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 Post subject: Falcon's after Randy Moss from ESPN Insider
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:28 am 
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I got this info from ESPN Insider Scout Inc,read the part where the falcon's pick on Moss.

2005 NFL draft, projected first round

1. San Francisco 49ers (2-14)
Aaron Rodgers* | QB | California
Like most teams drafting in the top five, the 49ers would like to trade down, stockpile picks and address more needs. The problem, however, is that the top of the 2005 NFL draft is a seller's, not a buyer's market. More than likely, the 49ers' best bet will be to stay put and draft the player they deem to be the most valuable at a high position of need. In our opinion, that player is Rodgers. Neither Tim Rattay nor Ken Dorsey is a franchise quarterback and Rodgers would be a significant upgrade over both. Some feel that Alex Smith (Utah) has the same or better NFL potential, but we don't see it. Rodgers lacks ideal height but he has terrific arm strength, good accuracy and above-average athleticism.

2. Miami Dolphins (4-12)
Ronnie Brown | RB | Auburn
The Dolphins have several needs, including running back, left offensive tackle and defensive end. Coach Nick Saban must first decide if A.J. Feeley is his quarterback of the future. If not, drafting a quarterback would be the right move. If, however, Saban can live with Feeley as his franchise quarterback for the future, drafting one of three top running backs in this class – Cedric Benson, Ronnie Brown and Carnell Williams – becomes the next best move because there simply isn't an offensive tackle who warrants consideration with the second overall pick. Benson might be the more powerful runner and Williams might be the most elusive, but Brown is the best overall running back in this year's draft. Brown is big, strong and fast enough to carry a heavy load in the NFL and he also possesses considerably better skills in the passing game than those Benson and Williams.

3. Cleveland Browns (4-12)
Adam Jones* | DC | West Virginia
Ideally, the Browns would trade down, acquire extra picks and get a better value on one of only two legitimate offensive tackle prospects in this draft class – Alex Barron and Jammal Brown. Assuming, however, they get stuck at No. 3, new GM Phil Savage has to decide whether he wants to draft his quarterback of the future – Smith or Rodgers, depending on which is available – or go in a different direction. Judging by Savage's game plan when he was helping control things in Baltimore, it wouldn't surprise us if he built the team first and then plugged in the quarterback later. If that's the case, the Browns are likely to go after the defensive player who ranks highest on their board. In our opinion right now, that player is Jones. Not only does Jones have the cover skills, speed and toughness to develop into a "shutdown" cornerback in the NFL, but he also has loads of upside as an NFL return specialist. The Browns could really use a playmaker like Jones on defense and special teams.

4. Chicago Bears (5-11)
Braylon Edwards | WR | Michigan
The Bears desperately need a wide receiver who can stretch the field vertically, and Edwards is the best this class has to offer. Some think the Bears will shy away from using another top pick on a Michigan wide receiver, but that theory is ridiculous. For starters, the current regime wasn't in place when the Bears drafted David Terrell. Secondly, Edwards is bigger and faster than Terrell and made far more big plays at the collegiate level than Terrell did. In our opinion, Edwards is the best receiver in this year's draft and has elite NFL potential.

5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (5-11)
Carnell Williams | RB | Auburn
The Buccaneers could go in several different directions with this pick, including RB, OT, OG, DT or DB. Looking at the probabilities regarding how the top of the draft board will unfold, RB is likely to be the position that the Bucs will get their best value with the fifth overall pick. While Benson is a better fit for an offense looking for a load-carrying power runner, Williams is a better fit for Jon Gruden's version of the West Coast offense. Williams still needs to improve as a blocker, but he's the shiftiest and most elusive of the top three backs (Brown and Benson) and he has the hands to become a legitimate weapon as a receiver out of the backfield. It also won't hurt Williams' chances that Gruden fell in love with him while coaching him at the Senior Bowl.

6. Tennessee Titans (5-11)
Antrel Rolle | DC | Miami-FL
With so many questions about the future of veterans Fred Miller and Brad Hopkins, the team's biggest need could be offensive tackle. The problem, however, is that this year's class is void of a legitimate top-10 OT prospect. Instead of reaching for an OT with the sixth pick, look for the Titans to draft a higher-rated player at a different position of need. If the team is unable to re-sign free-agent DC Andre Dyson, cornerback could become a priority early in the draft. Rolle needs to run well in his postseason workouts in order to prove capable of holding up on an island at the next level. Assuming he does, Rolle has the size, instincts, toughness and athletic ability to quickly become a solid starter in the NFL.

