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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:37 pm 
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Fun gus, I was speaking to the dynamic of having a secondary that features Asante-Dunta-Franks as opposed to a secondary that features Grimes-Dunta-Franks at cornerback. The former isn't significantly better than the latter. Or rather the first trio isn't taking huge leaps forward than the second one. Just like Dunta is just a better version of Chris Houston, Asante is just a better version of Grimes. But the gap between Asante & Grimes at this point is probably closer than where the gap between Robinson and Houston was in 2010.

And I'll certainly say that the trio of Grimes-Asante-Dunta is better than any of the trios I mentioned above. But I can't say definitively how much better it will be. By a huge degree, or by a slight degree? And even if it's a slight degree, based on what we gave up (a 6th round pick), then it's a low-risk, high-reward proposition. So I applaud the Falcons for that. But what are the more far-reaching consequences if it doesn't work out?...

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:55 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
But if you keep all three players (Grimes, Dunta, & Samuel), someone is going to have to play in the slot. And if they are not good in the slot. Let's say for instance, you move Grimes to the slot. And he is a significantly diminished player, and the dropoff from that player today in the current role to them in the slot role, could essentially cancel any improvement that Samuel adds.

So if Option B is to dump either Grimes or Dunta, and from what I understand Dunta's restructured deal is such that it means he's unlikely to be dumped, and given that Grimes is playing under a 1-yr. franchise tender, makes him a lot easier to move. So if you just wind up swapping Grimes for Samuel, what have you really done? Samuel is better than Grimes, but not by a huge degree. You're basically talking about dumping the 9th best corner in the league for the 3rd best corner in the league, as compared to if you were getting rid of Dunta (say the 30th bester corner).


Touché Mr. Buzzkill, I'd like to think that the Falcon brass has plans on keeping all 3 and making it work without getting the Falcons into cap space hot water.

I've read a few articles since the advent of this deal this morning and all indicate Nolan likes to run packages with extra corners. If this is true and the Falcons figure out a way to hang on to all 3 then Nolan just got an excellent weapon in his arsenal.

I must admit... All this coinciding with Grimes running in and signing his tender lends one to believe that Grimes might be on the way out the door.

At least the draft got interesting for Atlanta with the potential of a corner being in play for picks.

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:26 pm 
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I think this is insurance. Maybe they'll trade one this year. More likely, they'll keep all three, knowing they can cut Dunta next year with no cap consequences and still have two legit corners, or they can hardline with Grimes and still have two legit corners.

It gives them a lot of leverage for next year, particularly if any of the young guys start to become legitimate. It lets them try out a lot of corners in Nolan's system and still have options next year.


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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:08 pm 
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takeitdown wrote:
I think this is insurance. Maybe they'll trade one this year. More likely, they'll keep all three, knowing they can cut Dunta next year with no cap consequences and still have two legit corners, or they can hardline with Grimes and still have two legit corners.

It gives them a lot of leverage for next year, particularly if any of the young guys start to become legitimate. It lets them try out a lot of corners in Nolan's system and still have options next year.


More leverage for this year... Next year Grimes is an unrestricted free agent and doesn't haven't to play chicken with the Falcons.

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:36 am 
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dirtybirdnw wrote:
takeitdown wrote:
I think this is insurance. Maybe they'll trade one this year. More likely, they'll keep all three, knowing they can cut Dunta next year with no cap consequences and still have two legit corners, or they can hardline with Grimes and still have two legit corners.

It gives them a lot of leverage for next year, particularly if any of the young guys start to become legitimate. It lets them try out a lot of corners in Nolan's system and still have options next year.


More leverage for this year... Next year Grimes is an unrestricted free agent and doesn't haven't to play chicken with the Falcons.


Yeah. I guess I'm saying it gives them insurance from overpaying or keeping a guy because they feel they have to. But you're right, it would have to be done inseason instead of post as I was thinking.


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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:30 am 
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Hard to fully fathom team finance ramifications, cap, etc. from where we sit but it has been an eternity--or perhaps never--since the Falcons have had DBs of this quality. Ambrose and Buchanan were quite solid and Tim McKyer and Deoin were not bad. Still, it hearkens back to the day where we seemed to forever be acquiring the more periphery high dollar/high flash position players and getting away from the "players closest to the ball" concept. It will help mask our anemic pass rush but a quick adding up of CBs' salaries in my head seems to gobble up a truly disproportionate amount of the budget. Are they all going to be roughly in the $7-10 million per season realm?

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:38 am 
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dirtybirdnw wrote:
More leverage for this year... Next year Grimes is an unrestricted free agent and doesn't haven't to play chicken with the Falcons.

I'd hate for that to be the strategy behind this move. Which basically means this team is willing to commit long-term to Dunta Robinson, but not Brent Grimes??

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:44 pm 
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We only gave a 7th..... Don't worry about the strategy we have no clue was it is!! Lets celebrate we made a good move;
or it should be; now I have some pass rusher on my radar; we'll have no choice but to get rid of Turner if Thomas D. is taking all my faxes(:

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:05 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
dirtybirdnw wrote:
More leverage for this year... Next year Grimes is an unrestricted free agent and doesn't haven't to play chicken with the Falcons.

