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 Post subject: whats up with that?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:28 pm 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH9NuhzORcE


a couple weeks ago, Tony G came out and said while he admired Ryan and he was a great QB, he was not yet 'Elite'.

Then, he said he noticed that the Falcons 'gameplanning and practising' was lackluster. I find this odd.

Now, he's waited to file his retirement paperwork, (which he would have to in order to be a 'commentator') and that is inconsistant with his behaviour. I mean, the team can 'cut him' with no problems, but it still strikes me as odd.

seriously, whats up with that? Is this a guy who needs to stirrup the chum while transitioning into a TV guy ( needs to show he can offer 'opinion') , or do you think maybe he is a little pissed they didn't trade him back to KC when they offered a trade, and our season was over?

his point about them not being in shape is very telling, IMO. discuss: :ninja:

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 Post subject: Re: whats up with that?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:34 am 
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I don't think he's stirring up the chum. I think he's giving a legit, honest opinion, an opinion that would be harder to give if you were still cashing checks from the team.

Imagine if Gonzo had said what he said and was still expected to play for the Falcons in 2014. This would be a much bigger story than it was, and the media would be questioning whether it's a distraction (while trying to simultaneously make it a distraction).

Now Gonzo can say this, and by the time June rolls around, nobody will be talking about it.


I never heard/saw the practicing/gameplanning comments. Would be curious if you could post/link to those exact comments.

As for their lack of good game planning, uh yeah...

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 Post subject: Re: whats up with that?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:34 pm 
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well, I looked but could not find a link, however here is FalconBill from the 'Roost speaking on an interview done on 790 the zone ( with Mike Bell, not Archer..). I caught some of it in the car, but was not paying too much attention..But from way bacn Feb 22 he writes:

"The other telling thing was the Gonzalez story and the reporter who followed him throughout he year. Everybody got caught up in the "Ryan is not yet elite" comment, but the more substantive thing he said was that the Falcons don't know how to practice. I've felt for some time now that the Falcons have mismanaged their roster and practice squad because they do a poor job of self evaluation. Practice is critical to determining who starts and how you manage your depth chart. IMHO, Tony's practice comment was an indictment of this coaching staff with starts with the head coach."

"Most people missed that unless you actually heard the interview on one of our local AM sports talk stations on a Saturday a couple of weeks ago of the reporter who followed Gonzo throughout the year. All the talking heads focused on the "Ryan isn't elite" remark and I didn't hear anybody talk about the "Falcons don't know how to practice" comment. The talk radio guy pressed the reporter for names and Gonzo didn't single out specific players but it had to do with "getting yourself ready to play games." The reporter went on to talk about Gonzo's "legendary" workout regimen.

You can read a lot into this. Are the practice sessions not intense enough? Are individual players slacking off? When a guy who's been in the league for 15 years and played at the highest level makes a comment like this, it sure got my attention. I have to give those second tier AM radio guys some credit for uncovering that bit of info. The "A" team talk radio guys who operate Monday-Friday wouldn't never had gotten past the "Ryan isn't elite" and just rode that dead horse into the ground. "

Since he was pimping his 'fitness app', I took the comment that 'they dont know how to practice' as 'when Lamar Holmes is outta shape 4 weeks into the season, someone ( coaches, players) is slacking off.

http://www.falconsroost.com/forums/inde ... opic=36894

I mean, he didnt have to say anything about it, but apparently he did. I may be innocent enoughm or just taken out of context. wierd. :ninja:

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 Post subject: Re: whats up with that?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:36 pm 
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The passage below is what I believe Fun Gus is referring to:

"In September he had invited players to join him in his routine. A few did initially, but now nobody participates. He watches other receivers casually play catch and chitchat before practice -- then drop key passes on Sunday. Gonzalez fears and fantasizes about what he might say if he were to address the team."

That was in the Seth Wickersham piece on ESPN titled "Out Route".

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 Post subject: Re: whats up with that?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:56 pm 
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He looks his teammates in the eyes. "A lot of you don't know how to work," he says. "Whether you think you know it or not, it wasn't good enough. Look at the season." It's the most devastating statement he's ever delivered. There's no telling how it is going over, but he doesn't care. "Don't waste this losing," he says. "Don't waste this season. You grow the most when you face this type of stuff."
His speech lasts about 10 minutes. At the end, Gonzalez begins to choke up. He doesn't notice, but several teammates are beginning to cry too, including Ryan, from wounded pride, from guilt, from the sight of a future Hall of Famer showing his heart. Gonzalez ends by saying, "Thank you for the opportunity to play with you."
They give him a standing ovation.

