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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:22 pm 
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Cyril wrote:
YES great point AG51 --- OUR O-LINE WHICH IS AS GOOD AS SUPPOSEDLY LAST YEAR, IS RUNNING FOR 15 YARDS LESS A GAME.... THAT MUST NOT MEAN ANYTHING!!

:roll:

Not sure where you're getting your numbers. We're averaging 8 less yards per game from last year (79.3 in 2013 vs. 87.3 in 2012). And that has more to do with running the ball less (20.1 in 2013 vs. 23.6 in 2012) because the team gets behind earlier in games. The Falcons score margin at halftime a year ago was +62. Their score margin this year at halftime is -25.

Keep trying guys...

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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:43 pm 
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Well lets say your numbers are right; why is their such a consistent decline??

Your not even trying; your just saying something against what everyone else knows??
That's the way Kings like it, but your not a king??

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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:44 pm 
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Your pictures suck!! Well it probably plays well with the teenagers.

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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:20 pm 
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Cyril wrote:
Your pictures suck!! Well it probably plays well with the teenagers.

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Cyril wrote:
Well lets say your numbers are right; why is their such a consistent decline??

"Let's say"? :rofl:

That statement alone confirms everything I'm talking about in which you are misconstruing facts in order to fit your worldview. My numbers aren't wrong. The Falcons running game is basically 3 carries for 9 yards worse this year than it was in 2012. Insignificant. If you say otherwise, then you are... well I won't say what you are because I'm trying to be as genial as I can be, but it's like talking to a brick wall.

Cyril wrote:
your just saying something against what everyone else knows??

Just like everyone once knew that the sun revolved around the Earth, the world was flat, etc. Until good people figured out what we know isn't true. And you know what, we'll know more next year than what we did this year, and the year after that and after that.

But again, you guys keep trying to fit everything into your preconceived worldview. The Falcons OL stinks and is the primary cause of the team's multitude of problems, and that's that. It's simple right. Anybody that rejects that obvious premise is a fool and must just be arguing for the sake of arguing because there's no way a sane man can believe anything otherwise.

But I'll continue to look at the evidence and then make judgments based off that, both statistically and watching film. The evidence is clearly there, all you have to do is open your eyes and mind to the notion that your previously held belief might be wrong (as I have in my previously held belief that the Falcons coaches were very good at their jobs).

Don't stop believing!

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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:23 pm 
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So, in your world view it is play calling and team philosophy? Not a team that can't run (they couldn't run last year), can't stop the run (49ers ran over our D like they were the Auburn Tigers and stuck a fork in us yesterday in SF) and cannot stretch the field because--generally speaking--the OL cannot hold point and WRs don't have speed to get deep? The flat world view is that it is all because of one thing when in reality--as with almost all failures in sport or life--it is a collection of things. Lies, damn lies and statistics....freakonomics. Pudge, you are no more right than anyone else. What's the solution? Fire Smitty and all is well?

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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:00 am 
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Quote:
The Falcons score margin at halftime a year ago was +62. Their score margin this year at halftime is -25.


Those are the numbers I was talking about. Gruden said "You almost can't win in this league with 7 rookies starting and he's right. That's what my " world view had been the whole time. It
just turned out that the rookies on defense did better than the rookies on offense.

Did you see the game last night? I would have thought you'd been happier with the coaching??

Merry Christmas, Pudge!!

I'll take off for Christmas for I don't want to be arguing on Christmas.

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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 4:55 am 
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Cyril wrote:
Gruden said "You almost can't win in this league with 7 rookies starting and he's right.

Meanwhile the Patriots have been starting 5-6 rookies every game for the past month. And they just beat Baltimore, a potential playoff team on the road by 34 points with 5 rookie starters. Am I to believe there is some magic threshold around plus/minus 6 rookies that explains the Patriots play and the Falcons play?

Look at the Patriots they've had significant injuries to Gronkowski, Amendola, Vollmer, Wilfork, Mayo, Tommy Kelly, Talib, etc. yet players/rookies like Sealver Silogi, Joe Vellano, Chris Jones, Michael Buchanan, Jamie Collins, Logan Ryan, Duron Harmon, Josh Bouce, Josh Kline, Aaron Dobson, and Kenbrell Thompkins have stepped in with varying results, and yet the Patriots always seem to keep their head above water.
backnblack wrote:
So, in your world view it is play calling and team philosophy? Not a team that can't run (they couldn't run last year), can't stop the run (49ers ran over our D like they were the Auburn Tigers and stuck a fork in us yesterday in SF) and cannot stretch the field because--generally speaking--the OL cannot hold point and WRs don't have speed to get deep? The flat world view is that it is all because of one thing when in reality--as with almost all failures in sport or life--it is a collection of things. Lies, damn lies and statistics....freakonomics. Pudge, you are no more right than anyone else.

In the past I used to say its unfair to compare Smitty to Belichick because he wasn't as good and its like the same unfair comparison of Ryan/Brees. But now I think its fair. No, I don't think Smitty should be expected to have this Falcon team 11-4 and in the drivers seat for a 1 or 2 seed. But why can't this Falcon team be half as good? Why are the Pats Top 5 while Falcons are Bottom 5? If Smitty is good and in same area code as Belichick, then shouldn't we be middle of the pack?

Thats the issue, nobody can explain to me why this team has looked like one of the worst teams in the NFL and how that isn't a reflection on the coaching.

But the response is always the injuries. But then other teams like the Pats among others have been worse off in terms of injuries and hardly miss a beat.

Then it's too many rookies. Again like there aren't other teams calling on a half dozen rookies and not getting by.

Then its the "terrible" OL. Well the OL isn't terrible. Thats what I keep arguing. Look at these stats and explain to me why/how our OL is terrible:

http://wp.advancednflstats.com/teamOL.php

But when you can't, it's some response like "the stats don't matter, I know a bad OL when I see it." And my response is clearly you don't because you'd recognize that this year's OL and last year's aren't that different so the idea that it's impossible to win with is BS. It'd also be ignoring the half-dozen or more teams with weaker OLs that are doing better.

Then it's a combination of all 3 and other factors that make it impossible to win. OK fine, but you're still missing the point. It's not the winning/losing that concerns me. It's how we win and how we lose that is my issue. If we were a well-coached team, then every game would be like last night's or the games in the first 5 weeks where a loss came because 1 or 2 plays didn't break our way. Not the blowouts we suffered vs. Arizona, TB, Seattle, where we might as well not even shown up. Or the wins like we had vs. Wash, where we are +5 turnovers but still get outplayed at home by a backup QB.

backnblack wrote:
What's the solution? Fire Smitty and all is well?

And don't try and pigeon hole me. There hasn't been a single instance where I've said we should fire Mike Smith. What I have said is that I believe this team may have peaked under Smitty and maybe the only way to combat the complacency this organization is mired in is by cleaning house in order to "shock the system."

Should the falcons clean house? I don't know. Maybe. I need to see this team start to recognize the real primary problems, which isn't the OL play but the conservative nature of the offense and poor defensive play. Those 2 issues are the primary reasons why this team isn't and hasn't been a real championships caliber contender.

The frustration with this season stems from the realization that while a couple of good draft picks could solve a lot of their defensive issues, it will likely take a dramatic sea change to solve the offensive issues. If you think the Falcons offensive woes stem from a bad OL, then you are deluding yourself. It's a philosophical issue, and IMO if that philosophy didn't change this year, then it's likely it never will.

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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:42 pm 
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Circumstances alter cases, Pudge. Last year's OL may have been--according to you--as good as this year's OL but last year's OL had the benefit of the 3 headed beast playing in pretty much every game at full strength. This year's team did not. the 3 headed beast is our offensive philosophy and one you pined for back when they were playing smash mouth with the Burner. so, now we have become the pass first O and have turned the game over to Ryan to win or lose as you suggested a couple years back. Well, without a real run game and the 3 headed beast Matt cannot get it done. He is not A. Rodgers or Drew Brees or T. Brady who seem to be able to elevate the play of those around him. Give him the tools to win and he will manage you a win. And the tools, seemingly, are a 3 headed beast and a decent run game. If you could have added a good defense to this we would probably have been in the SB last year.

As to coaching comparisons, well, it isn't unfair to compare coaches. They all have the same number of players and same amount of money to buy them. One big dif in Belichick and Smitty is the former has Brady and we have Ryan. It is not the lone difference but it is a big one. And unless you think a leopard (do jaguars have spots?) can change his spots then the solution is to s*** can Smith. They may well have topped out with him. It sure seemed like they had tuned him out at a point this year but the last few games have been pretty spirited for a team going nowhere though I think the WASH game was a pretty reprehensible example of professional football.

I just don't see how you can watch either of our lines and not see how glaring a deficiency they are "cute stats" be damned. A couple years back you educated me that the year of the power run game was over and along with it the feature back but, you know what, the more things change the more they stay the same. When the 49ers came out after the half they ran it down our throats and until a team can do that and stop that they are in trouble.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFEUJuP7C2g#t=220
You just don't replace this off of the NFL scrap heap.

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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:12 am 
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I've explained it to you about 3 times in depth. It doesn't fit you switching mid season to it all being the Coaches; so no you don't want to believe it.....Ryan is not even close to Brady. Your specific question to why the Falcons can't keep up with the Pats is answered.!!

We've seen Brady under bad conditions before but this is the first time for Ryan. Ryan doesn't like throwing the longer passes, and that's obvious.

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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:46 am 
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Quote:
Not sure where you're getting your numbers.


Comparing the first five games of last year to this year.


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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:25 pm 
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Cyril wrote:
Ryan doesn't like throwing the longer passes, and that's obvious.

I seem to remember, in Ryan's Pro Bowl appearance, him saying that he loves to air it out for people who can catch it, and that he'd love to have Larry Fitzgerald on his team. We went out and got Julio Jones for him.

Pudge is right about the lack of deep routes, and I really doubt that's on Ryan.


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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:15 pm 
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The almost conspiracy minded compulsion to find some individual to blame for the team's performance this year is simplistic at best and plain silly at worst. To say MR is handcuffed and cannot audible a deep route is patently absurd. How many thousand times have you heard Smith or Ryan saying, "We take what the D gave us?"

Have you ever watched a close up of D. Brees in warm ups? The whole time he is throwing passes he is twitching his shoulders and head mimicking pump fakes. These type of plays, of course, require time. But we don't see a whole lot of that from Ryan. Lots of his long passes are still thrown in a fairly short window of time, it seems, where he reads the coverage and throws a timing route straight down the sidelines as opposed t deep across the middle, etc. Toss it up and let Julio fight for it or run under it. With Roddy getting his legs under him we have begun to see some more of this. Pretty nice and fairly deep pass to Davis versus SF when Matt was able to step up in the pocket (a rarity).

I recently read where our D led the league in "mega explosive" plays and was in the running for both explosive (atomic vs. nuclear?) plays as well as missed tackles. We don't have a great QB but we have a very good one. It is going to take a more solid team across the board to win it all relative to Denver or NE or GB. Matt is neck in neck with Flacco and Joe was able to win it with some luck and a solid supporting cast.

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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:23 pm 
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backnblack wrote:
Circumstances alter cases, Pudge. Last year's OL may have been--according to you--as good as this year's OL but last year's OL had the benefit of the 3 headed beast playing in pretty much every game at full strength. This year's team did not. the 3 headed beast is our offensive philosophy and one you pined for back when they were playing smash mouth with the Burner

You're right. And the problem is that the philosophy was geared around having that 3-headed beast. It wasn't that we had a good offensive system that happened to have 3 very good receivers. No our offensive system was the fact that we had 3 very good receivers. That has been proven without a doubt. And that's another issue I have. If Dirk Koetter is anything worth his salt, he would have an offensive system that could function without having 3 elite receivers. And the revelation of this year is that is not the case.

Cyril wrote:
doesn't fit you switching mid season to it all being the Coaches; so no you don't want to believe it.


I'm not saying it's all on the coaches. But I'm saying a lot of it (most of it) is on the coaches. But the reason for the "switch" is because I am a prophet:
viewtopic.php?p=118598#p118598
On October 9, Pudge wrote:
Yes it does. The shortcoming of the team that won't be apparent to you until you actually see the team on the field is going to be the Falcons inability to generate explosive plays sans Julio Jones. The Falcons are going to go back to the dink and dunk offense they had under Mularkey (that you hated so much), except this time they won't have the running game to support it. The Falcons offense is on the verge of collapse and it will be no more effective than the Patriots. But the Patriots are 4-1 you say, how bad can that be? Well it's an offense that is 29th in YPA, 21st in passing yards, 25th in completion percentage, 22nd in explosive plays, and 21st in passer rating with one of the 3 best QBs in the league. The Pats also have way more balance than the Falcons, who throw the ball 70% of the time, while the Pats only about 60%. The Pats are a much more balanced offense and actually have a good defense (go ahead look up the numbers). You put the Patriots passing attack with our running game and our defense, you'll be lucky to win 3 games the rest of the season.

viewtopic.php?p=118638#p118638
On October 11, Pudge wrote:
I'm very pessimistic about the prospects of the Falcons offense now that we've signed a career No. 4 WR in Robiskie. I was very high on Robiskie back in 2009, while I thought Brian Hartline was going to be J.A.G. Well I got that backwards. I watched some tape of Robiskie from last year, and he just can't separate from coverage. Had the Flacons brought him into camp in April, I would have been in favor of it. That would have given him time to get comfortable in the offense (although he's not completely new to it), and also afforded him the opportunity to beat out players like Davis, Cone, Marcus Jackson, Rodgers, etc. for reps, and thus been a legitimate option perhaps as the 4th WR. But a mid-season signing?

I'll say this, if Koetter can find a way to keep Ryan's numbers from slipping too much, let's say he still manages to complete 63%+ of his passes and has a YPA above 7, then I'll give TD some credit. Right now his numbers are at about 69% and 7.6. But I find this very silly. TD was in NE back in 2006, when Brady's numbers dipped mainly because he didn't have any WRs: Reche Caldwell, Troy Brown in his final season, Jabar Gaffney, and Doug Gabriel. That's what prompted the Patriots to trade for Moss and Welker the following year, and the rest is history.

This is the problem with TD, he seems intent on carving his own path that he ignores many of the lessons he should have learned in New England.

When Julio went down, I knew our offense was going to tank. But I wanted to give the caoching staff the benefit of the doubt because they had earned my respect the previous year, and you never know as things often will surprise you in the NFL year after year.

But the team either lacked the foresight to see what was coming (which is a very bad sign) or simply incompetent in preventing it from happening (which is also a very bad sign).

The level of comfort that people seem to have with this fact astounds me. Complacent organization. Complacent fan base I guess...

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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:41 pm 
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Name the three star players on the falcons this year...MR, JJ and RW, right? Divide that by two and it makes you call yourself a prophet for knowing the O will tank? Prophesy ain't what it used to be, however, when Cyril called for a record of 6-10 during pre-season you didn't see that? Cyril's no prophet and neither are you but someone who can't accept the fact that poor line play spells doom is a heretic. Couple poor line play with a rash of injuries and roster turnover and you end up with the Falcons in 2013. You note that the number of long pass plays decreased after the 5th game. Duh...I wonder why? Have you noticed that on most long plays our WRs aren't even as open as the guy covering them is?

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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:46 pm 
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backnblack wrote:
Name the three star players on the falcons this year...MR, JJ and RW, right? Divide that by two and it makes you call yourself a prophet for knowing the O will tank? Prophesy ain't what it used to be, however, when Cyril called for a record of 6-10 during pre-season you didn't see that? Cyril's no prophet and neither are you but someone who can't accept the fact that poor line play spells doom is a heretic. Couple poor line play with a rash of injuries and roster turnover and you end up with the Falcons in 2013. You note that the number of long pass plays decreased after the 5th game. Duh...I wonder why? Have you noticed that on most long plays our WRs aren't even as open as the guy covering them is?

Yeah, but the difference is that the reasons that Cyril said the team would tank are NOT the reasons why the team did tank, despite his attempts to say they are. The Falcons aren't bad because they have unproven players up front. If having 4 unproven starters up front (and the Falcons only had 3), then the Chargers OL wouldn't be as good as it has been this year. The Chiefs went into this year with just as many unproven players as we did on our front line, did you see their OL causing them to lose every game? The rookie CBs that Cyril said would spell disaster are arguably the strength of our defense, etc. The only thing that Cyril got right was that the team would have a losing record. And the main reason for that isn't because of those issues, it's because our #1 WR got hurt and this team didn't know how to deal with that ONE injury.

No, combine poor line play with bad defense and one injury and poor coaching and you get the Falcons in 2013.

backnblack wrote:
Duh...I wonder why? Have you noticed that on most long plays our WRs aren't even as open as the guy covering them is?

And my question Bnb, why are you so resigned to this? Why am I one of the few people that is upset that this team didn't try to get another deep threat over the past 2 years (when our depth was obviously lacking) or during the 3 week period when we knew (or should have known) we needed one to survive and try to make some sort of turnaround after the 1-4 start? Why is this organization getting a pass for that complacency?

You keep trying to tell me that they can't throw the ball downfield. And I look at teams like the Colts, Cardinals, Browns, Jagaurs, Dolphins, etc. that have OLs just as bad as ours if not worse, and yet they still throw the ball downfield WAY MORE than we do. How can you say we can't do that? No, my friend, it's not that we can't do these things. It's that we didn't do these things or we won't do these things.

To sit there and say that Ryan doesn't have enough time to throw the ball downfield is a bold-faced lie. I've seen the All-22, every single snap of it. And the fact is the protection around Ryan is A LOT better than you and others here that are saying how terrible our OL is think. Is it good? No. But you guys keep talking/acting like it's a 2 out of 10, when it's more like a 4 or 5 out of 10. Is that ideal? No. Is that good enough? No, although it was last year. And the reason for that is because this team had good WRs to make up for it. And in the situation where the likelihood that this team lacked said weapons, did this team do anything about it? No.

And you guys keep telling me, "Oh they couldn't have done anything about that." BULLSHIT! They could've done anything they chose to. They could have traded a #2 for Josh Gordon. They could have done something, at least something more than what they did, which was sign a marginal NFL WR in Brian Robiskie.

The difference between you and me, is that I'm taking the coaching staff to task for those failures. Look, this season is over and in the tank. But if they don't make serious changes in 2014 and beyond, then there's no reason to hold back anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:37 pm 
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Think about it another way... There's really 1 aspect of this thing the Falcons coaches control. They can't control whether Lamar Holmes blocks well, or whether Harry Douglas catches a pass or whether Paul WOrrilow gets off a block, or Thomas DeCoud misses a tackle.

But what they do control, they do control whether or not the team can go out and try to find a competent NFL wide receiver when the offense clearly needs one, and they do control whether or not the team calls plays that require the team to run deeper routes, or whether or not that 1st & 10 run to Steven Jackson that typically goes for 2-3 yards is instead a play-action pass that is designed to go to one of the WRs that is running an 18-yard go route.

That's what bothers me. That's the part I'm blaming the coaches for. If they had done that aspect and Lamar Holmes still missed his block, Douglas dropped the pass, etc. then we would be having a different discussion. But they didn't take care of their own business, and thus they deserve to be criticized, and IMO criticized heavily. Because IMO the areas where they dropped the ball should be no-brainers for coaches as allegedly capable as ours are.

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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:39 pm 
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Your logic is fallacious. Because team A had unproven starters and team B had unproven starters but Team A is doing Ok while team B isn't only says that, quite possibly, team A's unproven starters panned out while team B's did not. And how can you--of all people--suggest trading away yet another high draft pick for a WR. Maybe because even still you don't realize that games are won and lost on the lines. Furthermore, what we could have gotten Gordon or anyone else for is nothing but conjecture on your part. On the one hand you say we don't but should have or develop depth and on the other you are saying, screw that, trade away next year's number 2 for a player somebody else has rather than play our guys.

The only solution if you are correct is to fire Smith as you feel like no matter who he hires as OC we get the same O. So, why not just come out and say that? You are waiting for him to morph into Sean Payton? You are being complacent, Pudge. :lol:

I have not watched the All 22 but I have seen a few deep routes where the pass was perfect and dropped or the pass was inaccurate but I have not seen anyone consistently getting wide open. Even on JJ's highlight reel he is often in tight coverage and just makes a play. Also, to say we did not recover from one injury is disingenuous. We may have had the one guy go IR but Roddy and Jackson have--for the better part of the year--been shells of themselves and our starting LT, such that he is, was ineffective and then sent to IR. Doe sit happen to other teams? Sure. OTOH, the Eagles have had not one single player go to IR this year. It matters.

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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:19 pm 
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No, bnb, Cyril's point was that the team erred by going into this summer and this season with unproven starters. And my counter to that weeks ago, was that the mistakes made up front had nothing to do with the unproven nature of the OL this summer, but the poor personnel decisions made by the teams years ago in terms of their OL. Overpaying Blalock and Baker were bigger mistakes than thinking Konz, Reynolds, Johnson/Holmes could get the job done. Their play really hasn't been that bad.

The issue isn't that our guys are unproven. It's that our guys aren't that good. And this team has routinely rewarded mediocre play with big time money, particularly over the past 2-3 years. That is a recurring problem that today is biting us in the butt because we don't have the playmakers at other positions to cover up for those issues.

And in general, I agree that it starts in the trenches. But for this team, it's really about their weapons at WR/TE. There's no way you can watch this year's team and last year's team and not make that correct conclusion.

There's no way you can see that Matt Ryan had Top 10 production in the first 5 games when Julio Jones was on the field (and while Roddy played, he was no more effective a WR than Drew Davis), adn then see have Bottom 5 production after that point and conclude that it starts with the OL.

If you're calling something fallacious, then that is pure fallacy.

And I went on record saying several times that I wouldn't have traded a #2 to Cleveland for Josh Gordon. But the argument is that there were no options for the Falcons to turn to in order to get a good WR after Week 5. And that's not true. An option was trading a #2 to Cleveland for Josh Gordon. Whether it was an ideal option or not doesn't change the fact that it was a legit option for the team at that time.

Other options include signing Brandon Lloyd, Laurent Robinson, Steve Breaston, Braylon Edwards, among other FAs (who was healthy and ready to go among that group, I don't know, but that's what workouts are for), or trading for another WR that was for less than a #2. As I said with Gordon, I would've been willing to give up a #3 for a good starting WR like Gordon or Nicks or Cecil Shorts (since Jax seemed to be giving away players).

Is firing Smith the only option? No, it's not. Is it the best option? Perhaps. Again, because of Smith's success over 5 years, I don't want him to be fired. Just like I've said several times over the past 6 months that I don't think TD deserves to be fired. He deserves the chance to fix the numerous mistkaes he's made over the past 2-3 years.

And I'm willing to give Smitty a chance to fix his mistakes made over the past year. But I think as far as 2013 goes, it was some of the worst collective coaching I've ever seen this team have, certainly since I've been watching every game they've played since 2005.

It's not my job to come up with solutions to the team's problems. That's on TD & Smitty. If I was good at that, I wouldn't be where I am. And they are where they are because they should be good at that. At least as far as 2013 is concerned, they have not shown that they deserve to be where they are at.

But again, I'm about the entire body of work when it comes to assessing their job security. And if that is the case, then I think for both Smitty & TD, they've done more good than bad over the course of 6 years. But in the case of TD, I think the bad has outweighed the good since 2010. Another bad year for Smith in 2014, and the scale may be tipping against him too.

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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:33 pm 
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Chasing your tail, Pudge. These are options but not good options? Seriously? OK, here's another option...hire a hit man to kill off D. Brees and C. Newton. The division is ours!

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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:02 pm 
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Pudge lied when he said
Quote:
The rookie CBs that Cyril said would spell disaster are arguably the strength of our defense, etc


I never ever said that!! Then Josh Gorden never wanted to leave Cleveland and he was vocal about it!!

Pudge later said
Quote:
No, bnb, Cyril's point was that the team erred by going into this summer and this season with unproven starters. And my counter to that weeks ago, was that the mistakes made up front had nothing to do with the unproven nature of the OL this summer, but the poor personnel decisions made by the teams years ago in terms of their OL. Overpaying Blalock and Baker were bigger mistakes than thinking Konz, Reynolds, Johnson/Holmes could get the job done. Their play really hasn't been that bad.


Now you've admitting I'm right, but you don't like the time I'm choosing?? Who cares when the mistakes were made? They were made; and this season I just said the Percentage OF UNPROVEN starters would hurt us.....

Its so simple a third grader should get it?? We have no receivers who can get open long!!
We have no offensive linemen that can run block; and none that can give Ryan much time.

We have no defensive linemen who can pressure a qb; and our rookie linebackers are doing good for rookies; and so are our rookie corner backs; but not good enough for a team with no
pass rush.....

Over paying Blalock and Baker may have been bigger mistakes than thinking Konz, Reynolds,
Johnson'/ Holmes could make it, but it has nothing to do with these players and others not being average NFL starters..... You've done everything you can to change subjects on why we're bad; what we might could have done; but you won't admit I didn't even say who would be bad; I just named
open positions and said that's too many for this team to fill based on their roster.

Why not admit I WAS RIGHT IN MY SMALL WAY; then you can expound on when these problems started; and in any way you think they can be improved!!

My guess is that both Smith and Thomas D. went to Blank and admitted they blew it; but pointed out the rookies and free agents that were getting better; and we could trade for better receivers that might cost us a #1 or 2, or told him we could play it out and find our best players and have good draft picks next year.....

Since Blank doesn't need to worry about his new Stadium till 2017, he probably went alone with we'll stick it out this year, but it better not happen again!! That's just a guess; as has been everything else, but your arguing some things that are just too obvious. Once the injuries hit we couldn't pull out..... We'd played a great game against Frisco and Roddy reminded us of what he could do, and Holmes and maybe Reynolds,
and Hawley may be our new center.... Just as I hoped the season wasn't wasted for future season's but its sucked for this year!! It does happen but shouldn't happen very often...We also see what Ryan has in a terrible year like this!!

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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:46 pm 
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Blank had NOTHING to do with it. It was TD & Smitty. This is how they conduct business. THey don't sign players unless there is an injury. Hell, they don't even work out players unless there's an injury. They sign their 8 guys to the practice squad, and those guys will remain on the p-squad all year unless there's an injury. Then those guys will come back to the team the next year, and most/all of them will be cut, and they'll shuffle in 8 new guys. This is why they don't develop players because they believe in a "process" or "system" that by and large doesn't work.

backnblack wrote:
Chasing your tail, Pudge. These are options but not good options? Seriously?

Good options, I don't know if there were good options back in October. If it were me, I would have given up a #3 and something else for Josh Gordon. But you guys say that wasn't an option. So then maybe it's signing Brandon Lloyd, Laurent Robinson, Steve Breaston, Early Doucet, Devery Henderson, MIchael Jenkins, Deion Branch, Donte Stallworth, Ramses Barden, Devin Aromashodu, Mike Thomas, Chaz Schilens, or Chad Johnson. Maybe it's trading for another receiver.

I don't know what the move they should have made. But I know all those moves were better than signing Brian Robiskie. When Julio went down, do you know the 4 wide receivers they worked out:

Robiskie, Mohamed Massaquoi, Courtney Roby, and Matt Willis. Really?

Again, all I asked is that this team make an attempt. They signed Robiskie, which was quickly a mistake. Yet, they let him languish on the inactive list for 5 weeks. How long did it take them to figure out that he wasn't the guy? Really 5 weeks? And then what they do when they cut him, they just sign a backup RT (Terren Jones) to the roster to give us 5 healthy OTs, when you only need 3.

Again, I'm not paid 7 figures to solve this team's problems, but MIke Smith and Thomas Dimitroff are. But what upsets me is not that they didn't solve the problem. Replacing Julio was a gargantuan task, don't think I'm flippant about that. Again, I'm upset with the lack of effort more than the lack of execution.

That's the thing you guys aren't getting.

You guys have said over and over again that the Robiskie signing was inconsequential, and that's where you're wrong. It was everything. It was everything that went wrong with this season in a nutshell. Thinking a 2nd round pick like Peter Konz would be able to step up at center after a good preseason and playing his natural position isn't a bad decision. If there was a mistake made there it was not giving Hawley a shot before Week 11. But signing Robiskie perfectly sums up the complacency I've been complaining about for years, and the fact that it was quickly clear that move was a mistake, did this team do anything to correct it? No. They just twiddled their thumbs. And signed an overweight, slow, 3-year project of a right tackle to the roster.

That's just not complacency, it's downright incompetence.

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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:51 pm 
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Then you want Smith and TD fired or you are doing the exact same thing they are which is hoping in one hand and shitting in the other and waiting to see which one fills up first. If their methodology is incompetence and complacency then why in the world would you let them hang around for another season? So, who do you hire to replace them?

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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:38 pm 
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Man give it a rest. You guys all have valid points. This has been a total organizational failure and starts at the top. TD deserves the most blame, because he is the boss. Then comes Smith and the coaches. Then the players. I think the rookies played about as well as could be expected, but this is still a team that is lacking talent on the defensive side of the ball. Give me an excellent defense and I bet they could actually win multiple playoff games.


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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:48 pm 
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backnblack wrote:
Then you want Smith and TD fired or you are doing the exact same thing they are which is hoping in one hand and shitting in the other and waiting to see which one fills up first. If their methodology is incompetence and complacency then why in the world would you let them hang around for another season? So, who do you hire to replace them?

Yes, I want change. Either they alter their methodology or they go. My hope is that this season will cause them to really reexamine their own system and do a complete reevaluation of this roster. Now, if the status quo remains, then that won't happen and it'll be business as usual. And since they've operated that way for 6 years, the odds seem very low that they'll make dramatic changes in Year 7. But stranger things have happened. They are afforded this offseason to see if those changes are coming, and we'll know if real change is on the horizon by how much "dead weight" they cut this offseason.

I stopped playing the "this is who I want to coach/GM" game after 2007 when I wanted Cam Cameron and he went 1-15 with the Dolphins.

I want someone that will draft better players and someone that will be more aggressive as a coach, particularly on offense. Whoever that is is out of my realm of knowledge.

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 Post subject: Re: It should be Dominique Time
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:12 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
backnblack wrote:
Then you want Smith and TD fired or you are doing the exact same thing they are which is hoping in one hand and shitting in the other and waiting to see which one fills up first. If their methodology is incompetence and complacency then why in the world would you let them hang around for another season? So, who do you hire to replace them?

Yes, I want change. Either they alter their methodology or they go. My hope is that this season will cause them to really reexamine their own system and do a complete reevaluation of this roster. Now, if the status quo remains, then that won't happen and it'll be business as usual. And since they've operated that way for 6 years, the odds seem very low that they'll make dramatic changes in Year 7. But stranger things have happened. They are afforded this offseason to see if those changes are coming, and we'll know if real change is on the horizon by how much "dead weight" they cut this offseason.

I stopped playing the "this is who I want to coach/GM" game after 2007 when I wanted Cam Cameron and he went 1-15 with the Dolphins.

I want someone that will draft better players and someone that will be more aggressive as a coach, particularly on offense. Whoever that is is out of my realm of knowledge.

So you're like the guy who jumped off of the Empire Bldg and when someone rushes up to him to ask what happened you say, "I don't know--I just got here."

We are the Peanut Gallery and we can sit back and take potshots at whoever and whatever we want. We can talk about who we should draft or what scheme we should run or how the roster could be managed but, in the end, es machts nicht. Why do any of it? You found out what you knew about HCs with Cameron? I would humbly suggest that you probably know about the same about all of the above and, in all candor and humility, I say you know a lot more about the league and personnel than I do. What I do know is that I don't know and that is probably what separates the two of us.

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