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 Post subject: Racial lines on the Vick issue
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:39 pm 
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I was watching NFL Live today, and they had Furman Bisher from the AJC up there talking about the racial politics and dividing lines that the Vick issue has raised in the city of Atlanta.

Bisher said that he doesn't think race has anything to do with it. Clearly, this guys is out of touch.

They said on ESPN a stat somewhere around 55% of white people believe that the Falcons should cut Vick today, while only 26% of blacks feel the same way. That stat right there clearly shows race is involved.

Doesn't mean you're a racist for thinking that Vick should be released or disciplined. But to deny that there is a racial dividing line, and race isn't playing a factor, even a subconscious one is just being naive.

It boils down pretty simply: Generally blacks are willing to give Vick the benefit of the doubt, while whites are not.

There's no doubt in my mind that if it were Peyton Manning facing these charges, the situation would be different. Vick might be considered one of the faces of the NFL, but Peyton Manning is the face of the NFL. He and Tom Brady are basically the only 2 NFL players that can be in commercials and are widely recognizable without having to dawn their own uniforms or be identified by caption or voiceover at the beginning of the ad. Manning, although may not have quite as much international fame as Michael Jordan, he's probably on the same level as MJ within this country.

Of course, plenty of people would be just as condemning with Manning as opposed to Vick. But the majority of people i.e. whites? C'mon, if you believe that, then you're crazy. The media coverage would probably be the same if not much more, but would there be as much immediate clamoring for Peyton to be cut or suspended? Maybe from PETA, but not from your average joe. Is the sitch different because Manning is coming off a Super Bowl win and doesn't have any off-field run-ins compared to Vick? Perhaps, but to pretend race isn't a significant factor is naive. You bet if Vick had been accused of sexual harassment as Manning was a few years back, we would continue to be reminded of it just as we are as the Ron Mexico thing is today.

Race is a huge issue in this country, and people that pretend it is not are suspicious to me as closet racists. The first African slaves arrived in this country in 1619 in Jamestown, VA, one year prior to when the Puritans landed on Plymouth Rock, which I'm sure is a little known fact to America as a whole. To pretend that race will not be a huge issue in this country is to pretend that roughly 350 years of institutionalized racism that existed in this country didn't exist. You can't erase that in the roughly 40 years that it has not existed. We're only 1-2 generations removed from that.

Slavery and racism is something that is deepened woven into the fabric of history that is America. And to pretend otherwise is shameful.

I do think there is a day that race won't be as big an issue here as it is now or was then, but I'm betting that day won't come until I'm long dead or even my kids are long dead. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be trying to build the bridges. Every day is 1 day and 1 step closer.

One of the things I find most offensive as a black man is when I hear people say, "Oh look he's playing the race card." That statement IMO denies the fact that a generation or so ago, it was impossible in many parts of this country for a black man and other minorities to get a fair trial or fair shake. Should the errors of the past affect those today. No, it probably shouldn't, but we all know that things that should or shouldn't be, aren't often are.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:26 pm 
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Good post,...but I'm gonna have to vary from one of your thought-lines.

We should never ever use the race card again. IMO, it's cowardice and irresponsible and is pretty damn much an excuse.

There was a white head ref recently try to sue the NFL because he was fired because some black refs complained he gave them poor grades on officiating games. It works both ways,...who is this guy to suggest only black refs complained for his grades? I'll bet money that some white refs complained too!

Terrence Moore has already backed off his stance that the reason Vick is this target is cause he's black. But Moore is the ultimate race baiter, so we'll keep an eye on him. He said today that,..."there's no way Michael Vick plays this season as an Atlanta Falcon."

We know who fights dogs,...I been tellin' ya'll this for the last three months.lol We know who fights chickens. We know who this and we know who that.

Blacks were easy on O.J., whites not so much,...it's just a thang as we said in the old days,...what's there to say about it except know what it is?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:15 pm 
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You guys are falling for it...

This is the EXACT same strategy that has been used time and time again...if the person is guilty beyond the shadow of a doubt, then you have to use the race card to try to shield your client, and confuse the masses.

People say, ''I don't see why on earth they're playing the race card''..Well, let me tell you why...Because it works.

You start getting Al Sharpton and his crew all riled up, and protesting, and they will get support, and the snowball effect happens, and before you know it...we've kinda forgotten about what the accused actually did, and are more focused on color. We're left debating useless topics about how this is a black/white issue, when in reality, you've been sucked into a downward spiral of lies and diversionary tactics.

