It is currently Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:36 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Schaub,do you trade him or keep him ?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:27 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:02 pm
Posts: 6565
Location: Indianapolis IN
I hope I am not sounding redundant but I wanted to know peoples opinions on what you think the falcon's should do with Schaub this off season.Watching the game last night I can't help but think of maybe moving schaub for hoepfully a first rounder that could maybe land us maroney,white, or deangelo williams.The question is are these 3 backs going to be special.You can get running backs in the 3rd,4th rounds that can consistenly get 1000 yards but the excpetional back will make other teams defenses key on them and have to worry alot more.The Denver Broncos seemingly can put almost any back back there and get a 1000 yards.

Now some people may think scout are you crazy schaub is our life insurance.No let me add something.In order to trade schaub hopefully for a 20-25 pick your going to need to sign a free agent QB that can backup vick.One that can move the team and not just be a disaster.Kima,Harrington,brooks there are a few around that may be decent no2 QB's.The next step is to draft another young QB in the 3-5 rounds to groom like we are doing schaub and eventually become a quality backup,sart or trade down the road for future picks like were doing wth schaub hopefully.Also consider howmany games does schaub play a year maybe 3-4 at most.Why not have a drafted kid play full time with that pick.how many games has schaub won in the NFL zero!

The other rerason to trade schaub now and not next year only if we can get good value is if there is a player worth moving up Schaub is going to be needed to trade up and get the player you want.

Example lets say the falcon's covet Michael huff or kiwi and don't think neither will drop to 15th.Arizona,Cleveland,Detroit need a QB and may want to switch there pick (9th,10,11.,12) for the falcon's 15th and schaub.Now I need to mention that team will have to give us there second rounder also.

Summary:
Falcons trade 15 and schaub
receive 9,10,11,12 pick and that teams second rounder

Falcons draft kiwi or huff

Now if the falcon's don't thing huff or kiwi are exceptional and no one else stands out then explore trading down for extra picks.for arguments sake lets say this happens:

Trade down to 22 ...falcons receive 22 and the other teams 3rd rounder......and falcons trade schaub for a another pick in first 20-25 so essentially you get the following

pick 22,pick 20-25 and a third rounder....now how does that sound?

My draft would be then

1.pick 22 tye hill
1 pick 20-25 lendale white
falcons 2nd rounder darryl tapp
3rd rounder ohio state center
falcons third rounder dwayne slay

Thats just an example you could pick and choose the players you want but it would give the falcon's many more options instead of playing it safe with just the 15th and keeping schaub.

_________________
Sometimes running the Mularkey offense makes me feel like I'm in a prison.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:28 am 
Offline
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:03 pm
Posts: 25930
Location: North Carolina
Yes, I would trade Schaub if I thought we could get good value for him. And considering he was a late 3rd round pick, any pick on the first day of the draft would be a good value for him.

I've said it before, but I don't think there really is a strong market for Schaub. He's a good player, but teams in the Top 10 of the draft are probably going to be looking at using that pick on a young QB. Not to mention, there are a number of "tradeable" young QBs out there. A few names are:

Drew Henson, Cowboys
Patrick Ramsey, Redskins
David Garrard, Jaguars
Philip Rivers, Chargers

I think it would be a hard argument to say that Schaub should top that list of young tradeable QBs. Garrard is 5-3 as a career starter, Schaub is technically 0-2 (although I would say it's really 0-3).

Not to mention, a number of teams that are expected to be looking at QBs this off-season, may be looking for more veteran options than an unproven youngster. Those teams would possibly be Arizona, Baltimore, and maybe Miami and Detroit.

Also note that a team that really likes Schaub is probably going to have to be a WCO team that has a void at that position. Of course, a lot is going to depend on which coaches are going to be hired over the next month, but in terms of teams on the lookout for a young QB that already have a WCO implemented, only Arizona and Tennessee show up on the radar. You can probably rule AZ out because they already have Josh McCown, who is a very similar player to Schaub in terms of style and has already proven he can win in Arizona. Tennessee probably isn't going to use a draft pick to get Schaub when they have Volek already, and the young QB they want is probably to be had in the draft (maybe Leinart?).

And with that in mind, basically I really believe that unless Greg Knapp gets hired by another team to be their head coach (it's a better possibility than I think most may think), then there really isn't much of a market for Schaub. There just isn't as much game tape on him as there is with a Ramsey or Garrard, he's too much an unknown quantity. And with how so many teams have been burned by trading for QBs that have limited experience (see Bills with Rob Johnson, Cowboys with Drew Henson, and Dolphins with A.J. Feeley), in my mind, most GMs/coaches are going to be apprehensive about sending a high pick for Schaub.