7. Oakland Raiders (5-11)
Cedric Benson | RB | Texas
The Raiders would be elated if Benson fell to them at No. 7. Coach Norv Turner's offensive philosophy is to pound it out on the ground with a big, bruising back who can wear the opponent down and eventually open up some vertical opportunities with a play-action pass. The Raiders have a strong enough arm at quarterback with Kerry Collins, the speed at wide receiver and the bruising offensive line to execute that scheme, but what's missing is the "bell-cow" at running back. Benson doesn't have great speed or elusiveness, but he's a north-south runner with great vision, size and power – making him a perfect fit for Turner and the Raiders.

8. Arizona Cardinals (6-10)
Alex Smith* | QB | Utah
The Cardinals still have several needs to address in the upcoming draft, including RB, DT, DC and DE. However, after passing on Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger in last year's draft and coming to the realization that Josh McCown is not the future of the franchise's quarterback position, the Cardinals would love to see either Rodgers or Smith fall to them here. Smith certainly will need time to get bigger and stronger, and to make the transition from the Mountain West Conference to the NFL. But he has the athletic ability, accuracy, toughness and competitiveness to become a franchise quarterback in the NFL, especially with young standout WRs Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald to grow old with.

9. Washington Redskins (6-10)
Mike Williams* | WR | Southern Cal
The Redskins could use an impact, pass-rushing DE or an upgrade at center but Williams would be too good of a fit to pass up on. With inconsistent WR Rod Gardner likely heading out of town, the Redskins need a receiver who can stretch the field and better complement Laveranues Coles. Williams only has serviceable speed and he's been out of football for a year, but he is big enough and athletic enough to develop into a dynamic threat in the NFL.

10. Detroit Lions (6-10)
Heath Miller* | TE | Virginia
The Lions could use playmakers at defensive end and in the secondary, but upgrading the tight end position ranks higher on the wish list. Miller is the only sure-fire first-round prospect this class has to offer. He lacks Todd Heap and Tony Gonzalez-type speed, but he's just a notch below the elite in terms of playmaking ability. Miller has very good size, is a smooth athlete, has a terrific feel for the passing game and might have the best hands of any skill-position player in this draft.

11. Dallas Cowboys (6-10)
Shawne Merriman* | OLB/DE | Maryland
Depending on how the board shakes out, the Cowboys should walk away from the first round with two top prospects from the following four glaring positions of need: DC, DE, WR and OT. Merriman is a "tweener" DE/OLB who may need time before settling in as a full-time starter at one position in the NFL, but he has the speed, athleticism and pass-rushing skills to immediately upgrade the Cowboys' defense in that department.

12. San Diego Chargers (12-4)
Troy Williamson* | WR | South Carolina
Despite their impressive turnaround in 2004, the Chargers still have several positions of need to address. With that in mind, expect the Chargers to stay put with their two picks in the first round (12 and 28). Upgrading their free safety position is a need, but bringing in a vertical threat at wide receiver and an impact pass rushing DE/OLB rank higher on the wish list. Not many people are talking about Williamson right now, but wait until the combine is over. He has the size, long arms, hands and explosive speed to quickly develop into a deep threat in the NFL. Adding a playmaker like Williamson to go along with TE Antonio Gates and RB LaDainian Tomlinson would make the Chargers' offense frightening to match up against – no matter who is the signal-caller.

13. Houston Texans (7-9)
Derrick Johnson | OLB | Texas
The Texans need to get younger along the defensive line and also could use another receiver to help complement Andre Johnson, but passing up on Johnson here would be a mistake. Johnson could slip because of the position he plays, but in our opinion he's the best defensive player in this class. The Texans used a top pick on a pass-rushing OLB in Justin Babin last season but could use a more traditional linebacker to help improve their run defense and pass coverage. Johnson, who has experience inside and outside, is versatile enough to play different roles in the team's 3-4 scheme, and he's athletic and instinctive enough to upgrade the unit in both of the aforementioned areas.

14. Carolina Panthers (7-9)
Alex Barron | OT | Florida State
The team's biggest need is at right tackle, where Matt Willig and Todd Fordham didn't cut it a year ago. The Panthers could go in a different direction if they are unable to re-sign free agent Muhsin Muhammad, but Barron is a decent value at a much bigger position of need. Barron needs to become more physical but he has the size, strength and feet to develop into a starting right or left tackle in the NFL.

15. Kansas City Chiefs (7-9)
Eramus James | DE | Wisconsin
The Chiefs could use a vertical threat like Williamson if he dropped to them here. Otherwise, it's defense, defense, defense again. A pass-rushing defensive end would help most, followed by a corner who can hold up in man-to-man coverage and then an upgrade in terms of athleticism at the linebacker position. In this scenario, the Chiefs would have a tough choice to make between James, DE Dan Cody, DC Brandon Browner and DT Travis Johnson, and James is the best value at the position they need most. James is a risk-reward type prospect because of his injury history. However, he's the best pure pass-rushing DE in this class and he's worth taking a chance on in the middle of the first round.

16. New Orleans Saints (8-8)
Thomas Davis | DS | Georgia
The Saints are starving for an athletic upgrade at linebacker and Davis could be just the answer they are looking for. Davis played OLB early in his collegiate career but moved to DS and became an absolute terror as a sideline-to-sideline run stopper. Davis might not have the range and cover skills to develop into an elite DS in the NFL, but if he can add a few pounds to his 226-pound frame he has a chance to develop into a Derrick Brooks-type OLB in the NFL.

17. Cincinnati Bengals (8-8)
Travis Johnson | DT | Florida State
The Bengals need to use this draft to upgrade the middle of their defense. If Johnson falls to them at No. 17, the Bengals would be elated. After struggling through some off-the-field issues that affected his play early in his career at FSU, Johnson had a breakout season as a full-time starter in 2004. In our opinion, he's the best defensive tackle in this year's draft class and has a chance to make a huge impact early in his NFL career as a one-gap, penetrating DT.

18. Minnesota Vikings (8-8)
Shaun Cody | DE | USC
The Vikings might be looking for a wide receiver if they do indeed part ways with Randy Moss. If not, upgrading their defensive tackle position and secondary become the primary goals in the 2005 draft. If Davis is off the board, there isn't another safety worth reaching for with this pick. Cody is a much better value at a position of equal need, as the Vikings need to replace Chris Hovan at the three-technique position. Cody is a "tweener" DE/DT who would have to move outside to end in most NFL schemes, but he would be a perfect fit as a one-gap penetrating DT next to Kevin Williams.

19. St. Louis Rams (8-8)
Dan Cody | DE | Oklahoma
The Rams could use upgrades at right tackle (if Kyle Turley isn't back), offensive guard, inside linebacker and free safety, but none of those needs are as pressing as defensive end. The Rams missed Grant Wistrom's presence opposite Leonard Little last year and Cody has the athleticism, speed and pass-rushing instincts to step in as a rookie and immediately make an impact.

20. Dallas Cowboys (6-10)
Carlos Rogers | DC | Auburn
After addressing their need for a pass rusher with the 11th overall pick, the Cowboys should turn their attention to finding a potential shutdown cornerback. They badly underestimated their need at the position last season and it resulted in a major trickle-down effect for the entire defensive unit. Rogers has good size and speed. Most importantly, he is a physical cover corner with the athletic ability and confidence to play in the Cowboys' man-to-man defensive scheme.

21. Jacksonville Jaguars (9-7)
David Pollack | DE | Georgia
The Jaguars are stacked in the middle with Marcus Stroud and John Henderson, but they need help on the perimeter. In fact, an explosive edge rusher may be the one thing keeping this unit from reaching elite status. Pollack might lack ideal size and top-end speed, but he has the quickness, power and playmaking instincts to immediately contribute in the NFL. One thing is for sure; nobody in this class works harder.

22. Baltimore Ravens (9-7)
Mark Clayton | WR | Oklahoma
The Ravens are desperate for a wide receiver who can separate and stretch a defense vertically. They would like for one of the top-three receivers (Edwards, Williams and Williamson) to fall, but that's unlikely. Roddy White is a possibility, but we still think Clayton is the superior talent. His lack of size is concerning but he has very good speed, exceptional hands and is a threat after the catch.

23. Seattle Seahawks (9-7)
Matt Roth | DE | Iowa
Grant Wistrom was an upgrade when healthy, but he's aging and can't be counted on anymore as an every-down player. The Seahawks could use a young pass-rushing presence at the defensive end position, and Roth provides some versatility in that he can play defensive end and even move back to a rush-linebacker role when the team is in its nickel and dime package.

24. Green Bay Packers (10-6)
Channing Crowder* | ILB | Florida
The Packers need to find another pass-rushing presence opposite Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, and they also need an upgrade at linebacker. If they draft an inside linebacker, Nick Barnett can move outside. If they draft an outside linebacker, Barnett can stay home at his MLB position. Crowder, who is a "tweener" OLB/ILB prospect, would be a good fit because the team could try him at both positions and see which one fits best. Crowder is still raw, but he's a good athlete with a mean streak, two qualities the Packers' linebacker corps currently lacks.

25. Denver Broncos (10-6)
Marcus Spears | DE | LSU
This would be a good fit, as Spears is a "tweener" DE/DT who could play both roles for the Broncos. On first and second downs Spears could spend time as a power-end in order to better rest pass-rushing specialist Reggie Howard. On obvious passing down Spears could move inside to upgrade the Broncos' subpar interior pass rush.

26. New York Jets (10-6)
Brandon Browner* | DC | Oregon State
The Jets' most glaring weakness on either side of the ball is at cornerback, and luckily for them this year's draft class is loaded with top candidates at that position. Browner is a bit of an enigma as an unexpected early addition, but his combination of height and speed are intriguing. Browner has great experience in man-to-man coverage and he would be a great value for the Jets at No. 26.

27. Atlanta Falcons (11-5)
Roddy White | WR | Alabama-Birmingham
The Falcons are hot in pursuit of Randy Moss. If that deal falls through, the draft is their next best option in terms of providing Peerless Price legitimate complementary help. White left the Senior Bowl early with a hamstring injury but he proved during the first couple days of practice that he has the speed and playmaking capability to make a difference in the vertical passing game at the next level. If the Falcons do land Moss – or another legitimate starting WR during free agency – DS, DE and OG are the next three positions of need.

28. San Diego Chargers (12-4)
Daryl Blackstock* | OLB | Virginia
If the Chargers go after a vertical playmaker at wide receiver with their first selection, their attention should turn to the other side of the ball with the 28th pick. Drafting a free safety such as Oklahoma's Brodney Pool is a possibility, but Blackstock is a better value and fit. Blackstock was a dominant pass-rushing OLB in Virginia's 3-4 defense and he could serve a similar purpose within the Chargers' identical scheme.

29. Indianapolis Colts (12-4)
Justin Miller* | DC | Clemson
The Colts have a lot of young talent in their secondary, but they are still without a playmaker at the cornerback position. Miller is tough and aggressive, which makes him a good fit in Tony Dungy's scheme. Most importantly, he has great speed, athletic ability and ball skills. Not only could he upgrade the Colts' secondary right away, but he also could provide more explosiveness in the return game.

30. Pittsburgh Steelers (15-1)
Bryant Mcfadden | DC | Florida State
The Steelers could use this selection on an additional pass rusher at the rush-linebacker position, but cornerback is realistically their biggest need. Mcfadden had a terrific week at the Senior Bowl and should have solidified a spot late in the first round. He has good size, speed and athletic ability. More impressive, however, is his toughness, confidence and tackling skills. He has experience in man-to-man coverage and he could immediately provide an upgrade at the nickel cornerback position for a thin Steelers secondary. In our opinion, Mcfadden would be a perfect fit in the Steel City.

31. Philadelphia Eagles (13-3)
Anttaj Hawthorne | DT | Wisconsin
The Eagles could go in several different directions with this pick, including wide receiver, running back or defensive end. However, if Corey Simon bolts via free agency, the defensive tackle position will become one of the team's only glaring needs. Hawthorne's effort was inconsistent at the collegiate level, but when he turns it on he has as much talent and explosiveness as any other player at his position in this year's class. He doesn't have great size or the strength to hold up in a two-gap scheme, but Hawthorne has the initial quickness and upfield explosiveness to fit nicely into coordinator Jim Johnson's one-gap system.

32. New England Patriots (14-2)
Jammal Brown | OT | Oklahoma
The Patriots have other more pressing needs at cornerback and linebacker, but they've never been an organization that reaches for a position of need. They have gotten away with below-average individual talent at several offensive line positions, so drafting a lineman with a good deal of upside with their first pick would make a lot of sense. Brown needs to become more physical, but he has the size and feet to develop into a solid starter in the NFL.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:29 pm 
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This is very interested news. I think the Falcons might show interest in Moss, but I never thought that he would be a guy that Blank would give a greenlight to. But McKay has a history of going after controversial wideouts (Keyshawn) and making it work.

Who would we trade for Moss? The Vikings are asking for 2 #1s and a defensive starter? Which starter do you think the Falcons would part with? Chris Draft? Cory Hall? Draft could be a good fit for Minnesota at WLB since they need some more speed on the outside. Hall probably won't work since he sucks.

Would the Falcons truly part ways with a guy like Kerney, Brooking, or Coleman? I doubt it. But maybe they will send Bryan Scott to Minnesota.

