Just had an epiphany...

Discuss your favorite team: the Atlanta Falcons. As well as all NFL and pro football-related topics, including fantasy football.

Moderators: Capologist, dirtybirdnw, thescout

User avatar
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
Posts: 26397
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:03 pm
Location: North Carolina

Just had an epiphany...

Postby Pudge » Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:03 pm

...as I woke up this morning. And I asked myself, what could help us at wide receiver? And I answered to myself, a trade.

But who to trade for? Some fans are saying that this roster needs to add vertical threats. I disagree. We have Price and White for at least another year. Speed is not a problem for this unit. It's just getting open. But also I think an issue is that we need YAC guys to be a bit more in-tune with the "classic" WCO.

And then it dawned on me, are there "tradeable" receivers out there that are any good? But then I realized that's slightly oxymoronic, since almost all receivers that are traded are either A) disappointments or B) lost in the shuffle.

That got me thinking, what receivers will likely be on the trading block this off-season. The names that came to mind were:

Josh Reed, Bills
Peter Warrick, Bengals
David Terrell, Bears
Freddie Mitchell, Eagles
Rod Gardner, Redskins
Koren Robinson, Seahawks
Derrick Mason, Titans

Now a few of those names might surprise you, but I think all are definitely tradeable from their respective teams, depending on what's offered. The beauty of it all, is that all these players are entering the final years of their contracts, which means that if the Falcons did acquire them they are not inheriting a long-term commitment. But the question, which among these players is the right fit?

Mason seems tough to trade for due to the approx. $6 million cap hit he will carry in 2005. Plus the Titans would probably want at least a 2nd rounder for the 31-year old vet that caugh 96 passes this year. They probably would normally want a 1st, but it'd be doubtful any team would give up that much for a guy that's near the end of his career.

Robinson, Gardner, Reed, Warrick, and Terrell are all playing under the rookie contracts, which makes them all very tradeable. What would their teams want for them? Well Robinson is obviously a first rounder, just because of his youth and athleticism. The knock on him is that he can't catch, and the knock is true. Gardner is not a big play threat, just a steady possession guy that really only makes his mark felt in the red zone. Reed is a smaller YAC guy that really hasn't done much in the pros after an outstanding college career. Warrick has had 1 good year in the NFL, but otherwise is a decent/average No. 2 threat. Terrell played fairly well this year when he was the #1 threat in Chicago, but he's really an overglorified #3 guy with attitude and work ethic issues.

So you might be saying to yourself. Well this is a great crop of guys to pick from. Most of them are underachievers or over the hill. Well, I'm sorry to tell you, but a guy like Roy Williams is unlikely to drop magically from the sky and solve our WR issues forever. We just aren't likely to be in a position to get a top wideout in the upcoming drafts, assuming we will be picking in the bottom part of the 1st round in upcoming years. Reggie Wayne (#30, '01), Moss (#21, '98), Moulds (#24, '96) and Javon Walker (#20, '02) are the only real wideouts picked after #20 in the first round that have had successful NFL careers in recent years. You get more Rae Carruths and Marcus Nashs than those guys. Now of course, this all changes if the Falcons revert to their former selves and have a 5-11 season at some point.

But anyway, back to the point. Who among those guys is a possible target. Depending on what we give up, I wouldn't mind having any of those guys. I don't really see it as something that we need to bring in a single player that is going to change our fortunes forever, but I do think we need to continue to accumulate talent, and at the very least get us a #2 that is really a quality starter. White/Finneran are backups that are basically starting on a bad unit. Mason, Robinson, and Warrick definitely fulfill that role IMO. Terrell, Reed, and Gardner have the potential, but they don't offer the consistency/big play potential of the other 3. Mason would be the ideal choice, because he's the most dependable, but that huge salary is going to be tough for both the Titans & Falcons to handle if he is traded. Robinson has the most potential, but he's shown little improvement over the years in consistency. He drops so many passes, it's uncanny. Warrick is coming off an injury and is a decent #2 if he has a capable #1 across from him.

