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 Post subject: Re: How do you right this ship? 2014 and beyond
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:11 pm 
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Ok its a little late now; but next year lets pay a little more attention to preseason.

Your not looking for a team effort; but good play from a number of players.

I believe it was said when you go 0-4 in preseason, your chance of making the playoffs is 17%.

Sure there are 17% exceptions, but if preseason goes bad; expect the same during the season.

Those games may not count; but I expressed my concern then, but they really do count. The
players left are your team for the season, and you can expect injuries... Just reminding......

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 Post subject: Re: How do you right this ship? 2014 and beyond
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:39 pm 
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Well the preseason tells you whether or not you have depth. And it was clear from our preseason that we didn't have depth (nor have we really had any throughout the past 5 years). And then the injuries hit and that lack of depth was exposed this year.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you right this ship? 2014 and beyond
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:05 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
I want to be clear in case you're confused. I too want to improve the offensive line.



http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/atla ... ent-110913

when it gets to THIS point, that not even broke down Polynesians and JAG's can get it done, you actually consider Mud Duck?

Is Konz THAT bad?! :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: How do you right this ship? 2014 and beyond
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:21 am 
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fun gus wrote:
Pudge wrote:
I want to be clear in case you're confused. I too want to improve the offensive line.



http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/atla ... ent-110913

when it gets to THIS point, that not even broke down Polynesians and JAG's can get it done, you actually consider Mud Duck?

Is Konz THAT bad?! :shock:

I really have to wonder if we are simply incapable of developing talent. I mean, look at how crappy our roster is at this point... The guys who seem to show up year in and out are the new guys... Then, they get worse over time. I don't think I've seen anyone, outside of Ryan and Jones, develop under this regime. Everyone is on a gradual decline. I am sure that there will be other cited exceptions beyond Ryan and Jones, but seriously, doesn't it seem like most of our talent either stays the same, or gradually declines?


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 Post subject: Re: How do you right this ship? 2014 and beyond
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:29 am 
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RobertAP wrote:
fun gus wrote:
Pudge wrote:
I want to be clear in case you're confused. I too want to improve the offensive line.



http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/atla ... ent-110913

when it gets to THIS point, that not even broke down Polynesians and JAG's can get it done, you actually consider Mud Duck?

Is Konz THAT bad?! :shock:

I really have to wonder if we are simply incapable of developing talent. I mean, look at how crappy our roster is at this point... The guys who seem to show up year in and out are the new guys... Then, they get worse over time. I don't think I've seen anyone, outside of Ryan and Jones, develop under this regime. Everyone is on a gradual decline. I am sure that there will be other cited exceptions beyond Ryan and Jones, but seriously, doesn't it seem like most of our talent either stays the same, or gradually declines?


the starting safeties, 3 cb, spoon, lofton, dent, peters, douglas, holmes, mr. Zolciak, bosher, quizz, snelling, weems, dahl.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you right this ship? 2014 and beyond
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:51 am 
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samedi wrote:
the starting safeties, 3 cb, spoon, lofton, dent, peters, douglas, holmes, mr. Zolciak, bosher, quizz, snelling, weems, dahl.

Are you saying that all of these players have, "improved," under this regime? I'll give you Peters, Bosher, Dahl, and perhaps Douglas. The others, I don't feel have really, "improved," since they started here.

Moore is very hit and miss. Based on his play so far this year, I believe that we saw his best last year. Decoud still looks like a rookie at times.

I'm going to leave the two new CBs out of this because they're rookies, and it's hard to say what they have learned under this staff vs what they came in here with. Who's the 3rd CB? Grimes? The five other draft picks that TD has used on cornerbacks?

Spoon... I really like Spoon, but injury aside, his best football was two years ago. WTF happened?

Lofton was a pretty good MLB. He was horrible in pass protection, and that's why he's no longer here. Dent is obviously no better, and will likely be depth next year.

Holmes showed up to camp out of shape. He has looked better on the left side of the line, but he still looks like he gets tired as the game goes on. Jury is out on him at this point.

Biermann has developed a little, but not too much. He's a high motor guy, but he's never really seemed to develop to that next level of being an impact player. Don't get me wrong, he has made some impacts here and there along the way, but those moments have been quite infrequent. Spoon is the same way, but Spoon is a 1st round pick.

Quizz has been a bit of a disappointment for me. Then again, that might be the offensive line's problem.

Snelling is our 3rd string RB, and has been since he got here. He's never been able to get beyond that, and frankly, I don't understand why. This is an example of this regime not giving some players the opportunity to develop. Whenever our other guys have been out, Snelling has gotten it done. (aside from this year with this atrocious offensive line)

Weems was a very good special teams player... Special teams players aren't, "developed." Special teams is all about instinct and athleticism. As a wide receiver, Weems never developed.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you right this ship? 2014 and beyond
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:30 am 
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I think what you're defining as "development" is not really development.

You're basically saying that because certain players maxed out at some point in the past 4-6 years, means that they stopped developing. Generally speaking, all NFL players peak between years 3-5 in the league, and however good you are at that point, you will not improve from that point.

Biermann is clearly a good example of a player that did develop. He was an 240-pound tweener taken in Round 5 out of Montana. He has morphed into a 260-pound hybrid DE that could be a 3rd DE on most NFL teams, or a starting SAM on many NFL teams that is an effective starter and quality backup. If that's not considered development, then I don't know what is.

Just because he hasn't exceeded that doesn't mean he hasn't developed. What happens is that players will typically hit their mark in year 3 or 4, and then hover around that level for another 3-5 years afterwards.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you right this ship? 2014 and beyond
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:45 am 
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I totally get that. And I said that Biermann did develop a bit. However, I'm thinking that Biermann capped out in year two and hasn't really improved much since then despite getting considerably more playing time. I feel that there should have been more progression from year 2-3, but there was not. The same goes for most of the players on our roster. There's very little development beyond their 1st year. During their 2nd year, that's the best you can expect from them. Most of the defensive players on our roster had their best years in their 2nd year and have tapered off since then. Is that normal to see throughout this league?


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 Post subject: Re: How do you right this ship? 2014 and beyond
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:12 am 
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I don't think you can make it anything except by the individual.

Abe was kept going the last 5 years because I think he was used right by Coach Smith.
The same for Gonzo, and McClure. We've done a great job keeping good players levels high!!
(and that's darn important)

Now these are players with 8-12 or more years experience. Now I really believe that Sam Baker can still be a good player but maybe not? Same with DeCoud, Moore, and some linemen. I think we expect too much too soon, and sometimes I think the organization does too!! I mean Babs was not that good; then came on strong about year 4.

Julio, Roddy, & Ryan have improved.

I'm really not making a case for either side; my case would be if we drafted just a little better (even just a little) then obviously the better talent you have to work with has its best chance for improving. On a positive; its not like we cut people that go somewhere else and tear up the league; so that tells me its more about initial personnel; than the coaching not helping players get better.

I would also say you can make a case for either side according to which side you start with!!

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 Post subject: Re: How do you right this ship? 2014 and beyond
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:32 am 
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Quote:
I mean, look at how crappy our roster is at this point


On the defensive side of the ball it has been for a while. But it's been camoflauged by timely turn overs and the offense saving the day. Fans like you have chosen to ignore it because of the 13-3 records and potent scoring punch. Well, look what happens when inuries take out the offense, the defense doesn't have the talent to take over a game.

You can put a tuxedo on a turd, but at the end of the day it's still a turd.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you right this ship? 2014 and beyond
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:30 pm 
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AngryJohnny51 wrote:
Quote:
I mean, look at how crappy our roster is at this point


On the defensive side of the ball it has been for a while. But it's been camoflauged by timely turn overs and the offense saving the day. Fans like you have chosen to ignore it because of the 13-3 records and potent scoring punch. Well, look what happens when inuries take out the offense, the defense doesn't have the talent to take over a game.

You can put a tuxedo on a turd, but at the end of the day it's still a turd.

I haven't been ignoring it. I've been saying FOR YEARS that we need to work on the lines. I feel like I've been the one who has been ignored.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you right this ship? 2014 and beyond
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:53 am 
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Robert you know I haven't ignored you (: But our issues have been on other subjects.

I believe just like you " it all starts upfront" ........ The darn problem is once they draft corners
and receivers what you gonna do?? I mean I could bitch all year about no line; then I'm just a bitcher. So I usually try to get behind what the front office is doing; and go along because sometimes the outcome is good.

The true story on this franchise is they have wasted more #1 picks probably more than any organization; and both lines usually suck!!

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 Post subject: Re: How do you right this ship? 2014 and beyond
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:48 am 
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I recall int he early 90s when the Falcons were run and shoot and they signed Bob Whitfield and Lincoln Kennedy with high draft picks that they had that a reporter said something along the lines that these were not the type of picks that ere an endorsement for the current regime so much as building blocks for any regime. Both guys played a long time in the league but were never really what I would call elite. It is a little hard for me to figure what goes on with our OL. Was Dahl such a factor that we go from a pound you into submission team to unable to even have an adequate running game? I don't see him as that good but maybe I am wrong? Did getting whipped by GB so badly at home in the NFCCG make us blink reactionarily and totally abandon the "players closest to the ball" approach that was proffered when Smitty and TD hit town? Will this year cause an "over" reaction where all we focus on is lines?

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 Post subject: Re: How do you right this ship? 2014 and beyond
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:49 pm 
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I don't think that Dahl was all that. However, he was a guard. Since we got rid of him, we have been experimenting with centers, tackles, guys who shouldn't be on the team, etc. Instead of going out and getting a guard, we're trying to make due with whatever crap we have laying around. Unfortunately, that seems to be the status quo when dealing with both lines at this point. We're drafting developmental players or situational players for the defensive line instead of going out and finding good fits to bolster the line.

Our front office needs to reverse its thinking. They're trying to build the team from the outside in. We need to be building from the inside out. It APPEARED as though they understood that in the first few years when they drafted Baker and Jerry with first round picks. Unfortunately, we felt comfortable enough with our team that we traded away two drafts to get one player. And I will continue to point back to that decision as the beginning of the end of what we had going.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you right this ship? 2014 and beyond
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:57 pm 
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It is not an unfair criticism but I don't quite see the point in stating it repeatedly unless it makes you feel smarter than the FO somehow. Hey, I was not all in on JJ either. Then again, I wanted Glenn Dorsey. It's done now. We have a great QB and a great WR. We have to build the team to support them. I agree and I think everyone agrees that this needs to be "players closest to the ball." What we don't agree on, perhaps, is whether this has been attempted at all. I think they have invested in the lines but some of the investments just haven't worked out well. It's an inexact science.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you right this ship? 2014 and beyond
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:16 pm 
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RobertAP wrote:
I don't think that Dahl was all that. However, he was a guard. Since we got rid of him, we have been experimenting with centers, tackles, guys who shouldn't be on the team, etc. Instead of going out and getting a guard, we're trying to make due with whatever crap we have laying around. Unfortunately, that seems to be the status quo when dealing with both lines at this point. We're drafting developmental players or situational players for the defensive line instead of going out and finding good fits to bolster the line.

Our front office needs to reverse its thinking. They're trying to build the team from the outside in. We need to be building from the inside out. It APPEARED as though they understood that in the first few years when they drafted Baker and Jerry with first round picks. Unfortunately, we felt comfortable enough with our team that we traded away two drafts to get one player. And I will continue to point back to that decision as the beginning of the end of what we had going.


Holy s***. How many times you gonna tell us?

The lines need to improve. We get it.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you right this ship? 2014 and beyond
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:26 pm 
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I'm starting to get worried about Rob's actual health. His repetitive rants are starting to become scary.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you right this ship? 2014 and beyond
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:48 pm 
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That's nothing. Go to the Roost for perspective. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: How do you right this ship? 2014 and beyond
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:09 am 
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Emmitt wrote:
I'm starting to get worried about Rob's actual health. His repetitive rants are starting to become scary.



Obessisive compulsive posting? LOL.

I would advise not going to the roost. I can't imagine the poster's rants have changed much. I am sure some one pump chumps are still complaining about Brooking and that all of this is somehow his fault

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 Post subject: Re: How do you right this ship? 2014 and beyond
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:41 am 
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Wease wrote:
Emmitt wrote:
I'm starting to get worried about Rob's actual health. His repetitive rants are starting to become scary.



Obessisive compulsive posting? LOL.

I would advise not going to the roost. I can't imagine the poster's rants have changed much. I am sure some one pump chumps are still complaining about Brooking and that all of this is somehow his fault

:lol: Mos def OCP and, yes, there are favorite obsessions that one would think might wane with time but alas Herr Brooking cannot free himself from the stocks in the town square of certain guy's posts.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you right this ship? 2014 and beyond
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:58 am 
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2010 ' Hey we need to address the lines, Peria Jerry and Sam Baker are busts'
2011 ' Hey we need to address the lines, Peria Jerry and Sam Baker are busts'
2012 'Now we have no picks, Sam Baker had a decent year, should we give him a multiyear contract? Peria Jerry is still a bust'
2013 'Hey we need to address the lines, now Peria is having a somewhat decent contract year, should we give him another chance?'

2014' our interior line still sucks, Peria and Baker are busts'

Falcfans Forum: 'you must have a mental disablity! Lets get the lazy kid from Carolina, and draft a 4th round Polynesian to fix it!"

:lol:

I 'get it' too.... :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: How do you right this ship? 2014 and beyond
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:06 pm 
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