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 Post subject: Cornerbacks
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:20 pm 
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The Sporting News reports:

"B+: For the unit to improve, rookie Jimmy Williams must win a starting job quickly."

They list us as 5th in the NFC behind: Carolina, Dallas, Tampa, and the Eagles, in that order.

Top five in the AFC: Broncos, Bills, Steelers, Ravens, and Bengals.

MF1

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:00 pm 
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I wouldn't agree with that statement. In order for the unit I'd say that the defense needs to be more aggressive and Williams needs to play well in the nickel. Call me crazy, but usually good things don't happen when you have a rookie CB starting.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:48 pm 
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Iggles - HA, how would they still be in the top 5 at this point? Throw overrated Dallas in there too.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:50 pm 
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and where's Seattle? Chicago? NYG? Skins?

I'd prob go...

Seattle
Carolina
Atlanta
Tampa
Skins
Giants
Cowboys
Chicago


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:54 pm 
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Lito Sheppard and Sheldon Brown are both very good corners...

Terrence Newman is a very very good corner too for Dallas....


I think that high of a rating for us is still a little premature...we all have high hopes for J Williams but he's never played an NFL game, Webster isn't as bad as some folks think, but he's average at best....D Hall is good enough to give us that high of a ranking by himself...

Carolina probably has the best set of starters in the NFC....Lucas and Gamble are really good


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:12 pm 
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Yes, Sheldon Brown is becoming one of the top corners in the NFL. I believe he led the league in pass breakups last year.

I agree somewhat with Steve-O, our corners aren't bad, but I think putting us in the Top 5 is a bit too much. I think that is due to people overrating D Hall and measure J Williams off his potential rather than what he's going to contribute right away. By that sort of thinking, then the Texans have a great group of cornerbacks too.

I like our corners, don't get me wrong, but if you're going to measure starting pairs, you have to like the Seahawks, Bears, Eagles, Panthers, Cowboys, Packers, Vikings, and Bucs more than ours because each of them have a pretty good #1 corner and a #2 that is better than Webster. And despite J-Will's upside, right now guys like Ricky Manning, Aaron Glenn, Rod Hood, Kenny Wright, and Juran Bolden are better nickel backs than what J-Will will probably be this year.

I mean with exception to perhaps the Rams, every team in the NFC features a cornerback that is or has the potential to be solid #1 cornerback that should be able to handle himself against the better receivers in the league. And almost each one of them has somebody that can serve as a decent #2, either a young guy, or a veteran around the same talent level as Webster.

So whomever you would rank #1, the dropoff between say them and whoever you would rank #16 isn't that huge, at least in regards to cornerbacks.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:10 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
Yes, Sheldon Brown is becoming one of the top corners in the NFL. I believe he led the league in pass breakups last year.

I agree somewhat with Steve-O, our corners aren't bad, but I think putting us in the Top 5 is a bit too much. I think that is due to people overrating D Hall and measure J Williams off his potential rather than what he's going to contribute right away. By that sort of thinking, then the Texans have a great group of cornerbacks too.

I like our corners, don't get me wrong, but if you're going to measure starting pairs, you have to like the Seahawks, Bears, Eagles, Panthers, Cowboys, Packers, Vikings, and Bucs more than ours because each of them have a pretty good #1 corner and a #2 that is better than Webster. And despite J-Will's upside, right now guys like Ricky Manning, Aaron Glenn, Rod Hood, Kenny Wright, and Juran Bolden are better nickel backs than what J-Will will probably be this year.

I mean with exception to perhaps the Rams, every team in the NFC features a cornerback that is or has the potential to be solid #1 cornerback that should be able to handle himself against the better receivers in the league. And almost each one of them has somebody that can serve as a decent #2, either a young guy, or a veteran around the same talent level as Webster.

So whomever you would rank #1, the dropoff between say them and whoever you would rank #16 isn't that huge, at least in regards to cornerbacks.


once again....i couldnt disagree more. I dont want to be a jerk, but how could you classify some of those teams you mentioned as having better corners than ours. Packers??? are you for real?...they start Amhad Carroll, who if was released, probably couldnt even get a job with another NFL team. Cowboys??? Newman isnt anything special. Henry had a good year. But they arent better than us. The Bears CBs are a product of their front 7....put them on SF and the only reason anyone would ever hear about them is becasue they would be giving up touchdowns.

I could see the eagles, panthers, seahawks, vikings, and falcons up there....in no particlular order.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:52 pm 
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ether3917 wrote:
once again....i couldnt disagree more. I dont want to be a jerk, but how could you classify some of those teams you mentioned as having better corners than ours. Packers??? are you for real?...they start Amhad Carroll, who if was released, probably couldnt even get a job with another NFL team. Cowboys??? Newman isnt anything special. Henry had a good year. But they arent better than us. The Bears CBs are a product of their front 7....put them on SF and the only reason anyone would ever hear about them is becasue they would be giving up touchdowns.

I could see the eagles, panthers, seahawks, vikings, and falcons up there....in no particlular order.


I don't think your disagreeing is being a jerk. I have to agree with you about players being a product of their support. I have said the same thing about players like Urlacher. Nice stats, good player, but replace some of the people around him and he becomes average. Ray Lewis, another product of a uniformly good crew around him holding the line so that he can make plays.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:21 am 
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ether3917 wrote:
Packers??? are you for real?...they start Amhad Carroll, who if was released, probably couldnt even get a job with another NFL team.

You forget the Packers signed Charles Woodson this off-season giving them Woodson and Harris, both of whom have shown the same ability as D Hall to cover an opposing team's top wideout. All the teams I mentioned, IMO have a pair of starting corners that are each better than Jason Webster. In some cases, the difference isn't significant. And Terence Newman may not be a reincarnation of Deion Sanders, but he definitely has J-Web beat.
ether3917 wrote:
The Bears CBs are a product of their front 7

I don't think either Tillman or Vasher are as good as their press clippings, but again both players are better than Webster, and have shown the ability to play with the league's best.

And we know D Hall is a good example that you don't have to consistently be at the top of your game to be considered one of the top cornerbacks in the league.

And Urlacher is a very good linebacker. You could probably say that Mike Singletary was a "product of the system" if you wanted to considering that in the mid-80s he was playing behind arguably the best D-line in the past 20 years. What makes Urlacher a special player is his range and versatility. Not saying he would excel at other positions, but if you moved him to safety (his college position), he would probably be able to perform about on par with your typical NFL starter at that position, if not better. That "typical" starter being someone closer to Keion Carpenter's ability than someone like Brian Dawkins. He can play any LB position whether in the 3-4, 4-3, or 4-4, has great burst to the football, hits like a truck, can cover, can blitz, so he's in essence a complete LB. Not to mention he's never had the horses up front that Ray Lewis has had from time to time in Baltimore. It sounds like we're on the verge of another "Who's better? Lewis? Urlacher? or Brooking? argument" which IMO if you've actually seen Lewis and Urlacher play, then you wouldn't put Brooking in their class. He just can't do the same things that those two players can do.

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