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 Post subject: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:53 am 
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http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdo ... nfl-wp2653

Super Bowl hero’s shocking same-sex marriage comments

By Doug Farrar

Super Bowl hero’s shocking same-sex marriage commentsPeople play in the NFL together despite their immense differences — it happens all the time. So it is for two key members of the 2007 New York Giants team that upended the New England Patriots' run to a perfect season with a 17-14 victory over the heavily favored Pats in Super Bowl XLII.

Receiver David Tyree(notes), who made a key catch in the air against New England safety Rodney Harrison(notes), recently made some controversial comments on the subject of same-sex marriage. Tyree, who made one Pro Bowl in 2005 primarily for his special teams work, caught a total of 54 passes for 650 yards and four touchdowns in his six-year NFL career, but he's still an interesting voice because of that one heroic Super Bowl catch.

And with that voice, Tyree managed to put his foot in his mouth in the minds of many people, saying that two people of the same gender could not make a commitment to each other that involved the raising of children.

Asked in a recent interview with an anti-gay group called the National Organization for Marriage about a same-sex marriage bill that recently passed the New York state assembly and awaits approval from state senators, Tyree said that "this will be the beginning of our country's sliding towards, you know, it's a strong word, but 'anarchy.' The moment we have it, if you trace back even to other cultures, other countries, that will be the moment where our society and itself, loses its grip with what's right. Marriage is one of those things that is the backbone of society.

"How can marriage be marriage for thousands of years and now all the sudden because a minority, an influential minority, has a push or agenda ... and totally reshapes something that was not founded in our country," Tyree continued. "You can't teach something that you don't have, so two men will never be able to show a woman how to be a woman."

Defensive end Michael Strahan, who made Super Bowl XLII his last game after 15 seasons in what should be a Hall of Fame career, has taken his post-football life to several different media outlets and advocacy campaigns, including a recent one in support of same-sex marriage. Strahan recently shot a video for the New Yorkers for Marriage Equality campaign with his fiancée, Nicole Murphy.

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:59 pm 
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And because he made a circus catch in a big game we care what his opinion is? Grandstanding about grandstanding?

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:03 pm 
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He was saying today that good made that ball stick to his head, so he would be more famous now, and so that his fame would help him fight for god's will. I like how if you talk to god it's religon, if you talk to the other made up voices in your head you go to a mental institution. He needs help

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:49 am 
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Reggie White said God told him to sign with the Panthers so he could win a SB and be a witness for Him. So much for pre-destination...or is it, as I have always suspected, that God has a wicked sense of humor? You know, the whole God-told-me-this crowd can seem pretty comical and I think they often just use these proclaimations in self serving ways but because God has never spoken aloud to me does not mean that he hasn't spoken aloud to anyone. In truth, I'm not a religious person and have often been guilty of being derisive about fantastical things people say regarding their faith, however, there are people who seem otherwise completely sane and are much smarter than me who have sworn God told them this or that. Just being the Devil's Advocate here. Personally, I'm not sure that the state needs to be involved in the marriage business on any level--hetero or homo. That would quiet some of this stuff down.

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:57 pm 
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And it's an absolute joke when people use their religion as justification for their bigotry. And it's one of the reasons why I think religion is a joke.

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:22 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
And it's an absolute joke when people use their religion as justification for their bigotry. And it's one of the reasons why I think religion is a joke.

So, you're judging the judgemental? Don't gauge anything by the lowest rung on its ladder. Personally, I've never been a fan of organized religion and really am not so sure about what people mean, specifically, by "spirituality." But there is one thing I do know...I'm way stupider now than I used to be.

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:14 pm 
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I said it was one of the reasons why I think religion is a joke. I have a lot more.

The good thing about religion is that it's an easy to swallow indoctrination to upright moral behavior. Most of the major religions agree on good morals: don't kill, don't cheat, basically don't be an asshole, etc.

Marx said religion is the opiate of the masses. It's easy for people to fill in the gaps of their own ignorance by saying God did it. There is so much about the universe, life, and our very own existence that we just don't understand. And it's easiest for people to fill those gaps with an omniscient, omnipotent being named God rather than to contemplate those things. This is the "God Zone" that religion fills. But as we've developed and evolved and discovered in our 250,000 or so years of existence on this planet, we've discovered new things and we've filled in many of those gaps. And everytime we do, the "God Zone" gets smaller and smaller.

