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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:54 pm 
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It's just the difference in true passion and posing. Some folks don't know the difference or don't care about the difference. The anti-celebratory stuff in college is ridiculous in the other direction. I never liked having hotdogs on my teams but as fans they can be entertaining in a LCD kind of way, I guess. In a culture where old folks are seen as out of touch and in the way, well, I wish I was young enough to be that smart. -ism

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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:26 pm 
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I hated Tebow-ing, too.
:whistle:
#wheresyergodknow,moses?

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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:33 am 
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You may prefer that players "act accordingly" but the simply reality that is a mere preference, and how players behave on the field has almost nothing to his actual performance. Some players will dance and jive, others are stoic. Does it matter which? No. You may prefer one to the other but don't act like your preference is anything more meaningful than whether you prefer blondes over brunettes or peas over carrots. BTW I'm a brunette/carrots guy myself. :dance:


And btw, fun gus, two can play that game....



This:

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And this:

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And all of this:

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Led to this:

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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:48 am 
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You forgot to add, P, that according to Time Magazine Sherman is now one of the "100 most important people in the world" and was invited to Obama's press dinner stand up comedian thing a couple months back. Can you say "crap culture?"

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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:57 am 
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Pudge wrote:
You may prefer that players "act accordingly" but the simply reality that is a mere preference, and how players behave on the field has almost nothing to his actual performance. Some players will dance and jive, others are stoic. Does it matter which? No. You may prefer one to the other but don't act like your preference is anything more meaningful than whether you prefer blondes over brunettes or peas over carrots. BTW I'm a brunette/carrots guy myself. :dance:


And btw, fun gus, two can play that game....



This:

Image

And this:

Image

And all of this:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Led to this:

Image



Image

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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:31 pm 
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It doesn't really matter who is doing it, it still sucks. A lot of the Seahawks gifs were clearly taunting, at least one of which drew a flag.

When I refer to the, "No Fun League," I'm talking about the rules that make the game slower, that take the game out of the player's hands, and that frustrate fans. Preventing players from taunting wouldn't be taking the, "fun," out of the game.

"Crap culture," is really what you're defending here. Not a single thing would be lost by eliminating the other forms of taunting that are currently allowed.

Richard Sherman is a poor example of a sportsman. He's obviously a very talented player, but the guy is a jackass. John Stewart said, "what about Bieber and Ford?" Yes, they're jackasses as well... criminal jackasses, in fact.

Don't get me wrong, there were jackasses when I was younger as well, and people with similar views to my own called them out back then as well. I'm one of those that hopes for a better future, not a continuation of the same stuff, different generation. I HOPE that we continue to evolve.


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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:31 pm 
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This is one of the biggest jokes of a thread I have seen on this forum over the past 8-9 years of its existence.

Taunting? Are you serious?

It's entertainment, people. Jiggling your belly to entertain the fans is going too far in a sport where people where run into each other full speed?

"I pay hundreds/thousands of my hard earned money to watch guys hit each other so hard that when they get older they develop depression and regularly commit suicide but the minute one of them mimes like he's eating with a spoon is when things go too far..."

Jesus Cristos! :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:42 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
"I pay hundreds/thousands of my hard earned money to watch guys hit each other so hard that when they get older they develop depression and regularly commit but the minute one of them mimes like he's eating with a spoon ( when he just tied his shoes vs a game sealing pick-6) is when things go too far..."

Jesus Cristos! :roll:



FTFY :roll:

look, Sherman wants to 'ball out'? Fine, he's earned it.

The rah rah guy that cant see the field? not so much.

Reminds me of Brooking. Jumping around like a jackass for getting a 'tankle' 10 yeard downfield.

earn it. :naughty:

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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:40 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
This is one of the biggest jokes of a thread I have seen on this forum over the past 8-9 years of its existence.Taunting? Are you serious?

It's entertainment, people. Jiggling your belly to entertain the fans is going too far in a sport where people where run into each other full speed?

"I pay hundreds/thousands of my hard earned money to watch guys hit each other so hard that when they get older they develop depression and regularly commit but the minute one of them mimes like he's eating with a spoon is when things go too far..."

Jesus Cristos! :roll:

Hyperbole.

