Warner will start after all....

Discuss your favorite team: the Atlanta Falcons. As well as all NFL and pro football-related topics, including fantasy football.

Moderators: Capologist, dirtybirdnw, thescout

User avatar
BirdBrain
2009 Mock Contest Winner
2009 Mock Contest Winner
Posts: 12233
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:16 am
Location: Aschaffenburg, Germany

Warner will start after all....

Postby BirdBrain » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:07 pm

Denny had a change of heart.... :lol:

Chad504boy
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:18 pm

Postby Chad504boy » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:08 pm

not sure why he feels necessary to announce so early in the week who's going to start. lil confused by that.
ImageImageImage

User avatar
BirdBrain
2009 Mock Contest Winner
2009 Mock Contest Winner
Posts: 12233
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:16 am
Location: Aschaffenburg, Germany

Postby BirdBrain » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:17 pm

Chad504boy wrote:not sure why he feels necessary to announce so early in the week who's going to start. lil confused by that.


Because denny Green is Denny Green. Naming Leinart the starter was a knee jerk reaction to a bitter , stupid loss...now that the real minds on the team said he is a fool, does he change his mind.

User avatar
PB21
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 2902
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:53 am
Location: Arab, Alabama

Postby PB21 » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:20 pm

BirdBrain wrote:
Chad504boy wrote:not sure why he feels necessary to announce so early in the week who's going to start. lil confused by that.


Because denny Green is Denny Green. Naming Leinart the starter was a knee jerk reaction to a bitter , stupid loss...now that the real minds on the team said he is a fool, does he change his mind.


My goodness,...we agree again,...Green is a fool and a proven loser.

This is getting scary old man. :lol:

User avatar
Wease
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 2128
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 10:59 pm
Location: Deepinthehearta

Postby Wease » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:07 pm

Dennis Green is a terrible coach. The fans in Minnesota did not shed a tear when he left.

Art Shell and his OC Tom Walsh are horrible as well.

I am not sold on Joe Gibbs' return. He looks liek it may have past him by.

Crennel has not shown much yet.

Smith sucked his first year and tanked in the NFCCG.

Sean Payton has shown he has the chops. Mora has shown it in his first season, now he needs to show consistancy - he had much lesser tools his first year.

As much as I think Schaub will make a good QB in this league, Vick needed to play all 60 last night and it would not have mattered which QB started.

What does all of this mean? Not much other than sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you. I am not ready tho throw the coaches under the bus - yet.

W
Fantasy League Champion 2010
Pick Em Co-Champion 2011

We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude. We forge our tradition in the spirit of our ancestors. You have our gratitude.

User avatar
backnblack
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6457
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: Planet Claire

Postby backnblack » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:10 pm

Wease, I totally disagree that Vick needed to play 60 last night. they should have had his but ton the bench when the game was clearly out of reach but, no, he is in there running for his life with under two minutes left. That is just plain dumb. Sorry.

User avatar
BirdBrain
2009 Mock Contest Winner
2009 Mock Contest Winner
Posts: 12233
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:16 am
Location: Aschaffenburg, Germany

Postby BirdBrain » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:21 pm

I think the reason vick stayed in the game was based on Mora's fear that Schaub might come into the game, look sharp and then you have the beginnings of another QB controversy. Better to leave him in and continue to project a stable situation.

Birdman
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 1548
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:22 am
Location: Parts Unknown

Postby Birdman » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:27 pm

Hey, How 'bout Marvin Lewis? How's he doing?
Image
There's no question about that!

User avatar
backnblack
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6457
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: Planet Claire

Postby backnblack » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:29 pm

BirdBrain wrote:I think the reason vick stayed in the game was based on Mora's fear that Schaub might come into the game, look sharp and then you have the beginnings of another QB controversy. Better to leave him in and continue to project a stable situation.


Right. Painting with Kilz again today? :lol: If Vick had broken his leg on the last play of the game Mora would have been the last fatality attributable to Hurricane Katrina. That just made no damn sense.

User avatar
BirdBrain
2009 Mock Contest Winner
2009 Mock Contest Winner
Posts: 12233
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:16 am
Location: Aschaffenburg, Germany

Postby BirdBrain » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:40 pm

backnblack wrote:
BirdBrain wrote:I think the reason vick stayed in the game was based on Mora's fear that Schaub might come into the game, look sharp and then you have the beginnings of another QB controversy. Better to leave him in and continue to project a stable situation.


