fun gus wrote:
wait. you don't like Cam showboating in one circumstance, I don't like Spoon doing the same in the other..it is a matter of semantics here. I don't mind a little celebration, but just not all the time, or on meaningless plays, or when we are getting our a$$es handed to us.
The plays aren't meaningless. If on 1st-and-10, Pierre Thomas runs up the middle and Spoon stuffs him for a 1-yard gain, he's just lowered the Saints chances of converting a first down on that drive by 10%. In the context of 130 plays over the entire game, yeah that is a relatively meaningless play, but in the context of situational football where every possession is the only possession that matters and thus every play is the only play, it means everything.
I recall several years back our good friend PB21 talking about how football was a game of chess. I corrected him by saying that football is not like chess at all, rather like checkers, mainly because of that distinction. In chess, you're setting up moves well in advance of when you actually execute them. In football, you don't do that nearly as much. Sure, you'll run the double bubble screen early in the game to Julio Jones to see how a defense defends it in the hopes that perhaps later in the game you can exploit that if you they do so again. BUt you're not calling plays with the intention of setting up play calls in subsequent drives. Your sole goal is to score on each possession or to stop the team from scoring on each possession.
And thus celebrating a "meaningless" stop 1 or 2 yards down the field isn't as meaningless as you think.
fun gus wrote:
It's ironic, Pudge, because usually I am the voice of the individual vs the collective and in this instance, your advocating for the individual athlete over the collective team. strange…
Sounds like you're implying that these celebrations take away from the team concept. Which my point is that they do not. People have these very antiquated notions about the team vs. individual.
fun gus wrote:
Is it too much to ask that you keep your stupid spoon dance limited to when the 'great play' you made is at least one that matters?
Which is my point. What is a "great play?" It's some arbitrary
definition that you have come up with that you somehow expect Spoon to agree with. As a fan, what are the plays that get the crowd most hyped? Long bombs, huge runs, Touchdowns, sacks and turnovers, right? In your world, these are the things worth celebrating. But your
world is not his world is it? In his
world, he understands that stuffing Pierre Thomas for a 1-yard gain on first down is a significant boost to the defense. And if in the process, he happens to make an excellent wrap tackler and lower the boom, then all the more reason to celebrate.
Defenses have to play with energy due to the fact that they are inherently disadvantaged against the offense simply because they are guessing at what the play is (instead of knowing) and the league-mandated rules that try to limit defensive effectiveness.
If Spoon's celebration adds a little energy to the other 10 guys, then that slightly increases the chances that they get another defensive stop on 2nd down. What is the evil in that?
fun gus wrote:
and not to sound condescending, but lately I've learned a lot about 'real leadership'. one, from being a father, and another from being a small businessman. I have a 50% shareholders stake in a small corporation my wife and I own, with offices in Atlanta and Denver. We bought out Northwestern Mutual a couple years ago. we provide group health benefits for larger corporations. Have had to watch Liz hire, and fire. I've seen and heard about every nightmare scenario, and were only just getting started! things are so much more intense when it's really your a$$ on the line. I think I've said this before, but my wife's office is like 13 chicks and one strange male. One thing that stands out to me, is how people react when the SHTF.
two employees, but both make a mistake that could cost the company $$. one girl is horrified, apologizes and tries to fix it or make up for it. the other chick is sorry it happened, but excuses it by saying 'Im sorry, Im just so distracted now...my boyfriend moved out and I have been unable to sleep. I'll try to do better'.
the second one is all 'me me me'. down the road, if all remains the same, who do you think gets the promotion?
the first one has a concept of the company of a 'team' she delights when the company does well, not just herself. these people still exist: but trust me on this one, they are getting harder and harder to find.
You're quick to make the business to football comparisons, but forget one fundamental fact:
The two aren't as comparable as you think, especially when it comes to what occurs on the field
. The fundamentals of business apply very well to football on the organizational macro-view and particularly when it comes to front office and coaching decisions.
But when it comes to actually being on the field, they don't mesh quite as nice. Because being on the field is really about this guy blocking that guy, this guy running that route, this covering that guy, and this guy tackling that guy. It's really just about guys running around and hitting people.
Thus my music analogy. You can apply the business principles when it comes to lining up gigs, scheduling rehearsals, etc. but at the end of the day, when it gets down to the gig, it's really just about everybody in the band playing their instruments and knowing their role.
If a guy in the middle of the set veers off and starts doing an unwanted solo, that's not a good thing. But that's not what Spoon is doing. He's miming pulling a spoon out of his pocket and bringing it to his mouth when the ball is dead.
And the likely reality is that he probably only does it maybe 2 or 3 times a game, yet the way this thread reads, it makes it seem like he's doing it 30 or 40 times per game. And as someone that reviews games, I can attest that 97% of the time, Spoon is doing it after he makes a significantly positive play for the defense. Yet, for most of the denizens watching the game, getting a 2-yard stuff on 2nd-and-8 is meaningless, when it is in fact meaningful in the right context (which is something most fans utterly lack).
Spoon embraces the nature of the sport, which is to entertain 60-75,000 people every Sunday. It's no different than someone if your band as gyrating his hips "a little extra" as he's crushing that trumpet solo. And if you and the rest of the band see chuck crushing that solo and getting into it with that extra hip gyration, that might spur you on 2% to start having a little more fun out there while playing, and maybe, just maybe you all will crush that set/gig.
It's harmless fun, which is my overall point. People act like it's some reflection of our degrading culture, which is basically "old man speak" for "I'm out of touch." But don't worry it happens to everyone. Every successive generation of human beings has said since the dawn of time, "Darn these young kids today. Back in my day things were blah blah blah."
I'm 31 now, and I find myself doing it on occasion.
But as I said at the outset of this thread, it's silly when people complain about player celebrations and act like they are anything more than harmless fun. In one particular context they can be annoying or ill-timed, but almost in any other circumstance, just let the guys have fun.
I know many want to live in a world where they root for a team that is great and all-business and just goes out and dominating as if it's nothing with no frills and no hassle and has a non-nonsense, all-business coach on the sidelines like Bill Belichick and that is reflected on the field, but we don't live in that world. That world simply doesn't exist:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC4c4eOH7Y4
It just makes no sense to me that people that get up every Sunday, spend all that time and money on tickets, gas, beer, food, etc. just so they can be entertained by the greatest game on the planet (besides curling of course) want a finite limit on the amount of entertainment because of some silly and baseless belief that too much undermines a player and/or team's overall performance.