. Next year he will be 30 and might have trouble landing the kind of contract that he might have been able to get this year. Also, it's kind of rough going out and giving your all if you know that if you get hurt, you're done. Heck, if it's true that Grimes took that last game off to save himself, he might well take the season off if he settles for the tender. If that's the case, nobody wins.


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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:49 pm 
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Quote:
Heck, if it's true that Grimes took that last game off to save himself,


Not a chance. If anyone on the Falcon staff, including the guy who alphabetizes the jock straps thought for one second Grimes shut it down, he wouldn't be anywhere near Flowery Branch.


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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:09 pm 
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AngryJohnny51 wrote:
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Heck, if it's true that Grimes took that last game off to save himself,


Not a chance. If anyone on the Falcon staff, including the guy who alphabetizes the jock straps thought for one second Grimes shut it down, he wouldn't be anywhere near Flowery Branch.



Well, if we sign Asante and trade Grimes for a 3rd round pick, I think that pretty much would end this speculation, right?

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:16 pm 
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fun gus wrote:
AngryJohnny51 wrote:
Quote:
Heck, if it's true that Grimes took that last game off to save himself,


Not a chance. If anyone on the Falcon staff, including the guy who alphabetizes the jock straps thought for one second Grimes shut it down, he wouldn't be anywhere near Flowery Branch.



Well, if we sign Asante and trade Grimes for a 3rd round pick, I think that pretty much would end this speculation, right?


You are correct sir.


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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:34 pm 
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I was listening to Atlanta sports radio today and they said Nolan will use the nickel a lot and could use Dunta in that role mostly. Also mentioned moving him to safety. I personally like getting Asante but not sure how it would work. Guess he would restructure and Grimes would sign a cap friendly deal. Sign that DT that was in here and cut Perry might save money too. Ovid would be gone as well. Anyway I think we could make it work with all three to make a run for it all this year. Then let Turner and Grimes walk after this year helping with cap space and keep Asante and Dunta moving forward. Oh I think Roddy is one soon too. Just a thought though.


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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:15 pm 
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Yeah, if you only have to give up a 5th or 6th round pick for Samuel, it's hard not to be interested. And even if he's a bad fit that doesn't live up to expectations, he's still probably 93% chance of being better/impacting more than anybody you would/could have drafted with said pick.

And even if you could flip Grimes into being a Day 2 draft pick, at the end of the day you still have to reconcile the fact that the team is much more willing to commit long-term with a lesser player in Dunta than in Grimes.

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:45 pm 
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Per Rotoworld: "According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, the hangup to a potential Asante Samuel trade to the Falcons is the cornerback's contract, not compensation for the Eagles. The Falcons' interest hasn't waned after Brent Grimes signed his franchise tender, as the Atlanta Journal-Constitution confirms talks continued on Tuesday. The two sides are believed to have settled on a late-round pick as compensation. Samuel is willing to restructure his contract, but he's balking at a significant paycut for the 2012 season. The Eagles want Samuel moved before the draft begins Thursday evening; the negotiating is now going through Samuel's player rep."

Seems like its a lock to happen if they can get him to drop the contractual demands but like Pudge said it would be hard to not be interested if the price is only a 5th or 6th round pick.

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:13 am 
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I'm really struggling to find a clear cut side here. I'm happy and I'm stumbling to think how this make sense. i just don't see how all three corners can be on the same team. I really don't want Grimes traded because Samuel is 31 and doesn't have many good years left. That being said, Samuel is a ball hawk and can make many plays. I think he's an upgrade over Dunta regardless of tackling ability because Dunta misses plenty of tackles. I don't think Dunta is going away though so I really don't know what's the point of this trade. Its really odd but for such a low draft pick, how can you not like it? With young corners like Owens and Franks, wouldn't you want to try to develop them to take that nickel back role? Strange things are happening but at least the Falcons aren't giving up a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:44 am 
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It does smack of the same issues that plagued the Eagles last year. Three good corners, but they didn't complement each other. None of them could play the slot, and therefore despite always have 2 or 3 good corners on the field, your pass defense really didn't improve that much.

I think Grimes is good enough that he could play the slot, but again he's not really a guy that has a ton of experience there, at least not that I can remember. And if it doesn't work, then you're going to be in a situation a year from now like the Eagles, where something has to give. Do you dump Samuel? Do you dump Dunta? Do you not give Grimes a long-term deal in the meantime because you might dump him?

It just seems odd, because the team that was so in love with Dunta Robinson 2 years ago because of all the things they said he brought to the table: toughness, physicality, etc. aren't really the same things that Samuel brings to the table. And it also seems like something that is just being done willy nilly, as opposed to be the plan for the off-season. It's not exactly a new revelation that Samuel is on the trade block, he has been since August. And if part of the plan from the beginning of the off-season was to get Samuel, and to try and make that work, then I think the Falcons should have placed much more effort on getting Mario Williams. Because if your two CBs are going to be Grimes & Samuel, who are off-man/off-zone corners primarily, then you need a stronger pass rush.

I do think Samuel is an elite cover corner, a "field tilter" so to speak, but only if he has the right supporting cast around him and in the right scheme. I don't think that currently exists in Atlanta and probably won't for the foreseeable future.

And like the Jones trade, the saving grace is that the Falcons are getting a very good player. But the problem remains the same, the probability that they don't know how to really use him...

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:55 am 
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Jeff Schultz of the AJC has an article on a possible Assante trade, and thinks it's all but done.

http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2012/04/24/asante-samuel-would-be-huge-acquisition-for-falcons/

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(Update: The Asante Samuel trade appears all but complete. The Falcons have been working since Tuesday to restructure Samuel’s contract and to make the numbers work in the salary cap. There could be other players who have their contracts restructured, or possibly cap casualties.)

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:58 am 
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Various outlets are reporting it's a done deal. I see some veteran's getting cut to make cap space. Do we keep Grimes and Robinson? Lots of questions....


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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:24 pm 
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Potential on-field chemsitry issues aside; if you can get Samuel for a 5th round pick as Schultz surmised you don't pass that up.

At the end of the day Samuel makes the Falcon defense better and it isn't a long term commitment for the Falcons. It isn't terribly cheap but Samuel is an elilte level cover corner.

If this deal is indeed something a long the lines of a 5th or 4th round pick I'll take it. I'd rather rent Samuel for 2-years than draft someone that has a 50/50 shot of making the roster and less than 50% shot at making an impact for the Falcons.

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:33 pm 
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dirtybirdnw wrote:
Potential on-field chemsitry issues aside; if you can get Samuel for a 5th round pick as Schultz surmised you don't pass that up.

At the end of the day Samuel makes the Falcon defense better and it isn't a long term commitment for the Falcons. It isn't terribly cheap but Samuel is an elilte level cover corner.

If this deal is indeed something a long the lines of a 5th or 4th round pick I'll take it. I'd rather rent Samuel for 2-years than draft someone that has a 50/50 shot of making the roster and less than 50% shot at making an impact for the Falcons.

All good points dirty, but I highlighted the real key issue.

Does Samuel make the Falcons defense better? Sure, he is a better cornerback than anybody we have on the roster. So on the surface, the answer appears to be less.

But if you keep all three players (Grimes, Dunta, & Samuel), someone is going to have to play in the slot. And if they are not good in the slot. Let's say for instance, you move Grimes to the slot. And he is a significantly diminished player, and the dropoff from that player today in the current role to them in the slot role, could essentially cancel any improvement that Samuel adds.

So if Option B is to dump either Grimes or Dunta, and from what I understand Dunta's restructured deal is such that it means he's unlikely to be dumped, and given that Grimes is playing under a 1-yr. franchise tender, makes him a lot easier to move. So if you just wind up swapping Grimes for Samuel, what have you really done? Samuel is better than Grimes, but not by a huge degree. You're basically talking about dumping the 9th best corner in the league for the 3rd best corner in the league, as compared to if you were getting rid of Dunta (say the 30th bester corner)

It's similar to the Julio Jones-Michael Jenkins swap. Yes, Jones is an infinitely better player than Jenkins, but when you in fact gauge how much he improved the team, it's not by any significant degree. Sure, Jones had 5 or so games that were better than anything Jenkins did in 7 years as a Falcon. But in the other 11 or so games, he did almost nothing. And at least in the case of Jenkins he was giving you something for those 11 games, as well as something similar for the remaining 5 games. So when you take Jenkins 16 games as a whole vs. Jones 16 games as a whole, they come out about even. Yes, I realize that Jones did not play in all 16 games, and that's part of the problem. Because if he had actually produced in the 3.75 games he missed, then he probably would have come out ahead.

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:41 pm 
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It's a done deal.

https://twitter.com/#!/AlbertBreer/stat ... 6952504320


6th round pick we gave up.

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
It's a done deal.

https://twitter.com/#!/AlbertBreer/stat ... 6952504320


6th round pick we gave up.

Sounds like robbery to me. They're going to have to restructure or get rid of Grimes now. I believe this contract puts us over the cap, or darn near.


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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:48 pm 
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AngryJohnny51 wrote:
Various outlets are reporting it's a done deal. I see some veteran's getting cut to make cap space. Do we keep Grimes and Robinson? Lots of questions....


for what we paid and a 6th round pick, I only see two scenario's that make sense.

Trade Grimes, or keep all three and put Dunta or Grimes in the slot.

But this means someone is going to get cut, or restructured. Im guessing Ovie, and possibly Jerry.

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:50 pm 
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Quote:
But this means someone is going to get cut, or restructured. Im guessing Ovie, and possibly Jerry.



Agree. I'm guessing we are around 5 million over? Any capoligists like to confirm?


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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:54 pm 
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Pudge wrote:

So if Option B is to dump either Grimes or Dunta, and from what I understand Dunta's restructured deal is such that it means he's unlikely to be dumped, and given that Grimes is playing under a 1-yr. franchise tender, makes him a lot easier to move. So if you just wind up swapping Grimes for Samuel, what have you really done? Samuel is better than Grimes, but not by a huge degree. You're basically talking about dumping the 9th best corner in the league for the 3rd best corner in the league, as compared to if you were getting rid of Dunta (say the 30th bester corner).


Doesn't anyone find it even more then a little curious that 2 hours after the AJC reported interest in Asante, Grimes hauls his a$$ in and signs his tag?

Didn't his agent and wife/girlfriend/babymama say 'hell to the no' about signing the tag?

It was reported by 'sources' ( *cough cough*) that Grimes held himself out in January. If that report was true, then everything this team has done in the last 24 hours makes complete sense to me. You bring in leverage.

I would argue that Samuels>Grimes at this point. Just slightly. First, if he actually held out, then were not 'swapping' players, were cutting bait. If he stays then we will know that the report was BS, and were going to use all three CB's in Nolans system that appears to like to use 3 CB's in the Big Nickle.

We will know soon!

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