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 Post subject: Pro Bowl players
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:23 pm 
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we sent 6 to the Pro Bowl this year:
Warrick Dunn
DeAngelo Hall
Micheal Vick
Keith Brooking
Rod Coleman
Alge Crumpler

I honestly can't believe Vick made it. I could not be happier and more proud of Warrick, he's finally getting the attention he deserves and wanted so badly. Brooking will make the pro bowl every year as long as he plays most of the games. Coleman deserves it too after his snub last year.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:50 pm 
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Unless Vick has a truely horrid year he will always be a Pro Bowler. Althought Vick's year so far is almost as good as his career year to this point (which was also his first Pro Bowl appearance). Although I'm not sure Vick is a Pro Bowl player but the NFC was pretty average QB-wise overall.

I'm very glad that Dunn finally got recognition for all the work he has put in and how well he has played for Atlanta. Coleman getting love largely for last year's numbers. Crumpler is an annual Pro Bowler for Atlanta.

DeAngelo Hall was a borderline one for me he was hot and cold this year. I don't believe that Brooking really deserved a Pro Bowl selection. He was pretty bad through the first half of the season. Demorrio Williams got completely screwed this year.

Demorrio Williams: 119 Tackles , 3 Sacks, 2 Interceptions

Compared too.....

Brian Urlacher: 114 Tackles, 6 Sacks, 1 Forced Fumble
Nick Barnett: 123 Tackles, 1 Sack, 1 FF, 1 INT, 1 Def. TD
Derrick Brooks: 102 Tackles, 2 Sacks, 1 FF, 1 INT
Jeremiah Trotter: 104 Tackles, 1 Sack, 2 FF, 1 INT

I think DeMo deserved a trip as at least a reserve.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:06 pm 
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Hall was borderline? How so? Who is a much better corner in the NFL? or even the NFC for that matter?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:06 pm 
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Performance wise (and I'll just do the NFC)?

The guy this year that I really think is underrated and gets a snub is Nathan Vasher. He really stepped it up at was a shutdown corner this year. I would give Ronde Barber the nod ahead of DeAngelo Hall as well. Dre' Bly and DeLo are about on the same field right now but I think Bly has an edge due to experience. Then there is Darren Sharper who has been an elite corner for years now. This year was no exception.

You could take any combination of Vasher, Barber, Bly, Sharper, and Hall for the Pro Bowl. I'd mention Gamble but I think he's an assflake. But you can't deny how well he has performed since coming into the NFL.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:14 pm 
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Vasher made the Pro Bowl. Hall definitely has the numbers to back a Pro BOwl bid, but I agree (as I'm sure most are tired of hearing me say), I don't think he played as well as a "normal" Pro Bowl corner plays. I'm not sure I can exactly qualify or quantify that statement, but I don't think Hall played like what I see as a Top 10 corner in the league. If so, then it means that a large number of corners really dropped off this year.

I suspect Demo willbe a 1st or 2nd alternate. In his case, the stats don't lie. He is the best LB on this team, but I think Brooking is still greatly respected by his peers, which is the main reason why he's made 5 straight. It was Brooking's 3rd as a starter and 4th in the league before he made his first Pro Bowl. Within another year or two when Brooking is 30 and Demo has an established career, he'll be in Hawaii.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:13 pm 
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I'm glad Vasher got it. I didn't t hink he would because he isn't a 'name' player.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:07 pm 
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Quote:
If so, then it means that a large number of corners really dropped off this year.


I think that's the bigger issue. The shutdown corner is, for the time being, extinct. I think what DeAngelo did this year -- cut down on big plays, and make some yourself -- is about the most you can expect from an NFL CB in 2005. The days of consistently holding WRs to a catch or two for 25 yards every game are gone.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:02 pm 
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Vick making the probowl this year is a joke. he has hardly earned that honor this year. i'm pulling for him every time he suits up but him making the probowl squad is a total joke.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:05 pm 
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GSUTeke wrote:
Vick making the probowl this year is a joke. he has hardly earned that honor this year. i'm pulling for him every time he suits up but him making the probowl squad is a total joke.


It's not a joke....the Coaches and Players got 2/3's of the voting done for him....apparently 'Professionals' believe he is good enough for the ProBowl.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:09 am 
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dirtybirdnw wrote:
Performance wise (and I'll just do the NFC)?

The guy this year that I really think is underrated and gets a snub is Nathan Vasher. He really stepped it up at was a shutdown corner this year. I would give Ronde Barber the nod ahead of DeAngelo Hall as well. Dre' Bly and DeLo are about on the same field right now but I think Bly has an edge due to experience. Then there is Darren Sharper who has been an elite corner for years now. This year was no exception.

You could take any combination of Vasher, Barber, Bly, Sharper, and Hall for the Pro Bowl. I'd mention Gamble but I think he's an assflake. But you can't deny how well he has performed since coming into the NFL.


Dre Bly has a broken hand so he would probably not even play if he got voted in, plus Hall has been money in nationally televised games. Vasher got voted in, Barber is not as good as Hall he is just in a better team where they have a consistent pass rush & much less is asked of him week in & week out but he made it too, Darren Sharper is a Safety dude, and Gamble hasn't played better than Hall. Galloway did a hell of a lot more against him than he did against Hall. I like you dirty but you don't know what you're talking about on this one.

Pudge, ever notice the great corners usually play on a team with a great pass rush, a la Vasher? It's no surprise to the informed the he made the Pro Bowl considering the pass rush support he has. I have been a corner guy for a very long time and the "best" corners always come from teams with top flight pass rushes. Deltha O'Neal is a perfect example of this. In Denver, where the pass rush was not that great a few years ago, he was not thought highly of. He goes to the Benglas & starts lighting up the league when Lewis starts putting that D together. Notice how Champ had an off year last year & now that the Broncos picked up all those D-linemen he is the elite corner in the league again? That's how it works for corners. As Deion Sanders said, "nobody can cover an NFL WR for 5+ seconds, they're just too good".


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:23 am 
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The thing that stands out with me about DeAngelo, is that I don't believe he's as good as Ray Buchanan during his time here in Atlanta. Hall's abilities now seem to be about on par with that of Ray's when he was seriously on the decline in 2002 and 2003, his final two years here.

Ray, I believe only made the Pro Bowl once during his time in Atlanta, although there were other years when he was very deserving. His problem was that he usually didn't start to hit his stride in the year by Week 6 or 8, and he would usually be excellent in November and December, but by then iit was too late for him to jump ahead of guys like Bailey and Aeneas Williams, or whoever were the top corners then.

I think Hall is going to develop into a fine cornerback. But IMO, Ray Buchanan was about as close as we've seen to a shutdown corner in a Falcons uniform since Deion.

Basically, Ray IMO was a player that I could say that was consistently in the Top 10 of his position. D-lo hasn't hit Ray's level yet. I think he will, but he's not there yet.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:46 pm 
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So many Falcons got slighted during their peak years because the Falcons were never a great club. Probably the least recognized of any Falcon is Jessie Tuggle. The guy was just money and locked down the middle of the field as well as anyone else in the NFL could. He was better then Brooking is today and still never made a Pro Bowl. Amazing how much a decent season does for players and Pro Bowl hopes.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:01 pm 
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dirtybirdnw wrote:
So many Falcons got slighted during their peak years because the Falcons were never a great club. Probably the least recognized of any Falcon is Jessie Tuggle. The guy was just money and locked down the middle of the field as well as anyone else in the NFL could. He was better then Brooking is today and still never made a Pro Bowl. Amazing how much a decent season does for players and Pro Bowl hopes.


Excellent example. Tuggle bridged the gap between Singletary & Lewis as the dominant MLB of the 90's and should have been a Pro Bowler almost every year he had here. They should be making Hartwell watch tape of The Hammer playing in the middle. Anyhow, Hall is much better than some of you are giving him cradit for honestly. He has covered the #1 WR for the other team for 14 weeks now and while he isn't great every game, he has been at least half of those & when he is great he is a shutdown corner of the highest order.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:04 pm 
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yeah Tuggle never got the credit he deserved...his cousin taught at my high school and he would come by all the time so I got to get to know him some....he's a really cool guy and he really deserves more credit than he'll ever get....



the talking heads are all giving Vick and the NFL hell for Vick making the pro bowl....I agree that his stats are not Pro Bowl numbers but he's an icon at this point and as long as we win most of our games he'll be in the pro bowl....

I can't believe DeMo got shafted either, but its a lot like Coleman last year...he'll get his Pro Bowl spot next year I am sure.....

6 people is the second highest total of all NFL teams, I am pretty proud of that...but now we just need to start playing like we have 6 pro bowlers on our team....


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:25 pm 
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One could also argue that it was an average year overall for Quarterbacks in the NFC. Infact I think you could say there aren't any true elite quarterbacks in the NFC. The best performing Quarterbacks this year IMO are P. Manning, Brady, Palmer, Brees, and Hasselbeck. One quarterback from the NFC in the Top 5 Quarterbacks.

I personally voted for Brunell, Hasselbeck, McNabb (who was posting great numbers w/o Owens and injured)... Yes I know crucify me now. But Vick wasn't a Pro Bowler IMO although as we've all stated Vick lives by a different standard and that is total offense and not just passing offense. Even when you add in his rushing numbers Vick is at 2,670 total yards. That is less then the total passing yardage from 16 different quarterbacks in the NFL. Vick's combined passing and rushing TD's is at 19 which is less then 9 other quarterback's total passing touchdowns. That does not qualify for Pro Bowl no matter how you slice it. Sometimes I'm still amazed that we win as much as we do with the fairly poor statiscal output from Vick (no I'm not harping on him).

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:23 pm 
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Brunell was the one who got shafted in the NFC...his numbers were a lot better than most of his peers...I agree though that there wasn't a whole lot to choose from in terms of QB's in the NFC....


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:28 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
...Hall definitely has the numbers to back a Pro BOwl bid, but I agree (as I'm sure most are tired of hearing me say), I don't think he played as well as a "normal" Pro Bowl corner plays. I'm not sure I can exactly qualify or quantify that statement, but I don't think Hall played like what I see as a Top 10 corner in the league. If so, then it means that a large number of corners really dropped off this year...


Three words, Philly Monday night. His play against TO set the tone for this year and that has stuck in everyone's, including Hall's, minds.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 1:40 am 
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Tuggle managed 5 Pro Bowl appearances in his career. He probably deserved more, but considering he played for us, 5 is outstanding.

I think where Tuggle got truly shafted was not the lack of Pro Bowls he went to, but the fact he was not on the All-90s team. That team was a total joke to me. The NFL said they were going to consider the entire decade, and not just 2 or 3 years at the end or beginning.

Tuggle was not on the team, but Levon Kirkland was. Kirkland, 2 Pro Bowls (1996 & 1997) vs. Tuggle's 5 (1992, 1994, 1995, 1997, 1998). Kirkland was a started in the 90s for only 7 years, while Tuggle started all 10. That pisses me off to no end, more than probably any other "snub" the Falcons have received over the years, if you consider Nobis, Van Note, and Humphrey not being the HOF as major snubs.

That diss came directly from the NFL, so that's why I think it is the biggest diss we've seen. At least with the HOF, that is more in the hands of private citizens. But for the league to recognize Levon Kirkland before Jessie Tuggle was not just a slap in the face, but smearing sh!t in it too.

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