Don't fall for it guys...keep your heads level, and look at the FACTS...Don't let them play head games with you.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:15 pm 
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I'm not saying that Vick is being prosecuted because of his race. I'm just saying that the general public (and somewhat the media's) reaction to his being prosecuted is largely determined by race.

As I said, that quoted poll says that the Falcons should cut Vick. By saying the Falcons should cut Vick now basically implies not just a suspicion of guilt, but rather the lack of a suspicion of innocence.

It basically breaks down that blacks generally believe that Vick might be a criminal, while whites believe that he is a criminal.

I'm talking mostly about the court of public opinion. Whites say "Fry him!" while Blacks are like "Wait, hold on a minute..."


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:56 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
Whites say "Fry him!"


This is an unacceptable statement. I find this totally,...unacceptable in today's climate.

So whites wanna fry Vick? Please show where whites want Vick fried please?

We're losing our s*** here and this ain't right. I'm not above being guilty of the same thing.

We've got to get back together as fans. Like that will happen any time soon.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:11 am 
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Pudge wrote:
I'm not saying that Vick is being prosecuted because of his race. I'm just saying that the general public (and somewhat the media's) reaction to his being prosecuted is largely determined by race.

As I said, that quoted poll says that the Falcons should cut Vick. By saying the Falcons should cut Vick now basically implies not just a suspicion of guilt, but rather the lack of a suspicion of innocence.

It basically breaks down that blacks generally believe that Vick might be a criminal, while whites believe that he is a criminal.

I'm talking mostly about the court of public opinion. Whites say "Fry him!" while Blacks are like "Wait, hold on a minute..."



Where do you get your info from?...Do you believe what some guy ''says the numbers are'', or have you actually went out and asked people for yourself?

I think there's ALOOOOT of assumptions going on here...

For one, Define ''white''...Is it simply non black, or could there have been several people that just put ''white'' because(A. there were only Two color choices, and white was the default if no choice was made, or (B thier race wasn't represented, so they put white as a default, or (C they were trying to lean the poll to thier favor...Or, maybe the whole poll was flawed to begin with?

Funny how, out of the blue, people can come up with a poll to prove any ''injustice'' they want...

How many people participated in the poll?...Which State was it condicted in? , and how?, or was it an internet poll?, and was there a One vote limit if it was a net poll?

Way too many variables to be calling it a fact...or even a ballpark figure really.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:21 am 
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Everyone makes mistakes,...you and me and everyone.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:45 am 
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"Fry him" is a figure of speech equating to "prosecuting to the furthest extent of the law."

And no, I don't know what the exact figures on the poll are.

And yes, I'm generalizing. But the point here is not to prove that I'm correct, but to generate discussion about the topic.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:59 pm 
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It would be foolish to think that there are not racists who didn't like Vick being a high-profile black QB and are absolutely relishing his fall from grace. That said, there are equally racist people of color who have the attitude that he could do no wrong, and the feds/cops have it in for Vick. I can't give numbers, but I have personally seen people from both sides who have no problem giving me their opinions because they know I am a Falcons fan, and was a huge Vick fan as well.

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 Post subject: From a Blog on AF.com
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:12 pm 
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Maybe it's just me.



Maybe it's because I'm a Black Male.



Maybe it's because I view Athletes only for what they do 'Between The Lines' and could care less about their lives 'Outside The Lines'.

I say all this because after now having ENDURED damn near 2 YEARS of "Barry Bonds" HATING ~ as if he were the 20th hijacker on 911 ~ and now this 'Michael Vick' tar & feathering ...... I've come to the conclusion that deep, DEEP, in the hearts, guts, and brains of mostly 'White Males', there STILL exists this animosity and primal (damn near Neanderthal) racial HATRED toward High Priced Athletes of Color! And I say this because you'll never see White Male Athletes dragged through the mud and PUBLICLY Lynched and made RUINED to the extent as you see Brothas.



NEVER!!



Babe Ruth was a DRUNK; Ty Cobb was a virile and open Racist; Wayne Gretzky ( and wife) was no doubt 'fast and loose' with the money; Mark McGwire put needles in his ass with the full knowledge of adoring White Male sportwriters covering his remarkable year; Bret Favre is a 'Dope Head' and alcoholic; John Daly OBVIOUSLY abused his wife (yet there he was today participating in the British Open ~ hassle free) and on-and-on-and-on ..... yet these same White Sportswriters that "no big deal" it when it comes to the failings of White Athletes, are the same that stand eager and ready to LYNCH Blacks at the slightest hint of impropriety and Falling From Grace!



