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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:01 pm 
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here is what Birdbrain said:

"I'm just happy the SOB will NEVER play for the Falcons again. I will be happy when a team finally signs him so the Scrotum Clutchers can go root for their new team. Making excuses for the 30th ranked QB in the league, and a convicted felon is really taking the high road in the grand tradition of buying Ted Bundy's underwear on E-Bay."
''


I didn't forget what the conversation was about at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:06 pm 
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BirdBrain wrote:
You appear to be losing focus in the heat of battle. No one suggested the rushing yards don't count. We were discussing his PASSING ratings, not his rushing stats. Rushing the ball hurt Vick's development as a passer. It also caused a mindset that let other teams take advantage defensively , leading to poor throws and poor mechanics. It also increased the number of sacks that he took, as he would abandon the pocket too early and run right into the waiting arms of a 300 pounder. There is a very good reason that the NFL isn't a rushing QB's paradise. Good defensive coaches caught up to vick, making his style obsolete.



He was in the top 10 in total yards and TDs in 2006.

Was tied at 13th-15th scoring via the pass in 2006. We were 22nd-23rd last year by the way.


In 2006, it wasn't our QB's game that was hurting us...it was the lack of the big back. We could not score on the ground...period.


Look at the last 3 seasons and tell me what you make of this:

scoring via pass rank:
2008: 22nd - 23rd(tied with other team)
2007: 20th - 22nd (tied with other teams)
2006: 13th - 15th (tied with other teams)

scoring via rush rank:
2008: 3rd
2007: 28th-29th (tied)
2006: 23rd - 26th(tied)


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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:17 pm 
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I read the court docs fun gus back in 2007. Don't have them in front of me, but IIRC Vick did start his venture in 2001 and 2002. But he spent the first 2-3 years building it up. They were buying dogs, breeding dogs, and training dogs. They really didn't begin the going across the country to secret dog fights until 2004 or so. Nothing overtly suspicious in a guy who owns a kennel and supposedly breeding pit bulls. Yes, if you are one of those people that believe any black person that likes pits is a dog fighter. But at least in this case, I don't think Arthur Blank was one of those people. It's no different than the guy that smuggles coke out of Colombia that spends the first few years getting his pilot's license and spending a lot of vacation time surfing in Costa Rica, Panama.

Bad Newz is a nickname for the city of Newport News, Virginia (my hometown) because of its high crime rate over some of the other cities int he Tidewater/Hampton Roads region. To an outsider looking it, the name Bad Newz is an obvious indicator to nefarious activity. To anybody familiar with the area, it means absolutely nothing. It's no different than someone from Newark calling their business venture "Brick City whatever ..." or "Sin City ...." from a person from Vegas.

I'm sure Blank was well aware that Vick was from "Bad Newz, Virginia" and thought nothing of it when he discovered that Vick had named his business venture as such.

And I still don't see why these incidents would make a person like Blank connect the dots. Sure, someone that already saw black guy, Bad Newz, pit bulls and was initially suspicious of Vick's business venture, and then see some minor legal transgressions might think "Oh, no, we better check this thing out."

But I don't see how Arthur Blank should have been that person.

Was Blank naive? Short-sighted? Foolhardy? If you want, you can certainly label him as such. But I wouldn't say he was fully cognizant of the illegal activities in Virginia, nor would I say he was probably suspicious of illegal activities. Not Michael Vick! Not my favorite son. So, he's surrounded himself with some nefarious characters. Happens all the time. But Mike has a good heart, is a low-key family man, no way would he be capable of doing something this cruel.

IMHO, that's exactly the thought process that Blank had come April 2007 when he most likely first became aware of this stuff.

Oh and for the record, I agree something fishy did occur at the Miami airport. It's not illegal, but it operates outside standard operating procedure for evidence to be destroyed. Was it a conspiracy concocted by all those sources mentioned? Probably not. But someone decided that it wasn't in someone's best interest if that evidence still existed.

thesouphead wrote:
In 2006, the difference between Brady and Vick was 7.4 yards a game and 0.75 points a game. That makes me very curious as to how Vick could be the 30th ranked QB.

