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Maybe for the first time in this country, we can have a free and open discussion about race and race relations. I made these comments in another thread where they were inappropriate, so I'm positng them here for people to discuss them further:

I don't really agree with your assessment Pudge. Maybe on the national media level but on a local level the Philly area makes McNabb to be the best QB ever. They def. will go out of thier way to bash and discredit TO, but they go out of thier way to defend and praise McNabb.

there is a subconscious level of thinking that whenever people see an outspoken black person, people immediately dislike him because it goes back to an older line of thought that a black person is "better seen than heard."

I dont hink this is true either. Look at Shaq. Who is more outspoken them him and yet every media outlet has a huge hard-on for him.

And speaking of this race thing I have a question that I would prefer if black people answered it for me.

I live in a middle to upper middle class white township. They say our population will more then double in the next 10-20 years. Our school just raised taxes by the millions to expand our middle and high school and now they say they need another expansion of them to accomidate for the influx of population. The township people are not happy about another multimillion dollar tax increase for most of the rebuilding budget. Open forums of what else we could do to help raise money for this has caused some controversy. Since our population increases a bundle every year there is a housing develpoment being built every day. These are middle-upper middle class homes. From $200,000 upwards to $1,000,000 dollar homes. Our sports teams suck. Out of the county our school has the lowest revenue and success in sports. Some people have proposed that we start building low-income houses to bring in minorities to hopefully play our sports and make us more competitive. Some people don't want this because we dont have any low income housing in our township. I think I should also note that our township has a black population of less then 5% and a total minoritiy population of less then 10%.

What are sme of your thoughts on this? As a black person does it offend you that some people proposed we built low income housing to bring black talent to our HS sports? And does it offend you that some people don't want us to built these houses? They claim to have legit reason but I believe they just don't want minoriites in our town. (One woman actually claimed if we did this she guarentees our crime rate would go up)

Thoughts?

BTW....I'm kinda in a rush typing this real quick so if I came through like I have a opinion or agenda on this subject I don't.

As a black man, I find the situation in your township disturbing, but I really don't expect much more. Not to say that I expect all or the majority of Americans to have a similar attitude, but the average black person doesn't care about the problems that plague the entire race and culture, so why would I suspect a white person to?

In a perfect world, whites would want blacks to come to their neighborhoods in order to enrich culture and improve education, not just for the added benefits of greater athletic potential.

Also in this same perfect world, blacks would not have to rely on the introduction of low income housing to be able to move to upper/middle class areas. They'd be a regular part of that class.

But we of course know that this is not a perfect world. I would suspect the "dissenters" of your town would cite reasons such as crime and drugs as their reasons for not approving of such a plan. And since this is not a perfect world, the link between crime rates and black population is difficult to overlook.

My beef with the media stems a lot from the fact that I live in Virginia, which may or may not be a factor. But it seems that when bad things happen to black people, it's no big deal. Whenever those same things happen to whites, it's like the very thread of soceity is unraveling.

The same media seemed to turn a blind eye and deaf ear on the drug and crime epidemics of the inner city, but once it touches the suburban areas, it makes national headlines, gets stories on Dateline, Time Magazine, and 60 Minutes.

I think that sort of illustrates one of the problems with race in this country. America has experienced a vast suburbanization in the past 50 years, because I believe that elites (in this case, almost exclusively whites) are running from the problems of the urban environment. Basically, running away from their problem, hoping to leave them behind, but you can't run away from them. Eventually, it's going to show up on your doorstep again, unless you choose to face it head on.

And you're probably right about the local media. But to me, the national media so quickly embraced people like Tom Brady and Manning, and still have yet to do so with McNabb on the same level. And its the national media that I think is more important, because they have much more wide reaching impact. Think about what type of endorsements McNabb has? Chunky soup and some United Way commercials. Peyton has a string of Mastercard or Visa commercials, and probably some other endorsements that I can't think of. Besides Nike, what other endorsements has Vick done (not counting video games)? What about Daunte? He did a FedEx commercial this year, along with Derrick Brooks and Jerome Bettis. Chunky soup or Mastercard?

I can't really think of many black athletes that have "crossed over" in terms of endorsements besides O.J. Simpson and Michael Jordan. Does Tiger Woods do anything besides Nike?