But since you mention it, why is spinning a ball at someone's feet remarkably different than knocking them down and then flexing over them? All these kind of "moral judgment calls" suck because they almost require a ref to decide on intent. I don't think they should be governed out by the rules committee. I think they should be governed out by the coaching staff. You are correct that it is entertainment and, personally, I found it more entertaining when players entertained by making plays rather than trying to further their brand after doing so. But we really are largely a crap culture so whatever makes the most people smile at once is good, right? We wouldn't want to govern out that which only a small number find distasteful or offensive, would we?

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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:18 pm 
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fun gus wrote:
FTFY :roll:

look, Sherman wants to 'ball out'? Fine, he's earned it.

The rah rah guy that cant see the field? not so much.

Reminds me of Brooking. Jumping around like a jackass for getting a 'tankle' 10 yeard downfield.

earn it. :naughty:

Who cares? Well, obviously you guys do. :lol:

But whether it's the first play he's made or the 80th play, why is there some silly and arbitrary quota on the level of impact you have to have in order to justify a dance? Corey Peters isn't allowed to celebrate with the "Bernie" dance because he's not as good as Jonathan Babineaux? Osi Umenyiora can't do his "Rise Up" because he's a far cry from John Abraham?

Again, I ask what is the difference between a guy sacking a quarterback for a 6-yard loss on 2nd down versus a guy stuffing a running back for a 1-yard gain on 1st down? Nothing, besides what you put to it. Both of them are positive plays for the defense. Is one more positive than the other? Sure, but it's a very thin line between them.

You're only allowed to celebrate a touchdown? Okay, why? Because that's the best play you can make? Is Julio's 80-yard bomb against Janoris Jenkins more deserving of doing a jig than Steven Jackson's 4-yard run to cap off a drive?

Are his offensive linemen showboats for slapping him on the helmet with joy when he does punch it in? Is Roddy climbing up on Julio's back just taunting an opponent? Is Tony Gonzalez celebrating Levine Toilolo's first career touchdown overdoing it?

Please, explain to me your arbitrary designations of what is "too much" and what is "just fine?"

The point is you should be all in or not in at all. Any celebration should be seen as overdoing it, or every celebration should be fine. I didn't like Cam pulling his Superman when his team was down 20 points to the Giants not because of the celebration, but it showed that his perspective was all off. Not because I have some silly belief that "this is football" and that stuff doesn't belong on a football field, blah blah blah blah. I could care less if Cam does the Superman pose, just don't do it when you're down 23 points in a blowout. Other than that, I could care less when/where/how a player celebrates, taunts, showboats, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fZZqDJXOVg

But to sit there and make arbitrary decisions about what is acceptable to celebrate and what isn't is just downright silly.

The "holier than thou" attitude of fans is so annoying to me. William Moore is out there headhunting (just ask Josh Freeman), not a peep about how he's a dirty player. Roddy openly takes swings at cornerbacks just because they have the audacity to cover him tightly (just ask Corey Webster and Ron Bartell), not a peep about how "thuggish" he is (BTW, I hate that highly racially-charged word), and Dunta Robinson is lining up guys clearly for no purpose besides trying to knock them out (just ask Preston Parker), and nothing. But Richard Sherman does something, he's a thug, he's a jackass...but people always like to throw in that qualifier: but he can ball, so it's kinda OK because he can back it up on the field. :roll:

The hypocrisy of it all is so silly.

You: "I just wish players didn't play with all that so-called 'swagger' and do all that extra stuff. Why can't they play like they used to when guys were true 'professionals'?"
Me: "Like when? 60 years ago, when the league was unofficially segregated? Yeah, because football was soooo much better then."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGJb2iLvOKE&feature=kp

The genius of the sketch is how arbitrary and silly all the rules against celebrations are because some old fuddy duddies like you guys don't like more than 2 pumps.

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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:46 pm 
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I think I spelled out the difference between a celebration and a taunt earlier. But I'll say it again... If a player wants to jump in the air repeatedly, wants to give everyone on his team a high five, chest bump, fist bump, spike the ball, leap into the crowd, or otherwise, "celebrate," I'm ok with that.

When a player stands at the middle of the field and spoons air into his mouth, or a player, "yawns," points at players or coaches on the other team, does a choreographed dance, high-steps from the 30 yard line, etc, that's taunting.

To me, there's really not a lot of interpretation necessary. It's not hard to tell when a player is celebrating vs taunting. And if the player is unsure of the difference, save it for when they're on the sideline. What you do on the sideline is pretty much fair game.

