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 Post subject: Chat: The Saints Can Burn In....
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:45 pm 
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http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/29085


Jamie (New Orleans)

What type of impact do you think FB Heath Evans' placement on IR will have on the Saints' offense and how should they attack a very respectable Falcons' defense?
Pat Yasinskas (12:49 PM)

It's obviously going to hurt. Evans did a lot of good things for that offense. But I think they can survive it.

my take: Hopefully, he has the Ovie effect on the Saints.


John (New Orleans)

Pat, what are your thoughts on Jabari Greer's performance so far this season? Seems to me he is on track to having a probowl year.
Pat Yasinskas (12:51 PM)

I think he's having a Pro Bowl season. One of the best pickups around the league in free agency.

my take: Meet Roddy White Monday and then you will get burnt.

Neil (NOLA)

Pat, putting Brees' and Ryan's respective passing games aside, which running game would take right now? The combination of Bush, Thomas and Bell for the Saints or an explosive, yet struggling Turner for the Falcons?
Pat Yasinskas (12:54 PM)

Right now, gotta give the edge to the Saints. Turner's just not doing it like he did last year.

my take: That has to change soon. Turner has to get it going, like really. How much we paying this guy?


Kareem (New Orleans)

Do you think Hardgrove is a decent replacement at DT while Ellis is on the mend?
Pat Yasinskas (1:02 PM)

Yes, Hargrove's done a nice job this year. He's not Ellis, but he's not bad.

my take: Ellis hurt? Falcons have to take advantage of that.

Taylor (Atlanta)

The biggest question mark for the Falcons is their secondary correct? What is with our pass rush?
Pat Yasinskas (1:07 PM)

Abraham's been unusually quiet and they don't blitz very often. Might be time for more blitzes.

my take: For a 4-2 start, there are not many things to be happy about. Abe needs to step it up obviously, but the corners need to hold down there coverages better.


Taylor (Atlanta)

Will your be at the game this Novemember to witness Michael Vick's return to the GA dome? Im positive he will throw from the wildcat this time to Desean Jackson deep
Pat Yasinskas (1:09 PM)

We don't make our schedules that far in advance, but I think it's a pretty safe guess that I'll be there for Vick's return.

my take: Vick will meet Curtis Lofton on a 2 yard loss. Vick won't see the field after that.


Lloyd (Baton Rouge, LA)

Pat, you said Matt Ryan won't have "sophomore slump". I really haven't paid attention to his play, but do you think there is a little bit of a sophomore slump going on?
Pat Yasinskas (1:14 PM)

No, I don't think it's a sophomore slump. Now, he has had some tough moments that I didn't think he'd have, but I think that's mostly because the running game has struggled. Overall, he's been solid.

my take: He has had two poor games, but who said he was supposed to be invincible?


Mike (Charlotte )

Pat why do you continue to bash Julius Peppers? The guy has really turned it on lately and has given great effort yet you mention Abraham who has 3 sack in your Pro Bowl column, but not Peppers who has double that and a lot more tackles. Your shtick is getting old, I understand bashing him when he is bad, but not when he is 2nd in the NFC in sacks.
Pat Yasinskas (1:21 PM)

Like it's really helped the 2-4 Panthers?

my take: Abe has 3.5 sacks just to clarify. Peppers is overrated, he is three years younger than Abe so leave him alone. Abe needs to step it up and he knows it. I suspect a nasty streak out of him Monday.


Mark (Dallas)

I know you don't make predictions, but what do you expect to see Monday Night? Any key things to look for?
Pat Yasinskas (1:45 PM)

Atlanta's CBs. It's all about if they can even contain New Orleans' passing game.

my take: I am scared of this game, but somewhat confident. For some reason, I think the Falcons win this one. I just believe in the never lose 2 straight games streak.


steve (ny)

If this chat is all about the NFC South, why isnt it titled as such? How do you think Thomas and Bell will do against Atlanta's run D this week?
Pat Yasinskas (1:54 PM)

Yes, this is a weekly chat on the NFC South. I'd think Thomas and Bell should fare well against Atlanta's defense.

my take: Hey Pat, have you seen the Falcons' Run defense lately. Well, its pretty good. I just hope Johnson can play.


Brandon (VA)

Your thoughts on Tye Hill this week? does he start?
Pat Yasinskas (1:57 PM)

No, if coaches thought he had anything, Hill already would have been starting.

my take: :doh:


Bill (Laplace, LA)

Pat, were the Cowboys that good, or did Atl have a bad day?
Pat Yasinskas (2:00 PM)

I'm not sold on Cowboys. Have to go with ATL having bad day.

my take: Agreed.

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 Post subject: Re: Chat: The Saints Can Burn In....
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:16 pm 
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Emmitt wrote:
Yes, Hargrove's done a nice job this year. He's not Ellis, but he's not bad.

my take: Ellis hurt? Falcons have to take advantage of that.

From what I heard, Hargrove had 2 sacks last week after he replaced Ellis. He might be a candidate for comeback player of the year if he keeps this up.
Emmitt wrote:
my take: For a 4-2 start, there are not many things to be happy about. Abe needs to step it up obviously, but the corners need to hold down there coverages better.

:lol: That's funny to me, because that's how I felt last year. But now, not so much. There's a lot to be happy about. The Falcons are 4-2 and well on their way to making history and breaking that dreaded streak.
Emmitt wrote:
my take: Abe has 3.5 sacks just to clarify. Peppers is overrated, he is three years younger than Abe so leave him alone. Abe needs to step it up and he knows it. I suspect a nasty streak out of him Monday.

Although Peppers has been better than Abe the past few weeks.
Emmitt wrote:
my take: I am scared of this game, but somewhat confident. For some reason, I think the Falcons win this one. I just believe in the never lose 2 straight games streak.

Glad to see you on board. The key to this game is not the CBs, but whether the Falcons front 4 can dominate the Saints O-line, as they did a year ago in our win over them.
Emmitt wrote:
my take: Hey Pat, have you seen the Falcons' Run defense lately. Well, its pretty good. I just hope Johnson can play.

Emmitt, how quickly you forget. The Saints are always able to run the ball on the Falcons. Hopefully they don't pound it down our throats. Whether Johnson plays or not, the Saints will probably have 100 yards rushing.
Emmitt wrote:
Your thoughts on Tye Hill this week? does he start?
Pat Yasinskas (1:57 PM)

No, if coaches thought he had anything, Hill already would have been starting.

my take: :doh:

Ehh. But people keep forgetting that Foxworth didn't start until Week 8 of last year. There's still time left.

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 Post subject: Re: Chat: The Saints Can Burn In....
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:50 pm 
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I agree. The Falcons pass rush has to be there this Monday. They need to pressure Brees regardless. This game scares me, but a two week stretch of Jason Campbell and Jake Delhomme looks awesome. I wouldn't be surprised if Saints ran for over 100 yards. But it's important to keep the yards per carry low.I just don't want the Saints running it constantly with success. If they get the play action going, then were in for long night. I doubt I am going to get much sleep Monday night, regardless of a win or a loss. Hargrove might be doing well, but he doesn't scare me. I still expect Turner to step it up big time this week. As for Tye Hill, if Grimes and Houston play like they did last week, I will be ranting on wanting Tye Hill to play. As for the dreaded streak, yeah I care about it, but my goal is to make the playoffs. If the Falcons get a winning season, but don't make the playoffs, I still consider this a failed season. This team is too talented to be out of they playoffs.

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 Post subject: Re: Chat: The Saints Can Burn In....
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:26 pm 
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If the Falcons get a winning season, but don't make the playoffs, I still consider this a failed season. This team is too talented to be out of they playoffs.
*******************************************************************
Emmitt, Our best defensive player is very average, and our worst absolutely sucks.....
If we have a winning season with this defense, Coach Smith's picture should go up their with
Van Note and the other greats for finally breaking this gosh awful -no 2 winning season's in a row, 40 year streak.

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 Post subject: Re: Chat: The Saints Can Burn In....
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:43 pm 
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Cyril wrote:
If the Falcons get a winning season, but don't make the playoffs, I still consider this a failed season. This team is too talented to be out of they playoffs.
*******************************************************************
Emmitt, Our best defensive player is very average, and our worst absolutely sucks.....
If we have a winning season with this defense, Coach Smith's picture should go up their with
Van Note and the other greats for finally breaking this gosh awful -no 2 winning season's in a row, 40 year streak.


A bit exaggerative Cyril. John Abraham, who was our best defender last year is average by his standards, but is still probably better than at least two-thirds of the ends in this league.

Jonathan Babineaux isn't very average. He's not Kris Jenkins or Haloti Ngata, but he's one of the better DTs in the league. Definitely more than average.

Curtis Lofton isn't a stellar MLB, but he's an above average guy. Same goes for Mike Peterson.

Erik Coleman is probably just an average safety, but I'll happily take that.

Overall we have an average defense. It definitely won't be the worst defense to be on a playoff team.

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 Post subject: Re: Chat: The Saints Can Burn In....
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:09 am 
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Curtis Lofton and Mike Peterson are playing at a real high level. Lofton just needs more exposure for a playoff berth and Peterson is proving any doubters wrong about losing his skills. Coleman hasn't done much this season. Maybe, Moore can push for a starting spot next year. DeCoud has some upside, I think he really can develop into a solid player. DeCoud is my favorite unknown young player on defense. Nicholas was it, but his impact has been on and off.

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 Post subject: Re: Chat: The Saints Can Burn In....
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:42 am 
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Cyril wrote:
If the Falcons get a winning season, but don't make the playoffs, I still consider this a failed season. This team is too talented to be out of they playoffs.
*******************************************************************
Emmitt, Our best defensive player is very average, and our worst absolutely sucks.....
If we have a winning season with this defense, Coach Smith's picture should go up their with
Van Note and the other greats for finally breaking this gosh awful -no 2 winning season's in a row, 40 year streak.

If the Falcons get a winning season and don't make the playoffs, I'd consider that the best of both worlds.

We are not a superbowl team this year. We have too much youth on defense, and our offensive line is not good enough to do the job against Dallas and New York, not to mention the AFC power houses. Getting that stupid curse behind us is my #1 concern. After we get 9 wins, I won't be sad at all if we don't win again. We need one more good draft and offseason before we have the tools we need to be a consistent, deep playoff team.

That said, I certainly wouldn't complain if we made the playoffs. I don't consider us a superbowl team, but, "That's why they play the games."


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 Post subject: Re: Chat: The Saints Can Burn In....
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:51 pm 
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It definitely won't be the worst defense to be on a playoff team.

***************************************************
I think it would be!! Abe isn't playing better than 2/3s of all defensive ends, he not
playing better than Bierman. Yes it was a slight exaggeration because I like Lofton more than you do
and I think he's doing a great job. Yea I think Babs is slightly better than average but not like
you describe him.

You know I take preseason more seriously than most fans. Our D.couldn't stop the run and the pass,
and by the middle of the season we're still struggling there. We didn't throw deep in preseason either and
that's been passed on. The biggest difference is our line run blocked in preseason and during the season they add
the blitz and the different packages, and have shut our run down. I still think Dahl McClure and Blalock need to be studied
very much in the offseason.

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 Post subject: Re: Chat: The Saints Can Burn In....
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:27 pm 
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RobertAP wrote:
We are not a superbowl team this year.

I'm sure most Cardinals fans thought the same thing 8 weeks into the season last year. :wink:

Cyril wrote:
I think it would be!!

No, I don't think so. The Cardinals were the 28th ranked scoring defense heading into the playoffs last year. The Colts were the 23rd ranked scoring defense in 2006, and were one of the worst run defenses in NFL history that season.

Both teams wound up going to the Super Bowl in those years, with the Colts winning it. I realize our offense isn't nearly as explosive (yet) as either of those two teams offenses were in those years.

But I think people are being a bit too quick to make final judgments about this team when the season is only half way done.

I'd agree with Rob that this doesn't feel like a Super Bowl team yet, but people didn't start getting on "The Cards are for real bandwagon" until Week 10 and 11 of last year. Then they lost 4 of their next 5, all against playoff teams, culminating with a 40-point loss on the road to the Patriots in Week 16. Everyone promptly jumped off the bandwagon and started discussing whether or not an 8-8 division winner really deserved to be in the playoffs. The Cards won their last game against Seattle, finished 9-7 and got hot in January, and were basically a James Harrison pick six away from winning a Super Bowl.

The Colts D was horrible in 2006, then they got Bob Sanders back in January, and the coaching staff lit a fire under these guys, and they basically played lights out in January, started running the ball with Addai and Rhodes, and Peyton Manning wound up being very average by his usual standards in their playoff run, and they have a Lombardi because of it.

All it takes for this team to get hot at the end. Abe might step up his game. Biermann might become the next Patrick Kerney. Jamaal Anderson might make me wrong for the 448th time this year, and become a good DT. Thomas Johnson might start reminding folks of Shane Dronett. The D-line might start playing above their current level, and we might be able to start beating the better O-lines around th eleague. And if that happens, then it frees up Lofton and Peterson to be playmakers, and takes pressure off the secondary. Ryan continues to grow as the season wears on, Turner gets out of his slump, and Roddy pulls a Fitzgerald, and Gonzo really turns it on because he desperately wants to win a playoff game, and that effort becomes contagious to the rest of the offense and team.

Just don't write off the Falcons until the fat lady sings.

Each of the past 4 years a team has gone to the Super Bowl that at the beginning of January or at some point in December, almost nobody gave a chance: Steelers (2005), Colts (2006), Giants (2007), and Cardinals (2008). And it could easily happen again this year, and if we're there, then I think it could easily be us. It's friggin October, so nobody should be making plans for what is going to be happening in February yet. The Panthers did it in 2003. The only "predictable" Super Bowl in the past 6 years was the '04 one between Eagles and Patriots, and the Falcons and Vikings did their best to make it more interesting.

Cyril wrote:
Abe isn't playing better than 2/3s of all defensive ends, he not
playing better than Bierman. Yes it was a slight exaggeration because I like Lofton more than you do
and I think he's doing a great job. Yea I think Babs is slightly better than average but not like
you describe him.

Abe is currently tied with 9 other players for 19th in the NFL among DEs in sacks.

So if you do the math, 19th out of 64 starters would make him better than about 70% of the other starters (roughly two-thirds).

And in a more literal explanation, would mean that at worst, being 28th out of around 120 NFL ends is around the 75-80th percentile (above two-thirds).

Abe isn't playing to his usual standards, but I think even you would take him now over two-thirds of all NFL ends or even just the starters.

As for Babs, just a stat that may interest you...

Only 4 defensive tackles have more tackles for loss than he does (which IMO is more reflective of quality of DT than sacks or tackles): Brodrick Bunkley has 19 tackles, 1 sack, and 4 tackles for loss. Kris Jenkins has 13 tackles, 0 sacks, and 4 tackles for loss. Kyle Williams has 30 tackles, 1 sack, and 4 tackles for loss. And Darnell Dockett has 20 tackles, 1 sack, and 3.5 tackles for loss. Babineaux has 12 tackles, 0.5 sacks, and 3 tackles for loss. Throw in his 1 forced fumble, 2 recoveries, and 1 pass defended, the guy makes plays.

Babs is very underrated because he's not like Jenkins, Haynesworth, or Kevin Williams that is a dominating presence inside. But the guy is quietly productive and consistent from week to week, and IMO it's a toss-up between him and Peterson who has been this defense's best defender this season.

But I have no qualms about saying Babs is easily the best 290-pound DT in the league.

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 Post subject: Re: Chat: The Saints Can Burn In....
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:50 pm 
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Just a quick comment.

Abe will improve some this year now that Jam is in the middle with #71 outside. Cant double team them all. That said, Abe isn't getting any younger and we need to get somebody ready to replace him soon. Don't know if Sid is the answer because I haven't seen enough of him but if he can improve as much as Bierman in his second season then he may be the the answer. Maybe he should move in with Bierman and see how its done.

Falcons, IMHO have a very below average defense in that the secondary is suspect at CB. Need to get somebody "SOLID" at one of those positions.

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 Post subject: Re: Chat: The Saints Can Burn In....
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:03 pm 
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Abe is currently tied with 9 other players for 19th in the NFL among DEs in sacks.
So if you do the math, 19th out of 64 starters would make him better than about 70% of the other starters (roughly two-thirds).
***************************************************************************************
You do the math.... Abe doesn't play that many first and second downs, So he's tied for 28th. For what he's paid
its surprising Bierman is playing just as well. Maybe an extra days rest will help Abe tomorrow. He's played against some average tackles and the coaches have him in pass coverage?

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 Post subject: Re: Chat: The Saints Can Burn In....
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:09 pm 
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Cyril wrote:
Abe is currently tied with 9 other players for 19th in the NFL among DEs in sacks.
So if you do the math, 19th out of 64 starters would make him better than about 70% of the other starters (roughly two-thirds).
***************************************************************************************
You do the math.... Abe doesn't play that many first and second downs, So he's tied for 28th. For what he's paid
its surprising Bierman is playing just as well. Maybe an extra days rest will help Abe tomorrow. He's played against some average tackles and the coaches have him in pass coverage?

The flaw in your reasoning is that many of the players Abe was tied with 3 sacks also aren't full-time players, including Mathias Kiwanuka, Bert Berry, James Hall, Juqua Parker, Biermann, Chris Kelsay, and Osi Umenyiora.

And Abe gets a lot more 1st and 2nd down snaps than you think. I don't have an exact tally, but I'd bet good money if I went back and counted at least thru the first 4 games, he would have led the DEs in 1st and 2nd down snaps.

You can make the argument that Abe is playing like half the man he used to be, and I don't think I would disagree that much. But half of Abe is still better than most DEs in this league.

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