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 Post subject: Tebow v Ryan?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:31 am 
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Tebow just killed the #1 defense in the league for 2TD, 1 Rush TD, and 31 yards per pass average! This is an X-Factor, something Ryan just can't do.

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 Post subject: Re: Tebow v Ryan?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:25 am 
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So do you want to trade Ryan for Tebow? I'm sure Denver would love to make that trade.

But you are aware that Tebow's skillset (mainly his ability as a runner) coupled with their scheme (that is designed to enhance that ability) makes teams defend him differently than they would say a "normal" QB like Matt Ryan? I'm assuming that's what you mean by an "X factor" but it seems both examples you used (Vick & Tebow) are/were primarily running threats before they were feared via the pass. So are you suggesting that the Falcons replace Matt Ryan with someone like Josh Johnson, Joe Webb, or Vince Young, or trading up in the draft to get Robert Griffin or Ryan Tannehill, or target Russell Wilson on Day 2?

I'm not trying to be dismissive of your observation, which is a fair one. But what is your point?

You implement a scheme, and then you have to go out and find the players that maximize that scheme. I think this has been the failure of the Falcons under Thomas Dimitroff. Their scheme calls for a dominant and physical running attack coupled with a physical and disruptive defense, yet they have been hit and miss with the acquisition of personnel to implement these schemes. In fact, particularly with their offensive additions it suggests they are trying to implement a scheme that is much different than what they have been running.

So it brings you to the fork in the road: Do you turn left and reset/rebuild to better implement your original scheme or do you turn right and try to modify your scheme to fit the players you've already invested quite a bit in acquiring?

Personally, I think you turn right, but you (among others) seem to suggest left...

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 Post subject: Re: Tebow v Ryan?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:37 am 
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Pudge,
Not sure I have a point here other than frustration with the 'Ice' tag attached with our QB. I also don't like getting humbled in the playoffs. I'm not attaching this to Ryan, but people loved talking about he 'needing a playoff win' and it going to start to become the next elephant in the room like our 'can the Falcons have back to back winning seasons'.
Is Tebow a better QB than Ryan? No. Will he ever be, I doubt it, and I feel the same with Vick, but does that mean that Ryan will win a super bowl and they won't? Those two players seem to have the ability to get on a roll and I haven't seen that from Ryan. He just kind of safely plays the game, takes what the defense gives him, and tries not to make mistakes. That will never put up 316 yards and 3 TDs against the #1 defense in the league.
What did Elway tell Tebow? Pull the trigger! What did Smith tell Ryan... nothing that I heard.
I want to heap the loss on Smith, on the rest of the coaches, and certainly 'The Burner' Turner, but when it all comes down to records only Smith and Ryan have wins and losses attached to their names. In that the buck stops here.
I know Ryan is smart, but I SO want to see him elevate when it matters most and win one that really matters. As bad as the Green Bay loss was, at least we scored. This last defeat was just awful and I can make no more excuses for the team's play and Ryan's part in that.

MF1

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 Post subject: Re: Tebow v Ryan?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:16 pm 
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I think what Smith probably told Matt was "No turnovers" and that was pretty much how they played yesterday. It's an old school mindset and pretty sound, actually, but in today's game which, by the way, is becoming more F'ed up with every year Goodell holds his position, you have to fling it and, as another old school coach used to say about passing, there are three things that can happen and two of them are bad. But Brees and NO overcome INTs all the time. They take big gambles. We don't.

As for drafting another QB, sure, why not? Tom Brady got drafted in the 6th round and I don't think Redman or JPW are irreplaceable. We would have to make alucky shot to get anyone who is going to unseat Matt and it would only come about by way of crisis as when Brady unseated Bledsoe due to injury. Matt's the franchise, the marketing icon, the foreseeable future. Inflexibility is generally a problem in sports, business, life. The Falcons have not transitioned well into the new rules and taken advatage of them, IMO. Is it scheme (chicken) or personnel (egg)?

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 Post subject: Re: Tebow v Ryan?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:56 pm 
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I'm pretty darn certain that it is the scheme. The personnel have shown that they have the talent. When Ryan is asked to take the game on his shoulders, he usually performs quite well. The problem is, we only ask him to do this when the game is on the line, or when the game is so far out of hand, that is our only option.

I will again refer back to Harry Douglas... Harry is a gem. He showed us his potential while Jones was down. But where did Harry go once Jones came back? He disappeared into Mularkey's scheme.

Some people argue that Matt Ryan has the choice of where to throw the ball. I'm going to argue that he is doing what the coaches are telling him to do. Isn't that what you want from your QB? To execute what the coaches ask him to execute? Mularkey's scheme almost exclusively favors the top two receiving options. Matt Ryan will be at his best when he is paired with a coach that schemes for more ball distribution.


Put Tebow in our scheme, or in the Saints scheme, or the Patriots scheme, and he is a total loser. Design an offense that plays to his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses, and you have a QB that wins playoff games. Matt Ryan has shown that he is a pretty darn good QB. Put him in a scheme that plays to his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses, and you will have a QB that wins Superbowls.


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 Post subject: Re: Tebow v Ryan?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:04 pm 
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Alright, MF1, appreciate you clearing that up.

I've just read so much on this board over the past 4 months people saying things like: [INSERT NAME HERE] is better than Ryan...or...We lost because of Ryan...Or Ryan is very overrated...Or I don't think Ryan can win the big games...etc.

And then when you propose the notion that should the Falcons make a QB change, people usually say no. And it seems like a lot of the criticism levied at Ryan goes to that line, but the minute they are asked to cross it by suggesting we move in a different direction at QB, they get scared from it potentially because they don't want to face the backlash.

And it's not to suggest that you shouldn't be allowed to criticize Ryan, but it does seem like a lot of the criticism that surrounds Ryan implies something that few have the balls to openly say.

As for drafting another QB, I'd be all for it, including someone like Russell Wilson who seems to be more of that "X Factor" type you're referring to MF1. Now for me, I'd be drafting him because I'm unhappy with our backup situation, not because I'm fed up with Matt Ryan.

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 Post subject: Re: Tebow v Ryan?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:57 pm 
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