And when you look beyond yards and points, then you see a huge difference between Vick and Brady. Otherwise, if we just looked at those measures, then in 2006 Jon Kitna was an elite QB as well.

There are 4 passing factors that go into a passer rating: completion %, touchdown %, interception %, and average yards per attempt. Pro Football Reference (the site I usually use for my site research) has also added adjusted yards per attempt (AYA), net yards per attempt (which basically accounts for yards lost due to sacks), and adjusted net yards per attempt (ANYA). I won't get too much into detail into AYA and ANYA, but their research has usually indicated that AYA and ANYA (more so than passer rating) tend to be more reflective of what most people feel are the great QBs. At least when you adjust those numbers to what were the league averages at the time. For example, in 1964 Johnny Unitas had a career high in AYA, which was 9.0. In 1964, the average QB in the NFL had an AYA of 4.6. In 2004, Daunte Culpepper had an AYA of 8.4 (his career high), but the league average in that year was 5.6. So you can interpret that as for every pass attempt Johnny U got +4.4 yards than the average QB of his time. While Culpepper's best year, he was "only" +2.8. Still good, but it's indicative of why Unitas is considered a great player because he was significantly better than his peers, while Daunte at his best was just considered good because he wasn't nearly to the same degree. As for ANYA, it just is AYA with sacks included.

IMO, when you are comparing QBs, I think it's essential to do what Pro Football Reference does and compare it to the average QB at the time.

So looking at those 4 rating categories, plus the 3 added measures from PFR, in 2006, he was what the average QB had:

Completion% = 59.8
Touchdown% = 4.0
Interception% = 3.2
Average Yards/Attempt = 6.40
Adjusted Yards/Attempt (AYA) 5.4
Net Yards/Attempt = 5.6
Adj. Net Yards/Attempt = 6.6

Now look at Vick:

Comp = 52.6
TD = 5.2
INT = 3.4
Avg = 6.38
AYA = 5.4
NYA = 5.0
ANYA = 4.1

Now Brady:

Comp = 61.8
TD = 4.0
INT = 2.3
Avg = 6.84
AYA = 6.3
NYA = 6.2
ANYA = 5.6

Now, by examining this year, you discover that Brady was "below average" in only 1 area: ANYA. He was average in TD%, but every other category he waas better than your average QB in 2006.

On the other hand, Vick was above average in only 1 category: TD%. He was average in Avg, and slightly below average in INTs, but was significantly below average in the remaining 4 categories.

So now you should start to understand why Vick can't hold Brady's jock.

And the factor that people keep forgetting that try desperately to compare Vick with the greats of his era is the most important test of all: the Eyeball test.

There's simply no way that anybody watching Vick play and Brady play would compare the two together. I used to be a Brady hater, until I was in the Dome that day in '05 where Brady played a near perfect game against the Falcons.

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:29 pm 
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that is great Pudge...but as said before...rushing yards count.



nobody is going to say that Vick was a great passer...but to he did produce and that is what counts.

Production...Getting yards and points. Agree or disagree?


or am I missing the rule where teams get exta points for the QB having a good completion percentage?


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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:31 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
There's simply no way that anybody watching Vick play and Brady play would compare the two together. I used to be a Brady hater, until I was in the Dome that day in '05 where Brady played a near perfect game against the Falcons.



Brady is the better QB....no doubt. but they still produced about the same in that 2006 season.



even when look at the turnover/yard's gained relationship


2006:

Andrew Walter:1 turnover for every 78 yards gained.
Charlie Frye:1 turnover for every 111 yards gained.
Rex Grossman: 1 turnover for every 128 yards gained.
Plummer: 1 turnover for every 140 yards gained.
Harrington:1 turnover for every 141 yards gained.
Jon Kitna: 1 turnover for every 141 yards gained.
Ben Roethlisberger: 1 turnover for every 144 yards gained.
A Smith: 1 turnover for every 145 yards gained.
B Johnson:1 turnover for every 149 yards gained.
Losman:1 turnover for every 152 yards gained.
Carr:1 turnover for every 156 yards gained.
Eli Manning: 1 turnover for every 163 yards gained.
Brett Favre: 1 turnover for every 170 yards gained.
V Young1 turnover for every 172 yards gained.
Garrard: 1 turnover for every 180 yards gained.
M Leinart:1 turnover for every 185 yards gained.
Delhomme:1 turnover for every 188 yards gained.
Tony Romo:1 turnover for every 188 yards gained.
Chad Pennington:1 turnover for every 220 yards gained.
Carson Palmer: 1 turnover for every 204 yards gained.
M Hasselbeck:1 turnover for every 209 yards gained.
Mike Vick: 1 turnover for every 220 yards gained.
Tom Brady: 1 turnover for every 227 yards gained.

McNair:1 turnover for every 244 yards gained.
P Rivers:1 turnover for every 312 yards gained.
D Huard:1 turnover for every 315 yards gained.
Drew Brees: 1 turnover for every 318 yards gained.
McNabb:1 turnover for every 357 yards gained.
M Brunell:1 turnover for every 365 yards gained.
Marc Bulger 1 turnover for every 395 yards gained.
P Manning: 1 turnover for every 443 yards gained.


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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:33 pm 
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this is where the crux of our disagreement lies

"Nothing overtly suspicious in a guy who owns a kennel and supposedly breeding pit bulls. Yes, if you are one of those people that believe any black person that likes pits is a dog fighter..."

First, it was not 'supposedly', the guy had 37 pit bull dogs. FIGHTING dogs. Now, any man black or white, has a few Pits, I give him the benefit of the doubt. But 37?! C'mon, man. I dont care if he is white or black, you got a compound with that many pits on it, something is not right.

Jay Leno has a whole garage full of hot rods. Do you think he likes to speed?

Let's say Donald Trump buys a farm full of thoroughbred racehorses, think he likes to see a race or two?

Charlie Sheen buys a controlling share of the World Famous Bunny Ranch. Think he might like to bang a prostitute now and then?

But Mike Vick has 37 pits and isn't a 'dogfighter'. Riiiight.

I'm not saying Blank was in the know and did nothing, or was completelty ignorant. Only, that in hindsight, it sure seems pretty naive. And I will bet you he learned hard from that mistake and will not repeat it.

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:39 pm 
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I think you are probably pretty accurate about Blank's outlook, Pudge. AB is a gentleman if nothing else and would consider it a betrayal of sorts to investigate Mike behind his back. He may not feel that way ever again about anyone but that is probably how he saw it then. There's a decent chance he was unaware there was such a thing as dog fighting. You mention the stereotypical white man's view that a black guy with a pit must be a dog fighter. My first cousin was jogging in Macon in the park years back and a black guy began running behind her. She was a little scared but she said she thought, "You know, people always suspect a guy just because he's black." The guy jumped her, tied her up with her shoe strings, brutally raped her and almost strangled her to death. Sometimes you have to put aside the old White Guilt thing and go with your gut. There was always a lot of context with Vick--part of it being Marcus, etc. Sometimes a duck is a duck.

It's kind of funny that a guy like Kobe Bryant still gets ad dollars and is a marquee player in the NBA. At the risk of jumping to conclusions, I would say his money and fame saved his skin. To use BB's suggestion, I suspect if a video were made available of what he did that the American public might have a hard time pulling for #24. The "huggers" will say he was set up by a gold digger. The million dollar ring he bought his gold digger, I mean, wife, to placate her suggests otherwise to me. But no dogs died and I've felt lust in my heart before so...

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:55 pm 
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fun gus wrote:

1.)First, it was not 'supposedly', the guy had 37 pit bull dogs. FIGHTING dogs. Now, any man black or white, has a few Pits, I give him the benefit of the doubt. But 37?! C'mon, man. I dont care if he is white or black, you got a compound with that many pits on it, something is not right.

2.)Jay Leno has a whole garage full of hot rods. Do you think he likes to speed?



1.) Vick openly talked about being a breeder, so having lots of one type of dog would not be that unusual.

2.) Would you accuse Leno having running a car theft ring?



ps - Leno has lots of slow cars in his shop. : )


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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:01 pm 
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BNB, if there were a video of KB's sexual transgressions it would be a huge seller. People are inherently voyeuristic and would love to see how the whole thing really went down. Sex sells, torturing and killing dogs doesn't.

By the way it has been pretty much accepted by the everyone concerned that the sex was consensual , and at some point in the act it became something else. The girl was caught lying many times during the trail. It was in KB's best interest to pay her off(what she waited in the first place), and hope it would fade away.

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:16 pm 
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fun gus wrote:
this is where the crux of our disagreement lies

"Nothing overtly suspicious in a guy who owns a kennel and supposedly breeding pit bulls. Yes, if you are one of those people that believe any black person that likes pits is a dog fighter..."

First, it was not 'supposedly', the guy had 37 pit bull dogs. FIGHTING dogs. Now, any man black or white, has a few Pits, I give him the benefit of the doubt. But 37?! C'mon, man. I dont care if he is white or black, you got a compound with that many pits on it, something is not right.

Jay Leno has a whole garage full of hot rods. Do you think he likes to speed?

Let's say Donald Trump buys a farm full of thoroughbred racehorses, think he likes to see a race or two?

Charlie Sheen buys a controlling share of the World Famous Bunny Ranch. Think he might like to bang a prostitute now and then?

But Mike Vick has 37 pits and isn't a 'dogfighter'. Riiiight.

I'm not saying Blank was in the know and did nothing, or was completelty ignorant. Only, that in hindsight, it sure seems pretty naive. And I will bet you he learned hard from that mistake and will not repeat it.

Yes, but did Arthur Blank know exactly how many dogs Vick had. As far as Blank was concerned, in their "talks", Vick proabbly said he was a dog lover, loved pit bulls, and was starting a business to breed them.

How would Blank know that there were 37 pits locked in cages on the property in Surry? Only if Vick told him. And why would Vick tell him the intricate details of the idea?

Blank probably didn't know there were 37 pits. He probably thought there were 8 pits. And I don't see how he could make that jump to "OMG! Mike is a dog fighter!"

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:20 pm 
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BirdBrain wrote:
BNB, if there were a video of KB's sexual transgressions it would be a huge seller. People are inherently voyeuristic and would love to see how the whole thing really went down. Sex sells, torturing and killing dogs doesn't.

By the way it has been pretty much accepted by the everyone concerned that the sex was consensual , and at some point in the act it became something else. The girl was caught lying many times during the trail. It was in KB's best interest to pay her off(what she waited in the first place), and hope it would fade away.

I guess that leaves him as Face of the Franchise! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 7:03 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
fun gus wrote:
this is where the crux of our disagreement lies

"Nothing overtly suspicious in a guy who owns a kennel and supposedly breeding pit bulls. Yes, if you are one of those people that believe any black person that likes pits is a dog fighter..."

First, it was not 'supposedly', the guy had 37 pit bull dogs. FIGHTING dogs. Now, any man black or white, has a few Pits, I give him the benefit of the doubt. But 37?! C'mon, man. I dont care if he is white or black, you got a compound with that many pits on it, something is not right.

Jay Leno has a whole garage full of hot rods. Do you think he likes to speed?

Let's say Donald Trump buys a farm full of thoroughbred racehorses, think he likes to see a race or two?

Charlie Sheen buys a controlling share of the World Famous Bunny Ranch. Think he might like to bang a prostitute now and then?

But Mike Vick has 37 pits and isn't a 'dogfighter'. Riiiight.

I'm not saying Blank was in the know and did nothing, or was completelty ignorant. Only, that in hindsight, it sure seems pretty naive. And I will bet you he learned hard from that mistake and will not repeat it.

Yes, but did Arthur Blank know exactly how many dogs Vick had. As far as Blank was concerned, in their "talks", Vick proabbly said he was a dog lover, loved pit bulls, and was starting a business to breed them.

How would Blank know that there were 37 pits locked in cages on the property in Surry? Only if Vick told him. And why would Vick tell him the intricate details of the idea?

Blank probably didn't know there were 37 pits. He probably thought there were 8 pits. And I don't see how he could make that jump to "OMG! Mike is a dog fighter!"



Well, I guess I can see your point there and I should extend the benefit of the doubt to Blank...But if you knew somebody that owned 8 Alligators, instead of 37, you might still think that a little odd..He probably did not know about dogfighting, so I can see where he might not have expected it. But, the people he pays to figure this stuff out must have dropped the ball? However, the 'line' about him being a 'gentleman' who would never 'spy' is priceless! BnB, you gotta go ask the CEO of Lowes about that.

I had a tenant apply in one of my rental units that had a Pit, and my insurance company said 'no way, Jose'. And literally, the guy's name was Jose :lol: Not like I was gonna rent to a pit owner anyways, but in trendy, newly 'punky funky' East Atlanta owning one is all the rage. That's why I keep a special sidearm locked up under the porch, a couple years ago one got in and tore up one of my Beagles something awful. I had to hit the damn thing with a shovel breaking his ribs to get him to let go. FREEKED out my wife terribly. The only thing a loose pit on my property needs to fear more then me, the good Lord and the Animal Control officers is my angry wife. Hell hath no fury!

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 7:11 pm 
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fun gus wrote:
Pudge wrote:
fun gus wrote:
this is where the crux of our disagreement lies

"Nothing overtly suspicious in a guy who owns a kennel and supposedly breeding pit bulls. Yes, if you are one of those people that believe any black person that likes pits is a dog fighter..."

First, it was not 'supposedly', the guy had 37 pit bull dogs. FIGHTING dogs. Now, any man black or white, has a few Pits, I give him the benefit of the doubt. But 37?! C'mon, man. I dont care if he is white or black, you got a compound with that many pits on it, something is not right.

Jay Leno has a whole garage full of hot rods. Do you think he likes to speed?

Let's say Donald Trump buys a farm full of thoroughbred racehorses, think he likes to see a race or two?

Charlie Sheen buys a controlling share of the World Famous Bunny Ranch. Think he might like to bang a prostitute now and then?

But Mike Vick has 37 pits and isn't a 'dogfighter'. Riiiight.

I'm not saying Blank was in the know and did nothing, or was completelty ignorant. Only, that in hindsight, it sure seems pretty naive. And I will bet you he learned hard from that mistake and will not repeat it.

Yes, but did Arthur Blank know exactly how many dogs Vick had. As far as Blank was concerned, in their "talks", Vick proabbly said he was a dog lover, loved pit bulls, and was starting a business to breed them.

How would Blank know that there were 37 pits locked in cages on the property in Surry? Only if Vick told him. And why would Vick tell him the intricate details of the idea?

Blank probably didn't know there were 37 pits. He probably thought there were 8 pits. And I don't see how he could make that jump to "OMG! Mike is a dog fighter!"



Well, I guess I can see your point there and I should extend the benefit of the doubt to Blank...But if you knew somebody that owned 8 Alligators, instead of 37, you might still think that a little odd..He probably did not know about dogfighting, so I can see where he might not have expected it. But, the people he pays to figure this stuff out must have dropped the ball? However, the 'line' about him being a 'gentleman' who would never 'spy' is priceless! BnB, you gotta go ask the CEO of Lowes about that.

I had a tenant apply in one of my rental units that had a Pit, and my insurance company said 'no way, Jose'. And literally, the guy's name was Jose :lol: Not like I was gonna rent to a pit owner anyways, but in trendy, newly 'punky funky' East Atlanta owning one is all the rage. That's why I keep a special sidearm locked up under the porch, a couple years ago one got in and tore up one of my Beagles something awful. I had to hit the damn thing with a shovel breaking his ribs to get him to let go. FREEKED out my wife terribly. The only thing a loose pit on my property needs to fear more then me, the good Lord and the Animal Control officers is my angry wife. Hell hath no fury!

Spying on your competition and spying on your "son" are pretty different. If we want to generalize like that...you and Ookie both hit pits with a shovel. time for you to start doing your 23 months! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 8:15 pm 
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fun gus wrote:
Pudge wrote:
fun gus wrote:
this is where the crux of our disagreement lies

"Nothing overtly suspicious in a guy who owns a kennel and supposedly breeding pit bulls. Yes, if you are one of those people that believe any black person that likes pits is a dog fighter..."

First, it was not 'supposedly', the guy had 37 pit bull dogs. FIGHTING dogs. Now, any man black or white, has a few Pits, I give him the benefit of the doubt. But 37?! C'mon, man. I dont care if he is white or black, you got a compound with that many pits on it, something is not right.

Jay Leno has a whole garage full of hot rods. Do you think he likes to speed?

Let's say Donald Trump buys a farm full of thoroughbred racehorses, think he likes to see a race or two?

Charlie Sheen buys a controlling share of the World Famous Bunny Ranch. Think he might like to bang a prostitute now and then?

But Mike Vick has 37 pits and isn't a 'dogfighter'. Riiiight.

I'm not saying Blank was in the know and did nothing, or was completelty ignorant. Only, that in hindsight, it sure seems pretty naive. And I will bet you he learned hard from that mistake and will not repeat it.

Yes, but did Arthur Blank know exactly how many dogs Vick had. As far as Blank was concerned, in their "talks", Vick proabbly said he was a dog lover, loved pit bulls, and was starting a business to breed them.

How would Blank know that there were 37 pits locked in cages on the property in Surry? Only if Vick told him. And why would Vick tell him the intricate details of the idea?

Blank probably didn't know there were 37 pits. He probably thought there were 8 pits. And I don't see how he could make that jump to "OMG! Mike is a dog fighter!"



Well, I guess I can see your point there and I should extend the benefit of the doubt to Blank...But if you knew somebody that owned 8 Alligators, instead of 37, you might still think that a little odd..He probably did not know about dogfighting, so I can see where he might not have expected it. But, the people he pays to figure this stuff out must have dropped the ball? However, the 'line' about him being a 'gentleman' who would never 'spy' is priceless! BnB, you gotta go ask the CEO of Lowes about that.

I had a tenant apply in one of my rental units that had a Pit, and my insurance company said 'no way, Jose'. And literally, the guy's name was Jose :lol: Not like I was gonna rent to a pit owner anyways, but in trendy, newly 'punky funky' East Atlanta owning one is all the rage. That's why I keep a special sidearm locked up under the porch, a couple years ago one got in and tore up one of my Beagles something awful. I had to hit the damn thing with a shovel breaking his ribs to get him to let go. FREEKED out my wife terribly. The only thing a loose pit on my property needs to fear more then me, the good Lord and the Animal Control officers is my angry wife. Hell hath no fury!

Look I get it fun gus. If someone (Blank included) knew of the 37 pits, they should have been able to put two and two together. I'm just saying that I doubt Blank knew.

Look, I'm sure there was somebody within the organization that had a "clue." Ray Buchanan intimated as much when he said that teammates knew about (a statement he would later retract and deny).

But I doubt that person was Blank. And it's not surprising that these people didn't pass it up the food chain as I said earlier. Vick being the "prodigal son" alone probably was enough of a deterrent to keep someone from "snitching." But probably the main reason is that most people didn't see it as a big deal. Frankly, until June 2007 (when the feds got involved), I didn't see it as a big deal either.

DMX the rapper dropped his first album in 1998, and it only takes listening to one DMX song to have a suspicion that he was/is involved in dog fighting. Yet, I don't recall many people protesting and attempting to boycott his music over the course of any of the 6 studio albums he released from 1998 to 2006. DMX didn't' get into his first trouble stemming from animal cruelty & dog fighting until 2007, coincidentally the same time Vick got into trouble for the same thing.

For all those individuals before April 2007 that saw this coming, good for you. I award you 200 cool points, you can spend or save them however you deem fit. I just think it's wrong to criticize Blank for not seeing it coming and for his ignorance. Was it naive ignorance? Probably. But I still think it was genuine ignorance nonetheless.

I always remember a funny line from Magnum P.I., T.C. implores to a bad guy about Rick: "Don't kill him! He's just stupid."

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 8:24 pm 
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Very true, Pudge. And the knowledge in the locker room is just one more example of the hypocrisy and over the top outrage about this thing. The HSUS knew they had a PR jewel with this case. Heck, they had even had agents on the grounds write citations about insufficient water bowls for the dogs. Did they know what they were looking at?

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:25 am 
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At the request of a poster, I have decided to move all the Vick dominated topics to the Lounge.

Discussion of Vick is welcomed, but since the topics aren't related to the Falcons currently, then we'll adopt the old rule of Vick being "off-topic" from Falcon discussion.

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:55 am 
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Good move Pudge. I like the Lounge. It's relaxing and Joey on the piano is soothing.

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:14 am 
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BirdBrain wrote:
Good move Pudge. I like the Lounge. It's relaxing and Joey on the piano is soothing.


Yeah, but Joey has Liberace disorder....

wait for it....


Great on the piano, but sucks on the organ! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 12:23 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
At the request of a poster, I have decided to move all the Vick dominated topics to the Lounge.

Discussion of Vick is welcomed, but since the topics aren't related to the Falcons currently, then we'll adopt the old rule of Vick being "off-topic" from Falcon discussion.



I don't mind the posts being moved, but to say that Vick topics are not related to the Falcons is just silly. The NFL Network, ESPN, Yahoo Sports, Sports Illustrated and about 1,000 other sports outlets would disagree with you. Mr. Blank and Tommy D would also disagree with you. But it's cool...not like it's hard to click on over to the lounge.


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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 1:52 pm 
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Blank & Thomas D. don't run a message board for current Falcons fans.

This is great!!! If you want to be in the lounge going over and over your Vick stats
(they haven't changed in a couple of years) then that's a great place to be.

Talking current Falcon football is nice to be in a separate spot. Note I said
talking "current Falcon football"

Soup, its sincerely not personal you have lots of good thoughts on
the current Falcon active Roster!!

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:18 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:45 pm 
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backnblack wrote:



Funny ...too bad Phil was killed by his psychotic wife. God , I love symmetry. Anywho....that was shown the night before we blew a 21-6 4th quarter lead to the Packers.The great future Mora friend was the QB...(Millen)

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:50 pm 
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BirdBrain wrote:

How do you remember that lattice of coincidence? Must have been late 80s?

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:59 pm 
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backnblack wrote:
BirdBrain wrote:

How do you remember that lattice of coincidence? Must have been late 80s?


I have a 36 year record in my journals. Everything I've read, seen, and eaten. At the top of the skit is the date, 29 sept 1989...so i went to my 1989 journal and looked it up. I wrote that i was pissed off...lol...didn't see the game...listened to it on the AFN radio.

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 Post subject: Re: Peter King: 5 Places Vick Might Land
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 3:06 pm 
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BirdBrain wrote:
backnblack wrote:
BirdBrain wrote:

How do you remember that lattice of coincidence? Must have been late 80s?


I have a 36 year record in my journals. Everything I've read, seen, and eaten. At the top of the skit is the date, 29 sept 1989...so i went to my 1989 journal and looked it up. I wrote that i was pissed off...lol...didn't see the game...listened to it on the AFN radio.

You can't be serious.... :shock: I'm thinking I may have gone to the game. The only thing I recall was that in a radio interview before the game Millen said he liked classical music. Was he subbing for Archer or perhaps even Miller? around that era our QB situation was a mess. scott Campbell started a game. It mattered not who played in the late 80s. We had a back up running back named Keith somebody i recall having to kick off once. I don't care what anyone says, the era when Hanifan was the interim coach has to be about as bad as the franchise ever got. It was almost funny.

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