I don't see the Falcons having the personnel to give up to the Vikings. If such a deal happens, then maybe we'll be sending 2 #1s. But as of now, I'm not going to get my hopes up. I really don't see how such a move could work with our already tight cap situation. It would mean that the team is looking to purge a lot of $$$ from the cap via cuts and restructurings, a lot more than I thought.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:46 pm 
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I don't see the Falcons having the personnel to give up to the Vikings.

I totally agree. I can't see the organization giving up their future and ruining their cap for Moss.


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 Post subject: No Moss for falcon's can not see it happening
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:47 pm 
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I have to agree the compensation of giving up to get Moss plus when Moss's contract is up will break the bank I just can't see it happening.The Falcon's if they have any hope of eventually competing with the Eagles(lets face it they are going to be the team to beat for the next 3 or so years)must have indcredible drafts and not sign any more of these ridculous contracts.The Eagle's have alot of picks plus are well under the cap and it will take Mckay to do his homework to bring in the right players.

The defense needs a few more impact players and the offense needs upgrading.We know championships are won through defense yet the offense must upgrade.Getting Moss who did nothing in the playoffs would only hinder the efforts to get a number of impact players. Football is not a sport that can be one by a few players you have to have quailty on offense and defense plus special teams.Let the Raiders or Ravens get Moss.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:01 pm 
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I disagree somewhat. I'm in the camp of people that think Moss's presence on this team and roster is only going to help the team. Sure, he can be a bit of a distraction and can cause a bit of trouble off the field, but I think that's a minor issue when compared to his on-field ability.

Moss is arguably the most dominating receiver to ever play the game, and I think a change of scenery will be good for him, in terms of cleaning up his act. Will I ever expect him to become a model citizen? No, but I think the distractions he caused in Minnesota wouldn't be much of an issue in Atlanta. They are two different teams with two different coaching staffs and personnel.

I think Moss on this team would give us a legitimate scoring threat through the air. It would make Price's play improved at least five times, and he'd be just as productive in Atlanta as he was in Buffalo. Moss would instantly bring a guy capable of catching double digit TDs in the air, something this team has only had once since the Run N' Shoot days (Mathis had 11 in '98). Of course that means that Vick's development improves, because he is now working with a receiver he can have total confidence in, much like Moss had from Cunningham, George, and Culpepper in MInnesota. And of course it totally boosts the running game because we now have a deep threat, which creates a very difficult dynamic for D coordinators. Do they bring the extra man in the box to help stifle DVD and risk isolating his corners on Moss? Or does he hold his safeties back, but at the same time risking the front 7 at trying to stop DVD.

But I agree that this move is unlikely. I don't see our cap situation being able to maneuver itself in order to get Moss. Unless this team does some serious renegotiating of player salaries, then there's really no way I see us able to fit Moss under our cap. Of course, Moss can be given a new contract as well (I believe he is currently signed thru 2008).

And although getting a guy like Moss prevents us from making signficant moves in the FA market and also will probably cost us 2 #1 picks, I don't think that's necessarily a huge loss.

Although I usually don't resort to the "crapshoot" theory of the NFL draft (although I agree it is), I think you can be a bit more sure that Moss will be very productive in Atlanta, while our 2 #1s may not be. Basically saying that Moss is more of a proven commodity than any first rounders, because he's a future HOFer. Of course, the Falcons 2005 season could fall apart (an injury to Vick), and we may in essence be trading away a Top 10 pick in 2006, but maybe it's a risk worth taking.

I'm very curious to see if McKay and Ray Anderson can make a potential move work. I would applaud the Falcons for going after Moss. It shows our front office is going to be aggressive when it comes to winning football games and I can't be unhappy with that. I think if Vick and Moss are on the same team, it immediately puts us in the same group as the Patriots and Eagles as the elite teams in the NFL.

But I don't think the Falcons should quite yet be of the mindset, "We have to build a team capable of beating the Eagles." We still haven't built a team that can consistently beat the Panthers, Bucs, and/or Saints. We need to dominate our division first before we start putting ourselves in the Eagles group.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:27 am 
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I only "know" two things......we will never get Moss......and we won't pick a WR in the first round...that's not going to happen after the past two drafts when we went with WR's at #1 (jenkins and price)..we need defensive help and thats where it it will be...

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:39 pm 
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i am not so sure of where i stand on this
moss not only wil have a big salary to deal with but who will he be

the Randy from Notre Dame the Randy from Florida State
the one from Marshall or the one that has been in Minn

o wait they are all the same person
trouble that goes with him from team to team and town to town

he would be the big threat me need very bad
good player big plays
quick great hands

but i do not see atl not only takin the risk but also givin up the players picks and money the want for him


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:02 am 
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There has been a lot of comparisons between Randy and T.O. And it's true, T.O. is the better player because he definitely has a greater drive to succeed than Randy. But that's not to say Randy cares nothing about winning.

I'm not sure I'm on the same page with people that say a move like acquiring Randy is risky. I don't think it is. I still think he's a few offenses away from being a 4-game suspension, so I think still has a few strikes to go in that regard.

And what's so risky about getting a guy that you can be pretty damn sure is going to catch 70-90 passes a year and 8-12 TDs?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:20 am 
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Pudge wrote:
And what's so risky about getting a guy that you can be pretty damn sure is going to catch 70-90 passes a year and 8-12 TDs?

That he doesn't make the same plays in the postseason that he does in the season. Does anyone remember the awesome display of alligator arms by Randy in the Divisional Playoffs against Philly?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:07 pm 
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Very true, LO, but there are a lot of great players out there that just aren't the same in the playoffs.

It takes a very special player to be able to get it done in the playoffs. But what makes you think that this team already has good "playoff players" so that adding Randy is going to disrupt that.

Sure, we are 2-2 in the playoffs in recent years. In both wins we outclassed teams, but in both losses we were definitely outclassed.

LO you could make the argument on how Philly has controlled Vick very well. Would you then call him a coward? A bad player?

If you're judging solely on what the Eagles or Patriots do against top players, then I don't think you're judging the right way. Those are two great teams that know how to get it done against other good teams and good players.

I'm not going to say that I think Randy is going to be a postseason phenom in Atlanta, because I would suspect some of the same headaches here that we saw in Minnesota. But that just seems like a very convenient excuse.

If you're going to make that point, then maybe we should only sign players that have played for the Patriots...

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Pudge wrote:
If you're judging solely on what the Eagles or Patriots do against top players, then I don't think you're judging the right way. Those are two great teams that know how to get it done against other good teams and good players.

If you're going to make that point, then maybe we should only sign players that have played for the Patriots...

Talk about taking a comment and running with it. It's not like I said Moss only demonstrated it against Philly this postseason. He's been doing it his whole career. He's even stated something to the effect that he only plays when he wants to. The Philly game was the most recent display of how he doesn't always give it his all.

Is this really the kind of player we need to send a starter and two draft picks for, minimum?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:19 pm 
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No, I agree, Moss has disappeared in the playoffs throughout his career, but then again, haven't almost all the Minnesota Vikings players over the past 5 or so years? Couldn't this also mean that it's partly coaching too?

But I would counter with the point that Moss's 70 or 80% is still better than 110 or 120% of any of the guys we currently have on the roster.

I would say that Moss is one of the few playmakers we could add on offense in this league that could quickly jumpstart our passing game and bring consistency to that unit.

If we had on Moss on this team, I would be extremely surprised if the Falcons were not in at least one Super Bowl in the next 3 seasons.

Those statements Moss made about playing when he wants to were made nearly 3 or 4 years ago. I'm not saying Moss is a completely changed man, but I think if put in the right situation and on the right team, he could have a semi-rebirth in terms of his commitment.

I think his career in Minnesota is only going to be downhill from this point on. But I think if he came to Atlanta, he may not turn into the consumate gentleman and be the perfect citizen, but he'd be much more well behaved and committed than he was in Minneapolis, because I think we have the coaching staff, player personnel, and front office that will inspire him somewhat more than Green, Tice, McCombs, and whomever did in Minnesota.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:49 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
Those statements Moss made about playing when he wants to were made nearly 3 or 4 years ago. I'm not saying Moss is a completely changed man, but I think if put in the right situation and on the right team, he could have a semi-rebirth in terms of his commitment.

We may be in disagreement here, but I certainly don't feel it's worth the risk of sending, at a minimum, a starter and two first day picks for someone who "might" have a change.

If we are indeed talking to Minnesota about Moss, I'd rather the FO talk to Pittsburgh or St. Louis, at least once, to see if the same offer would net Ward or Holt. Both of these guys are top tier WRs in this league and bring their A game every week. Or, for that matter, any number of players at other positions who can bring a great deal of talent to this team, and do so each and every game of the season. Not bring a great deal of talent this week, and then a ton of potential the next.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:52 pm 
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LO, good points, but the fact of the matter is that Hines Ward, Torry Holt, Marvin Harrison, or any of the other top wideouts in the league ARE NOT on the trading block, and probably never will be.

So we have to deal with the cards we are dealt. Right now, a team could probably negotiate to trade for Moss, Koren Robinson, Derrick Mason, Rod Gardner, David Terrell, and a few other names we've discussed before.

Although two first round picks and a starter may be enticing to both teams, I really don't think either will trade Ward or Holt. Ward, just maybe, because he is entering the final year of his contract, so trading him won't hurt the Steelers cap situation. But that would mean they would have to re-sign Plaxico Burress, something they would like to do, but don't want to be forced to do. And it would also mean that they would probably have to spend one of those acquired picks on a WR, something they'd prefer not to do. And the Rams are in a similar situation because they don't have anybody that is going to fill the void.

So if you break it down, from the Steelers and/or Rams perspectives, trading their star WRs would probably hurt them more than help them.

I definitely understand your skepticism of Moss, but I think my main points are: 1) Minnesota Randy doesn't automatically mean the same as Atlanta Randy. Therefore, his behavior there can change here. 2) The team is going to have to take risks if they want to build a winner. The Bucs couldn't get over the hump until they took a risk and fired Tony Dungy. He's a good coach, but wasn't the guy that was going to get them over the hump and into the Super Bowl. McKay spearheaded this move, probably a bit reluctantly but probably felt that it was a move that was necessary if the team wanted to win a Super Bowl. The same can be said about our offense. We desperatley need another playmaker to jumpstart this unit. We can't just sit back and wait the several years before Michael Vick is a complete QB. That's several years off, and our defense is still probably several years away from being good enough to match that of the top teams in the league (i.e. capable of carrying an inconsistent offense to a Super Bowl). So unless McKay wants to sit around for 3 or 5 years and just hope everything falls into place, then he needs to make a move. And unless the Falcons are planning on trading up for Mike Williams, then we should definitely look at Moss as an option. 3) Although Moss's addition may not get us a Super Bowl, I think it's pro bably going to get us a lot closer than that of Mike Jenkins/Price could ever do. Or Reggie Brown, Fred Gibson, or probably any other 2nd/3rd tier receiver we could get. I think he's a surer thing than any of them.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:14 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
LO, good points, but the fact of the matter is that Hines Ward, Torry Holt, Marvin Harrison, or any of the other top wideouts in the league ARE NOT on the trading block, and probably never will be.

Neither's Randy, but it doesn't stop speculation about trading him....

Quote:
So we have to deal with the cards we are dealt. Right now, a team could probably negotiate to trade for Moss, Koren Robinson, Derrick Mason, Rod Gardner, David Terrell, and a few other names we've discussed before.

Mason could be a cap casualty, so he'd be A LOT cheaper than Moss, assuming we had to trade for him at all. Rod Gardner isn't a number one. We've already got a number two posing as a number one with Price. Koren Robinson dropped 10 passes of 67 thrown his way. Why would we want him? Just say no to Terrell, as he's worse than Pez. Aside from Mason and Porter (just say no to Plexiglass), and possibly Muhammed, Moss is the only option available, and that's where the majority of this speculation is stemming from. That and everyone believes Minnesota is tired of him.

Quote:
Although two first round picks and a starter may be enticing to both teams, I really don't think either will trade Ward or Holt.

And it would also mean that they would probably have to spend one of those acquired picks on a WR, something they'd prefer not to do. And the Rams are in a similar situation because they don't have anybody that is going to fill the void

If we made an offer for either Ward or Holt that was the same as what Minnesota is supposedly asking for, their GMs would be quite dumb, for lack of a more fitting word, to turn down a trade that would net them 3 potential starters in place of 1.

Quote:
So if you break it down, from the Steelers and/or Rams perspectives, trading their star WRs would probably hurt them more than help them.

For the most part, I disagree. As I eluded to, 3 starters are greater than 1. I would hurt Pitt, to a degree, in that Ward is a leader. Considering Bruce may be a cap cut, trading Holt would put a dent in the veteran depth at WR there. But no more so than the Vikings. It's not like they have another top tier WR on the team waiting in the wings. They do have a few who compliment Moss well, but how would they do without him? Probably about as well as Price as done without Moulds, which is another reason I highly doubt Minnesota trades Moss to anyone.

Quote:
1) Minnesota Randy doesn't automatically mean the same as Atlanta Randy. Therefore, his behavior there can change here. 2) The team is going to have to take risks if they want to build a winner. The Bucs couldn't get over the hump until they took a risk and fired Tony Dungy. He's a good coach, but wasn't the guy that was going to get them over the hump and into the Super Bowl. McKay spearheaded this move, probably a bit reluctantly but probably felt that it was a move that was necessary if the team wanted to win a Super Bowl. The same can be said about our offense. We desperatley need another playmaker to jumpstart this unit. We can't just sit back and wait the several years before Michael Vick is a complete QB. That's several years off, and our defense is still probably several years away from being good enough to match that of the top teams in the league (i.e. capable of carrying an inconsistent offense to a Super Bowl). So unless McKay wants to sit around for 3 or 5 years and just hope everything falls into place, then he needs to make a move. And unless the Falcons are planning on trading up for Mike Williams, then we should definitely look at Moss as an option. 3) Although Moss's addition may not get us a Super Bowl, I think it's pro bably going to get us a lot closer than that of Mike Jenkins/Price could ever do. Or Reggie Brown, Fred Gibson, or probably any other 2nd/3rd tier receiver we could get. I think he's a surer thing than any of them.

1) You might be able to take Randy out of Minnesota, but you cannot take Randy out of himself. Many people believe he'll get better in a "winning" situation. Randy was no different his rookie year when they went 15-1, nor was he any different when they went 11-5. Both years they made the NFCC game, and every year he's the same guy. Randy has admitted he is not changing. He has accepted this, and no offense to anyone, but it's now time for others to as well.
2) Tampa was a Super Bowl team already. They needed one component to prove it; the head coach. Dungy isnt a coach who can get his team through the playoffs and to a Super Bowl, much like other coaches in the game today. Cowher, Schottenheimer, Edwards, to name a few, all become ultra-conservative in the playoffs and it hinders their team's efforts. They aren't the same team in the postseason that they are in the season. They brought Gruden in, he got the offense on track, but only for that season. They've been on the decline offensively since then. Would you say it was worth mortgaging the future for the sake of the present? A Super Bowl ring is nice, but if you play your cards right you can be in contention for one every season. You have teams that build efficiently, using the draft as a key component. Then there are teams who don't, like Washington and Miami. And where has that put them? Near the bottom of the league. I am willing to wait 2, 3, 5, 8 years for this team to put together a program that can compete year in and year out. However I am not for a team that can compete for the next couple years and then we have to rebuild yet again.
3) Bringing in Moss, or even anyone for that matter, is no sure thing. There are FA/trade busts just as much as their are draft busts. What happens if we send 3 potential starters for him and then he gets hurt? We've essentially lost 4 good players. Nobody, especially a WR, is worth that risk. Not Moss, not Ward, not even a 25 year old Jerry Rice. This is the NFL. There is no sure thing. We either take a risk on one 28 year old who, for seven seasons, has shown he can be just as much a liability to his team as an asset, or we take a risk on one starter playing well, and two draft picks, who will be 23 at the oldest in most instances, two play well also. I don't know about you, but I like my chances with the latter.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:29 am 
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LO, I don't want it to sound like I think we have to get Moss or all else fails. But I'm just thinking that in order to jumpstart this offense, we need a top playmaker sooner rather than later.

And I'm also assuming that over the next few years, we will probably have at least a 7-9 record at worst, which likely means we won't be in the position to get a top playmaker at WR in the draft because it will mean we'll probably be picking in the bottom 15 of the first round.

I too can be patient and hope that McKay builds a consistent team down the line, but I don't think acquiring Moss hurts that much down the road.

I think it will only help McKay/Mora if they build an offense around Moss, Vick, and Crumpler. I think McKay is ready to clean house anyway on that side of the ball, and anybody that he hasn't given a long-term deal to (i.e. players not named Vick, Crumpler, Forney, or Jenkins) are going to be gone in the next few years.

Yes, getting Moss does hurt us somewhat from acquiring more playmakers on both sides of the ball in the near future (losing 2 1st rounders).

You talked about conservatism in coaching, but I think you can't be it either in personnel decisions either. That doesn't mean you become the Washington Redskins, but when a once in a lifetime chance comes along, you have to try and take it. This seems pretty close to that chance. And once in a lifetime, in football means once every five or so years, because that can be a lifetime (a.k.a. career) in this day and age.

I don't think the Falcons will trade for Moss. And with the impending approval of Reggie Fowler as the Vikings new owner, I don't think the Vikings will trade Moss. But I do think that if the Falcons had the cap room to acquire Moss, it would be a good move. And for that very reason, I do think McKay should at least spend a few hours in a dark room crunching numbers to see if it's possible. If they leave the room saying that it will be extremely difficult to free up that kind of cap space, then so be it. A trade wasn't in the cards. But if they can find a way to do it, then it should be done.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:01 pm 
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My suspicisions seem to have been confirmed. Only word from the big man himself would end speculation.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/503/5251651.html

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