You know what: If I were a White Male that carried around with me THIS MUCH 'HATE' toward Black Athletes, hell I wouldn't attend Professional Games nor watch it on TV!



If Black Athletes were truly this BAD and such awful Role Models for your kids, White Males, then simply have your little 'crumb snatchers' play only soccer (stay away from competing with Mexican kids though), or tennis (not too many Blakes or William Sisters around), or Golf (not too many Tiger Woods out there either). That way you and your precious innocent children won't have to COMPETE with Black Males on an Equal Playing Field ~ you know .... just as y'all do in the Business World!



OJ Simpson, Barry Bonds, and now Michael Vick: the White Males worst Nightmares!



Hell, I've heard more intense OUTRAGE over the alleged failings of these 3 Brothers than any criticism of George Bush ~ and Bush is responsible for killing THOUSANDS!





This latest Brotha that White America wants to LYNCH (Vick) has been targeted by these White Sportswriters for YEARS now: but it ain't about 'Dog Fights' ~ not really. Its about the color of Vicks's skin and the fact he dare play the position of QB in the NFL!!



It's no more about 'Dog Fighting' (which BTW has occurred in this country longer than most who read this Blog are themselves 'years old'), then 'steroid use' is the so-called SIN (??) that these sad 'White Sportswriters' hang around the neck of Barry Bonds.



And how about these so-called "Baseball Purists" (again WHITE), that bitch and moan how Bonds is ruining the Game and should have an asterisk placed beside his Home Run Records.





Baseball!





A Game that wouldn't allow a Black Man near the Park until Jackie Robinson came along and ATE all kinds of indignities and humiliations .... not too very long ago! Yet to listen to these Sportswriters and so-called 'Baseball Purists' one would think that all that has ever been wrong with Baseball is Barry Bonds fault!





What a frickin' JOKE!!





Nothin' but EXCUSES to Lynch another 'uppity nigga'!





OJ wasfound "Not Guilty" in a Court of Law .....



The Feds have yet to indict Barry Bonds after 3 YEARS ......





And Micheal Vick's day in court has yet to take place; yet in the arena of 'Public Opinion' (White Public Opinion, I might add), none of the above were ever given the DECENCY & Right of being accorded the so-called cherished Constitutional Pillar of "Assumed INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty!"





Oh, well. I've witnessed TWO Public Lynchings (Simpson and Bonds); so what's a third, huh!





TWENTY-FOUR HOURS of nothin' but "Michael Vick" yesterday.



24 HOURS of nonstop 'Vick HATING' today!







Oh, to be 'White' in America.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:15 pm 
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Sorry, but all this race stuff is goint to tear this board up. Honkey, Bubba, Whitey should be buried along with the "N" word. Race has no place in a sports forum, even in the lounge.

I'm a white, Irish American born in NYC. My ancestors were persecuted by the British and many came to this country as Indentured Servants (another name for a slave). That was then, this is now. Get over it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:26 pm 
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John O wrote:
Sorry, but all this race stuff is goint to tear this board up. Honkey, Bubba, Whitey should be buried along with the "N" word. Race has no place in a sports forum, even in the lounge.

I'm a white, Irish American born in NYC. My ancestors were persecuted by the British and many came to this country as Indentured Servants (another name for a slave). That was then, this is now. Get over it.


Hey John...I think this board is different from the others out there. We can discuss components of the problem without falling into the name calling etc. I posted the above article as an example of how the pro-Vick side is attempting to turn this whole deal into a racial issue, when it is clearly not. I don't believe in editing the post as the person who wrote it needed to vent his own personal emotional state. I applaud the members of this board and how they have handled the hard issues without falling into the same race baiting as other boards.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:38 pm 
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[quote="BirdBrain
Hey John...I think this board is different from the others out there. We can discuss components of the problem without falling into the name calling etc. I posted the above article as an example of how the pro-Vick side is attempting to turn this whole deal into a racial issue, when it is clearly not. I don't believe in editing the post as the person who wrote it needed to vent his own personal emotional state. I applaud the members of this board and how they have handled the hard issues without falling into the same race baiting as other boards.[/quote]

Sorry BB, but I was not only addressing your post. That's why i didn't quote it. Just commenting on the whole race issue tied to the Vick issue.

IMHO, race should not be an issue unless it's a race related crime.

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