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 Post subject: Falcons Draft a 3-4 DE - RaShede Hageman
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 8:32 pm 
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Didn't expect that pick... Atlanta can't deny they are going 3-4 now.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/ds ... &genpos=DT

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 Post subject: Re: Falcons Draft a 3-4 DE - RaShede Hageman
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 8:33 pm 
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Article from a U of M area newspaper:

A year ago, Ra'Shede Hageman sat and watched the NFL draft knowing he made the right decision to return for his senior year at the University of Minnesota.

"I definitely wanted to graduate and needed another year under my belt," he said. "I wanted to get more comfortable."

Now, with a degree on his wall and 315 pounds on his 6-foot-6 frame, the defensive tackle believes he's ready for the NFL. The goal, he said, isn't just to get selected in the first round Thursday night, but to become one of the league's best linemen.

He already is projected to be the first Gophers player taken in the first round since tailback Laurence Maroney was selected 21st overall by the New England Patriots in 2006.

Coincidentally, several NFL mock drafts predict the Patriots will take Hageman 29th overall this year.

"Hageman right now would be a good pick for New England," ESPN draft analyst Mel Kiper Jr. said. "He's the kind of guy, you look at his athletic ability, the way he can bat down passes. He needs a little more stamina and endurance to play four quarters, but I think New England would be that team."

Kiper also thinks defending Super Bowl champion Seattle could take Hageman 32nd to bolster an already strong defense.

Wherever he goes, the Minneapolis Washburn grad finally feels ready to take advantage of the opportunity, something he believes would not have been possible without four years of college, on and off the field.

"I'm just kind of embracing everything," he said. "Obviously, it's kind of overwhelming. But it lets me know to keep focusing and to stay hungry. I have a goal at hand, and I plan on reaching that."

Washburn coach Giovan Jenkins, Gophers football coach Jerry Kill and Hageman's parents will be with him in the green room at Radio City Music Hall in New York City on Thursday, when the NFL will put the first round on prime-time television.

"He's a once-in-a-lifetime player as far as I'm concerned," Jenkins said.
Gophers footbal defensive lineman Ra’Shede Hageman spoke with the media after practice on Thursday, August 22, 2013. (Pioneer Press: Scott
Gophers footbal defensive lineman Ra'Shede Hageman spoke with the media after practice on Thursday, August 22, 2013. (Pioneer Press: Scott Takushi)
"I think the sky's the limit. I think he can be an all-pro. He just has to fine tune his skills and continue to develop."

Maroney and cornerback Willie Middlebrooks, selected 24th overall by Denver in 2001, are the Gophers' only first-round picks in the past 24 years. Safety Brock Vereen is one of the top sleepers in this draft and projected to go as early as the third or fourth round.

"It helps us; it helps our program," Kill said. "That's what it's all about. It's the best publicity for the state of Minnesota and our university. I'm very proud of them."

Hageman might not be here were it not for his adoptive parents, Eric Hageman and Jill Coyle, who stabilized a difficult childhood by adopting Ra'Shede and his brother, Xavier, 16 years ago.

Hageman's biological father died when he was a toddler, and his mother had limited contact with her children because of her drug abuse. By the time he was 7, Ra'Shede had been in 12 foster homes.

"When they adopted me, they put me in sports right away," Hageman said. "If I wasn't adopted by them, I don't know where I would be. I definitely wouldn't be here. The opportunity to play sports got me to where I am now."

One of Hageman's youth coaches at McRae Park in Minneapolis, Kendrick Williams, watched him struggle with his attitude as a teenager. "He got frustrated when things didn't always go his way," Williams said. "It was hard for Ra'Shede to handle adversity."

Hageman, an All-American tight end at Washburn, was the most gifted in-state recruit to pick the Gophers during coach Tim Brewster's tenure, but it was Kill who pushed him to focus more on school and studying the game.

After Brewster was fired in 2010, Hageman was a long way from reaching his potential on or off the field. He had been suspended for academic reasons and moved to a new position, defensive end.

"I don't think any other kid would have stuck through at the U," Williams said.

Hageman, who has a 3-year-old son, graduated in December with a degree in youth studies. He also finished his career as a team captain and All-Big Ten first-team performer after leading the Gophers with 13 tackles for loss among his 38 tackles last season. And he recorded his first career interception in an upset victory at Northwestern and blocked two kicks.

His eight pass breakups ranked among the top five nationally for a lineman.

"Nothing makes you more proud," Kill said. "Ra'Shede and I go way back here. To see how that young man is handling himself right now is tremendous."

Last summer, the backs of McRae Park's camp T-shirts read, "Never Forget Where You Come From." Hageman hasn't. He returned to where it all started to talk to kids about how he changed.

"Once I have some free time, I definitely want to start some camps at McRae, just to inspire the next Ra'Shede Hageman or whoever who can grow up and one day use my story and my camp to be successful," Hageman said.

In the months leading up to the NFL scouting combine, Hageman worked out in California. The goal was to show scouts just why he's such an athletic freak, and he didn't disappoint.

He was one of the top three performers in the bench press with 32 reps at 225 pounds. Hageman also had a 35.5-inch vertical jump, 114-inch broad jump and ran 5.02 seconds in the 40-yard dash -- all impressive numbers for a man his size.

"The combine was a lot different," he said. "You had physicals and MRIs. They wake you up early. It was kind of like them throwing you a fastball. It was obviously something new to me. It was a moment that I'll take in for the rest of my life. It was a great experience. But it's just about playing football at the end of the day."

Pittsburgh's Aaron Donald, who won the Bronko Nagurski Award as the best defensive player in college football, is considered the top defensive tackle in this year's draft and a probable top-10 pick. Hageman is the next interior defensive lineman projected to come off the board, late in the first round.

The book on Hageman is that he could be a star if the right team is committed to developing his talent. He's bigger, faster and stronger than most players at his position but isn't nearly as polished.

Gophers coaches had to nag him about lowering his pad level last year.

"A lot of teams have seen that I've only been playing (defensive tackle) for three years," he said. "So I'm still new at the position. They still know I have a lot of potential."

NFL teams could use him in a 3-4 or 4-3 defensive scheme as either a nose tackle or three-technique defensive lineman who lines up on the outside shoulder of a guard.

Fox college football and NFL Network analyst Charles Davis says he spoke to some NFL coaches who believe Hageman even could play defensive end at times, which he did for the Gophers last season.

Davis would be surprised if Hageman isn't drafted in the first round.

"We've talked about him so much as being a boom-or-bust guy," Davis said. "You see the talent, but you don't see it all the time. There are stretches where you're saying, 'Is he out there? Where's No. 99?' But then you will see plays where you go, 'Wow! Whoa! Did you just see that?'

"He's a terrific player. The more tape you watch on him, the more he grows on you."

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 Post subject: Re: Falcons Draft a 3-4 DE - RaShede Hageman
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 8:48 pm 
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dirtybirdnw wrote:
Didn't expect that pick... Atlanta can't deny they are going 3-4 now.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/ds ... &genpos=DT


Yes, you can. They are a hybrid. They probably played more 3-3-5 last year than anything else, which is neither 3-4 nor 4-3. You are at least 5 year out of date on defenses.

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 Post subject: Re: Falcons Draft a 3-4 DE - RaShede Hageman
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 9:04 pm 
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Seems like he could be a 3-4 DE or a 4-3 UT. I would guess we're going to see him a lot on 3rd down at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: Falcons Draft a 3-4 DE - RaShede Hageman
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 9:14 pm 
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Interesting pick, didn't see this coming at all. I didn't do any research on this guy pre draft as I didn't thank we'd take this type of player this early. Guess it's Google time.....

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 Post subject: Re: Falcons Draft a 3-4 DE - RaShede Hageman
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 9:46 pm 
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http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/4/22/5 ... ensive-end

The Notebook: What to make of Ra'Shede Hageman
By Stephen White on Apr 22 2014, 9:30a

Another defensive tackle garnering some buzz after a very good NFL Combine performance is former Minnesota Golden Gopher Ra'Shede Hageman, so I decided to take a longer look at him. For the purposes of this breakdown I watched Hageman play against Iowa, Northwestern, Penn State, Wisconsin and Syracuse. Those represented the fifth, seventh, 10th, 11th and 13th games of Hageman's final season, respectively.
An enigma wrapped inside a mystery

I'm honestly not sure what to make of Ra'Shede Hageman.

He is almost 6'6 and weighs 310 pounds. He has longish arms at 34 1/4 inches long. He is obviously powerful on the field and in the weight room, where he repped out 32 times with 225 pounds. He is also pretty athletic as the interception and short runback he made against Northwestern illustrates.

But he doesn't make very many plays.

The plays he does make tend to be of the big variety, which is a plus. However, none of those big plays were a sack. That's right, five games and no sacks. And nope, he didn't have a bunch of hurries either. In fact, he only hit the quarterback three times by my count in those five games.

Three times.

He did have five tackles for a loss in those five games, but one of them came at the end of his very average Iowa game. The other four stood out because of the contrast in how he played the run the majority of those games. It was maddening because those plays showed that he could do it, but I couldn't figure out why he didn't do it consistently.

Probably the best thing Hageman did do consistently over the course of the five games was get his hands up and try to knock down passes. I know that this is the new thing for defensive linemen. I get it. A guy that size who maybe isn't a great pass rusher can still help your team by knocking down passes at the line of scrimmage. Hey, a win is a win on third down, I agree on that part.

I don't put a high priority on it, because I just wasn't taught that way. We literally laughed at guys in the film room who we saw stop their rush to try to jump up and knock down passes back in Tampa in the late 90s and early 2000s. We looked at it as a sign that they had given up on ever trying to be a good pass rusher at that point. I mean nothing is wrong with putting your hand up as you are trying to run through the quarterback, but stopping at the line of scrimmage and trying to block the passes from there?

We're playing football, not volleyball, Holmes.

I know some folks are about ready to get their #CAPS #CAPS #CAPS on in the comments to let me have it after saying such mean things about knocking down passes. I also know the first name most of them will throw out there will be J.J. Watt.

Hold your horses.

I love Watt. Yes, he has done a great job of knocking down passes, but you are fooling yourself if you think the monster contract that he is likely to sign in the next two years is more about PBUs than it's about the sacks. Watt is a hellafied pass rusher, but on the rare occasion when he gets stopped at the line, he looks to knock down passes. That's a totally different animal.

I think Hageman won five pass rushes combined in those five games.

*checks notes*

Yes, five, dassit.

So, what gives? Well, it's complicated.

Empty toolbox

To say that Ra'Shede Hageman is raw would be disrespectful to sushi. The only thing he consistently did well other than knocking down a few passes was getting in his stance. Harsh, but basically true.

Hageman flashed a quick get-off at times, but most of the time he was slow off the ball. His hands were all over the place which prevented him from getting full extension and locking his elbows against the run most of the time. He didn't try any finesse pass rush moves to speak of, and even though he is a big powerful guy, his power rushes weren't all that successful either.

That's because he plays with high pad level (he doesn't bend his knees to stay low) that will get your ass kicked consistently against the run, no matter how big and strong you are. His technique was so poor that I counted at least 23 times when he was out of his gap in those five games. I say at least because there are some plays where it's hard to tell if he is running a stunt or not. On those particular plays there was no ambiguity. It's hard to have success against the run in a 4-3 defense like that.

Now the truth is that when you are that big, strong and quick, you are inevitably going to make some plays. I admit that I laughed and muttered "oh s***" a few times watching him toss guys up on random plays in those five games. Against Northwestern, there are some flat-out hilarious plays where a guard goes flying back so far and fast that it almost looks fake.

After I stopped laughing I got frustrated though, because I asked myself why in the hell can't he do that ALL the time?

This is going to be a very important question for any team looking to draft Hageman. If it's just a matter of him needing to be coached up, most teams will believe they can get him coached up. However, if it's a matter of him not being motivated, that is going to rightfully scare a lot of teams off.
Chillin'

I am sure you are expecting me to give Hageman a pass because if he is that raw, it must be coaching. Especially since I called out the coaching for Jadeveon Clowney.

Yeah, um, I just don't know this time, thus my quandary.

None of the other guys I've broken down so far were close to being as inconsistent with their effort as Hageman. There was one play against Iowa that perfectly encapsulated the Jekyll and Hyde nature of his effort. He fights a double team on a passing play, stays active moving around, the quarterback drops the pass off to the running back and Hageman takes off running to get to the play. He gets all the way out to the running back with a full head of steam and then ...

... he runs right past the play.

Look at the play closely, folks. It's not that he missed the tackle. He shut it down effort-wise when he saw someone else make contact with the runner instead of trying to get himself a piece of the action too. What in the hell is that about?

First of all, if you run your ass allllllll the way out there to the ball, why would you deny yourself the reward of blowing up the runner?

Seriously?!

Secondly, and maybe most important, those big hits from guys hustling down the field often result in a fumble because the runner isn't prepared for the force of the blow. Recall my breakdown of former UCLA linebacker Anthony Barr and how many plays he made from hustling down the field. Well if Hageman ran down the field, you were just as likely to see him not touch anybody as you were to see him try to get in on the tackle.

I say if because he only ran to the ball some of the time. Other times, like the Penn State game, you might catch him walking while the ball carrier is still getting positive yards just ahead of him.

I understand that Hageman is a converted tight end, which could explain his less than aggressive approach on the field at times. The thing is, he converted like three years ago; it's hard to keep using that excuse at this point. If you're a GM, are you willing to bet your job by taking him in the first round and hoping the light turns on for him next year?

No sir, not me.
However ...

I wouldn't take Hageman in the first round, but you would be a damn fool not to take him in the second round. That might not seem like a big difference to you, but how many times have you heard people have a conversation in the barber shop about "second-round busts"? I'm not sure I ever have. No "worst second-round pick lists" stand out to me either.

Free from some of the outside expectations of a first-round pick, a team could elect to take a slower approach with Hageman and teach him good technique while rotating him in that first year rather than throwing him out there as a starter right off the bat before he's ready. That could do wonders for his career and really benefit the team long term as well.

There's another reason why I think it will be worth it.

Hageman reminds me of an old teammate of mine, Marcus Jones. Marcus was an All-American defensive end at North Carolina, but he was so big and strong that our coaches in Tampa wanted him to play inside at defensive tackle. That didn't go so well to start. Marcus was close to the same height as Hageman and had a hard time staying low. He also, like Hageman, was a little wild with his hands which hampered his ability to get his arms fully extended when playing the run. Without that full extension, all of that power that both Marcus and Ra'Shede possess goes to waste.

Marcus was a first-round pick, so after a few years where he couldn't break into the starting lineup, people around here started throwing the "b" word around (bust, not anything else, just bust). Then a funny thing happened. Marcus asked the coaches to let him play defensive end instead. That move helped revive his career and get him all the way up to 14 sacks in the 2000 season. Unfortunately, his body broke down pretty rapidly on him, but you have to wonder how different his career might have been had the coaches tried him at defensive end from day one.

If I were drafting Hageman, that's exactly what I'm doing. That's a Captain Obvious move if you run a 3-4, but I'd do it in a 4-3 as well. I don't know that he will ever be dominant as a defensive tackle, but I do see the potential for dominance from defensive end. Minnesota stuck him out at defensive end a few times, and he did some pretty good things considering it wasn't his full-time position. Hell, one of his hits on the quarterback came from right defensive end where he just beat up on a left tackle and came inside on a level (rusher gets just beyond the level of the quarterback then falls back inside for the sack) rush.

It's still going to be somewhat of a crapshoot because of the motivation question. A team better have a hard-ass defensive line coach in place and a strong defensive line group to make sure he gets pushed as much as possible from day one. There is only so much coaches can control, and since how hard he goes isn't one of them, it will have to be a leap of faith for the team that takes him.

As the saying goes, "scared money don't make money." Ra'Shede Hageman is a project, but one that could pay off big time for the team that selects him. I fully expect someone to bet on Hageman; I just don't think it will be in the first round.


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 Post subject: Re: Falcons Draft a 3-4 DE - RaShede Hageman
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 11:30 pm 
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Yeah, the biggest knock on Hageman is effort and motor, not your typical Falcons pick. I saw a bit of him during the season and was impressed with his tools and potential. Didn't watch much after that because I too figured he was a long shot to be a Falcon.

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 Post subject: Re: Falcons Draft a 3-4 DE - RaShede Hageman
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:14 am 
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If we were a team like Seattle or San Fran that was stacked and didn't have a lot of holes this would have been a great BPA pick but we have already had depth there and capable starters. The pass rush goes without being addressed once again, but its ok because Coach Smith says sacks are not important :roll: . When will TD learn that 4th, 5th, and 6th round DE/OLB do not get the job done.

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 Post subject: Re: Falcons Draft a 3-4 DE - RaShede Hageman
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 9:23 am 
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The Mattural wrote:
If we were a team like Seattle or San Fran that was stacked and didn't have a lot of holes this would have been a great BPA pick but we have already had depth there and capable starters. The pass rush goes without being addressed once again, but its ok because Coach Smith says sacks are not important :roll: . When will TD learn that 4th, 5th, and 6th round DE/OLB do not get the job done.


I am having a hard time figuring this one out, after TD did so well in the first.

I'm probably waaay off, but something tells me since TD missed out on trading up he just couldn't help himself and had to be 'cute'and grab some fallen 'project' in the hopes that our 'mean' new coach can take him and turn him into a bada$$. If this guy struggles, and we have a season like last years, that seat aint hot anymore...it's empty

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 Post subject: Re: Falcons Draft a 3-4 DE - RaShede Hageman
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 9:29 am 
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You know... The author of this might be spot on... This guy could be a heck of a DE in either a 4-3 or 3-4. If he is as strong and as fast as is claimed, he could manhandle OTs. I see no reason not to give him some reps at RDE rather than DT. At DT he could get swallowed up, and bored. Someone like that, you have to keep engaged. Smith does have a history of playing people, "out of position."


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 Post subject: Re: Falcons Draft a 3-4 DE - RaShede Hageman
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 12:44 pm 
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I have two issues: A. That we'd pick a guy with a questionable motor and put him anywhere near Osi who is the king of questionable motors, B. That this coaching staff has been pretty incapable of 'coaching a player up' on the defensive side of the ball. Seems like another Sidbury, I.E. wasted pick.

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 Post subject: Re: Falcons Draft a 3-4 DE - RaShede Hageman
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 9:19 pm 
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Dimitroff and Smith have made their bed, they will have to sleep in it. As with every draft there will be diamonds in the rough, and some poor decisions will be exposed. Either or both of these sayings will be relevant here:

"scared money don't make money"


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 Post subject: Re: Falcons Draft a 3-4 DE - RaShede Hageman
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 1:03 am 
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MarylandFalcon1 wrote:
I have two issues: A. That we'd pick a guy with a questionable motor and put him anywhere near Osi who is the king of questionable motors, B. That this coaching staff has been pretty incapable of 'coaching a player up' on the defensive side of the ball. Seems like another Sidbury, I.E. wasted pick.


I agree with the Osi reference, I don't want anyone young or impressionable around him.

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 Post subject: Re: Falcons Draft a 3-4 DE - RaShede Hageman
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 11:12 pm 
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I think Osi's impact will be marginal. I have a feeling the Falcons think Cox is going to light a fire underneath him. Lets hope that is the case.


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 Post subject: Re: Falcons Draft a 3-4 DE - RaShede Hageman
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 1:25 am 
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Here's what I make of Ra'Shede Hageman

I just can't excited over anyone who is labled "he doesn't make very many plays".

That's right, five games and no sacks. And nope, he didn't have a bunch of hurries either. In fact, he only hit the quarterback three times by my count in those five games.

When I read this and think that he'll now be playing against professionals;
I pretty much know what we're getting.. The same batch of players who can look pretty good in college, but just suck as a professionals. We get more of our share of these every year!!

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 Post subject: Re: Falcons Draft a 3-4 DE - RaShede Hageman
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 1:54 am 
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I think Hageman impressed the Falcs during the Senior Bowl. Here's my problem do you let the Senior Bowl practices override all the game tapes the kid played in college? The same can be said of Southward. What kind of scouting is this good senior bowl practices override game tape?

All I have to say is if Hageman and Southward don't produce then TD and Smitty should both be gone. Why am I taking a harsh view of them. Well the competition seemingly got much stronger and the Falcs may have only Mathews that does well in this entire draft plus Freeman. Anyway it all comes to if the Falcs can win. If they don't then the only people that need to be looked at our the decision makers in Smitty and TD.

You simply can't not make moves in free agency to strengthen the pass rush and then be blind on draft day also and have the same issues not solved. I understand the strategy but it's a huge gamble that the Falcs can get the necessary push from the middle during passing downs and let the Biermann's, Osi's, and the draftees handle the pass rush, Had I had the choice I would have taken Tuitt to play 3-4 def end. Much greater production although there is risk due to health concerns. I would have drafted Louis Nix over Southward. What do I know I'm just an armchair fan sitting behind a computer. We spend tons of money on scouts and the process of drafting a prospect and this is what we come up with. I hope the draft class of 2014 does well but time will tell everything we need to know.

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 Post subject: Re: Falcons Draft a 3-4 DE - RaShede Hageman
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 1:46 pm 
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It seems to me Atlanta is leaning heavily on their coaching staff being able to coach up some athletically gifted but raw players.

On the plus side most the defensive players Atlanta drafted have plenty of upside albeit riskier than players Atlanta has targeted in recent drafts. I suspect this is the influence of Pioli since Dimitroff tended to go with the safer pick.

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 Post subject: Re: Falcons Draft a 3-4 DE - RaShede Hageman
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 5:14 pm 
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the scout wrote:
Here's my problem do you let the Senior Bowl practices override all the game tapes the kid played in college?

It worked with Desmond Trufant...

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 Post subject: Re: Falcons Draft a 3-4 DE - RaShede Hageman
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 6:01 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
the scout wrote:
Here's my problem do you let the Senior Bowl practices override all the game tapes the kid played in college?

It worked with Desmond Trufant...


Are you sure about that Pudge. Maybe memory isn't a good as it was but I thought Trufant played well in college.

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 Post subject: Re: Falcons Draft a 3-4 DE - RaShede Hageman
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 10:07 pm 
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Trufant went into the Senior Bowl considered a Day 2 (2nd/3rd round) prospect and then balled out during senior bowl week enough that people start propelling him as a mid to late 1st round pick. He and Dee Milliner were the only 2 corners in the class that was a consensus 1st round pick.

Without that Sr. Bowl week, Trufant would have been in the same group as guys like Jamar Taylor, Johnthan Banks and Darius Slay.

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"Vincere scis, Hannibal, victoria uti nescis" -- Maharbal, 216 B.C.E.


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