PFT takes more shots at Vick

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Pudge
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Postby Pudge » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:30 pm

I'm not sure if it's the case this year, but after watching Peyton Manning a bit over the past 2 years, he's not as accurate a QB as he's made out to be.

In terms of hitting receivers on the money and putting the ball where only his guys can catch it, he's not that great. Or at least not as much as he's made out to be. This was semi-proved when Drew Brees smoked him in that QB accuracy competition.

But there is truth, that he is helped by the quality of his receivers. I think with Manning, he and receivers are truly on the same page, and he doesn't have to throw a perfect strike for his guys to catch it. He knows that his guys are going to come down with the ball nearly every time, and they know that he's going to put the ball in a place where they can catch, even if it takes a bit of extra effort on their part.
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Postby AngryJohnny51 » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:35 pm

Pudge wrote:I'm not sure if it's the case this year, but after watching Peyton Manning a bit over the past 2 years, he's not as accurate a QB as he's made out to be.

In terms of hitting receivers on the money and putting the ball where only his guys can catch it, he's not that great. Or at least not as much as he's made out to be. This was semi-proved when Drew Brees smoked him in that QB accuracy competition.

But there is truth, that he is helped by the quality of his receivers. I think with Manning, he and receivers are truly on the same page, and he doesn't have to throw a perfect strike for his guys to catch it. He knows that his guys are going to come down with the ball nearly every time, and they know that he's going to put the ball in a place where they can catch, even if it takes a bit of extra effort on their part.


Comparing Vick to Manning is like comparing apples to oranges. Manning's offense is very dictated. He throws to spots. It's up to his receivers to run the good routes and be at that spot at a certain time. Vick's passing is more back yard draw it in the dirt type. Scrammble around and throw it. Tough for him, tough for the blockers and tough for the receivers as well.

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Bust

Postby MarylandFalcon1 » Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:24 pm

I can only assume that this whole 'bust' thing is linked to passing and not winning a Super Bowl because it can't be about winning. If this is the case then here are just a small list of 'busts'.

Chris Chandler/Steve Bartkowski (and neither one could even win in back to back seasons with the falcons)

Jim Kelly
Warren Moon
Randel Cunningham
Peyton Manning
Dan Marino
Fran Tarkenton
Dan Fouts

These guys could pass but not win Super Bowls... does that make them Busts? However, they could win games AND pass so does that take them off the table as Busts?

Does winning a Super Bowl NOT make you a Bust? Try these names on for size.

Doug Johnson
Brad Johnson
Trent Dilfer
Jeff Hostetler
Mark Rypien

I won't see these guys in Canton anytime soon.

For all the crap I have to hear about Vick and passing I have to wonder who is really on this page. I mean do you guys have no memory? WE HAVE NEVER HAD A WINNING RECORD IN BACK TO BACK SEASONS! We are one of the 3 WORST franchises in NFL History. For the love of all that is holy even Tampa freaken Bay has won a Super Bowl. Have you all forgotten what it is like to be in Week 6 and know your season is over? How about Week 4! If you love this game, if you love the Falcons how could you ever utter the words 'then I will have to write Vick off' or 'then he is done in my book'. Are you for real? Maybe we should trade up with the Browns or the Saints. I bet they would slap you silly for bad mouthing Mike Vick. Just keep looking this gift horse in the mouth and maybe you will all get your wish and we can go back to having a 'pocket passer'; then we can spend time with family on October Sundays because you just can't stomach watching the Birds lose for the 5th straight week.

If Vick and take us to the playoffs for 5 or 6 years then I will take it! If I have something to look forward to in Jan then I will love every second of it. And you know what, if you aren't in the playoffs you can't win a Super Bowl. There is always a chance, always a string of wins, always an underdog. Keep your backups and 'great' passers, I will take Vick anyday and twice on Sunday.

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Postby The_Incomparable » Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:44 pm

Thank God someone with some sense finally showed up. I was beginning to think this place had turned into the Atlanta Falcons Message Boards.

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Postby dirtybirdnw » Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:14 pm

The_Incomparable wrote:Thank God someone with some sense finally showed up. I was beginning to think this place had turned into the Atlanta Falcons Message Boards.


Not anywhere near the AFMB! Not all Falcon fans swing from Vick's nut sack. Some of us will call out anyone for poor play.
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Postby The_Incomparable » Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:43 pm

I really don't appreciate you saying things like that dirty. It's easy to jump on someone's case when they are putting up bad numbers, but the fact remains that Vick has proven time & again that he can do it. The only thing I'm swinging from is past performances, especially when it matters. The fact that you are complaining about Vick's numbers when we're in the midst of erasing 40 years of utter futility makes me wonder how long you've been around Atlanta football. When he only puts up 2000 yards passing and we go 7-9 then you can say swinging, but until then just do us all a favor and shut the f*** up with your lame comments.

