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I really hope to see DD get some playing time with the first team this pre-season. Redman is done... He's spent too much time with a clipboard in his hand these last few years. JPW is a deer in the headlights. DD actually looks like a capable QB at this point. Let's give him the opportunity to win that #2 or #3 job and send JPW packing.

I agree. Both Red and Dreamboat were nightmares. Davis should be our #2 and Redman our #3 and practice/scout squad QB. Cut JPW outright.

This at least tells Redman he's got competition. If Ryan goes down were screwed anyways, might as well make it entertaining.

Redman was sad last night! JPW had a few decent moments, but overall not impressive. Davis did not have the supporting cast to really show us what he has. TD, start shopping for a backup QB, 'cause if Ryan goes down, we are in deep s**t!

On a positive note, starters looked great on both sides of the ball for the most part! First quarter was a thing of beauty!

You have to admit, it would be pretty entertaining!

I don't know what Pudge was watching, but from what I saw, Davis was clearly better than Redman or the dreamboat last night. I am taking into account the fact that he was playing with, and against 3rd and 4th stringers. Granted, I was VERY surprised by this. I really wasn't expecting much from Davis... Matter of fact, when he came into the game, my initial thought was, "oh great, I thought it couldn't get any worse." But what I saw was completely different than what I was expecting. His composure and throws were considerably better than either of our other backup QBs.

Its only one game so I can't judge yet. I felt Davis looked lost though, if he's our number two good lord. JPW looked better and had some good moments throwing the ball.

Davis had many more good moments. Unfortunately, they were coupled with people who can't catch, people who coughed up the football, and a stupid holding penalty. However, that doesn't take away from the fact that Davis did his part.

Now, I don't want this to turn into, "RobertAP is all over Davis' nuts." That's not the case. I'm simply stating that Davis was the best of our backups last night. As such, I think that he needs to be given the opportunity to show what he can do with better players around him. Yes, it is only one preseason game, that's why I want to see what he can do with the 1st or 2nd stringers rather than the guys who are going to be cut in 2 weeks.

see, I thnk just the opposite. I thought the guy who is our #2 and has had real game time AND reps looked lost. Considering who he is/what he had to work with, Davis clearly looked better to me. I havent looked up the stats, tho. I thought the same as Robert 'oh snit, here we go'.

color me impressed. while I was joking about really makin him the #2 ( it would be fun to watch for awile )but I wouldn't be averse to dumping Redman AND JPW and maybe trying to get another vet off the scrap heap if Redman turns in another performance like he did last night next thursday...

And if you go back to 2009, you'd see that John Parker Wilson was more impressive than Redman in his first game as well.

Calm down, you're doing the same thing that people tend to do which is completely take one game out of context. Let's not completely reshuffle and revamp the depth chart because of a handful of series. If you think Davis looked better than the other two last night, fine, that's an acceptable observation/opinion. But again, let's not act like Davis is suddenly ready to be the No. 2 on a playoff-bound team just because he had 2 or 3 nice passes in a preseason game. Davis is going to have to do A LOT more than he did last night to merit moving up the depth chart.

2009?! By that time hadn't Redman exhibited his 'worth'? Cmon now. By then Redman had survived Petrino, and in week 12 of 2007 he came in for Sucky Harrington and secured a dramatic 'win', right? Beat out Byron and Shockley, and then had some 'good and bad games'? He was a proven commodity: but as TIME wears on, so does the talent.

The thought of JPW starting over Redman in 2009 was unheard of. We saw what Redman could do, and could not do... We have never 'seen' what JPW could do. We signed him because another team wanted to sign him, and he 'knows the system'..Not because of his talent.

At this point: with Ryan as a 5th year vet without being really 'injured' behind a truly sh*tty OL...I want a guy who thinks he is a starter in 2nd place. And if we give THAT slot away to Redman due to familiaririty is not good.

But, since that is REALITY, I still opt for Davis over Dreamboat. Because were f*cked anyways. At least with Vick we had Schaub and who was our 3rd back then? Redman is no Schaub. And if Ryan gets injured, I dont see Redman being how shall we say 'durable'. So if we got to the point where this season is in the hands of the third guy? Then I want it in Davis' hands, because at the very best it turns out like a Disney movie, but at the very worst it turns out like the SAW franchise. At that point, were not 'competitive', Blank has his prepared 'excuse' so lets just go balls deep and put it in the hands of Dirk and his Diggler.

That's exactly my point. As few may recall in a preseason opener against the Lions in 2009, Wilson was solid, Redman was mediocre, and Shockley was bad. Had people reacted then as they appear to be reacting now, then of course that means that an undrafted rookie like Wilson should have been moved into the No. 2 slot, Redman back to No. 3, and Shockley cut the next day. The situation as it stands today is no different than it was 3 years ago.

Look I went back and watched Davis in the preseason game, and color me unimpressed. He did move around and extend some plays with his legs, which I'm sure impressed the masses. But his athleticism was never really in question. Greg Cosell said it well on Yahoo! Sports podcast, the preseason is tailor-made for mobile QBs because the game moves too fast for them, they start to use their legs which gets the fans excited, but really isn't what you're looking for in a backup QB. Because of the limited reps you get as a non-starting QB in NFL practices during the regular season, it's imperative that a backup QB be able to play the position from the neck up rather than the neck down. Davis certainly isn't there. Wilson has shown he's not there. And I've never been impressed with Redman's "gray matter" either. But fortunately for us, Redman's longevity/experience means that he is at least functional upstairs, if only mediocre.

Davis also displayed a strong arm, again not a question about him coming out of ECU. He clearly has the strongest arm on the team.

But...... the big concerns about him coming out of school were his footwork/mechanics and accuracy. I saw some issues with that in his limited workload. His deep pass over the middle to LaMark Brown on his final series was a good example of bad mechanics/footwork. He didn't set his feet, the pass sailed on him and almost was intercepted. On his first series, his 2nd pass was an incomplete one to Marcus Jackson. It was an inaccurate pass. Jackson had a step on the CB and had outside position. Davis underthrew him and threw inside. This is a no-no, as Jackson had to slow up to make the catch in traffic, and the contact between him and the defender caused him to drop it.

Now I will say that despite all those things, Davis was probably still the most impressive of the 3 backups last night. But the idea that he is ready to take over the No. 2 position for any team in the NFL is probably one of the most asinine things I've read on this board in quite some time.

Now if you want to say that after last Thursday's performance, the idea that Davis spends a year on the practice squad, working on the scout team (particularly the weeks leading up to Eagles & Panther games), and being in the film room, and that if the Falcons have a wide open competition for the No. 2 and 3 spots next spring in OTAs, and that year he spent on the p-squad allows him to possibly maybe have learned enough that he is the anti-D.J. Shockley and actually improves over time, then OK, I'll buy that.

But that's about all the rope I'm willing to give you.

But you missed my point: three years ago we had a reason NOT to move LPW into the #2 slot. Because we hadnt seen Redman suck yet. Or, when he sucked in 2007, he would follow it up with a good outing.So we had no reason to do that.

But, it's three years later now, and we have seen Redman suck. Alot. We have seen JPW suck. I may be wrong, but we only signed him when it appeared another team was going to this offseason.

We ended up cutting DJ cause he stunk, too. If Redman and JPW dont show improvement this thursday, then gimme all that rope, because if were gonna have us a hangin', then I'd rather watch it go down in technicolor then just wait for the inevitable....

Wonder who is available out there on the scrap heap that would push Redman if we could jettison JPW?

You're right, in the summer of 2009, Redman had not proven to us how bad he was. Yesterday, in my head, I went over all of the good and bad things that Redman has shown us in limited work that is why he is not a good No. 2 QB (or better put, a below average No. 2 QB).

Good:
1. First appearance against the Rams in 2007
2. Strong performance against Seahawks backups in 2007 season finale
3. Strong performance against the Saints in 2009.

Bad:
1. Terrible first start on road vs. Bucs in 2007
2. Terrible preseason performance in 2008 when competing against Ryan
3. Struggles in final moments vs. Bucs in first appearance in 2009
4. Terrible outing against the Eagles in 2009
5. Terrible outing against the Bucs in season finale in 2011.

Since that close loss to the Saints in December 2009, Redman has done absolutely nothing positive. So again, I agree with your desires to move on. As you may recall fun gus, you and I were the only people that brought up this topic (of moving on from Redman) at the end of last season.

But at the same time, you have to understand at this point the Falcons have essentially made their bed. There were 5 QBs they had an opportunity to bring in this winter/spring that had experience in Koetter's offense, that could have made some headway to push Redman: Trent Edwards (signed with Eagles in February), Luke McCown (signed with Saints in June), David Garrard (signed with Dolphins in March), Todd Bouman (still available and terrible), and Andrew Walter (been in retirement since 2009, works at a bank). Not the most illustrious group. Now obviously, they didn't have to restrict themselves to only players that knew/operated the Koetter offense (since one could certainly argue the Koetter offense installed here in Atlanta is not the same he's installed in previous stints in J-ville & ASU).

The point being is that now we're in August. And it means that if you sign someone it has to be a veteran with a wealth of starting experience. Because now he's learning on the fly, and what could have been 4 months to learn an offense (had we signed him in the spring and brought him through OTAs), he'll now have to learn the offense in 4 weeks. Now that certainly is possible, we've seen it ourselves with Leftwich back in 2007. But the problem is that it usually doesn't reap positive results.

Had you addressed this situation in the spring, it was possible that the talent pool could have included players like Dennis Dixon, Brodie Croyle, Brian Brohm, JIm Sorgi, Troy Smith, Kyle Boller, or A.J. Feeley as possibilities that could push/replace Redman. Now, you're in a situation where you're probably only limited to Donovan McNabb or Mark Brunell, or maybe J.P. Losman simply because he's relatively well-versed in the no huddle concept from his days under Sam Wyche & Mularkey in Buffalo.

But does any of that sound like a fool-proof plan anymore? I advocated signing McNabb last December, but at this point in time with him having dabbled with being an analyst, and still holding up some hope that he gets another shot at being a starter, I don't really want him now. Mark Brunell hasn't really played at any competent level since 2006. And J.P. Losman, how different is he from Redman? Strong-armed, definitely more athletic, but also not known for his great mental makeup and decision making.

And right now, the only real option afforded to the Falcons is trading for Colt McCoy. How much are you willing to give up for him? You're likely going to be renting him for 2 years because the minute McCoy's contract expires after 2013, he's most likely going to walk. 7th? Yeah, most certainly. 5th? Now we're starting to get a bit tenuous aren't we? Starters have gone for that high.

But if you're going to go that route, then you need to get McCoy into the fold today with the idea that in 17 days in the preseaosn finale, he'll have gotten enough work in practice and the film room that you can give him extensive reps vs. Jacksonville. Because then that will be the last time in the foreseeable future that he will get a chance to run your offense and hopefully impress you enough that he can get the job done despite only having 2 weeks in your system.

Like I said, the Falcons have essentially made their bed with Redman, now they have to lie in it. The off-season is for all intents and purposes...over.

Ummm, you should never use the word "talent" in the same sentence with any one of those players you listed. Troy Smith? Really Pudge?

I figured AJ51, you'd be the one responding, criticizing the names I mentioned. I was in fact waiting for this. You are missing the point. It's not about the Falcons signing those specific players. I only used those examples because they are currently available players. There were also Jason Campbell, Kyle Orton, Chad Henne, Josh Beck, Rex Grossman, Brady Quinn, Dan Orlovsky, Vince Young, Shaun Hill, Drew Stanton, etc. that the Falcons could have gone after if they wanted to.

It's not about those specific players or anybody in particular. It's Thomas Dimitroff's prerogative to sign whomever he feels is the best. But there was a talent pool of viable backup QBs out there, that the Falcons could have brought in that at the very least could have raised the temperature in the QB meeting room by 4 degrees. And if that is all they did, apply some heat that would allowed Chris Redman to dig slightly below the surface to improve his play, then it would have been worthwhile. Nobody on this roster embodies complacency more than Chris Redman, who is happy to collect a paycheck from this team with no intention of ever trying to improve his own game. Redman has had 3 opportunities to test his value on the open market since joining the Falcons, and not once has he even attempted, happily and readily snapping up any contract that the Falcons have offered him.

There is a popular assumption among many in this fan base that Chris Redman is good enough to start for a number of other NFL teams. This is a bad assumption based entirely off my previous statement. He does not have the intangibles to be a starting QB in this league, and he has proved that time and time again. The fact that his play regressed last season is even more proof positive of this.

The point I made last winter, this spring, and currently making is that the Falcons had a perfect opportunity this off-season to try and upgrade the No. 2 QB position. People like Cyril said it didn't matter because it was not a priority. And he was right, it wasn't a priority, but it still should have been a goal. The hope 3 years ago when we first kept John Parker Wilson was that he would improve enough that a time would come where he would assume the No. 2 spot behind Ryan. His performance last summer showed that goal had not been reached and probably would never be. That coupled with Redman's shoddy performance in the season finale, meant that it was time for this organization to move on. With Redman being a free agent, and a new offensive coordinator, the time was perfect to move on. His experience amounted to nothing at this point because unlike before with Petrino and Mularkey, he didn't know this new offense.

But then of course, complacency reared its ugly head within this organization, and this team talked about making improvements this off-season, but have essentially brought back the same exact team as it had a year ago, essentially saying that all of the problems this team had a year ago had everything to do with 3 coaches: Mularkey, Van Gorder, and Boudreau.

They have fed this fanbase a plate of BS saying that there is really nothing wrong with the personnel. What you have in Atlanta, is the powers that be namely Thomas Dimitroff and Mike Smith doing their best to pass the buck on the shortcomings of the team.

Just like with the No. 4 WR position, it's not about signing Braylon Edwards, Lee Evans, Chad Johnson, or Jacoby Jones specifically. It's about identifying that you have an area of weakness, and finding someone to address it. Edwards was hurt, Evans just got cut because he can't separate, Johnson is a locker room question mark, and Jones hasn't had a good camp with Baltimore. It's not about those guys specifically, it's that you have a weakness at the No. 4 WR position, and you need to find someone to fill it. If one of those guys is not the guy, then find someone else. It could be Cole Magner for Pete's sake, the point is being cognizant that you have an area of weakness and addressing it.

The same applies to the No. 2 QB position. I don't care who they sign, but as long as it signals that they recognize and understand they have a weakness there and they at least make an attempt to address it.

But by not doing that, it is the very definition of complacency:
marked by self-satisfaction especially when accompanied by unawareness of actual dangers or deficiencies (Merriam-Webster)

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_ ... akes-sense

Schefter: McCoy to Packers makes sense
August, 13, 2012
Aug 13
1:15
PM ET
By Jamison Hensley | ESPN.com

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A day after the Green Bay Packers signed former Bengals running back Cedric Benson, ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter believes the Packers should look at the AFC North to fill another need: backup quarterback.

In his weekly mailbag, Schefter sees Browns quarterback Colt McCoy as a good fit for Green Bay. The Browns can trade McCoy because they have Seneca Wallace on the roster, and the Packers need an experienced backup to Aaron Rodgers.

This is what Schefter had to say about the potential of McCoy going to Green Bay:

If I were the Packers, I'd be on the phone right now, offering a fifth-round pick to the Cleveland Browns for Colt McCoy, who some teams around the league really like. Cleveland would be willing to deal McCoy for the right price, no matter what it says, and the Packers could use McCoy as much as any team in the league right about now. He would be great insurance for Rodgers and give the Packers the type of backup they would need to sustain their playoff hopes in the event of an injury. I liked the Benson move -- a low-risk move that upgrades Green Bay's backfield. Benson has produced more than people realize. He can do the same for the Packers. But if I were with the Packers, landing McCoy would have me feeling better about the upcoming season.


I've said repeatedly that I would keep McCoy as the backup. He's a cheaper alternative to Wallace, who's scheduled to make $2.4 million this season. He's younger than Wallace. And he has just as much starting experience as Wallace after last season. But, if the offer was a fifth-round pick, it makes sense to trade McCoy for that level of compensation.

I feel like I've been seduced. I may need to call the authorities.
I guess I feel the need to question your seemingly endless knowledge of football. It seems more than a few drink your kool-aid here and take your word as gospel. I do get your point, believe it or not, but not one of the QB's you mentioned (Dennis Dixon, Brodie Croyle, Brian Brohm, JIm Sorgi, Troy Smith, Kyle Boller, or A.J. Feeley ) is better than Redman. They are all equally s***ty. There are crappy back-ups out there for sure and Redman certainly isn't head and shoulders above the rest , but he also isn't head and shoulders below them either. Dropping Redman for one of them is like trading in your used Ford Fiesta for a used Chevy Malibu. They get you from point A to point B, they drive okay, but neither one will get you laid.

In your glass is half empty view on management here, that means they are being complacent. In the glass is half full camp, we have a guy here who is familiar with the players coaches and scheme who can be plugged in for a game or two if needed.

You're down on management and that is your right to be. But I don't think they are as clueless as you try to get your minions to believe.

yeah, because all we do here is fellate Pudge and agree with him Heaven forbid one or two guys who post here 'agree' with his views because we may have come to them as a result of our own conclusions, and all.

Hey we had Matt Schaub as Vick's backup. That was the solution. Even when we got the 'wunderkind' ( Vick ) we secured a hungry, reliable backup:right? Redman was hungry, was reliable until the past two seasons. Redman has shown he doesn't study film anymore, he doesn't put in the 'effort' he used to. It really doesnt matter if you trade in your Fiesta for a Malibu if they both break down you dont get 'laid' anyways...

We has a chance to trade in a 'clunker' and we didn't because of familiarity. Redman didn't even sniff the market. He sold insurance: he knows the odds.

I'm not necessarily saying just outright dump Redman for one of those guys I mentioned. If you were going to dump Redman back in March, it should have been for someone like Rex Grossman, Jason Campbell, or Kyle Orton. I'm talking about bringing in someone that is a bit more pro-ready than Dominique Davis to push Redman. If Redman beats them out in camp, then that's wonderful. At least we made Redman break a minor sweat. That's all I'm really talking about. At a minimum that should have been the goal of the Falcons this off-season.

And I'm flattered AJ51, that you think I have endless football knowledge and the charisma to provoke a cult of personality here.

I think it depends on what we see this thursday. For all we know Redman and JPW aren't living under a rock, and understand that of the backups last time out, the #4 guy looked better then them. Now maybe that lit a fire. Maybe this week they are really getting focused, doing the things they need to to be a reliable backup QB. If I see improvement, then I'll lean more to the AJ51 school of thought.

BUt if I see the same thing I saw last week, then we simple have been absolutely complacent, and Pudge is right. I dont subscribe to the 'hey were better then most, and better then we were'' philosophy put forth by AJ51. I want my team to always be doing the things that make them consitantly better. As I;ve said before, I will say it again:

This is the last year for any 'excuses'. It cant be the players, the team already told us were fine right there. So it cant be the coaching, because we got three shiny new toys there. Were bound to see a 'vast improvement', right? If not the finger points directly at TD and Smitty. NO more excuses.

What happens if ( and I doubt this will happen ) Davis DOES get a little more time this thursday and has another good game? And JPW stinks again:would he then be able to replace him , or would this staff keep JPW as the 3# 'because he 'knows the playbook'?

I don't think the team is going to keep either one, Davis or Wilson. Not unless they really shine the rest of the preseason, and the fear becomes they might not clear waivers. But I don't see the point of keeping them on the roster, since neither look like they are going to be ready to take over the No. 2 spot for Redman anytime soon. Davis is a long-term project. With his issues in terms of footwork/mechanics and accuracy, it's going to be a number of years before you can really trust him as the No. 2 QB. If you want a strong-armed, athletic QB that struggles to throw from the pocket to be your No. 2, then go out and get Troy Smith.

The best you're hoping for with Davis is he turns into another Anthony Wright. Who after spending his rookie season as the No. 4 QB with the Steelers, and actually started 5 games over the next 2 seasons with Dallas. But those were on some 5-11 Cowboys teams (posting a 1-4 record). Then he signed with Baltimore, and in 2003, he stepped in for an injured Kyle Boller, went 5-2 as a starter down the stretch and kept the Ravens playoff hopes alive. Wright was the same type of player that Davis was coming out, athletic, strong-armed, but inaccurate and erratic from the pocket. It took until Wright's 5th year in the league before he could be trusted as a backup. Now hopefully Davis can do it by his 3rd year. But before then, it's not going to happen.

IMO, what should happen is Redman can be the No. 2. Wilson can get cut, and Davis can go on the practice squad, and people can fawn all over him like they use to with D.J. Shockley, and more than likely a year or two down the road the situation will end the exact same way.

I need to clear up my stance on this situation. I am all for ANYTHING that helps improve this team. But I'm of the believe that lateral moves aren't the answer. Dumping Redman for any of the QB's mentioned is a lateral move. Maybe even a step backwards. How does that help?

Now I do believe that there will be some talent cut by other teams at the QB position and that the Falcons should definitely look at when the time comes. Will that person unseat Redman? Probably not, but they can take Davis or Wilson's spot, learn the ropes and step in for Redman next year. Some will cry "complacency", this should have been done already....and that is a valid point. But obviously the brass thinks Redman can spot start and keep us competitive...as I believe he can as well.

I kinda blew past all that back and forth. If DD is our #2, and Ryan goes down, we're staring a top 10 pick in the face next year. Depressing when we coulda had Orton/Campbell, or even McCoy doesn't sound awful now (although I don't know if he fits our scheme).

Gotta remember too, we were pretty close on cap space.....I know, I know, TD has to manage the cap better.


Redman - 2012 cap hit - 825,000
Orton - 2012 cap hit - 2,566,667 2013 cap hit - 3,016,667 2014 cap hit- 4,916,667
Campbell - 2012 cap hit 3,500,00