Right. Painting with Kilz again today? :lol: If Vick had broken his leg on the last play of the game Mora would have been the last fatality attributable to Hurricane Katrina. That just made no damn sense.


But he didn't. Mora, once again has to project vick as the leader of the team. He also has to protect Vick's ego. Pulling him from the game would have been interpreted as Vick not doing a good job. Plus , the way Vick plays he could break his leg at anytime...not just on the last play.

User avatar
backnblack
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6457
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: Planet Claire

Postby backnblack » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:14 pm

Faulty logic. If you want to "project" him as the leader you get him out of harm's way because he is too valuable in the war to lose in a single battle. Happens int he league all the time. Thi swould have protected his ego as well. "Mike, we cannot risk you getting hurt out there. We need you all season." True he could break his leg at any time but it would be less likely to happen if he were standing by the Gator-Ade jug in a hopeless cause than being out there. As a competitor he isn't going to want to come out. No one does. Mora has to be level headed and think about the big picture when his players are caught up int he emotion of the moment. Would Bobby Cox keep letting a starting pticher throw even though the game is lost? I know it is somewhat apple and oranges but the long term vs. short term argument is similar. I think Mora is too close to his players. This is not a psychological issue but one where you protect your assets and live to fight another day. It worked out all right but it was still dumb. Just my two cents.

Chad504boy
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:18 pm

Postby Chad504boy » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:17 pm

Afraid to let the fans see what kind of success the falcons might have with schaub back there... not saying, just sayin...
ImageImageImage

User avatar
BirdBrain
2009 Mock Contest Winner
2009 Mock Contest Winner
Posts: 12233
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:16 am
Location: Aschaffenburg, Germany

Postby BirdBrain » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:31 pm

backnblack wrote:Faulty logic. If you want to "project" him as the leader you get him out of harm's way because he is too valuable in the war to lose in a single battle. Happens int he league all the time. Thi swould have protected his ego as well. "Mike, we cannot risk you getting hurt out there. We need you all season." True he could break his leg at any time but it would be less likely to happen if he were standing by the Gator-Ade jug in a hopeless cause than being out there. As a competitor he isn't going to want to come out. No one does. Mora has to be level headed and think about the big picture when his players are caught up int he emotion of the moment. Would Bobby Cox keep letting a starting pticher throw even though the game is lost? I know it is somewhat apple and oranges but the long term vs. short term argument is similar. I think Mora is too close to his players. This is not a psychological issue but one where you protect your assets and live to fight another day. It worked out all right but it was still dumb. Just my two cents.


You make some valid points BNB. But only Mora knows the true reasoning behind his moves, I think he went way out of the way to project Vick as the leader of the team, and he didn't want to unceremonially pull him from a game on National TV. We could debate this point till the cows come home, you are right that he should have pulled him, but i was just giving my take on why i thought he left him in. When you think about ABE being left in when we were so far ahead (and getting hurt in the last two minutes,), then maybe it is a Mora thought processing error.

User avatar
dirtybirdnw
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4526
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:11 pm
Location: Vancouver, WA
Contact:

Postby dirtybirdnw » Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:18 pm

At the end of the day the Falcons had played horribly and did not earn the right to get off that field. If the team is laying an egg then every single player needs to stay out on that field. You don't get the opportunity to take it easy and get the 4th quarter off if you are getting your ass handed too you.
Fear the BEARD!

User avatar
Pudge
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
Posts: 26397
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:03 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Postby Pudge » Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:26 pm

Maybe it's just me, but if the Falcons had pulled Vick from teh game with 2 minutes to go it would have sent a worse message to the team.

That would have told the team implicitly that there was no chance of winning the game. Okay, maybe odds clearly said that the game was firmly in the hands of the Saints. But even still as the leader of your football team (or anything really) you don't want to show your players that you're giving up.

You say to your players, "Okay, so there is a 99.999% chance we lose this game. Doesn't mean we're going to pack it in. I want you guys to go out on the field and give just as much effort as you would if we were down by 3 points and on the verge of scoring a touchdown."

Unlike Vince Young or Aaron Rodgers or Andrew Walter or whomever, Matt Schaub doesn't need garbage time. He's a backup QB. He plays only when needed.
"Vincere scis, Hannibal, victoria uti nescis" -- Maharbal, 216 B.C.E.

User avatar
backnblack
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6457
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: Planet Claire

Postby backnblack » Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:42 pm

I guess so. Coughlin had Eli Manning in until the bitter end the other day too. I think you probably have to walk a thin line between "sending a message" and recognizing that your players probably have enough intelligence to know what the deal is anyway. Is Mora a "You can't handle the truth!" kind of guy or does he really respect the players' professionalism and good sense. We'll never really know. When you are down by 20 with less than a minute it is time to face the facts.

User avatar
Pudge
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
Posts: 26397
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:03 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Postby Pudge » Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:08 pm

I think it's about sending a message to your team and particularly Vick, saying "We're stuck in this hole. And regardless of who's fault it is that we're down here. I expect you to do your damdest to dig us out of it, even if realistically the game is over."
"Vincere scis, Hannibal, victoria uti nescis" -- Maharbal, 216 B.C.E.

User avatar
backnblack
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6457
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: Planet Claire

Postby backnblack » Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:49 pm

As BB said, we could argue this endlessly....and why not? :lol: I see it more like you say, "OK, we're screwed. Let's get 'em next week. It's a long season. Let's not dig ourselves a hole deeper than the one we are in." If Vick goes down in week 3, well, ask Chris Simms.

User avatar
thescout
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6611
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:02 pm
Location: Indianapolis IN

OK,I'll play

Postby thescout » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:26 pm

I understand both sides of the coin rest vick in hopes of battling another day in regards to keeping him healthy even though the games out of hand and let Vick play to show the team the falcon's are in it till the end. Personally I would have took Vick out and maybe put schaub in half way through the 4th.Vick wasn't moving the falcon's and why risk injury like ABE who was injured when the game was out of hand.
Sometimes running the Mularkey offense makes me feel like I'm in a prison.

User avatar
backnblack
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6457
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: Planet Claire

Postby backnblack » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:50 pm

You know, even Montana got yanked for Young every now and again when Walsh was in charge. I guess the question is...is Mora really in charge?

Birdman
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 1548
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:22 am
Location: Parts Unknown

Postby Birdman » Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:56 am

backnblack wrote:You know, even Montana got yanked for Young every now and again when Walsh was in charge. I guess the question is...is Mora really in charge?

Is a "Foreman" In charge of a warehousing company? Noooo.

That's part of the reason Mora was hired -- so few credentials he'd be glad/lucky to get a HC job so he won't buck up. McKay was sure to get most of the power for himself, while we all know Art likes a little pub too every now and again.

A guy like Denny, with his proven track record of WINNING and actually improving offenses would have been ideal from a coaching perspective, but he would not be so easily dominated in the coach/GM relationship as a guy getting his first HC shot like Mora.

No, Mora can only can certain coaches (i.e. not Gibbs) and certain players. He's an NCO "squad leader" amongst commissioned officers.
Image

There's no question about that!

User avatar
dirtybirdnw
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4526
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:11 pm
Location: Vancouver, WA
Contact:

Re: OK,I'll play

Postby dirtybirdnw » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:54 am

thescout wrote: why risk injury like ABE who was injured when the game was out of hand.


Like I stated earlier if the players put up and egg like they did against the Saints they need to stay out there and finish their stinkfest. They did not earn the right to get off the field and take the last 2 minutes off in the 4th quarter. They should be out there finishing off the game.

The game where Abe was hurt it was the total opposite. The Falcons had crushed the Panthers earning the right to get off the field in the closing minutes of the 4th quarter. Why Mora didn't pull them off then I don't know.
Fear the BEARD!

User avatar
dirtybirdnw
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4526
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:11 pm
Location: Vancouver, WA
Contact:

Postby dirtybirdnw » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:56 am

Birdman wrote:
backnblack wrote:A guy like Denny, with his proven track record of WINNING and actually improving offenses would have been ideal from a coaching perspective.


You are watching the train wreck down in Arizona right? Denny Green is famous for making great teams never achieve their full potential. Denny Green's teams are fabulous under achievers and massive playoff CHOKERS.

That and Denny's inability to figure out what quarterback he really wants makes him a unique head case.
Fear the BEARD!


Return to “The Huddle”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest