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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones trade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:36 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
I'm sorry Robert, but your argument is ridiculous.

The reason why you run out the clock is because for the final 40 minutes of that game, the Falcons D did not stop the 49ers once. So you're saying, the smart strategy is to try and and score as quickly as possible, giving the 49ers what 5 minutes to milk the clock. Given how our run D had performed all game, there's absolutely no way a competent coach thinks that San Fran gets the ball back up 28-27 and doesn't run out the clock.

Again, your saying not making that decision makes Smitty a bad coach. And it's ironic because that is possibly one of hte worst coaching decisions I've ever heard of.

The Falcons made the absolutely right decision to try and milk the clock down to as little as possible with the intent of scoring a TD. Then if there's only a minute left, then you are forcing SF to try and to move down the entire field to get into FG range just to send it into OT.

I'm sorry, for 85% of stuff we agree. But what you consider to be "good coaching" is some of the worst coaching I've ever heard of.



well let me ask you this: if it's Sean Payton on the sideline overseeing this team with all of it's flaws and weapons, do you honestly think he makes the same decisions Smitty made? I mean, the Saint D was the worst in the league. :whistle:

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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones trade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:11 pm 
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Look, your argument is apt in this light:

The Falcons have struggled throughout this year, and yes over the course of Smitty's tenure in the 3rd quarter. That's likely because they don't make great halftime adjustments. But part of that is also because they typically are up at halftime, and thus don't have to make major adjustments at halftime like their opponent. What Smitty & Co. have done well at however is after quarter 3, they usually adapt and adjust for the 4th quarter, which is why this team is typically so good in the 4th quarter.

These are coaching issues. It's safe to say that Mike Smith is not a great in-game adjuster. Is he a bad game manager? I don't think so. Sure, he makes some mistakes from time to time, and probably has made more in the past month than he has done at any point. But what typically happens, over the course of the entire 5 years, is that there are 3, 4, or 5 instances per year where he makes a bad game management call, and we blow them out of proportion because of how few they are. If you're telling me that on average, once a month Smitty is going to have the message boards/twitter blowing up with a bad decision, that's something I'm able to live with because I think relative to most teams that is fairly few instances. And IMO that's an area that is able to grow and develop and get better with time. It's no different than having a young QB.

And what you deem as a coaching issue is really a lack of execution issue. The Falcons were shut out in the 2nd half because of:

1. On their first drive, Ryan threw a pick. Bad execution.
2. On their 2nd drive, Ryan fumbled. Bad execution.

THose were their only 2 possessions of the third quarter.

3. Their next drive to open the 4th, they ran the right play, the problem was that Gonzo couldn't break the tackle on the out pattern and was a yard shy of the sticks on 3rd down. Bad execution.

4. Their next drive was the big drive at the end where they got the ball with 8 minutes to go. In your eyes, you think they should have scored quickly even if it meant settling for 3 points. Let's say that scenario plays out, and the Falcons had gotten a quick FG with about 5-6 minutes left. If you're down 28-27 and its the 49ers ball with that much time out, where you are WRONG is that by taking the quick 3 points, you have not increased your chances of winning the game by any degree. The FACT is that the D has not stopped the 49ers once since the 1st quarter besides a missed chip shot FG by Akers, and a flukey goalline fumble. At that point in the game, the 49ers had marched up and down the field on your defense at will for 40 straight minutes. The last stop you got was at the 2-minute mark in the 1st quarter.

If you're at the point with 8 minutes in the game, and considering how the game has been played up until that point, if you're Mike Smith or any competent NFL coach, you should realize that if you give the 49ers the ball back, they are going to score and you will lose. So when you get the ball with 8 minutes to go, your plan is to score 7 to put the game up 31-28. Anything less and you've screwed yourself over. You need 7 and hopefully leave as little time as possible for the 49ers to have in order to force them to march the length of the field in less than a minute, and have to kick a FG just to tie and send it into OT.

So one of your key arguments for why Smitty is a bad coach and deserves to be fired, is not an example of bad coaching, it's an example of GREAT coaching. And due to good coaching and execution the Falcons were able to bleed 7 minutes off the clock, and be in prime posiiton to score that TD. But then they didn't execute on those last 2 plays. Besides the ref for the no call on the PI/holding against Roddy, if I'm going to blame anyone it would be Ryan for not dialing Tony's number in either sitch.

If, you're looking for a scapegoat for last week's loss as far as coaches go, then the clear culprit is Mike Nolan, as his schemes put Stephen Nicholas and Thomas DeCoud among others on islands against Vernon Davis, a TE they couldn't cover.

If you're looking for a scapegoat for why Seattle came back, then you need to blame Koetter for his conservative play-calling. Mike Smith doesn't call plays. But to sit there and be upset because the Falcons decided to run the ball in that game is silly because that forgets that the Falcons ran for 130 yards in the 1st half. And the fact that their play-calling only got "too conservative" after Ryan threw a bad INT because he was too aggressive.

But let me reiterate, I'm not blaming Ryan, Nolan, or Koetter. Unlike some, I'm not looking for a scapegoat as to why the Falcons aren't in the Super Bowl. The flaws of this team have been known for months, and nothing that has occurred in the past 2 weeks has changed that.

fun gus wrote:
well let me ask you this: if it's Sean Payton on the sideline overseeing this team with all of it's flaws and weapons, do you honestly think he makes the same decisions Smitty made? I mean, the Saint D was the worst in the league.

Would it be different? Of course it would. They are different coaches. Payton has been accused over the years of being too aggressive, while Smitty too conservative. But is one better than the other? No, I can't say that. My personal preference is aggressive coaches. But I'm not going to say that's better. It's like political preference. I am a liberal, but is that better than conservatism? I like brunettes, but are they better than blondes?

But if you're suggesting that Sean Payton would have been better in that situation, I don't know if I agree. But even if I did, what's your point? If the argument is that Payton is a better coach than Mike Smith, I'm not going to really disagree with you there. The proof is in the pudding, just look at their head to head records. But again what is the point?

How is the any different than the arguments I've heard over the years about Ryan? When compared to Brees, Brady, Manning, Rodgers, etc. is Ryan inferior yes? But compared to Chandler, Fitzpatrick, Josh Freeman, Newton, Jeff Garcia, Rich Gannon, Culpepper, Vick, Romo, Kaepernick, Flacco, is he superior? Yes.

It's the same with Smitty. Is Belichick, Payton, the Harbaughs better? Sure. But Smitty IMO is on par with Mike Tomlin, Mike McCarthy, maybe a notch below Coughlin. Those are guys htat have won rings. Smith hasn't yet, but if you're asking me to rank the best coaches in the league sans-hardware, Smitty would be in the Top 5 if not Top 3.

The way I see it, if you have the 7th best guy out of 32, then you have no room to complain. If you have the 11th best guy out of 32, then you have no room to complain. It's not until you get down 17th, or 21st or whatever when you really now have room to complain.

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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones trade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:11 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
Look, your argument is apt in this light:

The Falcons have struggled throughout this year, and yes over the course of Smitty's tenure in the 3rd quarter. That's likely because they don't make great halftime adjustments..



http://espn.go.com/b...ame-old-falcons
For all the good the Falcons did this season (and they did at least get a playoff win against Seattle last week), they’re right back where they were at the start of the season. And the start of the season before that.

Go ahead and fire away with the same old questions and criticisms.

Smith is too nice to win the big ones. Ryan can win in the regular season, but not when it matters most.

It’s all valid. In fact, now the Falcons have firmly earned the right to be questioned and criticized from now until the day they win a Super Bowl -- if they ever do.

Put the blame on the coaches, and put the blame on Ryan. The Falcons scored 24 points in the first half and precisely zero in the second half. Ryan fumbled away a snap out of the shotgun formation and threw an interception. A team that prides itself on not making mistakes made plenty of them. There were the two personal fouls and repeated breakdowns on defense.

Let’s not forget what might have been the biggest issue of all.

"Covering the tight end," Smith said. "The tight end was an issue."

The tight end (Vernon Davis, who finished with five catches for 106 yards) was a huge issue, mainly because the Falcons inexplicably didn’t bother to cover him.

But let's forget the individual breakdowns for now. It’s time to start wondering if there’s a more systemic issue with the Falcons. Is there some inherent flaw with this personnel, with this coaching staff and with the way the Falcons do things?

They had everything: a ton of talent, an incredibly loud home crowd and a big early lead.

Yet the Falcons have squandered yet another postseason opportunity. After all the talk about how -- this time -- this team was really, truly different, it turns out the Falcons are nothing but the same old Falcons.

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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones trade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:30 pm 
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It's intersting that you did not post the entirety of that article by Mr. Yasinskas, linked to here: http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/post/_ ... ld-falcons

Because there is a key passage IMO that completely undermines his argument. Because it's something I don't agree with.

Pat Yasinskas wrote:
The three previous playoff losses during the era of Smith and quarterback Matt Ryan were bad, but this one was horrible.

This one showed, just when it looked like the Falcons were going to turn the corner and show the world they really aren’t postseason chokers, that's precisely who they are.

I didn’t hear a single coach or player try to sugarcoat this one, and that’s fitting because there truly was no excuse for this.

Look, I wrote back in mid-November about this subject: http://falcfans.com/super-bowl-or-bust- ... lcons-6665

And the accompanying thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17749&p=113243

I agree that this was the best good opportunity for the Falcons to get a ring in the near future. But I don't believe the Falcons choked. Sure, if you're going to define choking at its most basic level as having the opportunity to win and not winning. But this doesn't feel like the Broncos choking. The Broncos were what? 9 pt favorites over the Ravens. They got 2 ST TDs, and I looked it up and since the merger teams are 31-7 (81.6%) in games where they got 2 ST TDs during the regular season (it has never happened in the playoffs since 1970), and coupled with the questionable coaching decisions and Rahim Moore play, it really feels like a choke.

I don't think the same about the Falcons. They lost to a better team, as the 49ers were 4-point road favorites, one of 6 in recent NFL history in conf. championship games, and 5 of those 6 favorites wound up winning their games pretty handly.

The "excuse" is the Falcons lost to a better team. A notion that nobody outside the state of Georgia disagreed with.

Were there questionable coaching decisions in this game? No, despite what others say. Was there a flukey Rahim Moore-esque play? I guess the Ryan fumble was a flukey play. But so was the Crabtree fumble at the goalline, so it kind washes itself out. And as Barnwell suggested in his column, that Moore play had about a 200:1 odds. Did either of the botched snap or Crabtree fumble feel that flukey? No.

Same old Falcons? Same old Patriots I guess too, right. Because the Patriots have accomplished just as much since 2004 as the Falcons. Are they choke artists? No. Despite the fact that they lost two winnable Super Bowls against inferior team, and have a number of 1 & done playoff exits to other inferior teams.

I usually cut Pat some slack because he at least is better than D-Led, but this is one of the most clueless posts he's ever posted IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Julio Jones trade
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:55 pm 
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Quote:
They had everything: a ton of talent, an incredibly loud home crowd and a big early lead.


You need a decent defense to go to a Super Bowl; The Falcon defense is barely average.
Their Defensive Line Sucks, Its hard to accomplish much on defense without a good Defensive Line.

The 98 Defense led the league in sacks and still had 2- 1,000 yard receivers and a great
running game. I usually judge any Falcon team against that one to determine how far we should go.

Cyril Said:
Quote:
Saying this team has a ton a talent is just wrong!!
It has good talent at skill positions at Offense and a very average O-Line.

Games are still won in the trenches and that's where we had a fatal flaw!! Ryan was pressured the most, no running game, and no pressure on their Qb.

Coach Smith is a great coach that he keeps his teams together better than most coaches. Really he goes as far as any Coach with what he has. Matt Ryan's Post Season stats kinda suck compared to the regular season. I think he's still getting better!!

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