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 Post subject: Our Free agent From Clemson is going to be very Special!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:36 am 
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Palmer was the only free agent to make this team from day one and he's going to be a great tight end!!

His blocking has passed all expectations and he caught his first pro pass last week and his first professional Td. this week.
The kid is getting more and more playing time.

He broke all off Clemson's records but I don't think the NFL has ever drafted anyone from Clemson.
I see him replacing Tony G. slowly and catching about 50 a year..... They were never worried about his catching, it was
his blocking that has let him make the team...... Now his receiving will show his skills.

We've gotten use to tight ends making Tds when Jenkins and Douglas can't!! Palmer will be the perfect replacement for Gonzo when the time comes. He played a lot today and made some good blocks with his Td.

Another great move by Thomas D.

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 Post subject: Re: Our Free agent From Clemson is going to be very Special!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:29 pm 
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A great tight end? If Justin Peelle is a great tight end, then yeah you're right. :lol:

But Palmer has played better than I expected this year, especially in Peelle's absence, so I've warmed up to him. I think Keith Zinger was a much better blocker than people gave him credit for, but he couldn't catch a cold. And in the No. 3 tight end role, blocking was 99.9% of what you did, so the fact that Palmer could catch didn't really mean much to me. But the No. 2 tight end has a bit more room to make plays in the pass. So Palmer's skills work well with Peelle out of the lineup.

I think his upside will be to be like a Peelle, and a No. 2 tight end that can block and catch, although probably not as good as Peelle. It's hard for me to see him having a decade-long career like Peelle practically has, but if he can stick for 4-5 years, that would be very, very good for an undrafted free agent, and certainly not out of the realm of possibilities.

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 Post subject: Re: Our Free agent From Clemson is going to be very Special!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:32 pm 
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Face it, Pudge, you hate Clemson players. :evil:

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 Post subject: Re: Our Free agent From Clemson is going to be very Special!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:41 pm 
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I don't hate them, I've just been duped by their good athletes way too many times to no longer give them the benefit of the doubt. But maybe things are a changing. Maybe guys like C.J. Spiller, Chris Clemons, Palmer, Jacoby Ford, and Kavell Connor mean that the days of practically every Clemson player being a bust is over. I mean you gotta admit, outside Brian Dawkins, Trevor Pryce, and Leroy Hill, they haven't produced a good NFL player since the early 90s. Given all the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks used on their players since then that is a travesty.

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 Post subject: Re: Our Free agent From Clemson is going to be very Special!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:49 pm 
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How about Charlie Whitehurst? Uh...never mind.

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 Post subject: Re: Our Free agent From Clemson is going to be very Special!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:55 pm 
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I like the way that Palmer catches the ball. He seems to have very good hands. The same is true for Meier. I really like the receivers that TD has been bringing in. Though I hope that if we bring in more next year, some of them have some speed. hehe.


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 Post subject: Re: Our Free agent From Clemson is going to be very Special!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:02 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
I think Keith Zinger was a much better blocker than people gave him credit for, but he couldn't catch a cold. And in the No. 3 tight end role, blocking was 99.9% of what you did, so the fact that Palmer could catch didn't really mean much to me.

This is something that still nags me. What is the point of having a TE, who is smaller than an OL with no hands to speak of? Why not just use an OT lined up at TE if that is the case?

For me, Zinger had zero value. He could block, but thats it. With Palmer, we would have insurance in case of a more valuable player being knocked out to injury. I was worried about his blocking ability, and it showed in the first game against Pittsburgh, but the only reason a third string TE is in the game is to run the ball so why not just use a tackle?

Either way, I'm glad my belief that Palmer had upside wasn't in vain. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Our Free agent From Clemson is going to be very Special!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:38 pm 
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Yes Palmer is going to be great..... So much better than Justin Peelle thats Peelle is just a joke. I told you this two weeks ago but you were still hyping Jamaal, Douglas & C. Davis. Palmer is going to catch some more clutch Tds. Without his catch we lose (was that on fourth down?) He played a lot Sunday....and was very good.

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 Post subject: Re: Our Free agent From Clemson is going to be very Special!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:23 am 
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You act like Justin Peelle doesn't make the same plays. Is Palmer's TD catch Sunday any more clutch than the 4 touchdowns Peelle has caught in his Falcon career? No, not really.

You act like Peelle doesn't have soft hands either. Peelle has very good hands. He is a capable blocker that at least through the early part of the '09 season was blocking on a level at least 10 times higher than what Palmer is putting out currently.

That 15-yard grab vs. the Browns by Peelle was just as "money" or "clutch" as Palmer's was yesterday.

I'm not trying to sound like Palmer is nothing. But you act Cyril like he is going to be the replacement for Tony Gonzalez and catching 50+ passes per year. I hate to burst your bubble, he's not. There was a reason why he was undrafted, and there's a good possibility that if Colin Peek had not gotten hurt, he may not be a Falcon today.

Just like Peelle did 8 years ago, Palmer projects well as a backup tight end. I think he'll contribute to this team. But if you think that Palmer is going to be dramatically better than what Justin Peelle has been the past 2.5 years, either you vastly overestimate Palmer's skill, or are underestimating Peelle's.

There is nothing "special" about Palmer. He's a nice player, but there are a dozen or players like him that enter the league every year: tight ends with good hands and above average blockers, that don't have the speed or athleticism to be more than the fourth best option on a given pass play.

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 Post subject: Re: Our Free agent From Clemson is going to be very Special!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:11 pm 
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In re-watching the game, there was nothing "clutch" about Palmer's touchdown catch. He was wide open. In fact, his other reception he caught in this game, he was wide open. And now that I think about it, I think all of his catches this year have come when he was wide open.

I'm not knocking Palmer. He's played well given he's a rookie, and has showed steady improvement over the course of this year. But let's not pretend that he's more than J.A.G.

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 Post subject: Re: Our Free agent From Clemson is going to be very Special!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:27 pm 
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Pudge is always hard on players... :snooty:

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 Post subject: Re: Our Free agent From Clemson is going to be very Special!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:36 pm 
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Confess_Jesus_Now wrote:
Pudge is always hard on players... :snooty:


He is Tom Coughlin's long lost son, didn't you know? Pudge is as strict as a 60 year old nun.

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 Post subject: Re: Our Free agent From Clemson is going to be very Special!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:30 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
In re-watching the game, there was nothing "clutch" about Palmer's touchdown catch. He was wide open. In fact, his other reception he caught in this game, he was wide open. And now that I think about it, I think all of his catches this year have come when he was wide open.

I'm not knocking Palmer. He's played well given he's a rookie, and has showed steady improvement over the course of this year. But let's not pretend that he's more than J.A.G.

He sure gets wide open a lot for JAG. :whistle:

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 Post subject: Re: Our Free agent From Clemson is going to be very Special!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:32 pm 
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He gets wide open because nobody covers him. They are too busy doubling Gonzo or Roddy. It was the same thing with Finneran and Booker last year. Most of their catches came when they were facing the zone. Otherwise, they didn't have the skills to consistently beat man coverage. Palmer does not either. Neither does Peelle for that matter, which is why he is a career backup, and why Palmer will be as well.

If he can continue to make strides as a blocker, he can be a valuable role player for the Falcons. But there is nothing "special" about him, all one has to do is look at his 4 receptions, and see in ALL four instances he was uncovered, which is why he was wide open, not because he got open by separating from a defender. Every tight end that is collecting an NFL paycheck should be able to catch the ball when he's wide open. And one of the reasons why Keith Zinger no longer collects an NFL paycheck is because he couldn't. :wink:

http://gamerewind.nfl.com/nflgr/game?id ... e_Clip_nfl

http://gamerewind.nfl.com/nflgr/game?id ... e_Clip_nfl

http://gamerewind.nfl.com/nflgr/game?id ... e_Clip_nfl

http://gamerewind.nfl.com/nflgr/game?id ... e_Clip_nfl

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 Post subject: Re: Our Free agent From Clemson is going to be very Special!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:47 pm 
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Jeez its a shame he gets wide open? I'll go with my predictions vs. yours any day of the week.

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 Post subject: Re: Our Free agent From Clemson is going to be very Special!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:58 pm 
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What Pudge said is absolutely correct. But that's what makes our team so darn hard to defend and why I've said that we need to run more single back sets. If you put White, Turner, and Gonzo on the field at the same time, teams have to account for them. This leaves the other guys, like Jenkins, Douglas, and Palmer free to make plays. Douglas has been blowing his opportunities. If the guy can get over the dropsies, he's going to be a very dangerous weapon for us. Roddy has gone through the dropsies before. He actually left a couple of plays on the field yesterday as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Our Free agent From Clemson is going to be very Special!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:52 pm 
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That's not what I was saying...... Palmer IMO will be a very good tight end one day..... Many players need
breaks to showcase their talents. Pudge said " their was a reason Palmer didn't get drafted" and I'm saying
"their's a reason he's made this team as a free agent"!!

He's a rookie so it won't be tomorrow. Palmer has a big upside while Peelle was getting old. Their's no reason
to debate this further its just I believe Palmer will be everything Pudge says he won't be. Its a prediction.

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 Post subject: Re: Our Free agent From Clemson is going to be very Special!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:45 pm 
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I like what I've seen from Palmer as well. But the reason that he's having success at this point is because he's drawing the least attention from the defense. That he's making plays certainly bodes well for him.


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 Post subject: Re: Our Free agent From Clemson is going to be very Special!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:53 pm 
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I'm curious to know what you mean by a "very good tight end." Do you mean that Michael Palmer will be the replacement for Tony Gonzalez in the offense, and be the guy that creates mismatches and problems for our opponents on 3rd downs and in the redzone?

Do you think Palmer will be as good a tight end as Heath Miller, Todd Heap, and Alge Crumpler? I think those guys are "very good tight ends." Or do you think his upside is closer to that of players like Justin Peelle and Brian Kozlowski?

Justin Peelle isn't something to just sniff your nose at. Since 1995, only 16 tight ends have been drafted that have played in more career games than Justin Peelle (126) has.

Cyril wrote:
Pudge said " their was a reason Palmer didn't get drafted" and I'm saying
"their's a reason he's made this team as a free agent"!!

Of course there is a reason, but it might have just as much if not more to do with the fact that the Falcons were looking for a young developmental tight end that could replace Zinger as the No. 3, as well as the fact that Palmer's main competition got injured in the first week of camp (Colin Peek) than a supposed "special" quality they managed to see in Palmer.
Cyril wrote:
Their's no reason
to debate this further its just I believe Palmer will be everything Pudge says he won't be. Its a prediction.

The reason you don't want to debate this further is because you don't have any strong, logical reasons other than a gut feeling that is probably based off nothing more than the superficial reaction of "OMG, our undrafted rookie TE caught a TD pass! That doesn't happen very often in the NFL!" You'd be right, but that doesn't make him special.

I think Palmer can/will be a good, valuable role player for this team going forward. That could make him a "very good role player," but I'm not sure there is anything special about him.

Cyril wrote:
I'll go with my predictions vs. yours any day of the week.

I wouldn't expect it any other way Cyril. But I'm just waiting for you to tell/explain to me what you see in him that is so "special?" What is it that he does or has done that makes him stand out from your typical NFL tight end?

I'm not gonna lie, I feel like I'm the smarter guy in the room on this particular subject. And if you choose to "drop it" without putting me in my place, then that's all well and good. It's no sweat for my huge ego :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Our Free agent From Clemson is going to be very Special!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:13 am 
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I hardly ever put you in your place even when it would be easy!! You haven't given any facts yourself except
Peelle & you are tight(: Palmer has seen plenty of action for a rookie!!

Pudge you enjoy making things sound complicated and people believe it.....I'd
prefer to break it down to easy, but their have been many issues where you admitted I knew more than you expected.

Its true I will occassionally give a prediction for fun just based on gut instinct, but Roddy White & Palmer I had reason's
to believe. My father went to Clemson so I hear about everybody from that school and take in about one game a year
and Roddy went to high school in Charlston close to where my parents live. (I don't go to games now because my folks can't make it anymore )

Palmer has always been an improver. He's a smart guy so unless he just starts feeling the NFL is taking too much out of his body my feelings are based on his consistent improvement.

Any other rookie you'd about say shouldn't be on the field. Here's a small article taken from the Clemson website,
as you know Clemson doesn't produce many pro's. They don't throw the ball 40 times and Tight ends are not their specialty. I'm talking about Palmer catching about 35-40 catches a year after Tony leaves, that's special for a walk on to me! He'll work very hard for it!!

It will be better than Peelle's average of about 10 a year..... He's already caught 2 more passes as a rookie than
your hero Peelle had when he got hurt. 5 receptions for a free agent rookie tight end, isn't all bad after 9 games.

He's got as many Tds as Douglas and 1 more than Jenkins.........----its a prediction, but come on, what room
are you in if your the smartest (:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UAS1lXYSWY
**************************************************************
Palmer came to Clemson after a decorated career as a two-sport athlete at Parkview High School in Lilburn, GA. During his high school basketball career, he averaged 15 points and 11 rebounds per game in his three-year varsity career and was named to the all-county team as a senior.

On the gridiron, he played for the state championship as a junior and was named all-state as a senior after totaling 21 catches for 385 yards and five touchdowns. After high school, Palmer had scholarship offers for both basketball and football. While his basketball offers were mostly from smaller schools, he received plenty of attention in football. He looked mainly at Clemson and Virginia as his two most likely destinations.

"I liked how Clemson and Virginia both used the tight end, but I picked Clemson because I thought it gave me the best opportunity to play," said #86. "And Clemson is just two hours from home. I also liked the atmosphere at Clemson."

Palmer made an immediate impact when he arrived on campus, as he had five catches for 30 yards as a freshman while playing all 13 games, including three as a starter. He saw more playing time than any other first-year freshman tight end in school history.

He earned his first career start in a nationally-televised Thursday night game at Virginia Tech in 2006. "That might have been the most memorable game of my career, because I could not hear a single snap count the entire game. Virginia Tech is the loudest opposing stadium I have been to."

Palmer had consistent sophomore and junior seasons. He had 13 receptions for 128 yards and a touchdown as a sophomore and 12 catches for 160 yards and three scores in 2008.

The most memorable play prior to 2009 for Palmer came last season at #24 Florida State. With Clemson trailing 13-10, Cullen Harper lofted a pass to Palmer in the endzone that gave the Tigers a 17-13 lead.

Palmer has also seen his production and opportunities increase in the 2009 season. With a young group of wideouts, he has gotten more opportunities and has made the most of them. Palmer has had at least one catch in each of the last six contests, including five catches for 65 yards at Maryland and five receptions for a career-high 74 yards and a touchdown at Miami (FL).

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 Post subject: Re: Our Free agent From Clemson is going to be very Special!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:22 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Our Free agent From Clemson is going to be very Special!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:31 am 
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:lol: @ this forum. It's more post in a thread about a back up tight end than a big win over one of the best teams in the league.

Anyway....I agree with Pudge on Palmer. A good backup but he doesn't have the talent to be a starting TE in this league. He's good enough to be Peele's replacement. That's about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Our Free agent From Clemson is going to be very Special!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:25 am 
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Thanks for the YouTube clip.

And as for your prediction of 35-40 catches in a year after Gonzo's gone, I don't think that's a crazy prediction. If things break his way, I do think that's a possibility. I don't think it would be that soon (as I expect Gonzo will be gone by 2012), but if you said in Year 4 or 5, Palmer would have a 40-catch season, I wouldn't disagree with you.

I mean Peelle practically had a 30-catch season in Miami the year before he came here as an injury fill-in for Randy McMichael.

As for his production so far this year, it hasn't gone unnoticed by me. I think it's largely a byproduct of the fact that the Falcons valued Peelle as a blocker first and foremost, while Palmer isn't on that level. So when Palmer comes into the game now, Mularkey knows his best value at this point is his receiving ability, so he comes into the game more often where he's a viable receiving option. Someone with a Pro Football Focus account could probably better tell us, but I'd bet that there's been closer to a 50/50 split for Palmer in the past 3 weeks as far as snaps he plays when he blocks vs. goes out for passes, while over the first 6 weeks when Peelle was in the game, the split was probably closer to 70/30 blocking vs. receiving. Oh Mularkey, why do you keep gearing your offense to put players in their best positions? :naughty:

But I've noticed in the Bucs game that the Falcons used Palmer quite a bit as a FB in the backfield and H-back. And they were using Jenkins and Finn as TEs quite a bit more than usual.

And while I said Palmer is J.A.G., that isn't as bad as it sounds, because like RB, TE is one of those positions where it's less about ability as it is about opportunity. There are No. 3 RBs on some NFL teams that under the right circumstances can be 1000-yard rushers. And there are backup TEs in this league that under the right circumstances can be 50-catch tight ends. A good example of this is David Thomas, who was a decent No. 2 tight end in New England for 3 years, then got traded to New Orleans because they were missing depth and then had 26 catches in 8 starts last year for the Saints. A good article on him and the opportunity he got last year: http://www.boston.com/sports/football/p ... th_saints/

Another example is our former backup TE Daniel Fells, who impressed here as an undrafted rookie, but then when the Falcons brought in Petrino was let go, landed in St. Louis, who were similarly impressed and has been productive in a backup role the past two years.

Will Palmer get those same opportunities? We'll have to see. Again, I think he can be a valuable role player for this team like Justin Peelle has been the past 2.5 years. But if Gonzo retires this spring, I don't think Palmer's presence on the roster is going to prevent the Falcons from addressing their TE position high in the draft.

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