I'd hate for that to be the strategy behind this move. Which basically means this team is willing to commit long-term to Dunta Robinson, but not Brent Grimes??



well, if Grimes held out, then yes, Id rather have Dunta. Since the article came out, you have never accepted the fact it might be true. Im not sure, but if it is? F*ck Brent Grimes.

No excuses.

For the record, I'm leaning your way, that it's not true, but dont immediately discount it emotionally. :snooty:

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:12 pm 
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You're right fun gus, I don't believe the article is true at all, and therefore have put little credence into it.

But even if I were to buy it and get on the F*ck BG bandwagon, then the way the Falcons have proceeded to handle that situation is a poor method. If you're going to say F BG, then why tag him in the first place? Of course, you wan to get something for nothing, but if you don't want any part of the guy, then tagging him and being forced to eat $10.6 million cap hit is not an ideal option.

But even then, if you tag him fully intent on trading him, then why aren't you actively shopping him at the beginning of March, when teams are more willing to bite because they have money to spend? Now, the market is significantly less than what it was because some of the CB-needy teams have already spent money (e.g. St. Louis, Denver, Tampa Bay, Dallas, Jacksonville), and thus will probably be much less willing to negotiate the long-term deal with Grimes that would likely be required to facilitate a trade, and several other CB needy teams who haven't spent, have already gone out and signed a number of low-level veterans fully intending to finish the job in the draft if need be (e.g. Chicago, Minnesota, etc.)

Strike while the iron is hot, and that iron is considerably cool at this point in regards to Brent Grimes. Now that you've dealt a #7 for Asante, do you think another team is going to jump at the chance to deal a #2 or #3 for Grimes now?

The core issue for me is even if you think Brent Grimes is a piece of crap, that this team is subsequently committing to a lesser player in Robinson simply because they are unable to admit the mistake that they overpaid him. You have this festering piece of animal dung already in your locker room in Robinson, yet you're ignoring that because you're completely involved in getting rid of another piece of dung in Brent Grimes. And after you've gotten rid of Grimes, you walk back into the locker room and are shocked to discover that the s*** smell is still lingering. If you're in the business of shoveling s***, then shovel all of it right out the door. :shock:

So you say Brent Grimes (allegedly) did something that means he deserves to be kicked to the curb. Ok, fine. So it begs the question, what has Dunta Robinson done that means he deserves to stay? OK, so Dunta is apparently the lesser of the two evils. But this is football, there shouldn't ANY evils.

:whistle:

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:57 pm 
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Pudge your last post are my setiments exactly. Dunta makes a ton and for what? Grimes has made crap and has been putting up results for years. I still can't fathom that Grimes would sit out a playoff game to make a point? Anyways I hope the front office plans on keeping all 3. The potential to have one of the best secondary's in football is awesome!!! :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:13 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
You're right fun gus, I don't believe the article is true at all, and therefore have put little credence into it.


So you say Brent Grimes (allegedly) did something that means he deserves to be kicked to the curb. Ok, fine. So it begs the question, what has Dunta Robinson done that means he deserves to stay? OK, so Dunta is apparently the lesser of the two evils. But this is football, there shouldn't ANY evils.

:whistle:


No, Im saying if the article is 'true' then everything makes sense except actively trying to move him earlier. I dont know one way or the other. I'm leaning towards Grimes side, but Im not totally discounting it either.

I guess one reason they did not move him earlier and tagged him is that they did not 'know' that Asante was going to be available ( for a 7th!!!robbery), so they kept around thier 'best option'.

As for Dunta, I agree. But Im hoping Nolan can do something with this turd. Thats all I have to cling to at this point 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: asante?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:32 pm 
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Oh, they've known Asante would be available. It's been well known he was on the market since August. For a 7th round pick? Yeah, they probably didn't know that.

But I'm just saying from a logical standpoint. If the Falcons were pissed at Grimes way back in January for his (alleged) actions, then why are they taking their sweet ass time to move on from him.

And I guess the question I have fun gus, is Dunta really the lesser of the two evils. Grimes is (allegedly) a bad locker room guy, but is balling on the field for 2 years. And Dunta, whatever he is in the locker room, has gone from decent in 2010 to bad in 2011, and is making the big bucks.

And so for me, whatever you think of Grimes, and whatever you think happened during the week leading up to the Giants game, if the Falcons brass factor all that in and come away thinking Dunta Robinson, this guy who has been paid $9.5 million/yr. and has not come close to performing to that level on the field, and this other guy across from him who has clearly outclassed him ever since he joined the team, and so if you come away thinking, "We need to get rid of Grimes," then you need to also show Dunta the door too.

You know what this reminds me of. Think back to Ed Hartwell, and I could argue that Dunta is the biggest FA miss we've made since Hartwell. And then think back to Michael Boley. And with Boley we had a similar situation, where over the course of the entire 2008 season, Boley didn't really seem committed. It was just one game, it was an entire season. And imagine a scenario where Hartwell was still on that team, and then Boley is a free agent at the end of that year. And the team decides to let Boley walk which given the circumstances is understandable, but then at the same time to say, "Well let's keep Ed Hartwell."

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