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 Post subject: If not Clowney - Then Who?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:57 pm 
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As Atlanta appears to be headed toward the 5th overall pick the question is becoming less about Clowney and more about about who should Atlanta draft instead?

I'm more or less falling into Pudge's camp of addressing defense first since it seems to be our biggest deficiency. But on the other side of the coin if you don't do something with the offensive line you risk potentially seeing Ryan slain on the field or more futile rushing attempts.

My top options after Clowney would be OT Jake Matthews, DL, Louis Nix, LB C.J. Mosley, OLB/DE Anthony Barr, OT Cyrus Kouandjio.

Not sure that Nix or Barr really fit Atlanta but with our hybrid scheme it could work.

If Austin Seferian-Jenkins comes out I'd love to nab him to replace Tony G but I suspect he'll return to UW for one more year.

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 Post subject: Re: If not Clowney - Then Who?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:41 pm 
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IF Clowney is gone by the time we pick hopefully we trade down. Matthews is good but is he Joe Thomas? Barr reminds me too much of Aaron Maybin, but if we trade down I would love a pick like Khalil Mack I think he can be the next Von Miller. In addition to being a playmaker he gives us some insurance incase Spoon tries to break the bank.

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Last edited by The Mattural on Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: If not Clowney - Then Who?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:02 am 
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I'D risk our 1 and a trade to get Clowney. I don't know who we can afford to trade who could make it worth it. Dang we didn't deserve that win Sunday!!

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 Post subject: Re: If not Clowney - Then Who?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:22 am 
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Cyril wrote:
I'D risk our 1 and a trade to get Clowney. I don't know who we can afford to trade who could make it worth it. Dang we didn't deserve that win Sunday!!

We didn't deserve to win against the Bills either, which makes those wins that much less appealing to see on our record.

There's still a chance Clowney falls to us though. With clouds of doubt surrounding him due to his lack of productivity this season, commitment to the game, etc. he can fall a draft pick or two. With the way the draft order is right now, I can see it going like this...

1. Houston - QB Bridgewater
2. St. Louis - OT Jake Matthews
3. Oakland - ??? ... The Raiders seem to always screw up, so they could go with a LB or even a QB
4. Jacksonville - OLB Anthony Barr or QB
5. Atlanta - DE JaDeveon Clowney

It'll take some luck and questionable GM decision making, but it could still happen.

If it comes our turn to pick and Clowney isn't on the board, I would like for us to trade down and aim to pick up a guy like Khalil Mack. I don't think Barr is the real deal and would greatly struggle to be an every down defensive end, especially in the 4-3. I wouldn't mind targeting one of the 2 Notre Dame D-linemen either (Nix or Tuitt). I think the best case scenario would be to trade down far enough where we could pick up a late 1st or early 2nd to pick up one of the players previously in the first round and grabbing an OL like Cyril Richardson later or even a TE like Eric Ebron.


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 Post subject: Re: If not Clowney - Then Who?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:12 pm 
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Worth noting Barr is a captain and a senior and considered one the high character guys in this class. Clowney is a sophomore, not a captain and considered a character risk. What does that mean? Nothing, because it's December. We'll see if those things affect their respective draft stocks come February after the Combine.

I have the feeling a number of teams at the top, particularly STL and OAK (assuming they don't want a QB which is not a good assumption) will want to trade back because they don't have any pressing needs that merit a Top 5 pick or they want to add more talent to their roster (remember OAK traded back this year from 3 to 12 IIRC).

Could Falcons be in same boat? It's still very very early but I would wager the most money (and it wouldn't be much) that Clowney, Barr, and Matthews are the early front runners.

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 Post subject: Re: If not Clowney - Then Who?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:09 am 
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I still think that if Clowney is there, he's our pick. If not, then trading back would be a solid move. We could come away with two first rounders by trading back, combined with a top 5 pick in the second round, we could have 3 picks in the top 40. That would be quite a bit of rebuilding in one year.

Regarding Barr, I just can't see him being successful as a 4-3 DE, and I can't see us using a high pick on a 4-3 OLB when we need OL and DL help. That said, we could always switch to a 3-4... Biermann and Barr would be a nice pair of 3-4 OLBs. Worrilow and Spoon could be the ILB's. Osi would be the odd-man out, but I consider Osi a failed acquisition anyway. (Jackson as well)


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 Post subject: Re: If not Clowney - Then Who?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:51 am 
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I'd like to mention that Greg Hardy will be a UDFA this coming offseason, right off the bat.. it could change our priorities if we land him.

Also, I'm willing to bet we will land a top 4 pick, even up to #3.

Here are the matchups in the following weeks of the Browns, Jags, & Raiders:
Browns @ Jets
Raiders @ Chargers
Titans @ Jaguars
Browns @ Steelers
Jaguars @ Colts
Broncos @ Raiders

Looking at those matchups, and the fact that the chances that we beat either the 49ers & the Panthers, I see us ending up at #4. The Jaguars are on a roll, (3-2 in the last 5) and the Browns I think will beat the Jets this weekend. The Raiders.. doubt they win either of their games, but if we cross our fingers, who knows?

#4 could be a dreampick, with teams fighting over the right for a QB and us dropping only a couple spots and still getting a top player.

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 Post subject: Re: If not Clowney - Then Who?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:01 pm 
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RobertAP wrote:
Regarding Barr, I just can't see him being successful as a 4-3 DE, and I can't see us using a high pick on a 4-3 OLB when we need OL and DL help. That said, we could always switch to a 3-4... Biermann and Barr would be a nice pair of 3-4 OLBs. Worrilow and Spoon could be the ILB's. Osi would be the odd-man out, but I consider Osi a failed acquisition anyway. (Jackson as well)


I generally agree, but, because of the odd-nature of the Falcon defense and the fact that they like to run all sorts of odd looks Barr could work for Atlanta. I think Barr would be fine as a 4-3 OLB but the jury would be out on him be a 4-3 DE.

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 Post subject: Re: If not Clowney - Then Who?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:16 pm 
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Looks like Clowney just got his 2nd speeding ticket last night. I'm liking this guy less and less, especially after his lackluster season this year.

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 Post subject: Re: If not Clowney - Then Who?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:31 pm 
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Yep, because if you go 84 mph on the highway, it's an indicator that you are incapable of performing your job in the NFL, or really any job for that matter.

Yes, I know they are dumb mistakes for a person with so much scrutiny on him. But he's immature. He's not even 21 years old. These are signs of immaturity, not a guy that is a bad person. I need to see a lot more before I start to write off Clowney.

Frankly, what is difference between Clowney and Roddy White, who was showing a lot of immaturity at age 29 and 30?

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 Post subject: Re: If not Clowney - Then Who?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:42 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
Yep, because if you go 84 mph on the highway, it's an indicator that you are incapable of performing your job in the NFL, or really any job for that matter.

Yes, I know they are dumb mistakes for a person with so much scrutiny on him. But he's immature. He's not even 21 years old. These are signs of immaturity, not a guy that is a bad person. I need to see a lot more before I start to write off Clowney.

Frankly, what is difference between Clowney and Roddy White, who was showing a lot of immaturity at age 29 and 30?

Top 5 pick versus Top 20 pick. And Roddy nearly immatured himself out of the league by his own admission. But I agree the speeding tickets aren't a big deal. The lack of production is though.

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 Post subject: Re: If not Clowney - Then Who?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:55 pm 
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So if Roddy had been the 17th overall pick instead of the 27th, then his lack of maturity issues would have been a major issue? Or the 7th overall? Where do you draw the line where immaturity is a major obstacle? Pick 7? Pick 14? Pick 21?

My point is that Roddy White was not just immature during the years where he wasn't very good (2005 and 2006), but he has consistently shown maturity issues in the years since then. It's really only been in 2012 and 2013 where you could probably say that the concerns over Roddy's maturity have abated to the point that they are non-existent. But there were numerous instances in 2010 and 2011 where ROddy's immaturity got in the way.

Yet nobody here bats an eye over that. Why? Because Roddy balls on the field. The same could potentially said about Clowney.

As you say, the lack of production on the field is more of a concern. You just gotta figure out if the guy is going to ball on the field. The immaturity can be managed. What cannot be is if the guy can't get pressure on opposing QBs.

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 Post subject: Re: If not Clowney - Then Who?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:29 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
So if Roddy had been the 17th overall pick instead of the 27th, then his lack of maturity issues would have been a major issue? Or the 7th overall? Where do you draw the line where immaturity is a major obstacle? Pick 7? Pick 14? Pick 21?

My point is that Roddy White was not just immature during the years where he wasn't very good (2005 and 2006), but he has consistently shown maturity issues in the years since then. It's really only been in 2012 and 2013 where you could probably say that the concerns over Roddy's maturity have abated to the point that they are non-existent. But there were numerous instances in 2010 and 2011 where ROddy's immaturity got in the way.

Yet nobody here bats an eye over that. Why? Because Roddy balls on the field. The same could potentially said about Clowney.

As you say, the lack of production on the field is more of a concern. You just gotta figure out if the guy is going to ball on the field. The immaturity can be managed. What cannot be is if the guy can't get pressure on opposing QBs.

Don't get on the debate team, Pudge. I said the dif in the two was their draft slotting. A number 5 pick is going to cost you a good bit more than a number 17. Just ask TD what he gave to get JJ. Is it a big difference? Not incredibly. The difference in 5 and 17 is 12 and whatever that might denote. AS to Roddy's maturity, I think you are one of the ones who said it wasn't an issue in the last few years when other people thought his tweeting, etc., was counter productive. I would still argue that creating opposing team bulletin material and getting personal foul calls are counter productive and if, as you say, RW didn't ball he'd be out of here. But, frankly, that would probably be the case even if he was an angel. Clowney's speeding tix may be a symptom of a problem or they may just be two tix a guy who drives too fast too often got. We'll know in a few years.

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 Post subject: Re: If not Clowney - Then Who?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:04 pm 
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Clowney's speeding doesn't bother me at all. Now I get speeding tickets all the time for going 50s in a 40 but I think the speed limit is too conservative,

Clowney I bet has been pulled over 5-7 times for speeding and talked himself out of them. It wasn't until the cop got more publicity for giving him the tickets that they seem to have started coming.

Going 140 is over the line; but when a guy is 20 the line isn't but about ten feet. His speeding doesn't bother me at all, and I'm not that worried about this year; few can beat double teams all the time. I just don't expect an impact player at 21, but he's worth developing!!

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