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Postby dirtybirdnw » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:01 pm

The_Incomparable wrote:I really don't appreciate you saying things like that dirty. It's easy to jump on someone's case when they are putting up bad numbers, but the fact remains that Vick has proven time & again that he can do it.


I have never been a Vick fan and have always questioned him and how far the Falcons will go with him. I'm not jumping on him just because of this instance. I've been calling out Vick's performances since he was a rookie.
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Postby AngryJohnny51 » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:01 pm

'Comp wrote:I really don't appreciate you saying things like that dirty. It's easy to jump on someone's case when they are putting up bad numbers, but the fact remains that Vick has proven time & again that he can do it.


He's proven time and time again that he can do what? If you're talking about winning, and that is the only stat that matters, than you are correct. If you are talking about he's proven he can pass the ball effectively, you are wrong. Denver, last year he had a good game passing. Lately, I'm not sure.

'Comp wrote:The fact that you are complaining about Vick's numbers when we're in the midst of erasing 40 years of utter futility makes me wonder how long you've been around Atlanta football.


Bottom line, Vick wins. Everyone is happy about that. The concern is once Vick loses his "edge" he has over defenses now (Speed, agility), can he still win?

'Comp wrote:When he only puts up 2000 yards passing and we go 7-9 then you can say swinging, but until then just do us all a favor and shut the f*** up with your lame comments.



Umm, not called for dude. He has a difference of opinion with you and didn't make it personal as far as I know. No need for that stuff here, save it for the ESPN boards.

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Postby dirtybirdnw » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:08 pm

I've also stated multiple times that I'm fine with Vick as long as we keep winning games. But one day his lacking of passing ability is going to bite him and the team in the ass. It already has done so in two playoff games against the Iggles.

The_Incomparable wrote:When he only puts up 2000 yards passing and we go 7-9 then you can say swinging, but until then just do us all a favor and shut the f*** up with your lame comments.


So much anger he has. Train him as a Jedi we do not recommend.

But really dude if you want to start cursing at me for my opinion that's fine. I've been arguing the very real case of the lack of passing game largely because of Vick's inconsistency. I know most Falcon fans don't like me because of it. I've accepted that.

But when it is all said and done Vick is our quarterback and the core of this team. For that I will support him and hope he does eventually emerge as a consistent passer and a threat. I own a Vick jersey and wear it (largely due to the fact that it would cost me twice as much to get any other jersey from AF.com or any other retailer since they only sell Vick jersey's here in Vancouver) and I take the knocks from opposing fans and Vick haters.
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Postby The_Incomparable » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:50 pm

I'm cursing you because of your nuthugger comment you directed towards me.

Angry, he had good games THIS year against the Bills, Vikings (before he got hurt), and Eagles (who do not get passes on, so his performance was actually quit good). Two of those teams were in the top 3 in defense last year. Again, only time will tell but I will hold off on the criticisms until we go 7-9 and Vick throws terribly, because I know Dunn isn't converting any 3rd & 9 or 4th & Goals anytime soon.

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Postby Steve-O » Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:51 pm

so much anger....

Vick isn't playing well and deserves a lot of the criticism he's getting...he plays like he did against the Saints and Jets against a good team and we don't win those games...I am as big of a Vick nuthugger as they come, but he's gonna have to step it up if we want to go anywhere in the post season...I personally won't be happy with a playoff appearance...I don't care if we've never had back to back winning seasons, accomplishing that feat isn't enough to make me happy... I want rings dammit!!!

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Postby dirtybirdnw » Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:59 pm

The_Incomparable wrote:I'm cursing you because of your nuthugger comment you directed towards me.


Correction... That was directed towards all Vick nut huggers. My nut hugger comment was in reference to your comment about people not being sane because we are speaking out on Vick's numbers.
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Postby AngryJohnny51 » Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:06 pm

The_Incomparable wrote:I'm cursing you because of your nuthugger comment you directed towards me.

Angry, he had good games THIS year against the Bills, Vikings (before he got hurt), and Eagles (who do not get passes on, so his performance was actually quit good). Two of those teams were in the top 3 in defense last year. Again, only time will tell but I will hold off on the criticisms until we go 7-9 and Vick throws terribly, because I know Dunn isn't converting any 3rd & 9 or 4th & Goals anytime soon.


I like Vick as our QB. There are only one or two in the league I would take over him. I guess I just expected more from him this year. Hey, I'm the guy who predicted he would throw for 3200-3500 yards this year!

I'm also thinking ahead. Back to back winning seasons is just a start as far as I'm concerned. I want this team to contend year in and year out. I fear if Vick, who just signed a 10 year contract, doesn't take steps improving touch and accuarcy, his contract will doom us financially for years to come.

