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 Post subject: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:13 am 
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:doh:

http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/pro-spor ... dui/nSDfk/

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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:23 am 
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Well its safe to say Turner has hit rock bottom since coming to Atlanta. Thanks for 4 great years Mike, but come on. I would suspend Edwards (not that it really matters) and Turner for a game based off their actions or at least bench them a half.

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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:24 am 
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We should just cut him now and go with Snelling, Quizz, and Antione Smith. Then we should kick the tires on Tim Hightower and Ryan Grant just to see how they look. Ideally this would have happened in during the preseason and Cedric Benson would have still been available.

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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:59 am 
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The comments over on PFT on this story are hilarious you have to check them out here are some of my favorites below:

-I bet a drunk Michael Turner could tear up a Waffle House menu at 3am.


“I like to call this guy ‘Road Rage’”

-Jon Gruden

True Story.

-Drunk maybe. But I have a hard time believing that he was doing anything fast.

-Sources in the APD say Turner was easy to spot as his car was missing its fastest gear and could only move forward 2 yards at a time.

-If he was speeding, he clearly did not have a football in his hands.

-They knew he was drunk because the cops saw there was open lanes available to him, but he chose to slowly mash up into the cars right in front of him instead…

-I bet his BAC was higher then his yards per carry

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:54 am 
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I was contemplating what value Turner had this morning on my way into the office (prior to learning about the DUII). I had come to the conclusion that at his current salary that Turner is more valuable getting dumped onto the free agent market or traded for a folding chair.

Then I heard about the DUII and pretty much cemented the worthlessness of Turner. I was hoping he could have a nice year with Atlanta... 1000 rushing and double digit touchdowns. Unfortunately, it takes this cat 3 attempts to get into the end zone from the 1 these days. Granted that isn't all Turner... Run blocking isn't all that special these days. But we need some effort from the running back too.

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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:03 pm 
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I bet his BAC was higher then his yards per carry

Best line out of them all, oh my god! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:06 pm 
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Unfortunately, his actions take away from a good win. It shifts the spotlight in the wrong direction and I'll say it....if Arthur Blank is embarrassed by this (and he should be) I can see Turner getting shown the door.

One problem....who totes the rock? Sorry ya'll, but Quizz and Snelling won't get it done on a consistent basis.


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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:12 pm 
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AngryJohnny51 wrote:
One problem....who totes the rock? Sorry ya'll, but Quizz and Snelling won't get it done on a consistent basis.


Because Turner has been so consistent...

Turner carries for 1 yard.
Turner carries for 1 yard.
Turner carries for -2 yards.
Turner carries for 0 yards.

If they aren't going to feed the rock to Turner 20+ times a game he has not value for the Falcons. He's a back that needs the carries to get into a rhythm.

It would seem that he might turn into a locker room cancer as well.

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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:13 pm 
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Cutting him gets us nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:40 pm 
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Isn't this the last year on his contract? You get no cap space, nobody was getting any yards last night, which is as much an indictment of the OLine and not the backs....why would you cut him?

Run him this year, let him take carries and take the wear, then let him walk and replace him with a young good back - they're a dime a dozen

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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:56 pm 
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Yulin wrote:
Isn't this the last year on his contract? You get no cap space, nobody was getting any yards last night, which is as much an indictment of the OLine and not the backs....why would you cut him?

Run him this year, let him take carries and take the wear, then let him walk and replace him with a young good back - they're a dime a dozen


He has one more year I believe, but he won't see it.


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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:20 pm 
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AJ51 is right, he does have one year left. And yes, you do free up cap space by cutting Turner. You can free up $2.5 million against this year's cap by cutting him.

But I don't think the Falcons should cut Turner over this. DUIs are stupid and idiotic. But I don't think you cut guys for being idiots (unless it's habitual), you cut guys because they aren't getting the job done. Sure, you can certainly say Turner is not getting the job done, but as I said many, many months ago, that has been apparent to anybody with eyes.

But if this is the catalyst that gets Turner booted, I'd be disappointed in this organization. The ends do not justify the means. You've never booted guys for DUIs in the past, and it would be a cheap cop-out to do that now.

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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:40 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
AJ51 is right, he does have one year left. And yes, you do free up cap space by cutting Turner. You can free up $2.5 million against this year's cap by cutting him.

But I don't think the Falcons should cut Turner over this. DUIs are stupid and idiotic. But I don't think you cut guys for being idiots (unless it's habitual), you cut guys because they aren't getting the job done. Sure, you can certainly say Turner is not getting the job done, but as I said many, many months ago, that has been apparent to anybody with eyes.

But if this is the catalyst that gets Turner booted, I'd be disappointed in this organization. The ends do not justify the means. You've never booted guys for DUIs in the past, and it would be a cheap cop-out to do that now.



I can think of 2.5 million NEW reasons to cut him, that has nothing to do with his DUI. The sad fact is, he is no longer an integral piece of this offense. In the offseason, he publically stated if he doesn't get 20 touches, not only won't he 'do well' he would not be 'happy' about it. Well, tough sh*t.

I wouldn't care if they cut him. It might actually be a net positive, because him off the roster also takes him outta the equation, thus speeding out transition to a 'pass' first offense.

stupid is as stupid does :?

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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:15 pm 
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28 carries for 74 yards. 2.6 ypc. 1 catch for 0 yards. 1 fumble, 1 drop.

If we were to cut him to clear some cap room, that would give us some freedom to make a trade if we wanted to. With a little over 3 million in cap space, we would have the room to assume some decent sized contracts.


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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:25 pm 
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RobertAP wrote:
28 carries for 74 yards. 2.6 ypc. 1 catch for 0 yards. 1 fumble, 1 drop.

If we were to cut him to clear some cap room, that would give us some freedom to make a trade if we wanted to. With a little over 3 million in cap space, we would have the room to assume some decent sized contracts.



I'll just answer for Pudge, because he is going to ( rightfully ) say if this is the way to go, we should have done it in the offseason, or at the minimum forced him to renegotiate and sign a smaller contract.

But, it is what it is.

I disagree that without Turner were completely 'screwed' because all we have is Snelling and Quizz. Lets just face some unhgappy facts: Turner is slow and fat. The OL we have is not desgined to help him. Turner 'needs' a fullback to even be mediocre. Turner cannot catch.

Snelling? Every year I hear about how 'he cant get it done', but everytime you ask him to 'do something', he generally does it. Quizz and Snelling do not require a fullback, so you put them out there with HD and that gives Matt more options then Turner + a fullback. Maybe we will actually see a RB screen this season. We threw what, 2 or 3 throws to our backs?

:?:

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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:29 pm 
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RobertAP wrote:
28 carries for 74 yards. 2.6 ypc. 1 catch for 0 yards. 1 fumble, 1 drop.

If we were to cut him to clear some cap room, that would give us some freedom to make a trade if we wanted to. With a little over 3 million in cap space, we would have the room to assume some decent sized contracts.


Don't take this so much as defending Turner, but more as calling out the offensive line. The comment was made that Turner is slow and fat.... hence 28 carries for 74 yards. 2.6 ypc.

Quizz Rogers is neither slow nor fat and his stat line reads 10 carries for 25 yards 2.5ypc.

Jason Snelling? 3 carries for 7 yards. 2.3 ypc.

Our new passing game is great, but at some point we are going to have to run the ball.


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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:26 pm 
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Give a brother a break. The arrest should have zip to do with what thye do with Turner. I do agree he does not seem to fit the O and I also agree that part of his lack of production is blocking. Best days are behind him but I see little benefit in cutting him this year. Cut his role? Sure.

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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:05 pm 
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I gotta agree with AJ51 here too. The line just isn't making holes.

But this is the position the Falcons put themselves into because they didn't invest in upgrading the O-line. Peter Konz and Lamar Holmes is not investing in the immediate future of the line. That's investing in the line 3 or so years down the road. This is what happens when you ignore the fact that your RB has been steadily declining each year.

It's almost been 364 days since I first compared Turner to Jamal Lewis and was labeled a "hater."

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16198&start=0&hilit=Jamal+Lewis

But to me it boils down to why are you actually cutting Turner...Are you cutting him because he's ineffective or are you cutting him because he got a DUI.

And if you're cutting him for being ineffective, then why aren't you cutting Quizz and Snelling, who have equally been ineffective as others have pointed out. Which tells you exactly why you're cutting him, because he got a DUI. But what is the value of cutting him?

Is it going to make your team better? No. Would you rather have Michael Turner or any of the top FAs available (Ryan Grant or Joseph Addai?). Grant may be better, but not by much. Would you rather have Turner your 3rd RB or Antone Smith? If you want to give Quizz and/or Snelling more opportunities, then you don't need to cut Turner to make that happen.

IMHO, I don't see what is different between this team cutting Michael Turner now and cutting Grady Jackson 5 years ago.

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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:25 am 
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I think I remember that Grady was leading the league at the moment he was cut,
for tackles in the backfield.

Petrino wanted him do something else and letting some other players make the plays.

Besides Petrino has a " no talking policy" while you ate (he really did) and Grady just
stood up and said "At my meals I'm going to eat and have conversation with my team mates. He was fired the next day!!

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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:21 am 
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Cyril wrote:
I think I remember that Grady was leading the league at the moment he was cut,
for tackles in the backfield.

Petrino wanted him do something else and letting some other players make the plays.

Besides Petrino has a " no talking policy" while you ate (he really did) and Grady just
stood up and said "At my meals I'm going to eat and have conversation with my team mates. He was fired the next day!!


not only that, but he went on the 2 Live Stews on the radio and said he was not 'freelancing', but he was not going to sit on his a$$...Plus, in the offseason that summer someone 'leaked' his physical and he sued the franchise~remember?

Pudge "I don't see what is different between this team cutting Michael Turner now and cutting Grady Jackson 5 years ago." :lol: :rofl:

Haters gotta hate. :naughty:

Grady Jackson was still playing at a decent level, and his 'great' backup the awesome Trey Lewis had not yet boarded the train to bustville!

You may be right about cutting Turner, but you have NEVER ever been correct in any of your prognostications about Gravy. Everrrr! 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:04 am 
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This is the first we've ever heard of this guy messing up. Cut him? No. He deserves better than that. Look at what he's done for this organization. He's the greatest RB in franchise history, don't try and tell me otherwise. I'd say a game suspension at most.

I do feel like he's on the decline though. We oughta be finding his replacement fast. But one minor incident in 4 seasons is not reason to scream "the sky is falling"

Bone-headed move though. I think that there are too many resources for any pro athlete to get caught in stuff like DUIs.

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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:54 am 
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Confess_Jesus_Now wrote:
This is the first we've ever heard of this guy messing up. Cut him? No. He deserves better than that. Look at what he's done for this organization. He's the greatest RB in franchise history, don't try and tell me otherwise. I'd say a game suspension at most.

I do feel like he's on the decline though. We oughta be finding his replacement fast. But one minor incident in 4 seasons is not reason to scream "the sky is falling"

Bone-headed move though. I think that there are too many resources for any pro athlete to get caught in stuff like DUIs.



coming into camp outta shape. Police called to his home because two of his 'baby mamas' got into it and golf clubs were involved. Turner has 7 kids with 5 baby mama's: and he is 'making it rain' at Magic City, on a short week after a won game in which he was not even contributing.( and please dont tell me he 'scored' a TD. Antione Smith could have ran it in on the one yard line.. :roll:

Now, Im not saying for these reasons alone, he should be 'cut'. But lets just say if we do get in the playoffs or the Superbowl, do we want another Eugene Robinson episode? Clearly, Turner is not 'smart' and is exactly the kind of idiot that would pull that sh*t. You got plenty of off-season time to 'party like a rockstar'. Come regular season: play the damn game and go the f*ck HOME after the game. And that goes for the longsnapper, the ST'er and the waterboy !

At the moment, Pudge is right in that there is no one we can get now that would be an upgrade or a lateral move for Turner. But that doesn't mean his role cannot be changed. We need to move to a RB by committee now. The reason Snelling and Quizz didn't pad thier stats is because they got the rock five times. There were only two RB screen passes. Turner still got 17 carries.

IMO, I should never ever EVER see Turner as the lone guy in the backfield showing 3WR sets. That should be Quizz, not Turner.

But I agree it's too late to cut bait. He won't be here next year, for sure. :up:

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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:57 am 
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Fun gus, you are really off the reservation on this one. Who cares if Turner was at a strip club? Tuesday is the players day off. He could have stayed out to 8 AM getting lap dances to celebrate a victory with teammates and/or friends all he wants, because he could sleep in the next day and not have to worry about it affecting his play.

The issue with the baby mama drama? That's not an issue! Eugene Robinson? Really? You're grabbing at straws.

Your reasons for why it's different than Grady Jackson is essentially this: "It's different because Petrino was an asshole."

That's not a reason why it's different. That is irrelevant. You've cited superficial differences between the two situations (radio interviews, really?)

The reason why it's the same as Grady Jackson is this, and this alone:

When Petrino cut Jackson it was because he was supposedly sending a message. A message that the players didn't quite get, and a number of them (led by DeAngelo Hall) saw it as the final straw and led a mutiny in the locker room. The players didn't get why the team was singling out Jackson of all people to be the one that got the axe.

Now on the field, it had ZERO impact because Jonathan Babineaux stepped up and was just as productive (if not more) in the latter half of 2007 than Jackson was in the first half.

How is this any different? It probably won't have any impact on the field because you can make a lateral move for a veteran FA running back correct? So what does it do to your locker room? It sends a message right? What message is that? One that the players understand? There is none. You're essentially cutting Turner for getting caught with a DUI on his off night. Why then did you not cut Eric Weems after his DUI? Why didn't you cut Babs for his drug possession? Why didn't you cut William Moore for his speeding tickets? Why didn't you cut Chris Owens after his domestic violence case? Why didn't you cut Verron Haynes for writing bad checks? Why didn't you cut Babs for killing a dog? Ojinnaka for beating up his girlfriend?

Lawyer Milloy had the same happen to him in '08, after Week 2, the night after a game he gets busted for speeding and DUI at 4 am. He didn't get cut. Michael Boley didn't get cut for beating up his wife. Daren Stone didn't get cut for his DUI.

The Falcons have had a long history of run-ins with the law over the past 4 years and never once did the team cut a player because of it. So why cut Turner now? If they did so, it would be completely disingenuous which is EXACTLY WHY IT IS THE SAME as the Grady Jackson move.

You're too focused on the irrelevant details of the situation in 2007 and now. Who cares what Petrino asked the players to do at mealtimes? Who cares if Turner was arrested? Who cares if Jackson went on the radio and gave an interview that he was playing hard? These things don't matter. The point is that in 2007 the Falcons basically made up a reason to cut Grady Jackson just for the sake of sending a message that the players NEVER received. And if the Falcons were to do the same to Turner now, and cut him it would be because they are making up a reason to do so to send a message to the players that they UNLIKELY to again receive.

See fun gus, I actually learned from being wrong about that Gravy situation 5 years ago. Did you?

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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:03 pm 
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If you wanted to cut Turner, you could have pulled the "He's no longer effective" card back in February/March. Because then you have 3 months to adjust to the void it created. If you cut him now, you have 3 days to adjust.

The players may not have liked Turner getting cut this off-season, but there would have been plenty of time for them to accept the move and move on as players are want to do. But now? There is no time for that.

If you wanted to cut Turner, you should have done it MONTHS ago. Now that the season has begun, he's basically untouchable. Or at least, his grievance has to be much more than a DUI on his off night. Unless the team found 77 pounds of marijuana in the door panels or he was found with an 12-year old white girl in his bed, then you're going to need way more than this to justify cutting him in that locker room.

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 Post subject: Re: slow, stupid, or both?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:13 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
The reason why it's the same as Grady Jackson is this, and this alone:

When Petrino cut Jackson it was because he was supposedly sending a message. A message that the players didn't quite get, and a number of them (led by DeAngelo Hall) saw it as the final straw and led a mutiny in the locker room. The players didn't get why the team was singling out Jackson of all people to be the one that got the axe.

Now on the field, it had ZERO impact because Jonathan Babineaux stepped up and was just as productive (if not more) in the latter half of 2007 than Jackson was in the first half.

How is this any different? It probably won't have any impact on the field because you can make a lateral move for a veteran FA running back correct? So what does it do to your locker room? It sends a message right? What message is that??



well, first Pudge I already stated we cant make a lateral move at this point, being as there is noone available that could come in, learn a whole new offense on the fly, and do better then what Turner can currently do. Right?

But, there's nothing stopping from spreading the carries and plays around to all three of our RB's, instead of mainly Turner. Which is why I went from 'I dont care if they cut him' to 'perhaps they should keep him but use him differently'. Make sense?

I disagree about Gravy. Petrino cut a guy who was contributing. Turner is not. Just because Babs stepped up does not make the decision to cut Gravy any 'better'. At the end of the day, it would have been wiser to keep them both. The thinking then was it was time to give the reins to Trey 'ouch I fell down the stairs again' Lewis. What I 'learned' from the Gravy experiment was not to believe what the FO was shovelin 8-)
Did you learn that too? :wink:

Now cutting Turner because he got a DUI ALONE would be wrong. Hell, cutting him for sucking AND getting a DUI is probably wrong, too. BUt I would not put too much stock in 'sending a message'. One thing that's true is during the regular season this team 'gets the message'.

Now, your right: Micheal Turner has every RIGHT to go out monday night and act a fool. I'm just sayin' in the past things like this usually bite us in the a$$. Guys who make stupid decisions over and over again rarely deliver great results. Maybe this will light a fire up under that rump. But Im not hopeful about it :ninja:

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