Sooo... Offensive Line?

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Sooo... Offensive Line?

Postby dirtybirdnw » Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:39 pm

I'm officially on the "fix the O-line" wagon watching today's game. We just invested a ridiculous amount of money into Matt Ryan and the guy can't drop back more the 3 steps before getting blown up.
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Re: Sooo... Offensive Line?

Postby RobertAP » Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:41 pm

NINE sacks in one game is incredible. I've never seen anything like it before.

That said, Ryan held the ball longer than he normally does. I don't know if the coverage was that great, or Ryan was just trying to prove a point... I don't know.

I do know that there are a lot of people to blame for our line sucking. The line itself shouldn't be the focus of our frustration. The guys who, "built," that line are culpable as well.

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Re: Sooo... Offensive Line?

Postby John O » Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:55 pm

This OL sucked from Day 1 of this season thanks to TD. Sure Clabo didn't have the greatest year in 2012 but he played far better than most of the starters this year. McClure was good for another year or two and he was better than anybody else they tried at Center. Why didn't they bring him back? 76 is a joke and a danger to Ryan on every snap. He's been out of shape the whole season. Does he even know where the gym is and what a workour bench looks like? I've been on the OL since Day 1 and know you can't win by being cheap on the big guys up front. I'm tired of seeing a red jersey being spun to the ground by a opposition DL player. Forget Baker, he's damaged goods and has been since he signed. Forget the rest and start over from Free Agency and get some Hogs to protect the future. I'm tired of being emarresed by TD's poor decisions.
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Re: Sooo... Offensive Line?

Postby DaveWaz » Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:02 pm

I think we have the worst line in the league, not only are we terrible at pass blocking, we also suck at run blocking too.
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Re: Sooo... Offensive Line?

Postby Pudge » Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:25 pm

From my first look, some of the Falcons sacks came due to Ryan holding onto the ball a beat longer because the Falcons were actually sending their receivers down the field.

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Re: Sooo... Offensive Line?

Postby Cyril » Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:02 pm

I didn't need to see anything but the game.... It shows Ryan doesn't have the time to go deep
except maybe once a game.... Thank goodness this season is over so we can fix some things.
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Re: Sooo... Offensive Line?

Postby Spanky Ham » Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:08 pm

So DB and Cyril, what is your solution? Should the Falcons bring in high priced free agents and burn a first and second round draft choice on the OL? How well has TD done with his free agents? Edwards, Osi, Dunta, Krusty the Klown. How about drafting? Baker was a #1 and Konz was #2. TD has done well in the top ten with Ryan and Julio, so maybe he can land then next Joe Thomas.

While I think the OL is a weak link, I would still take the next JJ Watt over the next Joe Thomas any day.

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Re: Sooo... Offensive Line?

Postby samedi » Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:33 am

Neither, but hey:

They need to change the way that they evaluate or train linemen; otherwise, it doesn't seem to matter what resources they use. Since they haven't gone with a real FA try at OL, I'd like a reasonably reliable guard if one's available and a flier at a serviceable right tackle, unless the numbers on cutting Baker this year as opposed to next are just that bad.

As Pudge has pointed out a few times, ATL has not gotten good value for their dollar using draft choices on the OL, so burning the first rounder (or 2nd) on another OL seems silly. However, and contrary to the opinion that conservative playcalling caused a lot of the O's ineptness, the offensive line is f**** terrible. God awful. An abomination. Hideous. So, they need to be replaced in some form. While I still do see the value in drafting the best player available, especially if he happens to be an OL, if they don't change their evaluation philosophy they may as well look elsewhere with high draft choice.

I'd like to look up this winter and see both Reynolds and Baker cut. This means that at least two more guys come from somewhere, and possibly three if you can walk away from Johnson. Konz has a year to improve in practice, and hopefully replaces Hawley for the backup interior line position; having him play like the first center taken in the draft seems like asking a bit too much at this time.

That leaves us with the two worst players on the line last night, Holmes and Schrader. Leaving Sch alone against CJ probably isn't fully indicative of how he'll play next year, and Holmes--at some point--may actually realize that working out will help.

In essence: Baker, Reynolds, and Johnson are known, multi-year failures. Replace them, change the way Konz and Holmes are trained, and try to build up some strength or skill in the line.


This is also a real opportunity to shape a new defense as well.

The defense has the potential to be the more enjoyable build: I'd love to see Barr picked up with their first-round choice and paired with a later-round space-eater. If you want to go with the existing 3 DT rotation as the 3, you've got the four with Barr, Biermann, Spoon, Worrilow; Bartu and Massoquai are the main backups. Or, you can jettison the 3 (all in contract years) and start fresh with Robertson (meh), Matthews (meh) and Goodman+10lbs at the DE and pick up two guys to rotate at DT. The latter is pretty frightening, but it is cheap, and the 3 really just need to occupy space, not blow through their guys: leg presses and hand strengthening for all!

Osi's gone, Samuel's gone, DeCoud is gone (or one more year?) Of that, Barr replaces the (laughable) Osi contributions, a 3rd-4th cornerback is needed, and a fairly good center-fielder is important.

So, what I'd love to see:
FA: 1-2 decent-good lower-price OL, S, 4th CB, TE
Draft: Barr, OL, NT, S, WR with speed, 2 OL/DL fliers.

Atlanta cannot afford to enter "Win one for Roddy" mode, nor continue it's method of evaluating linemen.

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Re: Sooo... Offensive Line?

Postby The Mattural » Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:41 pm

What is it with the front office and their O-linemen evaluations? The best lineman were inherited by the current regime and all the lineman added since TD and company took over have ranged from mediocre to below average. I would really like to see them address the O-line in FA seeing that they have missed on every lineman that they have drafted.
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Re: Sooo... Offensive Line?

Postby dirtybirdnw » Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:50 pm

Spanky Ham wrote:So DB and Cyril, what is your solution? Should the Falcons bring in high priced free agents and burn a first and second round draft choice on the OL? How well has TD done with his free agents? Edwards, Osi, Dunta, Krusty the Klown. How about drafting? Baker was a #1 and Konz was #2. TD has done well in the top ten with Ryan and Julio, so maybe he can land then next Joe Thomas.

While I think the OL is a weak link, I would still take the next JJ Watt over the next Joe Thomas any day.


I think what your basically saying is that we should dump Dimitroff with the statement above? No?

Baker was a reach when he was drafted there is no denying that. That being said if the guy would stay healthy he is an OK tackle. But I suspect he will never be healthy so my thinking at this point is to eat the cap hit and dump him.

At this point the offensive line needs decidedly more help than the defensive line if we want to keep our #1 weapon upright and that is Matt Ryan.

If the team doesn't dump Baker on principal because they just gave him a mega-extension so be it. Either move him to RT or make him the top backup at tackle. If Clowney & Matthews are gone by the Falcon's #6 pick (or they elect not to move up) I'd trade down into the middle/late 1st round add some extra picks and draft someone that could come in and start at LT right away.

After that I'd go into free agency trolling for a solid veteran OG to plug the hole at RG and go into the season with that.

I'm not sure you completely give up on Konz at center just yet and Hawley is serviceable for now.

You don't need to complete throw everything out on the Falcon's offensive line but we at least need a competent starting left tackle. I'd rather have Holmes be a backup and not a starter. He can develop over time.
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Re: Sooo... Offensive Line?

Postby John O » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:56 pm

Pudge wrote:From my first look, some of the Falcons sacks came due to Ryan holding onto the ball a beat longer because the Falcons were actually sending their receivers down the field.


The fact the QB has to throw early is indicitive of a Bad OL.
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Re: Sooo... Offensive Line?

Postby Pudge » Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:05 am

John O wrote:
Pudge wrote:From my first look, some of the Falcons sacks came due to Ryan holding onto the ball a beat longer because the Falcons were actually sending their receivers down the field.


The fact the QB has to throw early is indicitive of a Bad OL.

Again, if you guys think my argument is "our OL isn't bad" then you guys either haven't been paying attention or need to learn to read gooder.
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Re: Sooo... Offensive Line?

Postby Cyril » Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:44 pm

OF COURSE IT WAS HORRIBLE jOHN O' , we could all see what happened with our running game and terrible pass blocking on long passing.... 9 sacks and to think some think its not the line????
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Re: Sooo... Offensive Line?

Postby jagstang76 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:49 am

samedi wrote:Neither, but hey:

They need to change the way that they evaluate or train linemen; otherwise, it doesn't seem to matter what resources they use. Since they haven't gone with a real FA try at OL, I'd like a reasonably reliable guard if one's available and a flier at a serviceable right tackle, unless the numbers on cutting Baker this year as opposed to next are just that bad.

As Pudge has pointed out a few times, ATL has not gotten good value for their dollar using draft choices on the OL, so burning the first rounder (or 2nd) on another OL seems silly. However, and contrary to the opinion that conservative playcalling caused a lot of the O's ineptness, the offensive line is f**** terrible. God awful. An abomination. Hideous. So, they need to be replaced in some form. While I still do see the value in drafting the best player available, especially if he happens to be an OL, if they don't change their evaluation philosophy they may as well look elsewhere with high draft choice.