So yes, back to the point is that I think I would trade Schaub if someone offered something good. But also, I'd have to have already or be on the verge of signing an adequate replacement.

The timeline for moving Schaub likely won't occur until either very early in March or on draft day. And likely by draft day, the possibility of finding a quality veteran #2 is going to be pretty low. Usually by that point in the off-season, there are maybe 1 or 2 name guys left, but you don't want to be forced to sign a player because there is no one else available.

But I also would expect the Falcons to pursue a quality reserve candidate early in free agency. With the possibility of trading Schaub over the next 18 months pretty strong, and with Ty Detmer likely to retire in that time period (if not this year), the team has a void at QB. The smart thing would be to sign a quality veteran QB to a 2 or 3-year contract that can potentially compete with Schaub for the #2 job. If Schaub is not traded this year, you have a solid #3 option that can learn the offense in Year 1, and then step in as the #2 guy in Year 2 or 3. If you manage to trade Schaub this off-season, then you aren't in a rush to go out and find a backup to stop the bleeding, because you already have one.

But honestly, because I called this the "smart thing" it is a move that I don't expect McKay & Co. to make. The honest truth is that I think there are enough decision makers within the organization that want to keep Schaub around not just as a safety blanket when Vick gets hurt, but as one if Vick doesn't make the necessary progression in '06 and/or '07, with the possibility that Schaub replaces Vick as the starter. I know with the way the contract is, that is an extremely low possibility. But with that in mind, I think that will mean that there are those that won't prepare for Schaub's departure from this team, but rather look at ways of locking him up for much longer.

Just my long-winded 2 cents...

_________________
"Vincere scis, Hannibal, victoria uti nescis" -- Maharbal, 216 B.C.E.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:11 pm 
Offline
All-Pro
All-Pro
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:32 pm
Posts: 625
Location: South Jersey
I believe it was AngryJohnny who hit this question dead on.

He said something along the lines of why trade away depth at such an important position as QB. Especially when Vick is such a high risk for an injury.

Did I get it right Angry?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:15 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:11 pm
Posts: 4497
Location: Vancouver, WA
I'm on the "don't deal Schuab" concept. The few starts Schuab has he hasn't really had a fair shake. Especially the New England game where Schuab was spectacular but the defense couldn't lock down the Patriots offense and we lost. That game I blame the defense squarely.

We have had sooooooooooooo many issues with depth in recent years I don't understand why people are so excited to deal some of the best depth on this team. If we did deal Schuab I want a sure fire backup and a lot of names (even though I like say Harrington) have yet to have any real success in the NFL. Schuab has had success IMO and made a clear statement against New England that he is perfect for our offense.

If we get some sort of crazy deal like say our deal for Peerless Price then I say do it. But I don't think we would be getting a first rounder straight up for him.

_________________
Fear the BEARD!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:05 pm 
Offline
All-Pro
All-Pro
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 814
I like the idea of moving Shaub so we can get a higher pick, but at the same time I would only want to do this if we were compensated well and we were able to find a suitable back-up. Harrington is the first person who comes to mind. But short of being able to move up to the top ten and finding a good back-up I say keep him....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:58 am 
Offline
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:03 pm
Posts: 25930
Location: North Carolina
Yeah, I'm in the Harrington camp as well. But I'm not sure he'll be cut from Detroit this year. Especially, considering most indications are that Jeff Garcia is leaving and not looking back. Whoever Detroit's next coach is may have no choice to keep Harrington just so he doesn't have to deal with the possibility of Dan Orlovsky being the default starter.

As I said, I'd deal Schaub if the price was right and we can get a quality backup. But I don't think either are going to happen, becuase as I said Schaub's market value is probably not as high as we would like it to be right now. That definitely could change a year from now when he's an RFA and has one more year of more PT. Also, because it's still iffy if Harrington is cut, I'm not really in love with anybody else. I'd take Garcia, but I doubt he's going to go to a place where he has about a 1% chance of opening the season as the starter (but he may not have a choice).

_________________
"Vincere scis, Hannibal, victoria uti nescis" -- Maharbal, 216 B.C.E.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:12 am 
Offline
All-Pro
All-Pro
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:51 pm
Posts: 869
I'd definitely deal Schaub for picks in this draft if the price was right. With the amount of talent that is going to be available day one of this draft it would be wise to hoard picks for this one. The top 100 of this class may be the strongest ever, and most of the Juniors will declare because the league is discussing reducing the pay for rookies. You can expect just about everyone who is NFL ready to jump ship now. If we ended up with a couple second & third round picks, it would be an ideal situation as it would create a backbone for the future of this team.

_________________
Image
Props to Scar for my sig.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:55 am 
Offline
Cap Guru
Cap Guru
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:28 am
Posts: 2077
Location: Macon, GA
I keep him for one more year...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:14 am 
Offline
All-Pro
All-Pro
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:51 pm
Posts: 869
Capologist wrote:
I keep him for one more year...


You have to look beyond next year. We have a good nucleus here that we need to build a strong young backbone around. We need to move Schaub now, so he doesn't just walk as a RFA, and so we can get more picks.

_________________
Image
Props to Scar for my sig.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:26 pm 
Offline
Cap Guru
Cap Guru
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:28 am
Posts: 2077
Location: Macon, GA
The_Incomparable wrote:
Capologist wrote:
I keep him for one more year...


You have to look beyond next year. We have a good nucleus here that we need to build a strong young backbone around. We need to move Schaub now, so he doesn't just walk as a RFA, and so we can get more picks.


He wouldn't "walk" as an RFA. He'd have the high tender on him which would garner us a 1st round pick if someone signed him. Moreover, I'd look to trade him at that point because teams would rather trade for that type player instead of playing high bidder in free agency wars... :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: You have to think about depth in the draft
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 9:27 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:02 pm
Posts: 6565
Location: Indianapolis IN
Teams should understand that the depth in this draft looks great meaning your 2nd round pick could be a 1st in a weak draft.I don't know what next years draft will be like but if it is weak and the falcon's have a big year they will draft in the low first round.Also if we keep schaub and say he plays well probably end up with a 15-25 pick but will that player be as good as the player in this years draft if we were able to unload schaub for something decent?

I think the majority believe if we could get something decent for schaub trade him only if you sign a free agent veteran that is decent.

_________________
Sometimes running the Mularkey offense makes me feel like I'm in a prison.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:50 pm 
Offline
Superstar
Superstar

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:31 pm
Posts: 3136
vickisthebest wrote:
I believe it was AngryJohnny who hit this question dead on.

He said something along the lines of why trade away depth at such an important position as QB. Especially when Vick is such a high risk for an injury.

Did I get it right Angry?


Yup. Trading Schaub would be a mistake.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Angry-Right as Usual
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:58 pm 
Offline
Starter
Starter

Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:05 pm
Posts: 66
Location: Savannah, Ga
I love me some Schaub-Saw him in the dome against N.E. ( I know it was only one game and they were not 100%). I like knowing we have a guy comfortable with our offense should Vick go down. I say address pressing needs now-don't create a new need by letting Schaub go.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Here is why you trade Schaub
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:13 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:02 pm
Posts: 6565
Location: Indianapolis IN
Here are the potential free agent QBs:You have garcia,kitna will be resigned cincy palmer went down,Rosenfals,Stewart,Wright as possible backups.Now look at the list and say teams will be fighting over these QBs for a starter job.I think not! These are mostly backups.If the falcon's sign one it would solve our problem of backup since everyone seems to worry about not having one if we trade Schaub.Of course Schaub is better but this draft is getting better and better with the recent ohio state player Ashton Youboty declaring.Ther are 4 legit no1 corners (Williams,Cromartie,youboty,Hill and include huff makes it 5).Why keep shaub if next years draft may not be as good only to play him 3-4 games the whole year.You already have your backup in one of the free agents.Were going to lose schaub anyway and you can bet will trade him next year in probably a lesser draft.If you get something good for him which I expect since there isn't much on the market then its a no brainer.


Charlie Batch, Steelers
Jeff Blake, Bears
Drew Brees, Chargers
David Carr, Texans <-- ADDED 10/31/05
Todd Collins, Chiefs
Ty Detmer, Falcons
Jeff Garcia, Lions
Tim Hasselbeck, Giants
Shaun Hill, Vikings
Damon Huard, Chiefs
Jon Kitna, Bengals
Jamie Martin, Rams
Shane Matthews, Bills
Josh McCown, Cardinals
Craig Nall, Packers
Sage Rosenfels, Dolphins
Kordell Stewart, Ravens
Vinny Testaverde, Jets
Marques Tuiasosopo, Raiders
Kurt Warner, Cardinals
Chris Weinke, Panthers
Anthony Wright, Ravens

_________________
Sometimes running the Mularkey offense makes me feel like I'm in a prison.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:09 pm 
Offline
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:03 pm
Posts: 25930
Location: North Carolina
Well, I don't think we're going to get a backup that we are as confident in as we are with Schaub. I think that notion can be thrown out the window right now.

But it's not about who is going to be as good or better than Schaub here in Atlanta, it's about who inspires some semblance of confidence.

There are a lot of names on that list of guys that could be competent backups, but not a lot of guys on that list that I think would work particularly well here. One of the things you like about Schaub is that he has a ton of experience in this type of offense. Besides Detmer, Garcia, and Tuiasosopo, nobody really has a ton of experience in a West Coast system. Other guys are mobile guys like a McCown, Rosenfels, Stewart, Tuiasosopo, or Anthony Wright.

I like Rosenfels because he and Schaub are similar players and I think he could be available since the Dolphins are likely to have some turnover at QB this off-season. Rosenfels is not quite as good as Schaub is, but he's a guy that is on the way up and could develop into a quality #2 and potentially capable short-term #1.

Kitna has proven he can be a successful NFL QB. He's in a similar mold to Vick, in that he lacks great NFL size, but makes up for it. But Kitna is a bit too hot and cold for my tastes, not to mention that he'll be on the lookout for starting positions. Garcia can be lumped into that group, of a guy that would make an excellent backup, but likely won't settle for a job in Atlanta unless he has no other choice.

Jeff Blake has shown he's more than capable #2 over the years. Another name I'd like to toss out is Tony Banks, dependent on the coaching changes, you may see Banks cut by the Texans this off-season. I think he'd work here in Atlanta. Other possible cap cuts that I think would look good in a Falcon uniform: Aaron Brooks, Joey Harrington, and Gus Frerotte.

But again, even with some of these other names hitting the market, I think there's going to be a pretty good market for them to possibly fight for starting jobs in other NFL cities (as a # of teams will want veteran starters to keep the seat warm for their promising young guys), so the Falcons chances of landing one of these guys is pretty low.

Harrington IMO is a good fit because of his experience in the offense, and also the fact that he's unlikely to get many serious offers by other NFL teams (outside Detroit) for a chance to compete with a starting position. Coming to Atlanta works for him because he doesn't have the pressure of being a starter on him anymore (so he can rebuild his confidence) and still should have ample opportunity to log a few starts per year due to durability issues of Vick. So that 2 or 3 years from now, he'll have a Rich Gannon-like opportunity to go on and lead another NFL franchise.

_________________
"Vincere scis, Hannibal, victoria uti nescis" -- Maharbal, 216 B.C.E.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:35 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:11 pm
Posts: 4497
Location: Vancouver, WA
Don't forget that Harrington is a mobile quarterback. He's not an atheletic scrambler like Vick, McNabb, or Culpepper. But he can move as well as a young Brunell or Brooks.

Infact I think when Detroit drafted Harrington they felt like they were getting a Brunell like quarterback. Unfortunately the team and players lost faith in Harrington after two poor seasons which typically you will experience with a young QB.

_________________
Fear the BEARD!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:45 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:11 pm
Posts: 4497
Location: Vancouver, WA
I don't think Harrington would be against becoming a backup for a short term period (2 to 3 years). Players that have fallen from grace really seem to get a great shot at a second chance by becoming a backup then moving back to starter with the same or another team.

Especially if they get a few chances to start games and show the flashes of what they had in college it gets everyone excited again. The recent trend in the NFL is too take someones young backup and make him your starter. It's about about 40/60 success rate with 40% being succesful. But in the history some of the better and more consistent QB's came from backup roles. Harrington was thrown into the fire with average receivers a bad offensive line and until Kevin Jones no runningback.

I think Harrington's development is more a reflection of the Lions from when he came in with them than the Lions today. Had Harrington been drafted to the Lions this year I'd be willing to bet money he'd be putting up far better numbers. But after playing in a pretty bad offense to start Harrington probably has a stigma about poor protection and unreliable targets with no help from anyone else.

_________________
Fear the BEARD!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:21 pm 
Offline
Superstar
Superstar

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:31 pm
Posts: 3136
Quote:
These are mostly backups.If the falcon's sign one it would solve our problem


I'm glad you're not the GM. There is a difference between having a quality back-up and having a warm body in a Falcons uniform. Anyone short of Billy Volek is a downgrade from Schaub, including Harrington.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:12 pm 
Offline
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:15 am
Posts: 24
Location: Boone, NC
I agree, Schaub is a very dependable backup, and he is 1 year younger than Vick, so we dont have to worry about his age. With the type of game that the Falcons need Vick to general, (running, scrambling, NOT staying in the pocket) he is at a high risk to get injured, and I think it would even give Mike more confidence knowing that he has a dependable back up.

_________________
“Mike Vick is one of the most unselfish teammates you'll ever see, because he truly doesn't care about his numbers. As long as I've known him, every time someone says he can't do something or sets up barriers, he leaps over them.”
— Keion Carpenter


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to: