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 Post subject: What if...?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:50 pm 
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I just wrote a long blog about the subject, but I'm curious what others opinions are. You can read the blog here:

http://falcfans.com/blog/2006/06/big-ben.html

But the question I ask is, what if it was Michael Vick instead of Big ben that just got himself laid up in a hospital for doing something stupid and reckless? How would you feel?

Would it immediately end the days of Michael Vick's value to the Atlanta Falcons organization in your book and usher in the era of Matt Schaub? Would you give him the benefit of the doubt but become more skeptical? Or would you vehemently defend Vick?

The short answer after reading my long blog post is that I would choose Option A. At this point in his career, Michael Vick getting into a Big Ben-like situation would basically end all faith I'd have in his ability to take this team to the next level.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:24 am 
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I choose "A" as well but for entirely different reasons.Well documented , so I won't bore you guys over here...lol


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 Post subject: Guilt
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:51 am 
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I wouldn't do anything to Vick for being as stupid as anyone else in the U.S. Make motorcycles illegal and I might change my mind, but only if and when that happens. Ben, or in your example Vick, was simply enjoying his life.

Ben did not: Brandish a firearm, rape a teenage girl (or any girl for that matter), take drugs, sell drugs, transport drugs, proposition a prostitute (a personal favorite for all Falcons Fans :twisted: ), kill someone after a Super Bowl, beat his wife/girlfriend, drive while under the influence, etc.

Ben didn't break ANY law. Ben may have been foolish, but aren't we all? I have seen pro athletes iron their shirts while on their bodies (15 Day DL), fall off a treadmill (blown ACL, out for season), slip on their icy driveway (2 season games lost), etc. ALL of these things are stupid mistakes, but they are not crimes.

Pro athletes are human beings, and they as much as anyone deserve to live the life they want. What if a guy likes to build things, do you take away his power tools because they are potentially dangerous?

Let people be people, it is a free country after all.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:21 am 
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I'd say, if Vick had a motorcycle wreck like Rothlisberger had wearing no helmet, he's stupid. But how does this translate into someone feeling the guy can't lead the team anymore? Will Rothlisberger lose his leadership abilities? We'll see but his team mates have already defended the guy.

It was never proven one way or the other but there's always the Ron Mexico situation that was settled with a settlement(money).

Nah, if Vick had the accident w/o a helmet, it'd be stupid,...but as for not being able to get to the next level because of the stupid thing he did doesn't make sense. I can see if Vick had a head injury that permanently damaged his brain or something keeping him from taking the team to the next level,...but not a concussion.

lol MF1,...Eugene Robinson,...grrrrrrrrrrr


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:00 pm 
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MF1, I agree Big Ben's transgressions are not even on the totem pole in terms of bad things pro athletes do.

BUt the point is it was completely reckless. In fact, it might have been one of the most reckless things you can do. Driving a motorcycle sans helmet, whether against the law or not is entirely reckless. To me that's the equivalent of driving a car at night without your seatbelt on while talking on your cellphone and eating McDonalds at once.

I'm in the camp that doesn't believe pro athletes should be crucified for the stupid things they do when millions of other people do them every day in this country. But the difference is his actions were completely reckless. The other examples you mentioned aren't nearly in the same category because those aren't live threatening injuries. Big Ben deliberately and purposefully put himself in a life-threatening situation.

It's not the riding of the motorcycle that bothers me, it's the riding of one without a helmet.

And the difference between Big Ben and Vick, IMO, as I stated in my blog post is that Vick is near the end of hte line. Sure, he's only 26 and 6 years into his career, but these next 2-4 years on this team collectively are his final shot to prove he's truly the guy. If by 2008 and 2009 Vick hasn't shown that next level of play and being able to take this team to that next level, then I believe the Falcons will and should make plans to get rid of him. The writing is on the wall and something like this with the injuries Ben's likely sustained will affect his play significantly for the next 1-2 years.

The difference between pro athletes and regular people is that they don't have $5-60 million riding on each decision they make. Unlike the CEO of a company that does often have that sort of money riding on his decisions, if he gets himself injured, the money is going to keep coming so that he can recover and continue to live at his current status. For a pro athlete, that's not going to happen.

I'm not saying pro athletes shouldn't be allowed to ride bikes, go skydiving, bungee jump, the types of activities that may make most regularly people cringe and go hide in a corner. But there is a connection between a man's ability to lead 10 other guys and his ability to lead himself. As I said in the blog, luckily for Roethlisberger he made this mistake very early in his career. For Vick, it would not be the same issue. He would have made this mistake arguably halfway through his playing career.

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 Post subject: Re: Guilt
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:51 pm 
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MarylandFalcon1 wrote:

Ben didn't break ANY law.


Actually he did, he did not have a permit.


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 Post subject: Ben
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:37 pm 
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Yeah Pudge, I get the 2-4 years left on the shelf for the Vick thing. Still, a car accident is different from a football related injury. There aren't too many Crysler New Yorker on the 30 yard line waiting for you to go across the middle, or drop back to pass :P .

I truly doubt that Ben will be a Kerry Collins. Kerry wasn't the same for nearly three seasons after Bill Romo broke his jaw in Carolina. You didn't see him come back to form until he went to the Giants because he was gunshy about taking a hit while sitting in the pocket. That, however, was 'football related', not a car accident. Off the field injury doesn't really relate to on field injury because you can't be hurt in the same way. Now Ben might have flashbacks if he is going riding again, and that might translate to harder time getting on a bike, but is shouldn't mess with his play.

One thing I can say about Vick and his next few years however is that at least he is still skinny. MAN, HAS ANYONE SEEN DONOVAN MCNABB!? That guy needs to lay off the Chunky Soup for sure! If Vick ever get close to that big his years as a QB are DONE!

Oh and BridBrain, LMAO! Thanks for the correction, now Ben is REALLY STUPID! :wink:

MF1

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:20 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
And the difference between Big Ben and Vick, IMO, as I stated in my blog post is that Vick is near the end of hte line. Sure, he's only 26 and 6 years into his career, but these next 2-4 years on this team collectively are his final shot to prove he's truly the guy. If by 2008 and 2009 Vick hasn't shown that next level of play and being able to take this team to that next level, then I believe the Falcons will and should make plans to get rid of him. The writing is on the wall and something like this with the injuries Ben's likely sustained will affect his play significantly for the next 1-2 years.


May I use this on my site so I can show the fickle nature of the NFL fan? lol I'm teasing! Really though,...people around the World need to hear this point of view,...that Vick is near the end of the line. Thank you! lol


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:06 pm 
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Hate to say it, but at Vick's salary cap hit loosing his services for an extended period of time could be ugly. I douby Ben's salary cap hit is comparable.

Remember when Gant did the same thing after signing one of the biggest one year deals in MLB history? Even in a sport without a salary cap with an owner with deep pockets that had to hurt.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:22 pm 
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MF1, don't forget Big Ben suffered a concussion in that accident, so yes it could have a definite impact on his play because he's much more susceptible for more damaging concussions in the future.

There hasn't been a lot of talk about the gravity of Big Ben's injuries, which seems to me to indicate that they are very significant, and the expectation that he'll miss only 1 preseason game is totally off. I'd be willing to bet he will play no more than a single series in the preseason if at all and I wouldn't at all be surprised to find out later, much closer to opening date that he's expected to miss several weeks to several months of the season.

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 Post subject: Re: Guilt
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:37 pm 
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BirdBrain wrote:
MarylandFalcon1 wrote:

Ben didn't break ANY law.


Actually he did, he did not have a permit.


I was just about to say that. I am pretty sure he also signed in his contract that he would ride with a helmet... so yes he may have been enjoying life but when u are a football player (at least in my opinion) rules for ur team basically are the law. THe fact is that Ben was def. in the wrong. People can defend him but I would be pissed off if i was a pitt fan. Vick better not be that stupid.


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 Post subject: Vick
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:51 pm 
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Well Vick did say that after his ATV accident three years ago he stays away from all sport vehicles. His only options now are Golf and Fishing, which I would think are pretty safe for a QB.

MF1

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"I am certainly not afraid to have Brian Finneran on the field. Has he ever not made plays? He just makes plays. He is one of those guys that just makes plays. He is dependable."

J. Mora JR.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:24 pm 
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lol You just made the big time Pudge,...ya know where to look for it, don't you?;)

even mentioned you by name. :D


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