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 Post subject: Observations from the Bengals at Falcons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:37 am 
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There's no trust in the offensive line at all... Matt looked like he rushed things tonight. It won't matter if Julio can get away from everyone but the cameraman if Ryan doesn't have time to throw the football.

Steven Jackson had about as much room to run as Turner did last year. 5 carries for 8 yards. HEY DIMITROFF! OFFENSIVE LINE %$&#$@!

Wingo carried the ball with authority. I had no clue who the heck #45 was... had to look it up. Of the RB's, he had the best showing. Snelling also looked good.

On the defensive side of things...
Umenyiora looks stout. Based on what I saw from Abraham last year and Umenyiora tonight, Umenyiora is an upgrade.

Massaquoi looked pretty good at times as well.

Everyone else on the defensive line looked horrible. Cincinnati had over 200 yards rushing. If we can't run, and we can't stop the run, we better have Matt airing the ball out for 3 hours every week... assuming that the OL can give him a second or two to throw the ball.

Alford gets his head around and makes plays on the ball. That's what I want to see.

Trufant got freight trained. He seemed to be ok in coverage though.

Worrilow can rack up the tackles. He needs to make some impact plays.

If it's possible, I'd like to see Brian Banks on the practice squad. On the plays that he was in the game, he was always around the ball... That's a good sign. He needs to work on his technique. More time working with the team would do him a world of good. Then again, run stuffing MLB's are a dime a dozen these days.


This isn't to say that we suck... 0 and 16 is staring us the the face... or any of that kind of stuff. But from what I saw, we have some serious issues with our starters and our depth on both lines. If we don't correct the problem, we're all going to have a Jim Mora breakdown in the not too distant future.


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 Post subject: Re: Observations from the Bengals at Falcons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:04 am 
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Already hitting the panic; why bother playing games because we aren't any good button eh?

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 Post subject: Re: Observations from the Bengals at Falcons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:04 am 
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You're inaccurately simplifying his argument to suggest that he's inaccurately simplifying the argument, no?

Parts of the team played poorly; this is not in doubt. There is the time to improve in practice, which will also help. Ultimately, what was on the field tonight--which at times was pretty awful--is not necessarily a concern. But it looked bad and is accurately described as such: 200 yards on the ground, 71 yard TD return, no holes for backs.

I was a bit shocked with how bad they looked at times, but it's only a few weeks in and a lot of these guys are going to be cut.

On the upside, I definitely get what people see in Holmes: He's got some seriously happy feet for a tackle. If he can start moving them productively to generate leverage instead of dancing, he can be a pretty good pass-blocking tackle.

Bonus upside: The Falcons were far, far better than the announcers. Party on the ninth floor!


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 Post subject: Re: Observations from the Bengals at Falcons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:16 am 
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dirtybirdnw wrote:
Already hitting the panic; why bother playing games because we aren't any good button eh?

Hardly. This is a preseason game. I posted my observations. I also used language that reflects that the issues can be corrected. I even posted a caveat at the bottom indicating that I do not believe that the sky is falling.

Something else to keep in mind... 3 of our best starters were held out of the game. Again, it's preseason. That said, there are clear, and very concerning issues with our lines. The young guys have to step up more, or TD needs to go into emergency mode.


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 Post subject: Re: Observations from the Bengals at Falcons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:35 am 
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I found this great post over on the AFMB about Worrilow's night. He did make a couple of impact plays. Gonna have to keep an eye on him.

Quote:
SkerFalcon8710
Paul Worrilow 49 -
1st play: false start on cincinati
2nd: lined up LB, danced around and ended up getting eaten up and pushed back by a block in front of him.
3rd play: covering RB out of backfield, lost contain on johnson allowing him to run right past him and gain 30+ yards
4th play danced in the hole and allowed alford to come up and make the play
5th play 2nd 11: short pass to RB, came up in pass coverage and made the tackle
6th play: covered running back out of the backfield, turned his head away from the qb and allowed johnson to make a play up field for 14 yards
7th play: coverage middle of the field, pass away from coverage
8th play: false start cin
9th play: slid through the blocks and burst through to make the tackle on the RB for a gain of 1.. 1st good play
10th: sack massaqoui good coverage
11th play: drops back coverage on TE, good pass break up.. good stand for the D at the goal.
12Th play: 1st n 10, burst up the middle and meets the rb just a little late but quick enough to get an arm around the waist to bring him down, gain of 2
13th play: in coverage off of screen
14th play: comes across the field to make a tackle after a gain of 6 on the rb
15th play: met my RG in the hole and blown back 5 yards and unable to make a play on the ball result 1st down
16th paly: sheds guard and meets rB in the hole to make the tackle, gain of 3
16th play, sheds blocker and assists on tackle with schiller
17th play breaks off block and comes through across the play to make the tackle short of a first down, great speed to get there
18th play came across play trying to get the 3rd down stop, couldnt quite make the play and ends up pushing rb out of bounds after the first down
19th play, delayed blitz, gets there late after the ball is released
20th play: sheds block on the screen and makes tackle for a 5 yard loss, great read
21st play: coverage out of screen
22nd play: drops into coverage along the goal line, pass into corner of endzone broken up by alford
23rd play: caught up in block and rb makes it to the 1 before being tackled by fS
24th play: 4th n goal: defense gets blown off the linein for a TD worrillow was MLB and was late coming up in the hole to make the tackle.
HALF
25th play, coverege on TE, swing pass to the RB, tried to shed block, maponga with the tackle.
26th play, caught up in blocking was unable to shed the block
27th play, blitz from the right side picked up easily by the RT



Positives: once he warmed up to the speed of the game he was EVERYWHERE, he wrapped up extreamly well and was solid in his coverages. was worried at first through his first series because a few plays went right past him.. really impressed me with his read and react ability and his quickness to the hole. met the RB square up in the hole a few times and was able to shed his blockers. best plays of the night were his pass break up at the goal line against the TE and when he sniffed out a screen shed the OL in front of him and blew up the RB for a 5 yard loss. played all 3 LB spots and moved around quite a bit, had a few blitz's called his way which were unsuccessful but most the time he was back in coverage and looked to be in place the majority of the time. I like his potential, wont crown him yet but I think he has a strong possibility for at least PS if not the 5th or 6th Lb spot biggest competion will be Bartu IMO.

Negatives: looked lost during the first series on D and let the QB sneak right past him for large gains a few times, was never really out of place in his coverages though. got ate up by larger linemen a few times and missed the RB coming out of the backfield. had contain on the punt returned for TD but was slow to change direction when the returner hit the gap. not really his fault but he was in the area. Not really alot of negatives on the guy on the night, liked how he adjusted quickly to the game speed and stepped up his play quickly.


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 Post subject: Re: Observations from the Bengals at Falcons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:41 am 
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My observations:

Matt Ryan is in tune, without Julio he went to work and carved up what I believe will be a top 15 defense going 6/9 for 89 yards. In my opinion outside of two throws he is totally dialed in.

After re-watching Lamar Holmes was good on all but two pass blocking snaps but was less than sufficient blocking in the run game there were three snaps where either he was blown or didn't touch anyone. The good thing is is that it doesnt seem to be a matter of talent just technique and want to.

Robert Alford is a good one, he made plays on the ball and showed his open field speed on more than one occasion and just displayed a kind of swag that he believes he can compete with anyone.

The gap between Stephen Nicholas and the young hungry LBeast isnt that far apart Worrilow is a tackling machine and Bartu can cover TEs step for step stride for stride.

Chainsaw Massaqoui has vastly improved but I would like to see him with the 1's in the Beerman's role to see if he is really legit because any slightly above player can abuse 2nd and third stringers.

Osi looked good but then again Andrew Whitworth didnt play his first step looks good and we will see what his has to offer in the next game when Brian McKinney is infront of him.

Ronnie Wingo was a turf gobbler when running the ball, but he cant drop the gimmies. If he can prove his worth on STs I hope he makes the team over Antwan Smith.

Dom Davis needs to be replaced. If Matt gets a game ending ding (knock on wood) I have zero faith that this guy will keep us in the game with a chance to win it. Nuff Said.

Harry Douglas seems different I dont know what it is. The stuff I have seem of him in camp and the move where he didnt go down or out of bounds, but instead chose to hit Newman with a stiff arm/slap like get the hell out of my way just doesnt seem like the same guy who was tripped by open field in the NFC Championship Game.

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 Post subject: Re: Observations from the Bengals at Falcons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:18 pm 
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HD seems to have really made some strides this past off season. He should fill the #3 slot on the depth chart quiet nicely and possibly be a sleeper a midst a field with Jones, White, Gonzo, and Jackson.

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 Post subject: Re: Observations from the Bengals at Falcons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:29 pm 
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samedi wrote:
You're inaccurately simplifying his argument to suggest that he's inaccurately simplifying the argument, no?

No, I think dirty knows that we go through this song and dance every summer. Trust me just search the posts on this message board over the past 3 summers, and there's two types of preseason posts: (1) from the people that are saying things aren't looking good and (2) from people that are telling those people to chill out because it's preseason.

There are some issues that the Falcons have to deal with. Dominique Davis didn't show much improvement over the off-season (which was to be expected), and the depth at safety is concerning. Other than that, everything else seems to be pretty much on schedule (assuming you had correct i.e. my expectations) 8-)

As for the starting offense. Remember Julio was out of the lineup. And our starting offense basically is Julio and Ryan. So don't try to draw too much besides realizing how mundane we are without Julio in the lineup (thanks to TD's non-effort to improve depth at WR).

Here are my highly detailed, long-winded reactions to the game, with mentions of nearly everyone on the roster:

Offense: http://falcfans.com/reactions-to-falcon ... fense-8692
Defense: http://falcfans.com/reactions-to-falcon ... fense-8696

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 Post subject: Re: Observations from the Bengals at Falcons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:50 pm 
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I find it pretty amazing that Ryan was able to move the ball down the field against a top 10 defense without Julio and Gonzo so effortlessly.

Am I the only one that thinks SJax did not look as explosive as I thought he would. Maybe he wasnt really trying and they did load the box since Julio and Gonzo were absent but I need to see more from him before I have a reason to get excited about him on this offense.

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 Post subject: Re: Observations from the Bengals at Falcons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:04 pm 
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I'm more stating that you really can't take much from Week 1 of the preseason especially with players like Jones, Gonzo, and Spoon not playing.

I think you can make individual assessments of some players but I see no real reason to reach for too much analysis at this point of the pre-season. The Falcons as of late haven't really been a great pre-season game which is more an indicator of not having depth as good as or better than their opponents.

The fact that the Falcons are not particularly deep is not a revelation. That is more or less all we saw last night. A team with a good first unit and not much beyond that.

I would expect to see more of the same against Baltimore.

Beyond that everyone is running vanilla offenses or defenses. The exception being experimental play calling but nothing necessarily part of the core game plan.

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 Post subject: Re: Observations from the Bengals at Falcons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:06 pm 
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The Mattural wrote:
Am I the only one that thinks SJax did not look as explosive as I thought he would. Maybe he wasnt really trying and they did load the box since Julio and Gonzo were absent but I need to see more from him before I have a reason to get excited about him on this offense.


Me thinks some of the veteran players are probably keeping their performance in first gear. Especially guys like Gonzo & SJax.

No real reason to go full-speed and risk injury in the pre-season.

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 Post subject: Re: Observations from the Bengals at Falcons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:38 pm 
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dirtybirdnw wrote:
I'm more stating that you really can't take much from Week 1 of the preseason especially with players like Jones, Gonzo, and Spoon not playing.

I think you can make individual assessments of some players but I see no real reason to reach for too much analysis at this point of the preseason.

My observations don't cite the overall offense, overall defense, game planning/scheming, etc. The observations were about how individuals looked, and how the lines looked. The outcome of the game means absolutely nothing, and I have drawn no conclusions from it. Your one line response to the post indicated that I think that the season is doomed. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Your original question, "why bother playing games because we aren't any good," can easily be turned into, "why bother playing or watching the game if it means nothing at all?"

The point of preseason games is evaluation. That's why you sit your starters for most of the preseason. You are evaluating the other talent that you have. Why would you criticize someone for coming on here and sharing what they saw? What's the point of these boards, if not to discuss what we see on the field?


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 Post subject: Re: Observations from the Bengals at Falcons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:01 pm 
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RobertAP wrote:
My observations don't cite the overall offense, overall defense, game planning/scheming, etc. The observations were about how individuals looked, and how the lines looked. The outcome of the game means absolutely nothing, and I have drawn no conclusions from it. Your one line response to the post indicated that I think that the season is doomed. Nothing could be farther from the truth.


With the last statement in your initial post:

RobertAP wrote:
But from what I saw, we have some serious issues with our starters and our depth on both lines. If we don't correct the problem, we're all going to have a Jim Mora breakdown in the not too distant future.

It seems that you are making larger "evaluations" than just based upon individuals. As for the last sentence, I assumed you were referring to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fjDS0jKiE

I think that's where the confusion is coming from people, because it seems like there is the implication of doom in your statements.

The Mattural wrote:
Am I the only one that thinks SJax did not look as explosive as I thought he would. Maybe he wasnt really trying

In terms of speed/quicks, he looked about the same as he did with the Rams last year. As for not running as hard, it's the first preseason. Steven is professional, he knows he was signed to play in January, not August.

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 Post subject: Re: Observations from the Bengals at Falcons
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:05 pm 
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Ok then, let me ask all of you... Do you feel that the Falcons are going to have a great year if the OL plays like it did last night? Do you think that at some point, someone is going to say, "Playoffs? You don't talk about playoffs."


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 Post subject: Re: Observations from the Bengals at Falcons
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:46 am 
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RobertAP wrote:
Do you feel that the Falcons are going to have a great year if the OL plays like it did last night? Do you think that at some point, someone is going to say, "Playoffs? You don't talk about playoffs."

Yes. What I saw from the Falcons OL is no different than what I saw from them in 2011 and 2012 and that didn't stop them from having great years. And someone might counter that the Falcons didn't have a great year in 2011, but that wasn't because the OL stunk, it was because the team lacked an offensive identity.

What is going to keep the Falcons out of the playoffs (potentially) are injuries, ones that prevent them from exploring that identity that they have since developed. And that identity centers on Matt Ryan and Julio Jones.

I don't understand what the concern is... The Bengals defense is probably going to be one of the 5-10 best in the league this year, and they had their 11 regular starters on the field vs. the Falcons starting offense (minus Dunlap). And the Falcons had no qualms moving the ball against them on that opening drive with Steven Jackson running at about 80%, and no Julio Jones and Tony Gonzalez on the field, and Roddy going half-speed as well.

And then on the 2nd series, Ryan missed Douglas on a catch that Julio would've made had he been there. And then on the 3rd series, Ryan was throwing to Drew Davis, Harry Douglas (a drop) and Chase Coffman twice. Of course they didn't move the ball!

"Ryan didn't trust his OL..."

Are you basing that statement that Ryan was checking down immediately? Because if that's the reason, then of course he was! It's a preseason game, don't sit there and hold the ball like it's a game that matters. Get rid of the ball and don't get hit.

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 Post subject: Re: Observations from the Bengals at Falcons
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:09 am 
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Pudge wrote
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I don't understand what the concern is... The Bengals defense is probably going to be one of the 5-10 best in the league this year, and they had their 11 regular starters on the field vs. the Falcons starting offense (minus Dunlap)


Well Pudge you usually separate the regular season from the playoffs and we were reminded that the Bengals first playoff game
they gave up 30 first downs and 400 yards through the air, and Texas basically kept the ball most of the day.

Look I don't need to look at individual play to know when you have
so many untested players at so many unclaimed positions; the odds just work against you.

There are a lot of people to be excited about; just too many positions open to believe that 80%
will come through. The guys who were not playing last night need blocking to catch their passes!!

Its not hitting the panic button; I've seen a lot of 6-10 season's
and I've lived to know what to look for!!

I'm really pulling for Peter Konz who says he feels like a different player at center. When you say Matt Ryan getting hurt would kill our chances; is that because any Qb can go down, or is it with
this untested Offensive line its just more likely?? I'm afraid with this line its just more likely.

Someone's opinion doesn't mean you don't hope and watch. Most here have very high expectations for our team; and in preseason we're usually worried about one important position,
or two or even three. Not 8-10!!

Yes and just for the record their are really important people IN ALL OF OUR LIVES and I don't associate doom with a Falcon Football season whatever it is. Not Doom!!

Robert, first the offensive line won't play like it did last night, it might be better or worse. We're trying to fill positions with people who have already played poorly like Reynolds, or Hawley;
or the guy that got hurt from Alabama....and other unproven players. Pudge; your expectations of our Offensive line must be different from mine, I do hope your right and I'm wrong.

I'm looking at the number of unsettled positions because our players have not been good enough to win these positions in earlier years; or for other reasons. As much as I like our two rookie corner backs its really not like we have a clue how they will really do when the season starts.......

Its just the odds of so much working out for us on the offensive line and defensive line,that this is a much better indicator of the odds of our season; than some players playing against a second team.

Look I'm going to tell it like I see it (unless asked to leave) which I shouldn't be; and if
what I'm saying today makes me look like an idiot in 8 weeks of the regular season, then call me an idiot or don't let me forget it all year!! Their are many calling for a Super Bowl with our offensive and I've never been this far away from everyone, and I have looked back 3 season's of posts.... (their funny)

BTW I don't ever consider a Super Bowl impossible until we're eliminated from the playoffs if in fact that happens in the season.

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 Post subject: Re: Observations from the Bengals at Falcons
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:12 am 
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I just don't see a lot of difference with this year's team than previous year's team. I'm not worried about the defense really. Last year, we had an untested Akeem Dent at MLB. This year we have Trufant at RCB. Robinson stunk for most of last year at RCB, so I'm not expecting it to be much of a downgrade. Now if Trufant pulls a Kareem Jackson and invents a new level of suckage this year, then I'll be concerned. But I think it's WAAAAAY too early to start having that sort of trepidation, which isn't really based off anything.

Ryan getting hurt is a real possibility. But IMHO, it's not any more real a possibility than it was the past 5 years. It's like what did people see last night that now has them shaking in their boots? Reynolds gave up a hurry to Geno Atkins. And Sam Baker gave up a hurry to Geno Atkins on a stunt. That's about it. Two hurries to the best interior pass rusher in the league. Holmes did fine in pass protection (partly because Dunlap wasn't in the game), but I'm not going to get worried about him unless Derrick Morgan rips him a new one in the 3rd preseason game. If next week, he gets ripped up by Suggs/Dumervil, then I'm not going to be that worried. What else would you expect? He's a 5th round talent, 2nd year player, that has 7 real snaps in the NFL (all of them as a run-blocking TE) going up against a pair of veteran DEs that have 150 career sacks and 8 Pro Bowls between them. Does it really make any sense to expect anything different?

But guess what, the OL stunk last year. Holmes is gonna struggle this year. He has to deal with Chris Long, Cameron Wake, and Chandler Jones in the first month of hte season, and they'll probably make him look bad.

But guess what people? Ryan still is only going to get sacked 25 or so times this year. The Falcons are going to adjust their protections and feature a lot of passes designed to get the ball out of RYan's hands quickly. Again, that is no different than what they did last year.

Look, as long as Ryan is healthy and throwing to Julio, Roddy, Tony, and feeding Jackson, I don't really care what the OL is. If we're talking Super Bowl, then it certainly matters that our OL stinks. If we're talking playoffs, then I'm not worried. Teams with bad OLs make the playoffs all the time, just see the 2011-12 Falcons, 2011-12 Packers, 2012 Colts, etc.

I just don't get the trepidation people have. Maybe it's because I don't sit around thinking about injuries. I'm aware that they can happen. And if asked, I don't like our depth at safety because of the eventual injury that is going to come to William Moore there. I wished we had tried harder to upgrade the backup QB situation for the exact scenario that is playing out this summer (Davis not being that good). I wished we had tried to upgrade the WR depth with another vertical option because of the potential of Jones getting hurt leaving our offense even less explosive than it already is because nobody outside Jones is capable of running more than 16 yards downfield. I wished we had signed Antoine Winfield, so we could have traded up to get Datone Jones instead of Trufant. I wished we had invested heavily into upgrading the RG position rather than simply hoping that Garrett Reynolds would suddenly morph into Harvey Dahl. I wished we hadn't reached on players like Lamar Holmes and Akeem Dent in recent drafts, and now are stuck trying to develop them in the hopes that they become above average starters, when in all likelihood they probably won't be.

I wish a great many things. But despite all these wishes, the Falcons generally tend to do well. And it's August. I'm not going to get all twisted up in a knot now. It's September thru January that I care about and frankly what matters, and I'll judge things then, and only then.

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 Post subject: Re: Observations from the Bengals at Falcons
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:34 am 
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I believe we have more untested positions this year than in the last 4 years....

I don't sit around worrying about it, I've just seen us with bad teams based on the same thinking I'm giving you now. Ryan may throw the ball away and not have 25 sacks; but a lost down is a lost down.


Look I don't need to look at individual play to know when you have
so many untested players at so many unclaimed positions; the odds just work against you. I haven't felt this way since before Chandler, so its been about 15 years!!

I'll start talking about good individual performances now and not be a downer.

Maybe it will all work out, I really do hope so!!

I think #19 should beat out Harry Douglas. He caught a T.D. pass last year and we quit using him. This year gives plenty of players chances to shine. Maybe with true
competition through preseason and 16 regular games; we'll find a couple of excellent extra players. We play the games to see what happens; and our skill positions on offense are about as good as anyone's!! That's worth being upbeat about!!

Plus Mike Smith will take responsibility for everything; and I believe players play better with this kind of coach!!

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