For example, thousands of years ago, when a group of early humans were walking through the forest primeval, a child noticed the wind blowing in the trees, and asked his father: "Daddy, what makes the wind blow." And his father answered with something along the lines of: "The Wind spirit breathes."

Nowadays we know the wind blows because energy is applied to air molecules and it creates differences in pressure, and we know those molecules like to move from high pressure to low pressure.

And this continues to happen throughout human history. And perhaps eventually, we'll be able to fill in all the gaps of the "God Zone." Perhaps we won't. Who knows.

Now there may be a higher power out there that exists in the universe. But I want to stress the notion of power in terms of a force. Because I think it's crazy to think that power is some being that sits on a throne in another dimension and loves all of us, but at the same time if we don't worship Him in the correct way he'll condemn us to a separate dimension of torture and pain for the rest of time because we broke a couple of rules during the short span of our lives and has some master plan which justifies why innocent babies die and why bad things happen to good people, etc.

Maybe that is the case. But when you really think about it, is it really any less "out there" than somebody believing in the Xenu, High Ruler of the Galaxy?

If there is a higher power in the universe, I think it probably lies in the discovery and truth being why it is ordered chaos. Scientists theorize that the universe began with the Big Bang, the most chaotic event to ever happen. And from that we get the order and balance that our and all existence is. If there is a God, he's probably there. But probably not in Heaven saying, it is wrong to kill except when it is in My name.

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:11 pm 
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You hold a fairly typical "modernist" view of it all and one that I sort of lean to as well. But saying the wind moves because of such and such molecules doing this or that rather than "God did it" is a dog chasing it's tail argument. If "God" created the universe then who/what created the Creator. What/who made the Big Bang go bang? There are a million unanswerable questions and most of the best answers beget other questions. I lean towards the "Man created God in his own image" argument but, as I say, the greatest discovery most of us individually and collectively make is how ignorant we are. There is an almost inevitable smugness to the folks who have their minds made up--the tragically religious and unreligious--that can be a little hard to stomach. I'm 99.9% Tyree is way off the mark in his views but you never know.

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:08 pm 
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Very good points. My views may change. I realize that 5 years ago, I believed something different. And 5 years from now my viewpoint may change.

If someone is particularly religious, then that doesn't bother me. But I just hate people using as a justification and crutch for injustice. Believing in a certain thing doesn't make you bad. I don't care what others believe. Just don't try to impress your belief system on me. And that's what this is with this "God hates Gays" attitude. Religious fervor like this was used in past decades and centuries to justify segregation, slavery, genocide, and many of the other terrible things that we humans do that God apparently lets slide.

It's just especially a shame when you see African-Americans standing at the forefront of the line of bigots. The one question I have is where would MLK Jr. stand on this issue. And unfortunately, I have a feeling it would be on the wrong side.

:so:

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:00 pm 
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Geez, this God thing vs science would be a good discussion for a new thread. I just wanted to mention a couple of things since I believe in god. I like strange things,events and the unexplained and think its fascinating.

Things like :

1, Watching the show Celebrity ghost stories where Ali Landry tells the story of her grand dad calling her saying how much he loved her. Landry couldn't believe it was him calling because he was supposed to be in a coma. After the call she calls her mom to tell her what happened and her mom says the grand dad passed away over an hour ago.
2. Unsolved Mystries TV show - a fire hits an apartment building. Someone goes into the house and saves the women with her baby. The someone later turns out to be her brother except her brother has been dead for 5 yrs.
3. A kid dies and comes back to life after 12 minutes of death which shoudln't happen since the brain dies after 6 minutes without the heart beating. The kid tells of how he saw his sister,grand parents etc etc. When the kid comes back to life he tells his folks what happened in death. The folks are startled because the kid was never told he had a sister because she died 5 yrs before he was born or the kid never saw his grand dad because he was already dead and they never met yet the kid describes them exactly.
4, A kid tells their parents they want to go to a certain tow many states from where they live. The parents think the kid is playing games but go ahead and decide to go to the town the kid wants to go to. The kid wants to go to a certain house and the parents find the house. The kid describes exact;y each room and the people that lived there. The folks that live in this house are stunned to hear the things from this kid since he was right. The folks that live there inherited the house from their dead parents yet the kid could name each person, what they looked like and all the rooms. The other thing is their parents have been dead for 20 yrs and the kid is 7 yrs old. Reincarnation? This was before the internet so there is no way the kid would know this stuff.

There are many more accounts of strange things unexplained so are these just made up stories for television and books. How can science explain this? I'm very skeptical of things but until things are explained than I do believe in a god but that's just me.

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:39 am 
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Pudge wrote:
Very good points. My views may change. I realize that 5 years ago, I believed something different. And 5 years from now my viewpoint may change.

If someone is particularly religious, then that doesn't bother me. But I just hate people using as a justification and crutch for injustice. Believing in a certain thing doesn't make you bad. I don't care what others believe. Just don't try to impress your belief system on me. And that's what this is with this "God hates Gays" attitude. Religious fervor like this was used in past decades and centuries to justify segregation, slavery, genocide, and many of the other terrible things that we humans do that God apparently lets slide.

It's just especially a shame when you see African-Americans standing at the forefront of the line of bigots. The one question I have is where would MLK Jr. stand on this issue. And unfortunately, I have a feeling it would be on the wrong side.

:so:

Well, it is a bit of a conundrum. There are interpretations of things in Biblical scriptures and other scriptures that just aren't going to sit well with "contemporary thinking." While my belief may largely be that the universe is indifferent there are others from the there-is-a-reason-for-everything-and-God-has-a-plan-for-everyone camp. Furthermore, the notion of the non-judging and always loving God is fairly new. He was pretty harsh in the Old Testament. Also, religious "belief systems" are probably at the core of our laws whether we know it or not. And, as you point out above, these systems make for an orderly society. Most are pretty common sensical. The relative acceptance of homosexuality in mainstream culture is a fairly recent phenomenon and, on this issue, I think, as a general rule, you would find black culture and especially black churches more at the forefront of bigotry than others. Just a personal supposition from fairly anecdotal ovservations. African Americans are no more or less bigoted than any other group, IMHO, and I think MLK himself might be a little troubled by his canonization..Great man but still merely a man and flawed like the rest of us.

Scout, as to these seemingly supernatural occurences, I have no answer and , yes, they are possibly exaggerated to make better television. I have a freind who I've always thought had pretty good sense who has become quite religious. He swears he has heard God's voice and once when his Rev's car wouldn't start in the wal Mart parking lot while he an dthe Rev crawled underneath it and tried to get it going the Rev's wife "laid hands" on the hood and said, "Get in." They got in and the car started. This seems coincidental to me...like this past weekend when my amplifier blew when I had some pedals hooked up backward. The repairman said that would have no effect whatsoever on the amp but they both happened at the exact same time. God? It can be hard to take another person's beliefs seriously and, concurrently, as a result, to take that person seriously. I struggle with this.

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:47 am 
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Bnb, well I guess most of us are skeptical people, it's just human nature. Until we see something that is unexplainable and might have religous implications there are always going to be doubters.I can see both points of view but as mentioned there are just to many unexplainable things you can't use science to justify.I've always wanted to meet people who have had near death experiences to see for myself but haven't met anyone yet. Can all the near death experiences be explained as just science?

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:23 am 
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Well, unfortunately, we all get to have a near death experience in the greater scheme of things. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:28 pm 
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I disagree scout, I think most people are fairly gullible rather than skeptical. I think in general, people are willing to believe anything. It's probably an evolutionary thing since it allows for our brains to more easily process new information and learn quicker. We are also social creatures, so things like "hearsay" probably carry more weight than they probably should. It's why everyone loves gossip.

You're right God was all fire and brimstone in the Old Testament. Then he took some anger management classes for the New Testament, and then said screw that and found a happy medium between the two for the Qu'ran. All of it tells me that religion is just a cultural expression of the current time. It all grows and changes over time along with culture. So when people try to convince me that it's all eternal, I call bullshit. Like all cultural expressions, such as music, food, art, etc. it's a construct of man rather than a construct of some omniscient being that guides us all.

I don't pretend to have all the answers. I'm just expressing my opinion, and others that have differing ones are free to do so as well.

We've seen civil rights movements for blacks, minorities, and women in recent decades, and I think that the time is now for the same to happen for the LGBT community. Eventually we'll get there, we always do. But probably not soon enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:29 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
I disagree scout, I think most people are fairly gullible rather than skeptical. I think in general, people are willing to believe anything. It's probably an evolutionary thing since it allows for our brains to more easily process new information and learn quicker. We are also social creatures, so things like "hearsay" probably carry more weight than they probably should. It's why everyone loves gossip.

I don't pretend to have all the answers. I'm just expressing my opinion, and others that have differing ones are free to do so as well.



So your saying that all these strange happenings are just made up then we see on TV or in books since most people are gullible Pudge? Interesting. I'll repeat what I said before that until it happens to us we are all skeptical or as Pudge says gullible. I will say that when my folks died I went to a psychic. Yeah I know but when things are tough you try other means. Anyway I have had sleeping problems for the last 4-5 years due to pressure on my chest when I sleep at night. I realized though recently its due to high tryglycerides which I am working on to get down. Anyway this psychic was telling me alot of general stuff but also things she had no way to know.You couldn't research it on the internet or tell from reading myself as a person. Then she had me stand up and said some kind of chant and I went home that night for the last week and all the pressure was gone. How can this be if all this is hog wash? Books,tv shows to my personal encounter and the unexplained. Are we that gullible even if it happens to us not to realize there are things we can't explain even with science?

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:23 pm 
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yeah Pudge how do explain Scout's chanting with pyschics and the miracle chest pain cure??? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:53 pm 
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DaveWaz wrote:
yeah Pudge how do explain Scout's chanting with pyschics and the miracle chest pain cure??? :lol:


I don't even have to watch Falcon games since I already know the outcome. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:39 pm 
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For once I can say I'm proud to be a New Yorker!!!! We did it and we did it together, Democrats, Independents and Republicans. I live right next to Albany and the gays are in the streets, partying like crazy. I'm so happy for them.

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:48 pm 
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What happens when they get a divorce? Will they get 50/50 split or how will that work?

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:00 am 
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Everything is the exact same as a straight marriage. The only difference is they put in verbiage that you can't sue religous organizations for refusing to perform or host the ceremony's.

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:08 pm 
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The possible existence of the supernatural doesn't necessarily legitimize that there is only one God and Muhammad is his prophet.

I don't know how to explain your psychic. There are people out there called Mentalists that often claim to be psychics, but really all they are doing is running a very good con. If you want to see one in action, Discovery Channel has a new show called Deception with Keith Barry, where he performs a lot of tricks that most people would probably consider "psychic" and it's mostly through the power of suggestion.

And again, I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of psychics. They say people use about 15-25% of their brain. Maybe psychics use 50%.

Could ghosts actually exist? Sure. Does that mean that there is an afterlife? Not necessarily.

There are a lot of "fishy" things in this world. And fishy to me often means stuff that can't necessarily be explained with our current knowledge and technology. Just like a thousand years ago they couldn't explain why certain people got sick and others didn't. So they said it had to do with demons. That's one of the reason why the New Testament is full of passages where Jesus is casting out demons. They didn't understand things like viruses, bacteria, cells, mental illness, and other pathological processes that we understand today.

A thousand years from today, people may look back on us and think we're primitives for beileving in some things that we tend to believe in.

But I don't really care about figuring some of these things out. I'll let people with much better degrees than me and the time and patience to discover these things spend their time figuring it out.

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:48 pm 
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Pudge, I understand your points. Your right time usually gives us an understanding of things and the longer humans live questions get answered in time. Let me also point out though that sometimes we may think there is another answer for a mystery but instead the answer is right in fron of us. Remember when I asked the question how can the moon not have stars in the back ground and that perhpas NASA was trying to pull one over on the public. Then you mentioned some theory that it can be legitimate the stars not showing in the background due to this theory. Well I was thinking about the psychic I saw and her ability to touch you and all the sudden the meidcal issue went away for a week.Maybe she does have some power they we don't understand today and some humans are born with it. I am very careful not to divulge to much info to psychics and see what they can tell me. I don't go very muchj(only 3 times in my life) and some people can read people well.

Yes I have seen those supernatural busters like the Amazing Randy who tries to demystify all the psychics and I'll have to catch your show. Still though for most humans death is the biggest question in life and one that we all will face.I just have a hard time believing all these near death experiences you hear about can be faked just for exposure on TV.Even if humans could use a majority of their brain still wouldn't explain certain mysteries. Also while the debunkers are out there trying to find what makes things tick just what if there is an after life and the debunkers are wrong? There are always two sides of a coin.I try and keep an open mind on these things but still believe in religion and always keep the faith. It's my personal philopshy but that's just me. I respect everyone's decisions but you still have to back it up. As I was saying if anyone of us had a near death experience it would most lkely change you forever. Now to our interpretations of what happened in the near death experience that would be a question.Was it part of the brain or did you actually experience an out of body experience. Who were those people you never saw before.? How can the brain make this up? Just many questions and even science sometimes can't answer.

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:32 am 
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I am very happy for the gay community that they got equal protection. IMO, this was a clear cut civil rights violation, and eventually I think most or all the states will eventually ratify thier laws to protect that community. And Tyree is just an idiot. That being said, I also get a little depressed when these same people crucify Tracy Morgan for his awful comedy routine while giving 'gay friendly comics' like Kathy Griffin or Lisa Lampinelli free hand to say similar awful things....And I think when that community allows groups like GLAAD to strong arm unpopular spech ( at least in a comic sense) or sits back and doesnt get pissed when the 'Pride Parades' degenerates into naked dudes fornicating while riding penis shaped floats down 10th street and doing things that would make Perez Hilton blush they should be taken to task as harshly as Tracy Morgan or Tyree because that is just as damaging as the 'unpopular speech' they seem to get all bent out of shape about. Bigotry or prejudice arent limited to one group, IMO.

On 'God' all I can say is when I was Emmit's age, I was a 'believer'. But by the time I turned 30, had been out in the real world and had some life experience I became vehemently athiestic.I guess I resented the teachings I had because they didnt really work out when I 'needed them to'... During both of these times, I was at ease because I had a 'belief'. After the birth of my son, and the amount of crazy coincidences that has happened in my life, I have to believe this is not all 'by chance'. But it puts me in an uncomfortable place, where I believe in a higher power, but I cant identify it. So I have no 'ideaology' to guide me, other then the Golden Rule ( 1 and 2 ).

Sometimes I long for the days when faith ruled reason, and reason ruled faith. But all I have now is 'well I believe in God, but I dont know its name', and that's kind of generic. Oh well...

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:47 pm 
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Some people are more equal than others, FG. So often, bottom feeders seem to hijack ideaologies. My greatest wish in a debate or whatever is to have some f**** appoint himself mouthpiece for the side I'm against. The American politcal landscape seems nearly thrown asunder by this. The right and left fringes rule the airwaves and the folks with sense in the middle or standing there scratching their heads looking back and forth like at a tennis match following the ball...hypnotized by the spectacle.

Golden Rule is pretty simple and hard to argue with but is maybe a little bit I'm-OK-You're-OK. I can't say I've honestly ever been a believer or a very good athiest...more just a squirrel in the world trying to find a nut. To be resolved in one's beliefs would certainly be a nice way to live. Takes a lot of guess work out of things. One fo the biggest queries to me is whether or not there is such a thing as an answered prayer.

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 Post subject: Re: Bigotry rears its ugly head
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:30 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:02 pm
Posts: 6598
Location: Indianapolis IN
Lightening strikes tree near Caylee Anthony's memorial after verdict given. Be afraid, very afraid. :shock: Kind of odd out of all the places lighting strikes happens near the little girl's memorial not long after the verdict.Is someone trying to tell us something? :naughty: :pray:

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/07/li ... rial-site/

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