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 Post subject: Matthews or Clowney
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:15 pm 
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I think we all can agree the lines are our number 1 priority and yes with FA a lot can happen but if by some weird chance both players drop to us at our pick which line do you address first? Matthews can plug in at LT and I think with the domino effect from that our line is improved. Clowney helps but our d line needs more help I think. As much as I like Clowney if we could get Matthews I think I'd go that route. Of course I want Hardy or a big time DE in FA too but alas that's for a different thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Matthews or Clowney
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:19 pm 
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We won't get either due to where we pick, but alas we have the piece of mind that we beat Buffalo and Washington :doh:

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 Post subject: Re: Matthews or Clowney
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:32 pm 
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That's why I said if they were to drop. I guess I'm wondering if the best OLine and best DLine prospect were availablew which line would you address first?


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 Post subject: Re: Matthews or Clowney
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:38 am 
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I'll take the franchise player at any position at this point, but the preference is defense because that is a much more important factor to winning championships. As you can see, even if he's surrounded by mediocrity, even a player like Von Miller can change a defense.

The "domino effect" that occurs on the OL, I'm not sure it exists. If you draft Matthews or another OT that high, there is always that expectation, but I don't see much historical precedence to suggest that expectation is real (see Browns or Rams OLs this year). What it usually involves is that you've now solidified 1 spot, and you still have to find better players at the other spots. Maybe if you have a decent guy playing beside him (and we do with Blalock), then you've turned one side of your line from a weakness to a strength. But it still won't affect how the other 3 guys play. They could still suck. The right side of our OL is our most glaring weakness, but the left side is by no means a strength. If Matthews changes that, then it makes it easier for schemes/protections as you can use TE and RB to chip on the right side and be relatively confident that you can leave your left side guys on an island (typically NFL teams roll their protections to the left, which means the RG is on an island rather than the LG).

It really boils down to how the Falcons see their current group of OL. If they think Baker/Holmes competition can suffice at LT, then there's no real reason to take a OT in the Top 10 because the value in drafting a RT that high doesn't really exist unless you're grooming him to replace a soon to be gone legend at LT, and his stint on the RT is only going to be for 1-2 yrs max. IMO, if we're drafting an OT that high, he better be a day 1 starter at LT. And you move Baker/Holmes to right side and hope they fill in. If they don't, then you find some midlevel player to replace them (because again, you don't need to spend huge to get a competent RT).

The real issue the Falcons face is the possibility that Holmes/Baker stick at LT and the fact that if Baker plays like he did in 2012, and Holmes plays like he did for parts of 2013, you have a competent LT. Not a good one, and a guy that will struggle against top competition, but he's not going to be the reason you don't win it all. It's like you're starting the equivalent of Stephen Nicholas there, you know you can do better, but you can live it with for at least the next 2-3 years that they're under contract for. And you'll worry about the upgrade 2-3 years from now when their contracts are up.

But the other possibility is that they suck again. Holmes is just J'Marcus Webb v2.0 and Baker is the s***ty version of Baker that we've seen more often than not over the past 6 years.

So essentially you're in a low reward/high risk scenario, and thus if you're taking an OT, then he better be a rock-solid Jake Long, Joe Thomas, Ryan Clady-esque guy that you feel like is a can't miss guy. If you don't feel like that guy is available in the draft, then there's no point taking him that high. Maybe you trade back 10-15 spots and find an Anthony Castonzo/Riley Reiff/Nate Solder type that you're pegging more to become a serviceable to good starter.

So the point is that if you're going to take an OT that high you need to really believe he's Jake Long/Trent Williams/Matt Kalil i.e. the type of guy that is going to be a Top 10 caliber LT for a long time.

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 Post subject: Re: Matthews or Clowney
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:40 am 
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Good points Pudge about taking a tackle with the 1st pick. I'm also looking at free agency and see a few tackles that could be signed thus the Falcs could go defense with their 1st pick. We have spent so much on the offensive side of the ball and have little to show for it in way of quality off linemen. I'd rather sign a few free agents on the off line and use the draft for defense. The Falcons have no particular defneder the other team worries about to create havoc. Whether its Clowney or Barr I'd much rather have a potential star player on defense. It's possible Barr could gain 10 pounds and play defensive end. Having Nolan sign an extension just think about how he could use Barr on defense.

What if the Falcs sign Greg Hardy and draft Barr.It would be a decent start to rebuilding with young players. I don't want to trade up giving up our 2nd rounder. I've looked at the free agent crop at guard and there may be some serviceable players but no star potential players. I'd like to keep our 2nd rounder and draft a guard which a decent one should be available. Also consider if we go the free agent route on the off line. The line should jell faster than having alot of drafted players in their 1st year ( opposite of what I just said drafting guard in the 2nd). Lets face it both lines need addressed and by using free agency and the draft will be able to solve some problems but no all of them. It's going to take 2 years to get a decent line together IF TD does the right thing. What we've been seeing though is signing one big free agent and doing nothing else. It's very upsetting seeing good players acquired by other teams yet TD feels we have adequate players already.

When you have a team with no defenders the scare the opponent a off line that can't block, and many other holes how in the world can TD be satisfied with the talent on this team. I hope this year opened his eyes because I'm sick of having weak def/off lines and not enough talented players. If it doesn't change I think both TD and Smitty will be gone next year and winning 5 out of 6 years won't save them. Get the job done fellas or Blank will find someone else to do the job.

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 Post subject: Re: Matthews or Clowney
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:47 pm 
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Quote:
I'll take the franchise player at any position at this point


There is no such thing. Any pick is a risk. Clowney especially IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: Matthews or Clowney
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:06 pm 
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AngryJohnny51 wrote:
Quote:
I'll take the franchise player at any position at this point


There is no such thing. Any pick is a risk. Clowney especially IMO.

You misunderstand my meaning. I don't mean a "can't miss" prospect, which you're right doesn't exist. But there is the existence of a franchise player. What else would you call Matt Ryan, Julio Jones, John Abraham, etc.?

And the Falcons issue is overall talent. While most will focus on the OL and DL, and rightly so, the reality is that if the Falcons were to trade back into the middle/late portion of the round and get a "franchise" TE, S, (e.g. Jimmy Graham, Earl Thomas), then I'll be just as happy as I would be with a bookend LT or top DE or DT.

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