I really think it's a situation where some of these guys will step up their game with a change in scenery. Well, you might be saying, it's too risky trading a 1st/2nd/3rd round pick for unproven or inconsistent players. And I say, you have to take risks in this business if you want to pay dividends. We all knew it was risky to sign Price to a huge deal and ship a #1 to Buffalo for him. But I think it was worth the risk. This team needed a playmaker, and Price and Coles were really the only ones available. Did the team ultimately make a mistake in taking Price over Coles? Yes, I think so. But I don't fault Reeves & Co. for at least trying. And McKay needs to do the same thing.

But I think McKay should look at some of these names, and actually put the feelers out there to see what type of interest their teams have. I don't want to give up a 1st round pick for any of these guys, but if it requires dumping this year's 2nd & 5th, and a future 2nd for Koren Robinson, I think it's a risk worth taking. We need to jumpstart our passing game, and a set of fresh legs is just what we need.
"Vincere scis, Hannibal, victoria uti nescis" -- Maharbal, 216 B.C.E.

User avatar
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 10:31 am
Location: Dallas, Ga

Postby natequinn23 » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:55 pm

i love that idea and it makes sense
it is a good list but no jump at me more than others

i really like Warrick but that is because i am a FSU guy
he has not been even close to what i thought he would be

Reed might help Price and i think his upside is still very big

Terrell fair but getting up in age still worth a chance

Gardner and Robisnson to me are the same guy
but how will there off field fit in with this team

Mitchell might be the one guy on this list that we could get but also the one that might have the less upside of them all

i think one of these guys could be the answer not long term
but a year could make all the differnce and i feel that McKay will make smart choices he has in the past

no matter what the playoffs bring the offseason will be fun

the scout

None of the receivers listed are no1 receivers

Postby the scout » Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:53 pm

I have acumulated some stats on the players pudge listed and have come to the conclusion that none of the players are no1 receivers.I did not include Mason or Mitchell since I feel trading with phily strengthens them and never liked mitchell in the pros,also we need a young receiver and one without a huge contract.The stats I have come up with will probably get messed up on the board due to something weird happens to them when posting on these forums.

catches yds avg lg
Josh Reed 2004 16 153 9.6 20
2003 58 588 10.1 26
Pete Warrick 2004 11 127 11.5 30
2003 79 819 10.4 77
David Terrell 2004 42 699 16.6 63
2003 43 361 8.4 35

Rod Gardner 2004 51 650 12.7 51
2003 59 600 10.2 35
Koren Robinson 2004 31 495 16 33
2003 65 896 13.8 38

Two players stand out to me in these stats Terrell and robinson.While the stats are good on yds per catch neither I feel have the work ethic to be a no1 receiver.I live in Indiana and catch alot of the chicago radio station and they are constantly reaming Terrell for not being disciplined and off the field probelms.I don't want Terrell and Robinson seems like a guy who can put numbers up but still is undisciplined in his route running.In the offense we play route running is important.Garner drops to many balls and is not consistent on his route running,I would not mind Warrick or Reed.Warrick is more dangerous after the catch but I think may cost more to get him.

Once again I don't think any of the above players are no1 receivers and we already have Peerless as the no2 ,plus his salary would hurt the falcon's on getting rid of him this year (cap).It might be best to stay pat unless you want another no2 guy reason already given plus given up draft choices.We have 2 many holes to fill one beig a no1 recevier.

There is a chance Mark Clayton from oklahmoa drops to the falcon's and while small he has the variable to be elite recevier I think.Funny,all the guys pudge mentioned were highly thought of coming out of college but now are trying to find themselves.I know maturity plays a big part and Warrick may be the guy who has the speed to develop.Terrell no way I want plus robinson gets by on natural talent and will never be a workaholic.

User avatar
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
Posts: 26397
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:03 pm
Location: North Carolina

Postby Pudge » Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:22 pm

thescout wrote:Once again I don't think any of the above players are no1 receivers and we already have Peerless as the no2 ,plus his salary would hurt the falcon's on getting rid of him this year (cap).

I can agree with that. But I don't necessarily believe a #1 guy will be the necessary ingredient to upgrade our passing offense. I still have confidence that Price can up his play, but only if he gets an improvement over White and Finneran. If we had someone opposite him that was just as good as he was (if not better), then I think you would see Price's play improve, and our passing offense be more successful. Now, of course getting a true #1 WR will do the same and more. But I don't think the Falcons are in a position where they can just stand pat and wait on the next true #1 to fall their way. That could be several years from now, because really look around the league, how many true #1 receivers are there out there that you take in this situation? Maybe 10? 15? 20 maybe? Well considering that's at most a third of the league's starting receivers, I think that indicates that they aren't so easily acquirable. I believe that a decent WR is a dime a dozen, but starters are not, and esp. quality starters.

thescout wrote:We have 2 many holes to fill one beig a no1 recevier.

This team should not be in the mindset that they have to fill holes. We are a top team, but this team is still very young and green, and this is not a unit (on both sides of the ball) that is going to carry this team deep in the playoffs on a yearly basis. That's why we should be in the mindset of accumulating talent. We still don't have a lot of playmakers on either side of the ball. Maybe 4 or 5 on both sides at most, but this team needs to continue to get playmakers. If that means spending on a high-risk/high-reward #2 wideout, then so be it. But because we are still technically in rebuilding mode, we should be thinking more long-term. Not everything can be solved in a year. All I hope for is that McKay can make a few splashes in free agency that will go a long way to making us a perennial contender a few years down the line.

We are not yet a perennial contender. You might say, "No wait, we are because we have Vick." And that's true in a sense, but not really. The Packers say the same thing with Favre, but in fact think about how many times has anybody outside Green Bay thought the Packers had a Super Bowl-caliber team within the past 5 or so years? I'm sure there hasn't been an instance. They are always a potential contender, but they've never really been a true contender since 1998 when Reggie White left.

EDIT: I also wanted to add that I think even a 31-year old Derrick Mason still has a bit of mileage in the tank. Maybe he won't be having 96-catch seasons in regularity over the next 3-5 years, but I think he could be a consistent 70-catch guy.
"Vincere scis, Hannibal, victoria uti nescis" -- Maharbal, 216 B.C.E.


Points well taken

Postby thescout » Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:38 am

I would not mind Mason but I think he will ask to much money to come to Atlanta. You made a good point about while the players like josh reed,terrell etc etc are not no1 receviers we can still get better by getting another no2 receiver.Having another no2 recevier hopefully will free up Price and open the passing game.We know that isn't the only problem with the pass offense but it is part of it.I would scope the free agent wires for a receiver first since our draft choices are also key to rebuilding adding new talent.I will have to take a look at the recievers in free agency first hopefully there is some talent available.

When I mention to fill holes I mean with talented players.When I look at the falcon's I want the most impact players I can get.Did you see the USC vs oklahoma game the USC offensive line just played great not letting oklahmoma defense get close to Leinhart.The first thing in free agency is to get hopefully 2 offensive linemen.A guard and tackle I would prefer and I think it can be done.If the faclon's go deep in the playoffs hopefully other players will see the falcon's have a good thing going and want to play here on the offensive line.Two players I would love to have Ryan Diem and the guard you mentioned from Green Bay.I doubt we get both but we need at least 2 linemen from free agency.In the draft we need at least one off tackle that has promise.Shaffer and Weiner need to be cut,they just can't pass block.

There is some question about Thomas Davis whether he moves to linebacker.Why? That just takes away from his special talent at safety even though he needs improvement.

Return to “The Huddle”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest