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It's obvious here that no one here actually knows God.

Now by no means am I through this post trying to force a relationship with God on anyone. But by reading this thread, I can see that all of you are absolutely wrong about my God.

Have you ever tried Him? Have you ever given your whole life to Him and done things the way His Word says and then watching your life change?

To voice all of these careless comments about the Most High God is the actual bigotry. It's equivalent to me taking say Pudge (I say Pudge because he seems pretty well rounded and down to Earth), hypothetically speaking, knowing I've never met the guy a day in my life besides this website and saying things like "he's black, he's gay, he's half-hearted, he's a loser, he can cook very well, he is very responsible, he can type the fastest I've ever seen, he can hold a job...etc."

Do you see how doltish that is?

Let me be clear, religion is jacked up. Religion is a partial reason why the world is how it is. It is not until you have a true relationship with God that you understand the things of God. And you cannot understand the things of God without the Spirit of God.

My point is this, first get to know God personally before you try to define or expound upon Him.

Interesting. I would have never guessed you were "religious."

[/quote]
Interesting. I would have never guessed you were "religious." [/quote]

No need for sarcasm

Interesting. I would have never guessed you were "religious." [/quote]

No need for sarcasm [/quote]
OK....I'll play. As you point out with your Pudge analogy above it is dangerous making assumptions about people from postings on a MB--though you obviously did this very thing. Looking for an "objective" opinion from someone whose screen name is "Confess Jesus Now" and whose sig is graced by Biblical scriptures is like looking for objective political opinion from someone with "Palin in 2012" or something as a moniker. That isn't to say you are right or wrong about this though, clearly, you believe you are right...and you may well be. I mean this with all sincerity. It takes more faith to be an athiest than to be a Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc. I'm neither. In the realm of human thought the expression "If you believe it then it's true" holds some water especially in regard to things like spiritualism or religion or whatever you want to call this. You've chosen your path, it works for you and you are certain it is true and proper. I have no problem with this other than the troubling reality of the situation being that in so doing your belief system demands that you believe whoever does not think as you in these regards is wrong. This is basically stated in a couple of the Ten Commandments (Thou Shall Worship No Other God Before Me). You seem to be an evangelical and there are scriptures that instruct you to do this, if I am not mistaken. Narrow is the path of the righteous, correct? It's a Catch 22, really. You are--as best as I can tell from your postings on a MB--firm in your belief. In all honesty, it is borderline smug in your belief. But that's OK. When you're right you're right. Right?

As a disclaimer, I am not "picking a fight" and have had these type of discussions a million times in a million different formats. Some people can abide views they don't share and some can't. I would wager your stance is less "open minded" than mine...almost by necessity if you know what I mean. For example, I could be open minded about gravity while you know Newton's Law to be fact. It may make me a fool but I can with all fairness say my mind was open to the possibility that a dropped apple may inexplicably go up despite all empirical evidence pointing to the contrary. Similarly, I may be a fool for not being of your religious mindset. I accept this as completely possible. I doubt that you are as "open minded" about it. Make sense? At any rate, no offense intended or taken.

CJN, there is a difference between Faith and Religion. Faith is an individual's personal relationship with God. I have nothing against the Faithful. Personally, I am agnostic.

However, religion on the other hand is the belief in a set of rules that govern faith. And thus these rules, laws, creeds cause people to action. And from here is where you get the folks that cite Leviticus 18:22 and God's hatred of homosexuals and ensuing verses about God punishing America for allowing the existence of homosexuality.

And that is the part that is BS, and one of many reasons why I think religion is a joke.

Religion is not about faith, it's about power and control. It always has been. It's why throughout history kings and leaders have used it to control their subjects or another group of people. Individuals that claim to be prophets, controlling the minds and actions of their followers. It's why there are 3 monotheistic religions that all believe in the same God, but there are hundreds if not thousands of smaller sects of each one because along the way some individual claimed that the others were doing it wrong, and people should listen to them because they know the "right way" of doing things.

Faith is a wonderful thing, and if you and others have it, good for you. But what Mr. Tyree here is talking about is religion.

And he claims two men can't show a woman how to be a woman. Which is complete and utter BS, because it basically says that a man can't raise a daughter. A man can't teach a woman to be moral, upright, honest, caring, gentle, loving?

And that sort of bigotry, ignorance, and idiocy is created from a book written by men that claimed to be the Word of God. And for 3000 years since then, thousands of individuals have claimed a great many things to be the Word of God. That's not to mean that everything in the Bible is a bad thing. There are a lot of good things in that book that people should read and use to govern their own personal lives. But the minute people start to use what is written in their and project it upon others, it stops being about faith and God, and it starts to be about control and power.

Pudge, I agree with a lot of your response. But I don't agree with your insinuation that the Bible is not the Word of God. There are too many infallible proofs that the Bible is the true Word of God. Every prophecy in the Bible has come to pass and there are many more that will be fulfilled in the near future, I can assure you.

It just goes back to my question of have you ever tried Him? Have you done biblical research to see how much of the English Bible translation is coherent to the Hebrew and Greek? I have. Have you ever read the prophecies of the Bible and saw the evidence of the fulfillment? I have.

I, as a man, will not be gullible. I made that decision when I gave my life to Christ. And I can assure you that there are no flaws in God's Word. I would not be here proclaiming this thing if I was not certain of the truth, If I were not ready to die for it. Like I said, I don't get into religion. I have done countless hours of research on this stuff and it comes out clean every time unlike Islam, Catholicism, Jehovah's Witness and all others.

I think you owe it to yourself to at least do research on this because if you're agnostic, I'm sure you haven't done much, if any. Why just believe that the Bible is man-made and only partly God inspired without getting the facts yourself? Seeing how well you know Pro Sports stats, I know what you are capable of as far as gathering facts. The question becomes, are you up to the challenge?

I've done quite a bit of research. My mother was raised Baptist, grew up in a household that was religious and went to church every Sunday. My dad was raised Catholic, they went to church, but when he was old enough (18) to make his own decision, he stopped going. So I was raised in a household that did not stress religion and we went to church once in a blue moon when I was a kid.

And so when I became a teenager, I began looking for some meaning because there was that spiritual void in my life. So I began to research a number of religions. I had a Jewish friend in high school, and constantly pestered him with questions about his religion. Read up on Islam, and for a brief time thought about converting. Went to college, learned a little bit about some Eastern philosophies such as Buddhism and Taoism. I majored in history, and took other classes in anthropology, sociology, psychology, evolution, and biology.

I have a copy of the Bible (New Living Translation), bequeathed to me by my late grandfather that sits on my desk in front of my computer, and usually once a week or so I crack that thing open and read something. I find the book of Romans to be a fascinating read.

But through all of this, my thirst for knowledge, understanding, to understand my purpose in this universe, incorporating everything I knew and up until a few years ago, wanting to prove the existence of God, I couldn't do it.

I'm not smart enough, but plenty of smarter people have tried and failed. And that's why it's called Faith, believing in something that you cannot prove. And it's probably unprovable, thus the agnosticism. And it's my opinion, which I note because it's more of a fluid opinion than a fundamental belief of mine, that most of the evidence stacks against the existence of God, at least the existence that is indicated in the Bible.

So I decided a few years ago, I'll live my life, try and treat people with dignity and respect, die, and then see what happens.

The bible tells us that faith is the substance of things hoped for. So I don't think that it's believing something that you'll can't prove. Your faith is the proof.

The Bible is faith based so either you believe it or you don't. God gave us all free will and you have a choice between life or death. But you only get two choices, and He told us to choose life. Jesus is life.

So if there is a heaven and hell, what do you feel (not believe) are the qualifications to get you into either...?

If there is a heaven and hell, then I'm wrong, and will most likely burn. And what does it take to get in heaven? Not sure, but probably all the stuff that is in the Bible, or possibly the Qur'an, or maybe the Book of Mormon. Who knows?

Faith is the ultimate tool of the con man and religon is a tool that has been used to control the simple minded and guilible for all of recorded history. If god truly loved us there would be no hell, nor we he give us the ability to make choices that would put us there. Why would a supreme being have such a selfish human trait of needing people to believe in and worship him? Anyways, I too am agnostic and I have no problem with people believing whatever they want. I do have a problem when people use these beliefs to discriminate against others.

I respect others beliefs and don't try and force things on them. Now if they ask me what I believe I'll tell them. I have faith in there is a god but that;s my decision.The more I think about it relgion is like politics there is no clear winner if you keep an open mind. Republicans always think their right and dems do also. You have a constant war with the people who vote them in the real losers.I'm sure this happens today with religion as one type thinks it is above all others.Religion as started wars and can be very dangerous to a society. I also believe in conspiracies and there are certain things governments and heads of religous parties don't always tell the people. For example, the Vatican is extremely powerful however what would be a disaster to the Vatican if what we know wasn't true. You could take this Vatican example and apply it to any religion.

I have often wondered about stories of atheists coming back from a near death experience and totally changing their beliefs. The atheist who encounters a religous miracle and changes his beliefs. I'm not talking where he it can be explained by science in someway but indeed an encounter that is unexplainable for example in times of danger a man lost in the woods and can't find his way out. A man appears out of the blue and tells the lost person to go a certain way and the person does find his way back. Later as the lost person tells his wife what happened the wife asks can you tell me what the man looked like and the husband describes the person. The wife is amazed at the husband's description so she gets the photo album out and shows a pic of her grand dad who died 20 yrs ago and never met her future husband. The wife showsd the pic to the husband and he says yes this is the exact man that told me to go a certain way. The science community can debate as much as they would like but there are certain unexplained things that will be a mystery and science has no answer now or in the future when we understand more about our world.

@ scout and dave, I am done talking religion, as I said. I only deal with a relationship with God, because that's all that matters, not religion.

@Pudge, the only thing that can get you into Heaven is accepting a Savior from eternal death which by definition is separation from God. Nothing else matters. We can treat people with all of the love we can muster and never kill a man or say a curse word. But if we never accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and be born of the Spirit, we will never see the kingdom of God.

I respect your conviction CJN, but if we were in a different part of the world, they would tell me something completely different.

It's hard to have faith via a religion that was forced upon my ancestors through enslavement, rape, and murder.

Regardless of how many opinions and religions there are there can only be one Fact, one Truth. It's up to you guys to choose Him. And from this point on, you can not be honest and true to say that you don't know what the Truth is. You can say that rejected it. But it does not have to be that way.

Who cares how the Truth got to you? All that matters is that you receive It. You shouldn't base your eternal destination on what other people have done and you shouldn't expect to not see hypocrites in church. Those people will receive what is due unto them, as will you.

I will end this conversation, which was one I enjoyed BTW, by saying thank you guys for not being anal. I have had this discussion with so many people who persecute me for spreading the gospel and reject in an inappropriate way.

Well it was good to see a civil discussion about religion that didn't devolve into a shouting match like most things on the internet.

p'shaw. Flying Spaghetti Monster is the only way to go. Every night I pray that you all may be touched by his noodly appendage. Just so you know, global warming,earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of pirates since the 1800s !! I'm right, your wrong, and if you dont believe it, all you guys can go to hell

These are the kinds of guys I was referring to. Being a Christian, you really see the immaturity in people manifest. Smh.

just for the record, I wished no 'hell' upon any man, it was strictly satire and sarcasm. The Pastafarian Hell is not a good place to be. If my readings of the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster are correct, Hell is full of stale beer and strippers with STD's!

LOL, Fun Gus, I love your monster!!! I just hope my wife can have a virgin birth by him, or does he need to you know, use his noodle on her

I hold no claim over The FSM. I am just the messenger http://www.venganza.org/

may we all be touched by his noodly appendage! Pasta be upon you

rhetoric and riddles

strike another victory against those who would defame our Noodly Master!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14135523