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_ ... /out-route

thanks Mattural. I just got it second hand, but this confirms it for me. Read that, put it together with what FalconBill posted, and its clear as day. Tony wanted to be traded, and they f*cked him. No wonder he isn't worried about signing his retirement papers. IMO, he should eat three really bad truck stop burritos, drink a chocolate milkshake, then sign those papers and wipe his sh*tty a$$ with them and have his agent mail them back!

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 Post subject: Re: whats up with that?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:28 pm 
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Tony was a great player due to his tireless work ethic and preparation, reminding me allot of Jerry Rice. I'm sure when he looks around the room he sees allot of guys, who if they went all in like him could be much better.

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 Post subject: Re: whats up with that?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:14 pm 
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Very, very few people have the work ethic, psychology, and physiology that he has. We're not talking about an ordinary player who raises himself up from obscurity to become an average NFL player; if we were, we wouldn't.

Tony expects a lot out of himself, but that doesn't mean that everyone around him will adapt and do that. Especially when they see team leaders traded away and on the sidelines injured. Who wasn't participating? Julio? Injured. Roddy? Injured. Do we really expect HD and Cone and The Hands of Truth do it because some guy who is depressed, complaining, and retiring is doing it?

For whatever reason, the team's chemistry was horrible last year. Two linemen showed up grossly out of shape, Ryan was scared for his life, and the offensive play-calling fed off of this. The D played without their two emotional leaders for most of the year, "replaced" Abraham with Umenyiora, and had their cocky ball-hawk safety turn in an epic failure of a season.

To add to this, the front office pulled the biggest "We give up" move while simultaneously saying that they had avoided the "give up" move: they picked up Brian Robiske. Was there a worse psychological move to make? It would have been one thing if he came in and played well, but he didn't. F-you from the front office and coaching staff to the players.

Bravo to Tony for being who he is, period, but that same guy is so down in the locker room that the coach has to call him out for it. That's who he is. At some point it starts to look like the team success is notable to him because it is his success, and that pushes people away. How many people in that locker room would say "If had known it would be like this, I wouldn't have come"? Would Roddy have skipped the year? Biermann? Grimes?

The culture needs to improve for ATL, but that's just one of several things. Perhaps not having his looming, brooding specter in the locker room will help. However, I'll bet a healthy Julio, a real RG, and a better D help more. Whether it's a legit improvement or a facade over some bad decisions will be seen. As much as I'll miss Tony's presence in the offense, I'm absolutely thrilled to get rid of the "win one for Tony" philosophy and it's associated bad decisions.


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 Post subject: Re: whats up with that?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:51 pm 
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Im sorry, but I reject that on it's face.

"Very, very few people have the work ethic, psychology, and physiology that he has. We're not talking about an ordinary player who raises himself up from obscurity to become an average NFL player; if we were, we wouldn't.

Tony expects a lot out of himself, but that doesn't mean that everyone around him will adapt and do that..."

You are correct, but how many dead lock first round HoF'ers to you think had the 'work ethic' of Lamar Holmes? There may be a few, but they would be anomalies. The greatest percentage of HoF players shared Tony G's attributes. You get a guy like THAT in your locker room, coming back after literally being BEGGED by the Falcons: and he offers to 'help' and nobody does? That is grade a horsesh*t IMO, and inexcusable. INEXCUSABLE!


I dont care what your line of work is, if you are in a 'performance based' job in the private sector, there is always guys like TG. I have had (like BnB) a long and continuing musical career. Im all of my 48 years, 35 of which I got paid to perform, I only saw one 'anomaly'. It while as a high school student at the School for Creative and Performing Arts when I won a scholarship there in the 80's ( yes, during the embarrasing FAME years :oops: ) and I saw a musical prodigy. This kid a serious social issue ( this was way before the spectrum days) but if you put a violin in his hands, he could make it mimic almost any song on the radio. I remember challenging him to play Whodini's 'the freaks come out at night' on it when he had never even heard it. I played it on my boombox (yes, I was in parachute pants) and damn if he didn't do it to the note. He played in every production as first chair, even though he NEVER practised with the orchestra. The teacher would just play the entire production: ONCE. And he would have immeadiate recall. It was wierd, but awesome to see in person. I think it was called 'perpetual audio recall' or something like that, but once he heard ANY music, he would immediately be able to reproduce it. And remember it forever. (but thats all he could do, he could never write his own stuff which puzzles me to this day)

That guy could not 'teach' anyone. He was just a freak. I mean that in a positive way, I will always,always be in awe of him.