I realize marketing has a bit to do with it. Frankly, Visa really isn't bending over backwards to attract blacks to their product, because when you look at poor people in this country, you're going to see more blacks than whites (percentage wise). But I do believe that ads and endorsements really do reflect national attitudes towards people and such.

BUt I guess I'll leave it at that for now...

Great post Pudge, and the fact remains that the media will jump all over an outspoken black athlete while an outspoken white athlete is labeled funny or some junk & let loose. I'm not saying anyone has ever done what TO did, but I gather if Brady said those things about Deion Branch or someone, ESPN would be bending over backwards to lick his hairy sack. It's a double standard that is still in place within the media & front offices of sports, and we can only hope it will change.

I agree, I think the only real monster of T.O. is the one that the media tries so hard to create. If the media would have backed off and left the Eagles alone, I don't think there ever would have been a problem. The media needs to back out of team affairs and let them be.

If anyone doesn't think that T.O. didn't try to use the media to get leverage with the Eagles you are crazy. Come on! T.O. had MULTIPLE press conferences from his house. You don' t think that T.O. isn't trying to use the media?

When you act stupid you are stupid. Regardless of whether you are white, black, green, blue, yellow, red, purple, blonde, brunette, tan, pasty white, or any other color on the planet. In T.O.'s own little world he was a god. He got injured the Eagles dropped a notch performance wise and he comes back and nearly leads them to a Super Bowl victory. I hate to break it to T.O. but the Eagles would have been in the playoffs with or without T.O. and they made it to the Super Bowl without T.O. there is no way that T.O. deserves a pay raise.

Now, does the fact that T.O. is a black man amplify the coverage and debate about the situation? Yes. The media is notorious for covering the stereotypes and bad press about black people in general. The one thing that has always bothered me (beyond unfair media coverage) is all the social programs in place to keep a black/minority person down. There are so many precidents in society (schools especially) that teach black youth that "well, your black so you don't have to achieve as much to be succesful" (and the whole stigma that atheletics is one of the only ways out). There is a second layer of standards for minorities that sets the majority up for failure. At most we need ot recongnize the learning differences between a black, hispanic, asian, white, and whatever other minotrity you can think of and find the best way to teach. Coming up with lower standards and easier testing standards for minorities is a setup for failure. Everyone has the same chance to be successful in life if given the same opportunities but unfortunately not eveyrone is given the same opportunities.

I have to admit my community has been relatively devoid of ethnic diveristy until recent changes in the economy became prominant. With the upturn in housing costs and the hurricane disaster many displaced minorities have called Vancouver their home due to slightly less housing costs in the downtown and uptown areas of the city. It has been a culture shock and enlightnening experience for myself. I have meet some of the most amazing people since this has happend. There is a gentleman down the street who moved in that served our country in Iraq, played baseball at LSU, and is now trying to break out as a produce in the R&B/Hip-hop genre. Meeting him has lead to an outlet to really get to know the people behind the scenes here in Portland/Vancouver of a music form that has been a favorite of mine for years. I wish everyone could have this sort of intercourse and not notice the color of man/woman's skin. As sad as it was the media and other various stereotypes made be hesitant when Vancouver for the first time began to develop a truely diverse ethnic society.

I hope I'm not stepping on anybody's toes but I was a white youth who was far from understanding ethnic diversity growing up in a predominately white community. I also have not been around or experienced the ghetto's of New York, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, and other major cities around American. So I certainly do not understand the plight and dynamics of such situations.

But to close my original thought... T.O. used the media as much as the media used T.O. I don't feel bad for T.O. and believe he got what was coming to him and it had little to do with race as it did with T.O. just not being smart about his situation.

agree to disagree? I think the media cornered TO on several occasions, and most infuriating, took statements out of context after asking questions that can not have "good sounding" answers

My thoughts on T.O. and the media said in another post:



Basically I agree with the majority in that T.O. made his own bed, but I'd just add that ESPN and other media outlets were probably there right beside him to fluff the pillow.

I would have to agree with you on that one Pudge.

Anyone heard the latest on Chad Johnson? Apparently, he put his WR coach in a headlock at halftime of their playoff loss to the Steelers & also took a swing at Coach Lewis as well when he tried to break it up. ESPN has already labeled him "A T.O. waiting to happen", despite the fact that he carried SportCenter with his hillarious quips, the chart, and his endzone dances; throughout the football season. It's so sad how hypocritical ESPN is towards athletes, especially the black ones.