I'd like to look up this winter and see both Reynolds and Baker cut. This means that at least two more guys come from somewhere, and possibly three if you can walk away from Johnson. Konz has a year to improve in practice, and hopefully replaces Hawley for the backup interior line position; having him play like the first center taken in the draft seems like asking a bit too much at this time.

That leaves us with the two worst players on the line last night, Holmes and Schrader. Leaving Sch alone against CJ probably isn't fully indicative of how he'll play next year, and Holmes--at some point--may actually realize that working out will help.

In essence: Baker, Reynolds, and Johnson are known, multi-year failures. Replace them, change the way Konz and Holmes are trained, and try to build up some strength or skill in the line.


This is also a real opportunity to shape a new defense as well.

The defense has the potential to be the more enjoyable build: I'd love to see Barr picked up with their first-round choice and paired with a later-round space-eater. If you want to go with the existing 3 DT rotation as the 3, you've got the four with Barr, Biermann, Spoon, Worrilow; Bartu and Massoquai are the main backups. Or, you can jettison the 3 (all in contract years) and start fresh with Robertson (meh), Matthews (meh) and Goodman+10lbs at the DE and pick up two guys to rotate at DT. The latter is pretty frightening, but it is cheap, and the 3 really just need to occupy space, not blow through their guys: leg presses and hand strengthening for all!

Osi's gone, Samuel's gone, DeCoud is gone (or one more year?) Of that, Barr replaces the (laughable) Osi contributions, a 3rd-4th cornerback is needed, and a fairly good center-fielder is important.

So, what I'd love to see:
FA: 1-2 decent-good lower-price OL, S, 4th CB, TE
Draft: Barr, OL, NT, S, WR with speed, 2 OL/DL fliers.

Atlanta cannot afford to enter "Win one for Roddy" mode, nor continue it's method of evaluating linemen.

I definitely agree with you on pretty much everything! I say we need to, over the next couple years, completely overhaul the OL. I think they're off to a good start by firing the OL coach. They need to go and get one who can come in with vision for the OL and effect both how we eval/draft/sign OLs and how they play. Perhaps a good coach at that position could bring more out of our younger players like Konz and Holmes. I want to see us go back to the original idea of a power OL, one that can hold up to the initial pass rush and give Ryan at least a chance. Also, a OL that can push for those short 1st downs and not get blasted off the line every time. They don't need to be spectacular, just have some level of consistency.

At the same time, we cannot ignore our DL. I think our pass defense would be pretty good if we could get some pass rush. I've wanted to see our team move to a 3-4 for a while, but we obviously don't have the personnel for it at the moment. However, we have FAs and options to make changes that would set us up to make that switch. I think that might be why they went ahead and let go the DL coach. Nolan (with his new extension) is ready to make the switch, and you need a DL coach who focuses on that alignment. Drafting Barr would be ideal for this transition, and we need to find a few NTs. I think we found a couple of capable LBs this year in Worrilow and Bartu, and we will get Beirmann and Spoon back healthy. Kroy and Barr on the outside and Spoon and Worrilow in the middle would be a solid start. We just need to get a few beasts for the front 3.

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Re: Sooo... Offensive Line?

Postby AngryJohnny51 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:25 am

Maybe Ryan did sidestep pressure on occasion, but he was manhandled for most of the season. According to ESPN Stats & Information, Ryan led the league with 204 dropbacks while pressured -- sacked, forced to scramble, hit while throwing, or put under duress – with the next closest quarterback being Seattle’s Russell Wilson with 184. The league average was 122.

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Re: Sooo... Offensive Line?

Postby starley657 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:11 pm

Falcons were denied chance to speak to Vikings offensive line coach.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -davidson/

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Re: Sooo... Offensive Line?

Postby The Mattural » Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:00 pm

starley657 wrote:Falcons were denied chance to speak to Vikings offensive line coach.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -davidson/


What a dick move seeing that he is probably going to get canned when the new HC is hired. I know the Falcons would like to have their entire coaching staff filled before they go down to Mobile for the Senior Bowl.
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Re: Sooo... Offensive Line?

Postby Cyril » Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:20 am

I'd like more draft picks on defense. Offensiveness vets are easier to plug in. We 've done it well over the years just like our picking good linemen as a franchise; has been terrible.
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Re: Sooo... Offensive Line?

Postby ridethemattrain » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:53 pm

Assuming he does get the Penn State gig, should they pursue Munchak as an o-line coach?
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