But we had other folks who got be be very good by a defined work ethic. Pluggers, we called them . They would do anything that needed to be done. Sarah Jessica Horseface was one of those who didn't really have the 'connections' ( like Goerge Clooney ) but worked her a$$ off. By her sophmore year, she landed a touring company of 'Annie', followed by Square Pegs, and on and on because she dedicated herself to her craft ( musicals, at the time).

But alot of my old classmates hate her for this. They call her a 'sell out', and are viciously jealous of her. We never even really saw her that much after her sophmore year, even though she is on the schools wall of fame. She doesn't have that 'freak gene', she's a plugger. An a$$-buster.

Just an aside. But a guy like Lamar Holmes reminds me of those old fat biddies I saw at my reunion..

Also, many years ago, I had the happy opportunity to play with Bo Diddley. Back in the 90's he never traveled with a band, he would have the club owner take the house band, or piece something together for him. I got the lucky straw , and I was nervous as hell. I dont know if you guys know his catalogue, but it's not that complicated. But, I was nervous as a dog with two dicks. I practised excessively on the drums to the point of absurdity. But, once we settled into the groove, it was all good. He was so used to playing with just about anybody, he had learned how to ease everyone into it. He didn't help me that much, but we did 4 nights with him here in GA, and one of my good friends learned a helluva lot about slide guitar and open tunings from a guy who never used them because his 'shave and a haircut-2 bit' song structure didnt use it. But, and here is the important part: HE KNEW THEM. And: he shared them without being asked.

Now is a somewhat musical legend 'offers' to teach you something and you pass it up, then thats on YOU. Likewise, TG may have been a 'brooding presence' ( I would be, too) but he OFFERED TO HELP and nobody jumped. That's F*cked UP! Joe Horn aint going into the HoF, but he helped Roddy! You got a gay-ron-teed HoFer offering to train youm and you decide to play 'catch' during pregame? And somehow, it's on TG because they let him sit out camp? And when he DID get there, those f*ckers were out of shape?

"THE NEXT WEEK, the Falcons lose again in the final seconds, this time to the Dolphins. They're now 1-2, and Gonzalez is already beginning to lapse into hopelessness. That worries his friends and family. Part of being close to a professional athlete is to temper his mood, rebuild his confidence. Dennis flies from his home in Kansas City to Atlanta for every home game, assuming that role for Gonzalez. On Saturday afternoon before the next game, against the Patriots, the two of them are in his den, watching college football. Gonzalez worries that injuries are demolishing the Falcons offensive and defensive lines and that quarterback Matt Ryan is indecisive, scared to make a mistake. Gonzalez wonders why he caught four passes on the first drive against the Dolphins and none the rest of the game.
"Why didn't you say anything?" Dennis asks.
"I did," Gonzalez says.
That midweek discussion with coaches pays off against the Patriots. Gonzalez catches 12 passes for a career-high 149 yards. But the Falcons trail 30-23 with 41 seconds remaining. On fourth down from the New England 10, Ryan lofts a pass into the end zone to receiver Roddy White, a little high but catchable -- the kind of catch Gonzalez practices 500 times a week, the exact one he probably would have caught. White can't haul it in....."

Call me crazy, but if we all could see Roddy was gimped and should have been SAT, what do you think a 15 year HoF veteran is going to think about that? Hell, I would have sh*t a healthshake that minute. And can someone tell me why TG has to go the coaches and get this point across? Really?! :shock:


What a bigger, better man he is then I will EVER be. If I had that kind of talent, I would have burned that thing down to the ground 5 minutes after 4 of the trade deadline :snooty:


*FunGus note: I know I am biased, and given to 'excuse' TG 'absense' from camp. I do see how that decision could have messed up the locker room. But you have to ask if we squeeked out 2-2 in the first four games, I see the whole locker room attitude differently. It sucks to lose close, but imagine you see your injured WR dropping thr game sealing catch, yeah Id be pissed too :ninja:

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 Post subject: Re: whats up with that?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:30 am 
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I'm with fun gus on believing that Gonzo didn't expect everybody to work on his level, but expected them to work at a higher than normal level. I remember reading the article and thinking at the time, that a big part of his bitterness was driven by the realization that few others on the team wanted it as badly as he did. That's what drove him to "not mind" being dealt. He wanted to play on a team where winning mattered.

samedi wrote:
To add to this, the front office pulled the biggest "We give up" move while simultaneously saying that they had avoided the "give up" move: they picked up Brian Robiske.

Where have you been all my life? :wub:

At least I know one person gets it, and why everybody's hyperfocus on the OL play is somewhat misguided. Again, that move alone tells you everything you need to know about the Falcons 2013 season. Basically they either didn't know that they needed more WR help (i.e. a real playmaker) than Robiskie could provide, or they didn't know that Robiskie couldn't provide the help they needed. Either way this is a fundamental deficiency in how the team operates, meaning either they can properly determine when there is a significant flaw on the team, or they can't determine that s***ty players like Robiskie are actually s***ty.

Again their history points to this. You can say their lack of building up the OL/DL over the years is a sign of the former, as well as their retention of Michael Turner in 2012 as a good sign of the other.

samedi wrote:
Perhaps not having his looming, brooding specter in the locker room will help.

This is an interesting aspect worth considering…

Whether or not the pressure to win has become too much pressure. Thus it might be worthwhile for the team to take the "building up" from scratch approach they had early in Dimitroff/Smith's tenure, as opposed to the "bridging" approach which is trying to find that last bit of push to winning it all.

But I can only guess at that. I try to only look at on-field stuff, since that is the only info I'm privy to. And the Falcons simply didn't make the adjustments on the field. Fun gus quotes that part of the article about the NE game. So Falcons adjust to not feeding Gonzo vs. MIA and feed him a lot vs NE. But then NE unveils the "vice" coverage at the end of the game, and it helps them win. Then NYJ start off the game with it, and it helps them too. The Falcons MAKE NO ADJUSTMENT to this vs. NYJ, nor in any other game since.

They continue to line up in the red zone with Gonzo between the hashes, where he can be double-teamed with the vice coverage. Call me crazy, but the fix to this is so obvious that I'm starting to think I must be completely wrong because the team never did this…split Gonzo out wide. If you want that big presence in the middle of the field, then put Toilolo at TE. But do the Falcons every play Toilolo in the red zone? Not really in 2nd half of the season once Coffman was healthier. And it's not like they were playing Coffman either. They just continued to put Harry Douglas and Darius Johnson on the field in red zone, these teeny tiny WRs that can't win in traffic rather than a 6-6 and 6-8 TE.

It's this inability to adjust that really makes me dislike Dirk Koetter with a passion. But also blame Mike Smith. He's the head coach, he's ultimately responsible for the offense that is fielded. So either he is to blame somewhat because he did nothing to try and get Koetter to adjust, or again he didn't realize that he needed to adjust. And given his history, it suggests more the latter, which worries me again about the fundamental issues that plague this team.

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 Post subject: Re: whats up with that?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:57 am 
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Well Pudge and Fun Gus have said a handful in their last posts. :idea: I agree that this management team just doesn't understand how to build the team properly. Being able to evaluate players is critical in any form of business yet it seems that the Falcons don't emphasize this which is why last year was so horrendous. It's why we so little competition for positions because certain players are handed a job without anyone pushing them.

It starts with the General Manager who hires the coach and acquires the players. I had to ask myself the question the last few years how many Falcons could play and start for the teams who eventually went to the Super Bowl. The answer is very few which is a problem when you want to win championships. We saw this year the disparity of talent between Seattle/San Fran yet the Falcons some how thought they were in the same league as those teams talent wise.

I'm hoping with the addition of Pioli and some others that the right players come to Atlanta. Then we have the problem of Smitty still making boneheaded errors or the offensive coordinator not putting the right players and plays. Ultimately someone has to take the fall but we saw no changes. I guess Smitty has decided to sink or swim with the coaches he prefers. Will see after this year if Smitty is still around or the Falcons have decided that a different coach is needed.

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 Post subject: Re: whats up with that?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:18 am 
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I prefer to take a glass half full approach. I hope they have learned that their current system wasn't working and that they need to make adjustments. I pray that they don't think that one elite OL or DL will turn them back into 13 game winners.


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 Post subject: Re: whats up with that?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:22 pm 
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I had not read that article before but just the fall out about it. Really good piece and a great window into the team and Tony's make up. I'm sorry but I will never ever feel sorry for a guy with a gorgeous wife like that being paid millions to play a game but I do sympathize with his frustration. In whatever capacity you are working--be it a team or a rock and roll band--it is eternally frustrating to deal with others who don't want it as bad as you. Desire is a skill.

Cool story about Diddley, FG. I wouldn't describe being a pro musician "like BnB". I have been paid to play and still am at times but it was never any more than well below poverty level!

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 Post subject: Re: whats up with that?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:17 pm 
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And if your bassist had a clogged ear and couldn't stay in tune and Bo was actively broadcasting that the s*** dive you were in in Malvern, Arkansas was a s*** dive in Malvern, Arkansas? And that he was pissed at having to play with you because you weren't up to his expectations? There's your metaphor. Still want to learn the slide guitar? I'm guessing 95% would pass on that just to avoid him.

In order to be Tony, you have to have the combination I referenced above; you are right (though you echo me) with asking how many first ballot HoFers there are are out there: ridiculously few. Thus my point about not being able to be Tony, because they aren't there. A better question to ask is how many "Horsefaces" are out there who will come back to their former high schools to hang out with the people who call them "horseface." Because in suggesting that he was wasting his time coming back this year, he called his teammates "horseface": instead of focusing just on her positive attributes as a thespian, you feel the need to call her that. And she is. And it makes it totally understanding why she doesn't want to come back, and probably why she didn't participate in the school much after she saw that she was willing to be more than "horseface."

I walk this line every day in a "college prep" high school English classroom. At no point can I become elitist to the point where I can say that they lack the drive to succeed and have it become my mantra. I can think it; I can know it, but I cannot let that be broadcast or the ship won't move forward, and the ship must move forward.

I'm not saying that no one took what he said about practicing to heart. However, the sub-leaders were injured or off the team, and saying that the WR didn't practice with him is disingenuous on its face. That doesn't make for a persuasive argument to do it.

In one last comparison (sorry, this is how I think): We went to see Tool last night in SF. Danny Carey was ungodly (I'm not sure who's on your list, FG, but he's in my top 5) and I spent the show watching his technique, his positioning of the elements of the kit, his lean to achieve balance and limb independence. At the end of the show, Danny and Adam Jones, the guitarist, came out to the edge of the stage and waved and smiled and bowed and threw drumsticks into the crowd. The bass player stayed for a minute and then went in. The lead singer didn't even look at the crowd and walked off after the last show. My buddy, one of the most experienced concert-goers I know and an audiophile, turned to me and said, "What a dick." No matter how good Danny was, people will often place that psychological rejection over the benefits of the experience. If Danny had pulled that--if he had kicked over the drums, scowled, and flipped off the crowd--I don't think I would be as keen as I am today to drop the level of my snare and toms to see if it gives me a bit more speed and precision.

2 for the road:

-Your opinion is misguided and simplistic; you can make a metaphor, but not a conceit, and I deserve a better class of poster than you to respond to.

-Your opinion really made me think, and--while I still disagree with you--the Bo Diddly experience sounds awesome I'd love to have that chance; I'm glad you made the best of it. Is there a video of you playing out there? Who are your inspirations as a musician? I think that disagreeing with my argument "on its face" doesn't synch with "you are correct" less than 100 words later, but I think I get where you are coming from. I'm glad this discussion popped up: It gives me an opportunity to rethink my opinions (and go practice a bit on the kit).

Which one makes you want to say "f*** off, asshole" and which one sounds a bit more open-minded and appreciative, wanting to develop?


Apologies if I am overly pedantic or didactic in this response. So it is perfectly clear: I often disagree with you, FG, but I absolutely appreciate having your perspective to argue with, laugh with, and enjoy; you are a great facet to the board. Your arguments make me a better thinker and fan. :up:


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 Post subject: Re: whats up with that?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:28 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
But I can only guess at that. I try to only look at on-field stuff, since that is the only info I'm privy to.


History vs English/Psychology major? =)

Pudge wrote:
And the Falcons simply didn't make the adjustments on the field. Fun gus quotes that part of the article about the NE game. So Falcons adjust to not feeding Gonzo vs. MIA and feed him a lot vs NE. But then NE unveils the "vice" coverage at the end of the game, and it helps them win. Then NYJ start off the game with it, and it helps them too. The Falcons MAKE NO ADJUSTMENT to this vs. NYJ, nor in any other game since.

They continue to line up in the red zone with Gonzo between the hashes, where he can be double-teamed with the vice coverage. Call me crazy, but the fix to this is so obvious that I'm starting to think I must be completely wrong because the team never did this…split Gonzo out wide. If you want that big presence in the middle of the field, then put Toilolo at TE. But do the Falcons every play Toilolo in the red zone? Not really in 2nd half of the season once Coffman was healthier. And it's not like they were playing Coffman either. They just continued to put Harry Douglas and Darius Johnson on the field in red zone, these teeny tiny WRs that can't win in traffic rather than a 6-6 and 6-8 TE.

It's this inability to adjust that really makes me dislike Dirk Koetter with a passion. But also blame Mike Smith. He's the head coach, he's ultimately responsible for the offense that is fielded. So either he is to blame somewhat because he did nothing to try and get Koetter to adjust, or again he didn't realize that he needed to adjust. And given his history, it suggests more the latter, which worries me again about the fundamental issues that plague this team.


Agreed. The implied psychology of the coaching staff is not good. With that said, you do disclaim the idea that you are only seeing what happens on the field. None of us know if Toilolo just couldn't get his assignments down or if Ryan failed to audible to a better formation, but I agree that Atlanta's approach the last few years is far more a cause for your concern than John Clayton's confidence.

And you were/are absolutely correct about the Robiske thing. I remember defending it from a point of needing to have optimism, but, in retrospect, it was about the worst move ATL could have made. It is no surprise that Tony forced ATL to release his rights rather than retire: He doesn't want to be forced to come back to this or depend on Dimitroff trading him.


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 Post subject: Re: whats up with that?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:41 pm 
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samedi wrote:
And if your bassist had a clogged ear and couldn't stay in tune and Bo was actively broadcasting that the s*** dive you were in in Malvern, Arkansas was a s*** dive in Malvern, Arkansas? And that he was pissed at having to play with you because you weren't up to his expectations? There's your metaphor. Still want to learn the slide guitar? I'm guessing 95% would pass on that just to avoid him.

In order to be Tony, you have to have the combination I referenced above; you are right (though you echo me) with asking how many first ballot HoFers there are are out there: ridiculously few. Thus my point about not being able to be Tony, because they aren't there. A better question to ask is how many "Horsefaces" are out there who will come back to their former high schools to hang out with the people who call them "horseface." Because in suggesting that he was wasting his time coming back this year, he called his teammates "horseface": instead of focusing just on her positive attributes as a thespian, you feel the need to call her that. And she is. And it makes it totally understanding why she doesn't want to come back, and probably why she didn't participate in the school much after she saw that she was willing to be more than "horseface."

I walk this line every day in a "college prep" high school English classroom. At no point can I become elitist to the point where I can say that they lack the drive to succeed and have it become my mantra. I can think it; I can know it, but I cannot let that be broadcast or the ship won't move forward, and the ship must move forward.

I'm not saying that no one took what he said about practicing to heart. However, the sub-leaders were injured or off the team, and saying that the WR didn't practice with him is disingenuous on its face. That doesn't make for a persuasive argument to do it.

In one last comparison (sorry, this is how I think): We went to see Tool last night in SF. Danny Carey was ungodly (I'm not sure who's on your list, FG, but he's in my top 5) and I spent the show watching his technique, his positioning of the elements of the kit, his lean to achieve balance and limb independence. At the end of the show, Danny and Adam Jones, the guitarist, came out to the edge of the stage and waved and smiled and bowed and threw drumsticks into the crowd. The bass player stayed for a minute and then went in. The lead singer didn't even look at the crowd and walked off after the last show. My buddy, one of the most experienced concert-goers I know and an audiophile, turned to me and said, "What a dick." No matter how good Danny was, people will often place that psychological rejection over the benefits of the experience. If Danny had pulled that--if he had kicked over the drums, scowled, and flipped off the crowd--I don't think I would be as keen as I am today to drop the level of my snare and toms to see if it gives me a bit more speed and precision.

2 for the road:

-Your opinion is misguided and simplistic; you can make a metaphor, but not a conceit, and I deserve a better class of poster than you to respond to.

-Your opinion really made me think, and--while I still disagree with you--the Bo Diddly experience sounds awesome I'd love to have that chance; I'm glad you made the best of it. Is there a video of you playing out there? Who are your inspirations as a musician? I think that disagreeing with my argument "on its face" doesn't synch with "you are correct" less than 100 words later, but I think I get where you are coming from. I'm glad this discussion popped up: It gives me an opportunity to rethink my opinions (and go practice a bit on the kit).

Which one makes you want to say "f*** off, asshole" and which one sounds a bit more open-minded and appreciative, wanting to develop?


Apologies if I am overly pedantic or didactic in this response. So it is perfectly clear: I often disagree with you, FG, but I absolutely appreciate having your perspective to argue with, laugh with, and enjoy; you are a great facet to the board. Your arguments make me a better thinker and fan. :up:



no worries! My rejection of your opinion 'on it's face'' was not meant as a 'dig', it's just I didn't see it that way..

in response to your first point ( Bo broadcasting, etc) , that metaphor only works if Bo was saying all this stuff at the time. A better one would be to say AFTER our gigs, THEN he came out somewhere and said 'Well, those pick up guys from Atlanta were pretty talented, but they lack the desire and technique to make it to my level, and that only comes with alot of hard practice'..Because that's what TG did. My point was that he could have ( and I dont know, maybe should have?probably not..) said all this at the time, but chose not to. And If Bo said that at the time, I would not have been mad because it would have basically been 'true', and I would have taken ANY advice/lesson from him. And correct me if Im wrong but the takeway that I got from the article was that if they needed him down the road this season, he wouldn't be averse to saying 'no', so I dont quite get where your getting him 'wasting his time coming back this year' BTW: We didnt have cell phone cameras back then, and even the VCR cameras were fairly bulky, so unfortunately, no video. I dont think they would have allowed that anyways. Somewhere in the basement is an old DAT tape from the board, I think, but I dont even have a DAT player anymore :wink:

I think you misunderstood my 'horseface' analogy. I respect SJP. You would have to see a picture of her her freshman year to understand how hideous she was. And then one day I'm watching her in that Vegas movie with N Cage, and she looked fine as hell! I never understood why she was so hated at SCPA, but I guess that is run of the mill for famous people. Never got into the whole Sex/City show, but damn the girl worked HARD for her success, more power to her.. My point about her and TG were that they had some 'talent', but it was thier work ethic and committment to excellence that put them where they are. Who is the bigger talent, SJP or Carmen Electra ( both grads).. Tera, uh I mean Carmen is alot easier on the eyes, so she doesnt have to work as hard a SJP, and she is a lesser talent because of this... Does this make sense?

Look, I am aware of my 'bias'. I met the man and his wife and they watched me perform, and I even got him to play my mexican accordion. So, I know I am treading into dangerous 'fan boy' territory here. But, again what I got from reading that article was that the same WR's that he offered to help were playing grabass and tossing the ball around pregame, and then in the game, they drop the clutch passes: while he is reeling them in. Honestly: wouldn't that piss you off? Especially considering WHY you came back, after they literally BEGGED you? And yet he didnt say a word....

..at the TIME.

So, I dont quite get where your coming from, but you have given me something to think about. The original point of the thread was wondering why all this is coming out NOW? I dont really see it as 'helping' because now he is calling out his old team, in a fashion. The part where at the end of the year he unloads on them and tells them they are lazy and didnt work for it was probably pretty bad, but why even bother to tell that story to ESPN? It's not going to endear you to the team you suggested you would come back to play for ( and is that why he hasn't filed his retirement papewwork yet? Farve disorder?)..

As for my musical inspirations, well, they change all the time. When I was in High School, the idea that one day I would be playing jazz for $$ would have seemed improbable: I was wearing parachute pants and spinning around on cardboard at the time. I was in music theater, so, alot of showtunes...Then I went through some 'phases'. I had my hippie,gothic, and grunge phase, which back then, scowling and kicking over your drums was expected. You didn't 'smile and thank the audience' you skulked off the stage because 'you were real, man...) :lol: My first instrument were the drums, but someone gave me an old Kay upright and I drifted into rockabilly, which dragged me into Americana and Blues. That was my second to last phase ( from about 90-s to 2004) and I was lucky to get to play with a bunch of people who were never really 'famous' like Bo, but had been around awhile: and were alwaqys available to help teach some annoying cracker kids down the street. Here are some of the people who I got to play and tour with, and who taught me alot.

Mr Frank. Too many stories to go into! I played this mans last gig at 93, and he was on FIRE. a couple days later, he died. Mr Frank was different in that he was an athiest and didn't do any gospel somgs, which is pretty damn unusual for a southern blues hero:

http://steel.lcc.gatech.edu/~jransone/mrfrank/index.htm

[imghttp://clatl.com/imager/our-loss-mr-frank-edwards-embodied-the-best-in-blues/b/original/1236362/57a9/vibes_feature-9446.jpeg][/img]

the man who taught me how to play a bad ass harp had only one arm:

Image

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neal_Pattman

There are so many, many more. Cora Mae Bryant. Mama Watkins. and on and on :so:

Im currently going through my second line jazz phase, but I'm starting to feel the old showtune itch, so if you see me in a gown singing ballads anytime soon, you will know that phase is done, too 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: whats up with that?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:59 pm 
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http://mmqb.si.com/2014/03/11/free-agency-live-blog/

Update, 8:40 PM EDT

Falcons sign:

NT Paul Soliai (TheMMQB.com free-agent rank: 28)
OG Jon Asamoah (TheMMQB.com free-agent rank: 69)
DE Tyson Jackson (TheMMQB.com free-agent rank: NR)
Falcons re-sign DT Jonathan Babineaux (TheMMQB.com free-agent rank: 90)
Falcons release TE Tony Gonzalez.

Greg A. Bedard writes

Last week we outlined how this was a crucial offseason and how much work there was to do for the Falcons and general manager Thomas Dimitroff, and they quickly got to work with a plethora of moves on the opening days of free agency.

We’ll get to the signings in a second, but one move that shouldn’t be overlooked is the Falcons’ decision to release Gonzalez. Why is this important? Normally, a retiring player files his retirement paperwork, his contract his wiped from the books and he sits on the reserve/retired list. The team retains that player’s rights. That way if the player decides he wants to play again, the team can either have the player back or trade him to another team. Think of Brett Favre and the Packers. Both sides went through that mess because the Packers didn’t outright release Favre, with the eye on controlling where he landed if he came out of retirement.

With Gonzalez, the Falcons were forced to release him—and take a $1.75 million cap hit—because Gonzalez hadn’t yet filed his retirement paperwork, and he was due a $3 million bonus on the fifth day of the league year. The Falcons had a choice. Either release Gonzalez, take the hit and get on with rebuilding the team, or hold the $3 million in cap space with a possibility of trading Gonzalez for a draft pick should he decide to unretire.The Falcons chose to get busy living. I don’t think it would be a stretch to say that this situation is an indication of some level of acrimony between Gonzalez and the Falcons as a result of the team’s decision not to trade him to a contender down the stretch last season. Gonzalez might think, They didn’t do me any favors last year, why should I do one for them now? And now he completely controls where and when he lands if he decides to return. He could even end up within the NFC South (how about the Saints or Panthers?). That’s exactly the scenario the Packers didn’t want with Favre, who spent a year with the Jets before joining Minnesota.


Tony Gonzalez. (Simon Bruty/SI/The MMQB) It’s largely a no harm/no foul move right now should Gonzalez ride off into the retirement sunset, but this should be filed away for next season, if and when Gonzalez starts to field calls from contenders in October.

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 Post subject: Re: whats up with that?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:07 pm 
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so, instead of trading him at the deadline to KC last year for a 3rd or a 5th, now they eat 1.75 million in cap space, and TG is free to jump in this year with anyone he chooses. Even in the NFC South. Can you imagine him going to the Saints and then helping them?

:clap: WTG, you dumba$$es. :clap:

you just cannot make this stuff up. :roll:

And it seems my 'WTF' radar was working, he was pissed and just didn't say anything at the time. :ninja:

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 Post subject: Re: whats up with that?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:25 am 
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The deal with Tony reminds me a little bit of Chipper's last year where the old tail is wagging the young dog somewhat. And lest it be forgotten, TG was rusty and dropped a few crucial passes himself esp at the beginning of the year as well as giving up a crucial sack with what he admitted was a bad block. I find it a little ironic that he takes others to task for not living up to his practice regimen while agreeing to skip part of camp. This was a bad idea from the outset. Team chemistry was off this year and the above article underlines it. Love Tony's game and his approach to it but look no further than the Braves to see what it does to a team when one guy gets too much bigger than the team. As great a player as chipper was I don't think it was lost on anyone that the nobody that took his spot batted about 50 points better than he did his last year. Hindsight is 20/20. While trading TG at the deadline may have made sense now there is always the then. If--and it is a big if--they had turned the season around...and that does not necessarily mean making the playoffs...it would not have had an insignificant impact on 2014. I understood the argument to trade him but locker rooms are made of flesh and blood and there is plenty that goes on there that we never know about.


And speaking of old dogs, I have a degree in English with a caveat that it is from Auburn University applied. You guys lost me at slide guitar and horse face. Need I say that on my street Tony is one of the young guys. Cyril, come tell me what to think!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: whats up with that?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:09 am 
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Kudos to you Tony Gonzalez, gamed the system so that if you do get that itch in June or October, you are free to come back on your own free volition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPQlXNH36mI

:clap:

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 Post subject: Re: whats up with that?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:14 am 
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Pudge wrote:
Kudos to you Tony Gonzalez, gamed the system so that if you do get that itch in June or October, you are free to come back on your own free volition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPQlXNH36mI

:clap:



If they had traded him to K.C. for a 3rd or 5th like what was reported at the time, I highly doubt he would have pulled this stunt with them. I believe he would have signed thier retirement papers with no issues.

again, more forward-thinking from our brain trust :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: whats up with that?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:19 am 
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fun gus wrote:
Pudge wrote:
Kudos to you Tony Gonzalez, gamed the system so that if you do get that itch in June or October, you are free to come back on your own free volition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPQlXNH36mI

:clap:



If they had traded him to K.C. for a 3rd or 5th like what was reported at the time, I highly doubt he would have pulled this stunt with them. I believe he would have signed thier retirement papers with no issues.

again, more forward-thinking from our brain trust :roll:

But fun gus, if they had traded Gonzo, this team would've probably finished the season 2-14 or 3-13, and the brain trust wouldn't be around to reap the "benefit" of an additional mid-round pick.

8-)

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