It is currently Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:42 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:25 pm 
Offline
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:03 pm
Posts: 25930
Location: North Carolina
Schefter says that we gave Robinson $57 million and $25.5 million guaranteed.

That makes Robinson the 2nd highest paid CB in the league.

http://footballoutsiders.com/under-cap/ ... ornerbacks

_________________
"Vincere scis, Hannibal, victoria uti nescis" -- Maharbal, 216 B.C.E.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:04 pm 
Offline
All-Pro
All-Pro
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:07 pm
Posts: 504
That's $9.5M per year, less than what he made last year in Houston. $4.25M of Guarenteed money per year. Not sure how I feel about this one - he really had better be a darn good shutdown corner for that sorta coin.

_________________
~Yulin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:05 pm 
Offline
All-Pro
All-Pro

Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:01 pm
Posts: 952
Yeah, I was thinking it would be more like 23 bonus, 45 total.

Perhaps it is extremely front loaded. If the first 3 years are all guaranteed money, and it's salary after that, we basically got a 4 yr, 8mil per year contract, which I'd be fine with. That's how the Roddy contract worked.

Otherwise, we overpaid, but needed to, at CB. I believe it's ok to overpay occasionally, if the position is of disproportionate value to your team (as CB is to ours currently).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:41 pm 
Offline
2009 Mock Contest Winner
2009 Mock Contest Winner
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:16 am
Posts: 12232
Location: Aschaffenburg, Germany
It is very difficult to determine true value until the player plays a year or so. Also you have to consider the uncapped year and the labor situation and how it will affect contracts. You have to give it to TD though. When he wants a player that he feels can make a significant contribution, he goes out and gets him. We may now be in a position to trade down into the latter part of the first, or the beginning of the second round to get more early picks.

_________________


Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser.
Vince Lombardi





Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:34 pm 
Offline
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:03 pm
Posts: 25930
Location: North Carolina
One would think that a guy would have to make one Pro Bowl in order to make more money than Asante Samuel.

_________________
"Vincere scis, Hannibal, victoria uti nescis" -- Maharbal, 216 B.C.E.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:40 pm 
Offline
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:03 pm
Posts: 25930
Location: North Carolina
Michael Lombardi of National Football Post wrote:
Someone tell me what tape to watch last year where Texans corner Dunta Robinson covered anyone. How can he get over $23 million guaranteed? The Falcons needed a corner, and after signing Robinson, they still need a corner….

_________________
"Vincere scis, Hannibal, victoria uti nescis" -- Maharbal, 216 B.C.E.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:50 pm 
Offline
Superstar
Superstar

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:15 pm
Posts: 4252
At this point, I'm thinking that we overpaid. But perhaps TD knows something that we don't. <shrug>


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:14 pm 
Offline
All-Pro
All-Pro
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:07 pm
Posts: 504
Yeah, I have to admit I still have faith in TD et al, so while I think we overpaid, I don't know that "we still need a cornerback". They must have seen something to pay him that much, and frankly I'll trust our front office's film watching to that of Lombardi.

_________________
~Yulin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:23 pm 
Offline
2009 Mock Contest Winner
2009 Mock Contest Winner
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:16 am
Posts: 12232
Location: Aschaffenburg, Germany
Some stats to consider:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_play ... 31&group=7

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_play ... 31&group=6

I don't think he is as bad as Lombardi thinks he is, nor as good as his new salary projects he will be...somewhere in between for now. However, we must wait and see how he performs. He hasn't played a down yet.

His signing bonus is what got him to come to ATL and listen to TD's offer. We have to play some very good teams again this year, including the world champs twice.There is no cap, so we will have to see where it all plays out. As far as Samuel's contract goes, that is so 2009...just like the contracts in 2012 will make todays contracts look great.

_________________


Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser.
Vince Lombardi





Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:32 pm 
Offline
Superstar
Superstar
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:51 pm
Posts: 4885
Location: New York
Lombardi has been a Falcon hater for years, so screw him. Let's face it, every contract you see out there is being overpaid. Karlos Dansby is now the highest paid linebacker in the NFL and he hasn't even made the Pro Bowl once like Robinson. Let's wait a year, then will just this contract. A year can change anything.

_________________
Image

R.I.P 2013 season


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:50 pm 
Offline
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:03 pm
Posts: 25930
Location: North Carolina
I don't want people to think I'm "down" on the move. I think it was a very important and big step in the right direction. But I tend to agree with Lombardi in that this isn't a problem solver, it's just a step in the right direction. We're more than likely still going to need more help at cornerback, and thus why us using a #1 on Kyle Wilson still would be a smart move in my book.

We needed cornerback help, and we got it, and it allows us to address other needy positions. I think Robinson will be better here than he was in Houston in the past two years, but I'm not psyched about paying "elite corner money" to a guy that hasn't played at such a level in 2.5 seasons.

Not sure if we did exactly what the Ravens did last year with Foxworth, going after the young hometown kid and asking him to cover the best of the best. Hopefully we get a better result than Baltimore.

_________________
"Vincere scis, Hannibal, victoria uti nescis" -- Maharbal, 216 B.C.E.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:11 pm 
Offline
Starter
Starter

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:33 pm
Posts: 55
i am speechless on the amount that is guaranteed. this seems out of the norm. TD is seriously insane or a genius. or both...heh

i am still unsure on the injury status on peria jerry. (probably reading into this too much). could there be something lingering. i wish there was something i could read for assurance on his recovery. maybe the reason we are hiring mercenaries...

i know we are heading in the right direction, but i am not sold on dunta. his attitude spells trouble. and nothing impressive about his speed or recovery. i agree with a few guys here when they are saying a change of scenery could spark him.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:32 pm 
Offline
Superstar
Superstar
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:41 pm
Posts: 2390
Location: Albany NY
Damn we got robbed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wtf! This guy isn't anywhere near the 2nd best corner in the league. Dunta isn't a top 15 corner! He hasn't even been average in two years!



Lets get real guys, many of you are viewing this through homer eyes, We just paid this guy triple what he deserved,,,,,

I think this is Blank getting excited again and not wanting someone to leave town and giving in to whatever crazy demands...

I'm really dissapointed...

Dunta has been below average for over 2 year????
I can't say that enough....

_________________
When life gives you lemons, find some salt and tequila then invite me!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:44 pm 
Offline
Superstar
Superstar

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:15 pm
Posts: 4252
Perhaps it's a scheme thing... Perhaps TD believes that in our scheme, Robinson will be a pro-bowler. <shrug>


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:49 pm 
Offline
Superstar
Superstar

Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 8:57 pm
Posts: 4571
Homer Eyes? Its an uncapped year, no one knows what a new bargaining agreement will bring....?

Everyone wanted a corner back and now we have one.... Perhaps Williams knee was not as bad as thought and that gives us more depth. The only negative for me is this guarantees price hikes again next year....

_________________
"Everything Counts"
Cyril


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:55 pm 
Offline
Superstar
Superstar
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:41 pm
Posts: 2390
Location: Albany NY
:beef: :beef: :beef: :beef: :beef: :beef:

per stats from our new fav stat site Pro football focus
http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_play ... 89&group=7
http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_play ... 31&group=7

Lets compare Dunta to the guy he's supposed to replace, Brent Grimes

Yup Grimes had more tackles, passes defended and interceptions! Read this again

Grimes also had more balls thrown at him, but only 11 more.

Grimes also had a better completion rate against!!! Read that again aswell

That's right, statistically Grimes was a better player last year!!!

Now what would you guys say if we just gave this contract to Grimes?????
You can try and put spin on this however you want, this contract is a mistake :down:

_________________
When life gives you lemons, find some salt and tequila then invite me!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:14 pm 
Offline
All-Pro
All-Pro

Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:01 pm
Posts: 952
Also, saying 2nd highest paid is a bit misleading. It's technically accurate, but there are around 15 to 20 corners bunched in a price range that is 8m/yr +/- 2. You'd probably expect to pay around 8, so if we paid 9.5, it's overpaying, but it's not as if it's double. There was no way we were going to get a number 1 corner for 5mil/yr.

It's just good to keep in mind we're talking about a 15% difference, not a huge one. This all comes from someone who's not a big Dunta fan. I just think a number 1 corner was pretty critical, and as long as we're paying "in the ballpark" of what a number 1 corner makes, fine.

If the average 2nd contract number 1 corner made 4 mil/yr, then this would be ridiculous. But, they don't, they make closer to what he got.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:33 pm 
Offline
Superstar
Superstar
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:41 pm
Posts: 2390
Location: Albany NY
takeitdown wrote:
Also, saying 2nd highest paid is a bit misleading. It's technically accurate, but there are around 15 to 20 corners bunched in a price range that is 8m/yr +/- 2. You'd probably expect to pay around 8, so if we paid 9.5, it's overpaying, but it's not as if it's double. There was no way we were going to get a number 1 corner for 5mil/yr.

It's just good to keep in mind we're talking about a 15% difference, not a huge one. This all comes from someone who's not a big Dunta fan. I just think a number 1 corner was pretty critical, and as long as we're paying "in the ballpark" of what a number 1 corner makes, fine.

If the average 2nd contract number 1 corner made 4 mil/yr, then this would be ridiculous. But, they don't, they make closer to what he got.



This guy hasn't played like a number 1 cornerback in years, we paid for a #1 cornerback and are getting a #2 cornerback

_________________
When life gives you lemons, find some salt and tequila then invite me!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:50 pm 
Offline
All-Pro
All-Pro

Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:01 pm
Posts: 952
DaveWaz wrote:
takeitdown wrote:
Also, saying 2nd highest paid is a bit misleading. It's technically accurate, but there are around 15 to 20 corners bunched in a price range that is 8m/yr +/- 2. You'd probably expect to pay around 8, so if we paid 9.5, it's overpaying, but it's not as if it's double. There was no way we were going to get a number 1 corner for 5mil/yr.

It's just good to keep in mind we're talking about a 15% difference, not a huge one. This all comes from someone who's not a big Dunta fan. I just think a number 1 corner was pretty critical, and as long as we're paying "in the ballpark" of what a number 1 corner makes, fine.

If the average 2nd contract number 1 corner made 4 mil/yr, then this would be ridiculous. But, they don't, they make closer to what he got.



This guy hasn't played like a number 1 cornerback in years, we paid for a #1 cornerback and are getting a #2 cornerback


If that ends up being the case, it'll be a bad deal. That said, a 2nd contract 2 corner gets about 7 mil/yr, so it's still not that far off. Starting corners don't go 5/yr. 7 would have been a bargain, 8 to 8.5 about expected, and 9.5 is high. It's just in the range is all.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:20 am 
Offline
2009 Mock Contest Winner
2009 Mock Contest Winner
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:16 am
Posts: 12232
Location: Aschaffenburg, Germany
It may be a bad deal...it may look like a winner in 2-3 years. Once again with the pending labor situation, no one really knows what a contract will look like in 2-3 years.

The same fans who say we overpaid are the ones who were crying about the lack of a solid CB last year. The same ones who were in duress over TD not signing Foxy, who isn't as good as Robinson. The same fans who would be wailing come November had TD not made a move.

I'm not a huge Dunta fan right now, never have been. But he could come in to our system and shore up a really big need.The money is a non issue. It isn't your money. Big picture people.

_________________


Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser.
Vince Lombardi





Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:32 am 
Offline
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:12 pm
Posts: 6203
Location: Planet Claire
I like Grimes. :mrgreen:

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:37 am 
Offline
Starter
Starter

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:33 pm
Posts: 55
Birdbrain, I agree with looking at this overall "big picture", but seriously, this guy doesnt seem to pass the TD filter, especially regarding his character issue. he's talking about wanting to get paid, but he got fined for 25k on his "pay me Rick" stunt. ok i guess 25k is nothing to this guy, but to have issues brought forward to the media is stupid and childish.

sure i understand he wants a long-term deal, but not playing to your ability and helping your teammate is a sorry and selfish excuse.

i have only seen just 1 year where he played well and that was his rookie season, other than that he hasnt produced the same authority.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:50 am 
Offline
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:03 pm
Posts: 25930
Location: North Carolina
Birdbrain wrote:
I'm not a huge Dunta fan right now, never have been. But he could come in to our system and shore up a really big need.The money is a non issue. It isn't your money. Big picture people.

You just broke Commandment #6. :naughty:

Again, signing Robinson wasn't a bad move. I was just hoping that the Foxworth contract woudl be used as a template instead of the DeAngelo Hall/Chris Gamble contracts signed a year ago. A 15% hike on Foxy's contract would have been about $7.8M/yr. and about $19 million in guaranteed. Instead he got about 55% more in guaranteed money than Foxy.

And the nature of the future CBA really doesn't matter when it comes to guaranteed money. Guaranteed money is guaranteed money because it consists usually of first year salary, initial roster/signing bonuses, and typically "log" bonuses that are likely to be paid to the player in the first 18 months of the deal, at a time when the odds of the team cutting the player are almost nil.

The simple truth is that Robinson's body of work doesn't merit $25.5 million guaranteed. So while I'm glad the Falcons made cornerback a priority, I'm not glad that we paid between $5-7 million more than we probably should have. So it winds up tempering my enthusiasm over the move. It's no different than when we used #1 picks on Baker and Jerry. Now, Baker has almost managed to live up to it (he would once he makes it through a season healthy). Jury is still out on Jerry.

_________________
"Vincere scis, Hannibal, victoria uti nescis" -- Maharbal, 216 B.C.E.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:38 am 
Offline
2009 Mock Contest Winner
2009 Mock Contest Winner
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:16 am
Posts: 12232
Location: Aschaffenburg, Germany
Well the commandments no longer apply in the new environment. This is now a Goodfellas league. TD may not sign another player for big money. But obviously he felt that someone else would grab DR. So he picked up the phone, dialed the agent and quoted a signing bonus that would get the guy on the plane. That is the way it works in the business world Pudge. Especially when all "normal regulations" no longer apply. I think Blank and Co. sat around a table and had the post season talk, and someone said we need a CB. They looked at who was available, did their scouting, and made the decision.

You can't apply commandment #1 without breaking #6, at least in this case. There is a distinct pattern here in how TD handles the free agent process. It is called targeting.

_________________


Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser.
Vince Lombardi





Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fiscal Responsibility, my butt!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:11 am 
Offline
All-Pro
All-Pro

Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:01 pm
Posts: 952
BirdBrain wrote:
It may be a bad deal...it may look like a winner in 2-3 years. Once again with the pending labor situation, no one really knows what a contract will look like in 2-3 years.

The same fans who say we overpaid are the ones who were crying about the lack of a solid CB last year. The same ones who were in duress over TD not signing Foxy, who isn't as good as Robinson. The same fans who would be wailing come November had TD not made a move.

I'm not a huge Dunta fan right now, never have been. But he could come in to our system and shore up a really big need.The money is a non issue. It isn't your money. Big picture people.


I actually agree. My primary point was even if you don't like the signing, realize it wasn't double what we would have been able to get a starting corner. It was maybe 20% more or so.

More importantly, we HAD to make a move for a corner, and it seems we can write off the entire cap this year, so there are no cap ramifications.

In that scenario, the signing has no implication on ability to build for the future. In a normal environment, and without a dire need, I would have pegged his value at 6.5 mil/yr. However, that's irrelevant. It is a dire need, one which if addressed, can make the other 60mil on defense be better spent. It is a weird cap free time. So, the deal amount is only really relevant to Blank, etc. as a business decision, not to fans as a cap issue.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  


cron