This isn't the football version of the WWE, and it never should be. That failed experiment barely lasted a season.


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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:07 pm 
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So, essentially, disliking showboating is racism. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:28 am 
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backnblack wrote:
So, essentially, disliking showboating is racism. :lol:

We live in America my friend, everything is racism. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:49 am 
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Pudge wrote:
fun gus wrote:
FTFY :roll:

look, Sherman wants to 'ball out'? Fine, he's earned it.

The rah rah guy that cant see the field? not so much.

Reminds me of Brooking. Jumping around like a jackass for getting a 'tankle' 10 yeard downfield.

earn it. :naughty:

Who cares? Well, obviously you guys do. :lol:

But whether it's the first play he's made or the 80th play, why is there some silly and arbitrary quota on the level of impact you have to have in order to justify a dance? Corey Peters isn't allowed to celebrate with the "Bernie" dance because he's not as good as Jonathan Babineaux? Osi Umenyiora can't do his "Rise Up" because he's a far cry from John Abraham?

Again, I ask what is the difference between a guy sacking a quarterback for a 6-yard loss on 2nd down versus a guy stuffing a running back for a 1-yard gain on 1st down? Nothing, besides what you put to it. Both of them are positive plays for the defense. Is one more positive than the other? Sure, but it's a very thin line between them.

You're only allowed to celebrate a touchdown? Okay, why? Because that's the best play you can make? Is Julio's 80-yard bomb against Janoris Jenkins more deserving of doing a jig than Steven Jackson's 4-yard run to cap off a drive?

Are his offensive linemen showboats for slapping him on the helmet with joy when he does punch it in? Is Roddy climbing up on Julio's back just taunting an opponent? Is Tony Gonzalez celebrating Levine Toilolo's first career touchdown overdoing it?

Please, explain to me your arbitrary designations of what is "too much" and what is "just fine?"

The point is you should be all in or not in at all. Any celebration should be seen as overdoing it, or every celebration should be fine. I didn't like Cam pulling his Superman when his team was down 20 points to the Giants not because of the celebration, but it showed that his perspective was all off. Not because I have some silly belief that "this is football" and that stuff doesn't belong on a football field, blah blah blah blah. I could care less if Cam does the Superman pose, just don't do it when you're down 23 points in a blowout. Other than that, I could care less when/where/how a player celebrates, taunts, showboats, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fZZqDJXOVg

But to sit there and make arbitrary decisions about what is acceptable to celebrate and what isn't is just downright silly.

The "holier than thou" attitude of fans is so annoying to me. William Moore is out there headhunting (just ask Josh Freeman), not a peep about how he's a dirty player. Roddy openly takes swings at cornerbacks just because they have the audacity to cover him tightly (just ask Corey Webster and Ron Bartell), not a peep about how "thuggish" he is (BTW, I hate that highly racially-charged word), and Dunta Robinson is lining up guys clearly for no purpose besides trying to knock them out (just ask Preston Parker), and nothing. But Richard Sherman does something, he's a thug, he's a jackass...but people always like to throw in that qualifier: but he can ball, so it's kinda OK because he can back it up on the field. :roll:

The hypocrisy of it all is so silly.

You: "I just wish players didn't play with all that so-called 'swagger' and do all that extra stuff. Why can't they play like they used to when guys were true 'professionals'?"
Me: "Like when? 60 years ago, when the league was unofficially segregated? Yeah, because football was soooo much better then."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGJb2iLvOKE&feature=kp

The genius of the sketch is how arbitrary and silly all the rules against celebrations are because some old fuddy duddies like you guys don't like more than 2 pumps.



wait. you didn't like Cam Supermanning down by 20+points, yet you have the huevos to point at someone else's 'arbitrary decisions'? You don't see the blatant hypocrisy in that? By your own definition, you should be 'all in' and it should not have bothered you, right? Why the qualifier 'his perspective was off'? Cmon, your better then that.. And bringing race into shows me you know you've lost the argument. :whistle:

I did not like it when Brooking did it, and he did it ALOT. His jersey will someday be in the rafters. I don't care if you celebrate something, but not everything. When spork is doing his shovelface dance after a 2nd down stop in a game where we are getting blown out, that's bad right? all in?

cant have it both ways, Pudge. Brooking was the same type of overblown, overrated, jump on the pile late then jump around jackass, and it's why I never liked him. Shermam can celebrate all he wants, because he has earned it, imho. Now, if Sherman starts celebrating 2nd down silly situations alot, then maybe I will change my opinion of him as well.

I think the more important takeaway from all this ( besides your arbitrary nuthugging- :wink: ) is that we don't have a strong veteran defensive presence that would put a stop to it. There should be a guy who comes over to Spork on the sidelines, smacks him in the back of the helmet after another 2nd down dance and says 'hey, knock that sh*t off!'..Who's gonna do that? so-so Osi? Beerman? that is the bigger picture and the bigger problem. especially after Tony G's indictment after last season.

:naughty:

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Last edited by fun gus on Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:53 am 
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http://seattle.cbslocal.com/2014/06/18/ ... -minicamp/
You mean that thug, Sherman? Why, he was involved in a scuffle at training camp that was front page news. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:56 am 
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Pudge wrote:
backnblack wrote:
So, essentially, disliking showboating is racism. :lol:

We live in America my friend, everything is racism. :wink:

Probably right and, in so being, it is basically meaningless. Well done, America! :king:

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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:48 pm 
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fun gus wrote:
wait. you didn't like Cam Supermanning down by 20+points, yet you have the huevos to point at someone else's 'arbitrary decisions'? You don't see the blatant hypocrisy in that? By your own definition, you should be 'all in' and it should not have bothered you, right? Why the qualifier 'his perspective was off'? Cmon, your better then that.. And bringing race into shows me you know you've lost the argument. :whistle:

The difference fun gus, is that is the only instance where I don't like a player celebrating. Trying to distinguish between getting a stuff versus a sack or touchdown are distinctions I'm not willing to make. So 99.9% of celebration is fine with me. So I'm a lot closer to being "all in" than you are.

fun gus wrote:
I think the more important takeaway from all this ( besides your arbitrary nuthugging- :wink: ) is that we don't have a strong veteran defensive presence that would put a stop to it. There should be a guy who comes over to Spork on the sidelines, smacks him in the back of the helmet after another 2nd down dance and says 'hey, knock that sh*t off!'..Who's gonna do that? so-so Osi? Beerman? that is the bigger picture and the bigger problem. especially after Tony G's indictment after last season.

You mean like this guy:

Image

You guys have grossly unrealistic expectations for what leadership is and should be in the NFL. As a musician fun gus, are you and your boys "all business" when you perform a gig? No celebration until after the gig is over?

And let's say that you are...does that make you anymore effective a band than one that is out there having fun? No, it's about the music right?

This is such a similar argument as the one leveled against Cam Newton last summer: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18472

Why are so many fans quick to blame these intangible reasons for why a certain player/team isn't performing? I guess it's just human nature. It's easier to say that the team lacked leadership and character as to why 2013 was doomed as some all-encompassing reason than they 892 actual reasons why they lost games last season.

:doh:

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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:09 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
fun gus wrote:
wait. you didn't like Cam Supermanning down by 20+points, yet you have the huevos to point at someone else's 'arbitrary decisions'? You don't see the blatant hypocrisy in that? By your own definition, you should be 'all in' and it should not have bothered you, right? Why the qualifier 'his perspective was off'? Cmon, your better then that.. And bringing race into shows me you know you've lost the argument. :whistle:

The difference fun gus, is that is the only instance where I don't like a player celebrating. Trying to distinguish between getting a stuff versus a sack or touchdown are distinctions I'm not willing to make. So 99.9% of celebration is fine with me. So I'm a lot closer to being "all in" than you are.

fun gus wrote:
I think the more important takeaway from all this ( besides your arbitrary nuthugging- :wink: ) is that we don't have a strong veteran defensive presence that would put a stop to it. There should be a guy who comes over to Spork on the sidelines, smacks him in the back of the helmet after another 2nd down dance and says 'hey, knock that sh*t off!'..Who's gonna do that? so-so Osi? Beerman? that is the bigger picture and the bigger problem. especially after Tony G's indictment after last season.

You mean like this guy:

Image

You guys have grossly unrealistic expectations for what leadership is and should be in the NFL. As a musician fun gus, are you and your boys "all business" when you perform a gig? No celebration until after the gig is over?

And let's say that you are...does that make you anymore effective a band than one that is out there having fun? No, it's about the music right?

This is such a similar argument as the one leveled against Cam Newton last summer: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18472

Why are so many fans quick to blame these intangible reasons for why a certain player/team isn't performing? I guess it's just human nature. It's easier to say that the team lacked leadership and character as to why 2013 was doomed as some all-encompassing reason than they 892 actual reasons why they lost games last season.

:doh:

]


wait. you don't like Cam showboating in one circumstance, I don't like Spoon doing the same in the other..it is a matter of semantics here. I don't mind a little celebration, but just not all the time, or on meaningless plays, or when we are getting our a$$es handed to us. It's ironic, Pudge, because usually I am the voice of the individual vs the collective and in this instance, your advocating for the individual athlete over the collective team. strange...

now onto your analogy. depends a lot on the gig. In February we played for Turner for the NBA allstar game and was shown Nationwide for all of 30 seconds. Shaq played my bass drum and Barkely rapped insults at Shaq through my megaphone.. In March, we played a wedding in South Miami for a great deal of $$$, our highest paid gig.

Image

Image


But, in a week we will be playing for beer outside a bar in Little Five Points.

Image


clearly, we aren't going to 'act a fool' for a 8k wedding or a national broadcast. But we damn sure will, and take longer solo's, and breaks for the beer gig.

well, this isn't flag football with the gang from underwriting. it is the NFL. millions of dollars, careers, all that stuff is more pronounced. Is it too much to ask that you keep your stupid spoon dance limited to when the 'great play' you made is at least one that matters? no semantics here: if your celebrating your vaunted 2nd down tackles, ala Brooking, then don't be surprised when old fuddy duddies like me don't exactly cry a tear when they don't resign you down the road.

and not to sound condescending, but lately I've learned a lot about 'real leadership'. one, from being a father, and another from being a small businessman. I have a 50% shareholders stake in a small corporation my wife and I own, with offices in Atlanta and Denver. We bought out Northwestern Mutual a couple years ago. we provide group health benefits for larger corporations. Have had to watch Liz hire, and fire. I've seen and heard about every nightmare scenario, and were only just getting started! things are so much more intense when it's really your a$$ on the line. I think I've said this before, but my wife's office is like 13 chicks and one strange male. One thing that stands out to me, is how people react when the SHTF.

two employees, but both make a mistake that could cost the company $$. one girl is horrified, apologizes and tries to fix it or make up for it. the other chick is sorry it happened, but excuses it by saying 'Im sorry, Im just so distracted now...my boyfriend moved out and I have been unable to sleep. I'll try to do better'.

the second one is all 'me me me'. down the road, if all remains the same, who do you think gets the promotion?

the first one has a concept of the company of a 'team' she delights when the company does well, not just herself. these people still exist: but trust me on this one, they are getting harder and harder to find.

(sidenote: the other thing is how my old lady deals with it when something goes south. before we owned the company, it wasn't that big of a problem. But now, she has to have all the other chicks see her keep her sh*t straight. She can't go cry in the bathroom. she has to 'lead'.)


the thing is, even when I was a young man, I had some cool older people who helped me by telling me ( in the musical world) 'here's what to do, here is what not to do,etc..'. what I have been seeing lately in almost all sports is less and less of those older, experienced voices and their impact, and more of a slide into the tech world of 'selfies', 'Ima gunna get mine', etc...The Tony G's and Joe Horns are still there, but there is less of them?

I may be wrong, but even an a$$hole like Slay Edwards would probably make sure none of the excessive celebrating on just 'doing your job' would fly. I think he would sidle over and say 'hey Spoon. settle down,kid. there's still a lot of game left to play'.

so let me be clear: I don't care if you celebrate, just don't do it all the time. when you do it 'all the time', in my opinion, it cheapens the lot of them. and that goes for any player, any position, any race, anytime.

and it is a TEAM sport. TEAM. sometimes, leadership is driving this point home. it's not a primary reason we sucked last year, but after Tony G saying they were lazy my takeaway is there is an absence of veteran leadership on the defensive side of the ball. your opinion may vary :ninja:

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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:23 pm 
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You get around, Gus. :clap:

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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:10 pm 
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backnblack wrote:
You get around, Gus. :clap:



hey, I might be a whore...but I am honest about it.

if I wasn't, I would be a politician :ninja:

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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:48 pm 
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fun gus wrote:
backnblack wrote:
You get around, Gus. :clap:



hey, I might be a whore...but I am honest about it.

if I wasn't, I would be a politician :ninja:

At least you're desirable. We have to pay people to come see us play.

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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:08 pm 
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fun gus wrote:
wait. you don't like Cam showboating in one circumstance, I don't like Spoon doing the same in the other..it is a matter of semantics here. I don't mind a little celebration, but just not all the time, or on meaningless plays, or when we are getting our a$$es handed to us.

The plays aren't meaningless. If on 1st-and-10, Pierre Thomas runs up the middle and Spoon stuffs him for a 1-yard gain, he's just lowered the Saints chances of converting a first down on that drive by 10%. In the context of 130 plays over the entire game, yeah that is a relatively meaningless play, but in the context of situational football where every possession is the only possession that matters and thus every play is the only play, it means everything.

I recall several years back our good friend PB21 talking about how football was a game of chess. I corrected him by saying that football is not like chess at all, rather like checkers, mainly because of that distinction. In chess, you're setting up moves well in advance of when you actually execute them. In football, you don't do that nearly as much. Sure, you'll run the double bubble screen early in the game to Julio Jones to see how a defense defends it in the hopes that perhaps later in the game you can exploit that if you they do so again. BUt you're not calling plays with the intention of setting up play calls in subsequent drives. Your sole goal is to score on each possession or to stop the team from scoring on each possession.

And thus celebrating a "meaningless" stop 1 or 2 yards down the field isn't as meaningless as you think.

fun gus wrote:
It's ironic, Pudge, because usually I am the voice of the individual vs the collective and in this instance, your advocating for the individual athlete over the collective team. strange…

Sounds like you're implying that these celebrations take away from the team concept. Which my point is that they do not. People have these very antiquated notions about the team vs. individual.

fun gus wrote:
Is it too much to ask that you keep your stupid spoon dance limited to when the 'great play' you made is at least one that matters?

Which is my point. What is a "great play?" It's some arbitrary definition that you have come up with that you somehow expect Spoon to agree with. As a fan, what are the plays that get the crowd most hyped? Long bombs, huge runs, Touchdowns, sacks and turnovers, right? In your world, these are the things worth celebrating. But your world is not his world is it? In his world, he understands that stuffing Pierre Thomas for a 1-yard gain on first down is a significant boost to the defense. And if in the process, he happens to make an excellent wrap tackler and lower the boom, then all the more reason to celebrate.

Defenses have to play with energy due to the fact that they are inherently disadvantaged against the offense simply because they are guessing at what the play is (instead of knowing) and the league-mandated rules that try to limit defensive effectiveness.

If Spoon's celebration adds a little energy to the other 10 guys, then that slightly increases the chances that they get another defensive stop on 2nd down. What is the evil in that?

fun gus wrote:
and not to sound condescending, but lately I've learned a lot about 'real leadership'. one, from being a father, and another from being a small businessman. I have a 50% shareholders stake in a small corporation my wife and I own, with offices in Atlanta and Denver. We bought out Northwestern Mutual a couple years ago. we provide group health benefits for larger corporations. Have had to watch Liz hire, and fire. I've seen and heard about every nightmare scenario, and were only just getting started! things are so much more intense when it's really your a$$ on the line. I think I've said this before, but my wife's office is like 13 chicks and one strange male. One thing that stands out to me, is how people react when the SHTF.

two employees, but both make a mistake that could cost the company $$. one girl is horrified, apologizes and tries to fix it or make up for it. the other chick is sorry it happened, but excuses it by saying 'Im sorry, Im just so distracted now...my boyfriend moved out and I have been unable to sleep. I'll try to do better'.

the second one is all 'me me me'. down the road, if all remains the same, who do you think gets the promotion?

the first one has a concept of the company of a 'team' she delights when the company does well, not just herself. these people still exist: but trust me on this one, they are getting harder and harder to find.

You're quick to make the business to football comparisons, but forget one fundamental fact:

The two aren't as comparable as you think, especially when it comes to what occurs on the field. The fundamentals of business apply very well to football on the organizational macro-view and particularly when it comes to front office and coaching decisions.

But when it comes to actually being on the field, they don't mesh quite as nice. Because being on the field is really about this guy blocking that guy, this guy running that route, this covering that guy, and this guy tackling that guy. It's really just about guys running around and hitting people.

Thus my music analogy. You can apply the business principles when it comes to lining up gigs, scheduling rehearsals, etc. but at the end of the day, when it gets down to the gig, it's really just about everybody in the band playing their instruments and knowing their role.

If a guy in the middle of the set veers off and starts doing an unwanted solo, that's not a good thing. But that's not what Spoon is doing. He's miming pulling a spoon out of his pocket and bringing it to his mouth when the ball is dead.

And the likely reality is that he probably only does it maybe 2 or 3 times a game, yet the way this thread reads, it makes it seem like he's doing it 30 or 40 times per game. And as someone that reviews games, I can attest that 97% of the time, Spoon is doing it after he makes a significantly positive play for the defense. Yet, for most of the denizens watching the game, getting a 2-yard stuff on 2nd-and-8 is meaningless, when it is in fact meaningful in the right context (which is something most fans utterly lack).

Spoon embraces the nature of the sport, which is to entertain 60-75,000 people every Sunday. It's no different than someone if your band as gyrating his hips "a little extra" as he's crushing that trumpet solo. And if you and the rest of the band see chuck crushing that solo and getting into it with that extra hip gyration, that might spur you on 2% to start having a little more fun out there while playing, and maybe, just maybe you all will crush that set/gig.

It's harmless fun, which is my overall point. People act like it's some reflection of our degrading culture, which is basically "old man speak" for "I'm out of touch." But don't worry it happens to everyone. Every successive generation of human beings has said since the dawn of time, "Darn these young kids today. Back in my day things were blah blah blah."

I'm 31 now, and I find myself doing it on occasion.

But as I said at the outset of this thread, it's silly when people complain about player celebrations and act like they are anything more than harmless fun. In one particular context they can be annoying or ill-timed, but almost in any other circumstance, just let the guys have fun.

I know many want to live in a world where they root for a team that is great and all-business and just goes out and dominating as if it's nothing with no frills and no hassle and has a non-nonsense, all-business coach on the sidelines like Bill Belichick and that is reflected on the field, but we don't live in that world. That world simply doesn't exist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC4c4eOH7Y4

It just makes no sense to me that people that get up every Sunday, spend all that time and money on tickets, gas, beer, food, etc. just so they can be entertained by the greatest game on the planet (besides curling of course) want a finite limit on the amount of entertainment because of some silly and baseless belief that too much undermines a player and/or team's overall performance.




btw BEWBS!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:40 pm 
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Good points, Pudge, even the old man speak stuff (-ist). OTOH, if you don't think American culture is on the downswing you aren't watching. But you know the old cliché that ends with "show me an old man who isn't a conservative and I'll show you a man without a brain."

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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:16 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
Spoon embraces the nature of the sport, which is to entertain 60-75,000 people every Sunday. It's no different than someone if your band as gyrating his hips "a little extra" as he's crushing that trumpet solo. And if you and the rest of the band see chuck crushing that solo and getting into it with that extra hip gyration, that might spur you on 2% to start having a little more fun out there while playing, and maybe, just maybe you all will crush that set/gig.
]



o m g

embraces? wow. WOW!

it's too late for me to refute this nonsense. perhaps in a day or so.

hilarious :ninja:

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 Post subject: Re: Spoon out for the year
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:03 am 
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Pudge wrote:
The plays aren't meaningless. If on 1st-and-10, Pierre Thomas runs up the middle and Spoon stuffs him for a 1-yard gain, he's just lowered the Saints chances of converting a first down on that drive by 10%. In the context of 130 plays over the entire game, yeah that is a relatively meaningless play, but in the context of situational football where every possession is the only possession that matters and thus every play is the only play, it means everything.

So I guess if Thomas had gotten 5 yards, he should have gotten up and done a back flip?

Our defense has been a garbage heap for the past 3-4 seasons. They suck so bad that they celebrate the plays where they, "do their job." And you're saying that they should be able to show some swagger... But not when they consistently get their butts blown off of the field. Stop someone on 2nd down for a 1 yard gain, and give up 20 yards on third down. That's who we are.

What Fun Gus is saying is that Spoon should shelve that crap until our defense isn't a suck fest. Once we're not a suck fest, it would be fine by FG if Spoon were to do his antics, when he makes a, "big play," and not a routine stop.


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