Like I said, I guess I expected more from Vick this year. He's a year older, more experienced in the system and has better talent outside. So why can't he hit the open man? :cry:

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Postby mickvick302 » Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:32 pm

Why such vulgar amidst us all?

We should all just be friends!

For real though, this is gay, Dirty never said that you personally liked to hug Vick's nuts, he just said that somepeople do...it's usually the people who call themselves "True" Falc Fans, but you just wait, in a couple years, if Vick isn't doing that good, they will be long gone, looking for a team to cheer on
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Postby dirtybirdnw » Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:51 pm

Pudge, cap, or scout; if you can lock a thread now would be the time to lock this one. It's begun its tail spin into a pointless mud slinging thread. I think we have all taken this arguement as far as it can go.
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Postby FalconsAreTheBest » Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:00 pm

All you guys are idiots, but thats JMO.

If you praise Vick you're a "nuthugger", if you bash Vick you're a "hater".

It makes me laugh really because we all want the same thing in the end which is a "W" and there are only a couple QBs in the NFL who do that better than Vick, so all this arguing is moot.

I will agree that there are about 10,000 messages about how Vick is this or that, needs to do this or that, blah, blah, blah........but where are the posts about how overrated DeLo is? Or the fact the Kerney absolutely disappears from games....or how any decent QB has a field day vs. our secondary, or our terrible OL, or the fact that our punter is better at FGs then our kicker, or Jenkins has butterfingers, or we waited too long to start Finny, or the other things that we must work on.

If someone from another team lurked in on us they would think that our opinion of what we need to work on is Vick. This place is really starting to remind me of the ESPN board. All I read are negative posts about how bad our passing game/Vick sucks. People are already making their opinions on why we wont make/loose the Super Bowl. ARE YOU FREAKIN SERIOUS? You guys are aware that its only week 8 right? And we are 5-2 right?

We should be focusing on the fact that we are in position to have back-to-back winning seasons for the first time in franchise history!!!

Super Bowl? That isint even for months from now. I wish some of you guys on here would take our teams stance of "one game at a time".

If all you guys like to do is criticize this team and nothing but criticize this team.......then may I suggest a new team? If I want to talk about how bad the Falcons and Vick suck and why we wont win the SB when the playoffs arent for another 3 f**** months I'll talk about the Falcons with my Eagle friends and hear it from them.

5-2, remember that.
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Postby The_Incomparable » Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:25 pm

vickisthebest wrote:All you guys are idiots, but thats JMO.

If you praise Vick you're a "nuthugger", if you bash Vick you're a "hater".

It makes me laugh really because we all want the same thing in the end which is a "W" and there are only a couple QBs in the NFL who do that better than Vick, so all this arguing is moot.

I will agree that there are about 10,000 messages about how Vick is this or that, needs to do this or that, blah, blah, blah........but where are the posts about how overrated DeLo is? Or the fact the Kerney absolutely disappears from games....or how any decent QB has a field day vs. our secondary, or our terrible OL, or the fact that our punter is better at FGs then our kicker, or Jenkins has butterfingers, or we waited too long to start Finny, or the other things that we must work on.

If someone from another team lurked in on us they would think that our opinion of what we need to work on is Vick. This place is really starting to remind me of the ESPN board. All I read are negative posts about how bad our passing game/Vick sucks. People are already making their opinions on why we wont make/loose the Super Bowl. ARE YOU FREAKIN SERIOUS? You guys are aware that its only week 8 right? And we are 5-2 right?

We should be focusing on the fact that we are in position to have back-to-back winning seasons for the first time in franchise history!!!

Super Bowl? That isint even for months from now. I wish some of you guys on here would take our teams stance of "one game at a time".

If all you guys like to do is criticize this team and nothing but criticize this team.......then may I suggest a new team? If I want to talk about how bad the Falcons and Vick suck and why we wont win the SB when the playoffs arent for another 3 f**** months I'll talk about the Falcons with my Eagle friends and hear it from them.

5-2, remember that.


A-FUCKING-MEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/end thread

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Postby Pudge » Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:29 am

Michael Vick is the "abortion" topic of Falcon fans. People take hard lines on it.

Vick is my favorite player, but I am critical of him. I have confidence that Vick is going to rebound and start playing like he did before the Patriots game, but that doesn't mean people aren't allowed to be critical of the present.

And as for us talking about Super BOwl predictions, it comes from the fact that we have a bye this week. WIthout a game to look for and discuss on Sunday, it tends to make many of us (including myself) look at the rest of the season.

But I'll lock the thread, if it makes people feel better. But it's not like locking the thread is going to do anything. If Vick comes out vs. Miami and has a great game, the people on one side are going to call out the people on the other side, and vice versa if Vick has another bad game.

I feel like I'm supposed to break up this fight, but I really have no desire to do so...
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